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Xeo
1:03 PM
Yay, refactoring done~ Untangled some class from our "monster class" so we can finally unit test it.
 
"jmd" is an abbreviation of "jemand"?
 
Xeo
yea
 
Ok, danke.
 
oder jemanden, I guess :)
Ohai
 
Xeo
Osehe
 
1:07 PM
Ich sehe sehe.
 
Dat pun
 
user142019
Meh why did I delete Windows.
 
(I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this, but fuck off, I did not know German before)
 
user142019
Have to download it again.
 
@Zoidberg Rhetorics much?
 
user142019
1:08 PM
Tried DreamSpark but it was down. :|
 
@LucDanton Perhaps. I haven't seen the news source yet. Usually, Bruce doesn't highlight sensationalism too much (other than to highlight sensationalism
 
user142019
FOR ONCE I’M TRYING TO BE A GOOD GUY AND NOW THEY DON’T LET ME.
 
user142019
I have to downgrade to Windows in order to run SQL Server for school.
 
user142019
I could use AppHarbor but meh rather have it run locally.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's how I pronounce "sehe" in my head. :(
 
user142019
1:10 PM
lol
 
user142019
say hey
 
@Zoidberg We've got a full MSDN at work. And volume licenses for everything. Yet, the last time I installed windows (2010?) I had to pirate it to get it to work. Pirating f*cking WinXP 64 bit. That's sad
@Zoidberg Doe het zelf
 
user142019
@sehe lol
 
user142019
@sehe hey
 
Danke
 
user142019
1:11 PM
But
 
user142019
if I download something from DreamSpark can I use it for as long as I want? (And can I install it as often and on as many computers as I want?)
 
user142019
Or does it stop working after n years?
 
@Zoidberg I have seen one or two weird things with different licenses, but yes, most of them have endless licenses.
 
user142019
Nice.
 
user142019
Might download VS there.
 
user142019
1:13 PM
Also I’m gonna try Boot Camp for the first time today. Hope it works well. There’s been some issues with Windows 8 related to the volume/brightness overlays which should pop up when you hit those keys, but doesn’t work on Windows 8.
 
user142019
Besides that it should work, though.
 
WinXP 64 bit. That's sad on it's own.
 
> Values of system elements are also shown in Courier, but one point smaller than the name of the system element.
oh thanks! that really helps clear things up
 
I need to cleat my bedroom.
 
user142019
@thecoshman lol
 
user142019
1:15 PM
600 kB/s. :|
 
user142019
Stupid torrent is fucking slow.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'cleat'?
 
@thecoshman Don't ask me.
 
user142019
lol
 
oh fuck you!
 
user142019
1:16 PM
Blame Verdana.
 
user142019
Upgrade to Arial.
 
¬_¬ and if any one asks, I did not accidentally wright 'ruck' first time
 
My office needs a good cleating as well. The depth of pizza crumbs is now exceeded by the depth of paper handkerchiefs and loo roll. There are more viruses in here than on my neighbour's laptop.
 
and why do people keep calling chevrons 'the angle brackets'
 
user142019
Because they don’t know the correct term, obviously.
 
1:17 PM
Dunno, I'll shelve that question.
 
@Zoidberg that's no excuse
 
Have you heard of the brothers Write? You know, the guys that invented the airplane.
 
user142019
@thecoshman You didn’t ask for an excuse.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, who hasn’t.
 
user142019
1:19 PM
@AndreiTita -1 not enough Vim.
 
noooo! seconds too slow
 
@AndreiTita Mandatory hackertyper.com
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wright not Write
 
2 mins ago, by thecoshman
¬_¬ and if any one asks, I did not accidentally wright 'ruck' first time
 
@CatPlusPlus He's mocking me again :(
 
1:19 PM
@Zoidberg See, this is exactly why I needed to post this here.
 
Oh
Carry on then
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol awesome.
 
@Zoidberg Press Alt three times.
 
Xeo
Hmmm
I'd rather have a compiler-built-in mechanism to get such a sequence. :|
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes xD
 
1:20 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can I use that to write ALL my code? It's so easy.
 
@Xeo As long as the spec does not forbid it, I don't see why not.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes A guaranteed built-in, aka a keyword.
 
What's the difference?
 
They don't like to make new keywords
 
user142019
_Keywords problem solved. C++ is ugly anyway.
 
1:22 PM
Hell, I wouldn't either, unconditional keywords are annoying
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Compilation time, I'd wager.
 
user142019
class foo : public bar {
public:
      virtual meh() _Override; // lol
};
 
I see no problem with template <inttype N> struct make_indices_impl { using type = __builtin_make_indices(N); }; template <inttype I> using make_indices = Invoke<make_indices_impl<N>>;.
 
Xeo
Oh well, whatever.
 
user142019
1:24 PM
Hmm.
 
user142019
template<class T, class... Args>
T make_deduced(Args&&... args) {
    return T<Args...>(std::forward<Args>(args)...);
}
 
@ThePhD That's always a good idea
 
user142019
Seems handy.
 
@Zoidberg What.
@CatPlusPlus No, it's not. It's a pointless waste of time if you know it already :P
 
There's always something new
 
Xeo
1:27 PM
@Zoidberg Needs variadic template template parameter.
 
user142019
Oh yeah right. :P
 
user142019
Ah whatever.
 
The fuck is that useful for?
 
Xeo
And I don't think that function buys you anything.
 
Making tuples?
 
user142019
1:28 PM
Confusion, pain and sorrow.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes In the same vein, it'd allow the implementation to use the logN complexity generation, right?
 
Yeah.
As long as it specifies only the interface, I don't really mind.
I think I like typelist<integral_constant<inttype, I>...> more though.
// for convenience
template <inttype... I>
using indices = typelist<integral_constant<inttype, I>...>;
 
Xeo
As long as that's made wieldy through using aliases, yeah.
(is "wieldy" really appropriate, here?)
 
Shoot. VS2012 Update 2 CTP 2 is crashing on me whenever we need to fix a merge conflict.
cough. I knew it :(
@Xeo yeah, it's a bit unwieldy though
 
user142019
How is dealt with merge conflicts in .sln or .csproj files?
 
1:36 PM
Update 2 CTP 2?
 
user142019
I’ve always wondered.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just wondered about that.
Hah, there's a CTP2 it seems.
 
@Zoidberg Those are often of the "pick which line goes first" kind (and often that doesn't really matter, so merging software with knowledge of the format could actually do it itself).
 
user142019
Ah. :P
 
Ell
Hmm. Coherent caches? :S
 
Xeo
1:38 PM
> Description of Visual Studio 2012 Update 2 CTP 3
Wait.
 
WTF is going on.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aliases are like view patterns!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, probably just being overenthusiastic in the numbering labeling squirreling dpt
 
@LucDanton Did I mention aliases are awesome?
 
@Zoidberg No problem really. Though VS makes it harder by having undeterministic ordering/grouping
 
user142019
1:40 PM
Nancy is stupid.
 
user142019
With its automatic IoC crap.
 
Turtles are the way down
Flying like a seagull
 
user142019
@sehe In F# the order of the files in the solution explorer is significant. :L
 
Xeo
Geh, the CTP update (whichever it is) doesn't seem to have the fixed variadic templates ... or they just didn't include it in their list.
 
user142019
You cannot use (as in "include") files that are below the current file. xD
 
1:42 PM
@Zoidberg Well, that's better (because: instant determinism in project file; if it comes out random with some kind of index attribute, you can just make pre-commit filter that sorts them along the index)
@Xeo I reckon it's versioned separately. After, not everybody with a VS update wants to actually run a 'bleeding edge' [sic] unsupported compiler?
 
user142019
16,888 reputation, I have.
 
Poor chap
 
user142019
It’s nice because 16 is dividable by 8, the division even yielding a power of two that is a prime number.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I use WithTags<Tags...>::Tuple<T...> which right now aliases to tagged_tuple<list<Tags...>, std::tuple<T...>>, i.e. a very naive implementation, and if I ever decide to rework that then even the explicit specializations won't need to be changed!
 
I have been contemplating Invoke<Templ, T...> instead of Invoke<Templ<T...>> to reduce nesting of <>s, which I find hard to parse visually (Anyone knows a monospace font with ginormous glyphs for <>?).
 
1:46 PM
@Zoidberg a power of two that is a prime number? right
 
user142019
2^1 = 2 and 2 is a prime number.
 
IIII GOT WHAT YOU MEANT
You just said it so crappy :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You could go the MPL way with that, too.
 
user142019
I got it too.
 
Xeo
Time to install the CTP and see what we get
 
user142019
1:47 PM
I’m gonna play with SQL today.
 
user142019
I haven’t used it in ages.
 
user142019
Though I think I like LINQ more.
 
Ideally, a font that has for less-than signs associated with glyphs like those often used for "true angle brackets" (fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/3008/browsertest.htm) 〈
 
user142019
I like LINQ query expressions. *hides*
 
I can't parse what you just said.
 
1:49 PM
Me?
 
so today was my first ever exposure to what 'ash Wednesday' really involves
 
Ell
Ahh yes ash wedensday
I hate wanting to rub off the ash, it's difficult to suppress the urge
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes are you saying that fonts should have clearly distinct 'less then sign' and 'left chevron'?
 
user142019
What’s the difference between NHibernate or Entity Framework?
 
@Ell oooh, you're one of those people?
@Zoidberg name?
 
user142019
1:51 PM
What a surprise.
 
Ell
@thecoshman I'm not, I'm an atheist, but I had to go to the ash wednesday service all my life :3
At school
 
hi all
 
@Zoidberg I much prefer LINQ-to-SQL over actual SQL.
 
@Ell I see...
 
@Ell You poor sucker. I well remember being forced into Christian services at school.
 
1:52 PM
but yeah, never knew people did this ash on head thing
 
one of the only things that sucked about school but didn't suck about university.
 
@DeadMG explains why you don't like school :P
 
Ell
It doesn't really bother me, I just go along with it
 
@Zoidberg Latter is SQL Server only. NHibernate is SQL engine agnostic as much as possible, and AFAIK supports a not-the-database-first design better.
 
user1357851
 
1:53 PM
@thecoshman There were many, many things I hated about school, and their attempted indoctrination was just one of them
 
user142019
NHibernate looks so cumbersome to use.
 
user142019
XML. :puke:
 
@DeadMG I'd rather not get into this though :P
@Zoidberg XML is not 100% useless. Overused yes, but not useless
 
@Zoidberg There are ways of doing mappings without XML.
 
user1357851
In short DeadMG does not like people, school has too many them
 
1:55 PM
fortunately there are many ways of doing everything without XML
 
user142019
@thecoshman when did I say "useless".
 
@thecoshman cough searches for bookmarked conversation cough
 
sure I would rather use something like json :P
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh nice. :P
 
user1357851
@Zoidberg try Json
 
user142019
1:55 PM
I prefer attributes. Directly in the code is better IMO.
 
Ell
I actually like how xml looks :3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes something along the lines of data only need to be machine readable?
 
Ell
and I like xpath/whatever
 
user142019
XML is verbose. Closing tags could just be </>, really.
 
@thecoshman Are you implying XML is meant for human consumption?
 
user142019
1:56 PM
YAML is good.
 
Jun 22 '11 at 16:32, by Martinho Fernandes
You know, XML may be horrible, but there's worse. <data>9483924882347829478947289478924782478947238472348972389472839742384293487‌​2384723847238472384723984273482748273849</data>.
haha, I remember that.
 
user142019
XML for configuration is terrible.
 
user142019
Just use a programming language already.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it can be.
 
Jun 22 '11 at 16:37, by Martinho Fernandes
They grabbed their old format, and converted it to XML: add a start tag at the beginning and an end tag in the end. Voilá. Instant XML.
 
user1357851
1:57 PM
a lot of places uses xml for configuration
 
@Zoidberg it is easy though :P both to implemente support for and noob cakes to use
 
@thecoshman I'll just sit in the corner and laugh (hint: if that is the goal you are better off with some other format)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh sure
 
Dammit, I did not bookmark the conversation where I gave actual arguments about it.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg yeah I like yaml
but it doesn't have multimaps :( or something xD
I remember trying to do something and then I had to go a long way round.
 
1:59 PM
Map from key to a list of values is equivalent to multimap
 
ah
what Zoidberg said: just use a real programming language like Lua or Python.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus yeah but it's not as nice :3
 
@thecoshman Oh wait, you were in the discussion I am searching for.
 
user1357851
you lot need to seriously start thinking writing smart phone OS in C/C++ based on Ubuntu, then add extra drivers for multi use (car keys, air cond remote control, key card identifications etc)
 
@Ell Wut
 
1:59 PM
sadly, logic like 'this is only an intermediate format that will only ever be read by machines' seems to have failed here
@R.MartinhoFernandes short memory :P
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus it doesn't look as nice :L
 
Xeo
@Ell How would you specify a multimap otherwise? multiple entries to the same key?
 
Ell
wait a second I'm getting myself confused now
 
user1357851
multi hashtable
 
Ell
2:01 PM
This always happens, I always forget the reason I didn't like something
 
user1357851
object **
 
I do that sometimes
 
user142019
Use binary files for configuration.
 
user142019
And let people use a hex editor.
 
2:09 PM
@DeadMG from you that's not so surprising :P
@Zoidberg wtf
 
@DeadMG There are real programming languages in XML!
More than one!
 
XML is terriawful
also, vagina.
 
user142019
Cool, this looks. pfultz2.github.com/Linq
 
user142019
Even though macro.
 
user142019
2:12 PM
xD
 
At least it seems to support SelectMany (i.e. multiple froms).
 
@TonyTheLion Random much?
 
Ju Jun (橘郡), also known as Orange County, China refers to a $60 million, 143-unit housing development situated about one hour north of Beijing, China, consisting entirely of expensive American-style townhouses and tract homes, decorated and furnished with American products. The Chinese developer Zhang Bo built the community to anticipate the 2008 Olympics to be held in Beijing. All 143 units were sold within a month of going on sale, in a phenomenon the Beijing media called "The Orange Storm." Designed by architect Aram Bassenian, who hails from Newport Beach, California in Orange Co...
kek
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes bleh
 
@DeadMG yes from now I'm going to randomly insert the word vagina into places. :)
because I can
and so I killed the room.
 
2:19 PM
tony-room-killer
 
Xeo
So, I installed the "Update 2 CTP 3"... and don't have the CTP compiler (v120_CTP_Nov). :| /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Wut
I am thoroughly confused now.
 
Xeo
Oh, wait, I guess it's a CTP for the Update 2, so nothing interesting going on.
 
MS manages to inject confusion even on update versioning.
 
@Xeo MSVS update?
 
Xeo
2:27 PM
@Abyx Aye
 
it doesn't add anything to VC++ =(
 
Xeo
Some bug fixes in the compiler, I guess.
 
dammit. I want VC++ Update2.
:'(
 
Xeo
I want variadics and using aliases. :|
 
I want a lot of money
 
2:34 PM
@Telkitty Does anyone in the Lounge write drivers, (apart from myself)?
 
variadics are better
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes: It seems old LWS links actually work again.
 
@MartinJames compiler drivers, maybe
 
Compiler drivers? You mean makefiles (~shudder~)?
 
Xeo
@MartinJames The clang frontend is actually called a "driver".
 
2:36 PM
@MartinJames nah, clang.exe, gcc.exe
 
@MartinJames a compiler driver is the wrapper executable which invokes the individual compiler components (frontend, backend, linker etc)
 
apps which parse command line and feed it to compiler libraries
 
Oh. I don't consider the linker as part of the compiler.
 
I certainly do
a compiler without a linker is useless
 
Xeo
Awesome, I can finally get at all my old LWS snippets again
 
2:39 PM
I have three linker-less compilers on ogonek!
 
@DeadMG you can use link.exe or another existing linker
 
also, compiler can compile .exe files, not .obj .
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes wut
 
You can compile libs and link then in later with other stuff.
 
2:40 PM
you're being way too specific.
if you have a compiler, but not a linker, then you are fucked.
 
the fact that you might be able to source a linker from somewhere else is irrelevant to this fact
 
Xeo
@Abyx Eh, a compiler produces .o/obj, nothing more.
 
Compiler produces assembly code
It doesn't emit object files
 
oh my, the cat is right
 
user142019
2:41 PM
Or machine code, but that’s about the same.
 
one of the things I'm going to fix about the Wide compiler is that it produces an object file, instead of an executable directly
 
Assembler emits object files, linker emits the final image
 
there is no significant difference between .obj and .exe formats
 
Xeo
Right-o
// This file was automatically generated on {0}

// Unicode segmentation test data - {1}
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^ lol
 
2:42 PM
Anyway, developing a phone OS is likely to involve stuff like 'real' drivers, hardware test rigs, test equipment, test, system test etc. Most loungers don't seem to get past compilation of command-line apps.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just seems something's missing there.
 
..maybe I'm being a little unfair :(
 
whether they execute on command-line or not is irrelevant to their complexity.
 
Xeo
Oh wait, nvm
 
@Xeo It's a format string to be inflated later.
 
Xeo
2:43 PM
I misread. :3
 
Who wants to write phone OS
 
{0} and {1} are placeholders.
 
user142019
@Xeo periods?
 
We're all waiting with bated breath for your first command-line phone.
 
@MartinJames "developing a phone OS"? are you developing a new OS?
 
2:43 PM
(You only need FORTH interpreter)
 
@MartinJames What?
 
user142019
I want a phone with xmonad, Z shell and Vim.
 
I never said that a command-line phone was feasible.
 
Me? NO! Telkitty..
 
all I am saying is that GUI apps are not intrinsically more complex than CLI apps.
 
2:44 PM
They're definitely more annoying to write.
 
I don't know
CLI can be really fucking annoying
GUI toolkits at least come with some level of Unicode support
 
@DeadMG Well, from the size of 'Hello World' executables, it seems they are.
 
wmain is all Unicode support we need.
 
user142019
Software is best to write if it has no UI.
 
Yes, the size of the code determines complexity
@Abyx Ahahahaha no, it's shit
 
2:46 PM
@MartinJames ... bigger executables aren't necessarily more complex than smaller ones.
 
@Zoidberg Yes! No UI means no users, which means no support!
 
@MartinJames Programmers can be users.
 
and secondly
 
@DeadMG There is a tendency..
 
ask Clang how big their executables are :(
 
user142019
2:46 PM
Not all software needs human users.
 
user142019
Other programs can also be users.
 
Declarative GUI will be simpler than imperative CLI
 
user142019
But that is not referred to as a UI.
 
In general~
 
user142019
Declarative programming is great.
 
2:47 PM
AP, U, who cares, it's an I
 
man
 
user142019
dog
 
my debug Wide prototype is still a whopping 37MB,
 
crab
 
Chocolate Orange
 
Xeo
2:48 PM
I hate these singletons for our DBs... T_T
And they're not even lazy...
 
You're lazy, get rid of them
Oh wait, it's singleton, it's unrefactorable code :v
 
user142019
Yes some people are terrible racists, but there are many others who are very good at it.
 
Oooh, ARMv8's memory model matches C++'s memory model properly.
 
user142019
lol dat pun
 
2:52 PM
@TonyTheLion Want one
 
Xeo
0
Q: Ambiguity with inherited overloaded member functions

Peregring-lkI want to create a kind of "typemap" where I get a type according to a key type. I have a template version, but I show here a non-template version of the type-map implementation only with illustrative purpose: // Keys. struct A {}; struct B {}; struct intget { static int get(A*); } // l.33 str...

Close votes.
Also, AMAGAHD, you can finally search inside the "close as dupe" screen.
 
Breaking news: kid found under rock.
2
 
Xeo
'scuse me for not being active very much on SO lately. :|
 
@Xeo Me neither :)
@DeadMG how appropriate. I mean, you could hardly ship a thing called "Wide" in a binary of 12kB, right
3
 

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