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8:00 PM
Their capacity
 
user142019
I rarely use inheritance hierarchies except for exceptions pun not intended.
 
-1
A: A whole website with slide effect

vectorHave a look here. There seems to be a lot of stuff on the topic. Also, similar question here.

On SO for 3 years, 6 months, and still no idea what an answer is.
 
The whole OO is a business effect
 
I accidentally the whole OO
 
Structured programming allows us this. A this pointer or a this. member selector
struct { int age; string name; } person; is structured
 
8:03 PM
eh
there's nothing wrong with OO, I'm a fan
but you can't get it right by whoring inheritance
 
user142019
I’m an airconditioning.
 
user142019
How can one perform side-effects in Prolog?
 
user142019
Say write to a file.
 
My point would be, where do you need virtual.
 
dunno
 
8:03 PM
write to a file
 
The virtual keyword defines OO
 
user142019
Oh tell told. :|
 
Polymorphism,
 
eh, I kinda disagree.
 
user142019
The only thing I like about Prolog is its syntax.
 
user142019
8:04 PM
And only because it looks like Erlang. xD
 
for me, useful OO is about construction/destruction, RAII, and such things.
virtual hardly comes into it
 
Anything else is old-school
@DeadMG The stl creator has very valid point against OO.
 
user142019
Virtual is useful if you need type-erasure wrapper around something.
 
he does?
 
user142019
Like std::function or boost::detail/* ಠ_ಠ */::any_iterator.
 
8:05 PM
I don't remember him doing anything but raging against it
agree
I used virtual to give a common interface to Clang types and Wide types.
 
@DeadMG In that rage I found useful points
 
feel free to describe them
 
Templating in one word
 
templating what?
 
> (ED: Note that they included "United States." This tells me this was copy pasted. No one writes that.) S.Hanselman
^ bwahahaha. Scott, that tells me you are a Merkin...
 
user142019
8:07 PM
Compile-time polymorphism is the best polymorphism.
 
@CaptainGiraffe macros!
 
@sehe Yes, macros, you get the gold adult award.
 
user142019
 
@Zoidberg I as about to explain it, went to wikipedia to verify first, and gave up. I don't understand P, NP, NPComplete, or NPHard either :(
@DeadMG that's not what OO is IMO
 
@Zoidberg how? XHTML? nevermind, I see
 
8:10 PM
@MooingDuck There are two kinds of problems: Those we can solve and those that we cant
 
@CaptainGiraffe Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. It is real honour for me to receive this award at this time in my career. [...] I'd like to thank my producers, my agent, my parents, my cat and my ulcer treatment medication for all the love and support. It wouldn't have been possible without you all!
 
@CaptainGiraffe That alone actually clarifies bits. unsolvable are NPHard but not NPComplete?
 
Ell
to me OO is data + functions acting on it :3 as in, self contained objects :P but Idk
 
@Ell wikipedia agrees, but I don't
 
@MooingDuck The problems that we describe as a P problem can be solved. I.e. sorting and that kind of simple stuff
 
8:11 PM
NP problems can be solved too
 
@CaptainGiraffe alright, I'm pretty sure you're going the wrong direction here. NP can be solved.
 
@Ell No that is structured programming, i.e. pascal
@MooingDuck No NP is deemed intractable
 
the P problem set is the set of all problems where known polynomial time solutions exist.
 
@CaptainGiraffe traveling salesman is NP, but solvable.
 
the NP problem set is the set of all problems where only non-polynomial time solutions exist.
 
8:12 PM
NP = non-polynomial
 
No a generic salesman is not solvable.
 
NP-Complete is the set of a bunch of problems in NP which have been proven to be effectively equivalent.
 
@CaptainGiraffe sure it is. Brute force it. It's just not polynomial. nor fast.
 
@MooingDuck depends on your definition of "solve". heuristics can get you close to optimal
 
@doug65536 Traveling salesman refers to the optimal path
 
8:14 PM
@MooingDuck I just read H.G Wells The time traveller. It takes to much time.
 
TSP can be exactly solved for hundreds of cities today
 
@CaptainGiraffe well sure, that doesn't mean it's impossible.
 
The scale of something 10^N
 
@doug65536 isn't it non-deterministic polynomial?
 
@LuchianGrigore yes
 
8:15 PM
@CaptainGiraffe probably
 
@LuchianGrigore Polynomial time on a non-deterministic Turing machine
 
@DeadMG Fine go ahead for 130 cities.
 
@DeadMG exactly
 
@DeadMG is "the set..."?
 
Is Istanbul covered?
(I'm applying the Turkey test, am I doing it right?)
 
8:16 PM
@MooingDuck Actually, I think it might be a proper class, rather than a set.
 
N=10000? that should be a small set for any computer
 
@CaptainGiraffe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP_(complexity) "Intuitively, NP is the set of all decision problems for which the instances where the answer is "yes" have efficiently verifiable proofs of the fact that the answer is indeed "yes". More precisely, these proofs have to be verifiable in polynomial time by a deterministic Turing machine."
 
naive Traveling Salesman is O(n!) complexity right?
 
Yes, there has to be a true false to any function mathematically proven
 
LOL
^ all libraries should have that
"Did you check if the .h file is there?" - "yes" - "let me look... lol zomg delete.me is still there"
 
8:19 PM
excellent, wikipedia says Traveling salesman is NP-Hard in one sentence, and NP-Complete in another. While I acknowledge that they aren't exclusive, it's definitely confusing.
 
@MooingDuck It is one for the optimization problem, and the other for the search problem
 
Can I fit more than 56 of these stuffs in my bag? NP complete, How many of these stuffs can I fit in my bag; NP-hard
 
@sehe pft, that's just confusing
@CaptainGiraffe "In 2005, Cook and others computed an optimal tour through a 33,810-city instance given by a microchip layout problem, currently the largest solved TSPLIB instance. "
 
@MooingDuck Yes. It is the (confusing) essence. Google "Dijkstra Algorithm". I've seen it explained nicely on StackExchange
 
@Zoidberg Hey
 
user142019
8:21 PM
What now again.
 
@MooingDuck Neat, still, 33,810 is a ridiculously low number, wouldn't you agree?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I like freeimage. I've worked with it in the past.
 
@CaptainGiraffe you implied it wasn't solvable: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/7709909#7709909. That's what we were disagreeing with. Rereading the transcript shows you clarified it was intractable, which means our interpretation of your original claim was incorrect, and that you didn't actually speak any falsehood.
 
win32 has LoadImage
 
@sehe The same guy that wrote the seminal "Goto considered harmful"
 
8:24 PM
No shit
 
@MooingDuck Yes, we are all agreeing it is not solvable
 
@CaptainGiraffe we are all agreeing it is not quickly solvable.
It can still be solved slowly.
 
user142019
I like goto.
 
Ell
bruteforce can solve anything
 
@MooingDuck Yes, but the cold-death of the universe is approaching quickly
 
Ell
8:25 PM
true story
 
@MooingDuck The thing is, it gets philosophical when it will take several million years. Would still consider that "solvable"?
 
user142019
@Ell except performance problems.
 
@Ell false: halting problem.
@sehe math doesn't care about lifetimes
 
Ell
@MooingDuck damn I thought of that as soon as I posted that message >.<
 
anyone have a crazy calculator that can compute the factorial of 33810 ?
 
user142019
8:26 PM
lol
 
user142019
Mathematics with RAII.
 
@MooingDuck Math doesn't care about solving either. Just the proof will be fine
@doug65536 wolfram: 1.52898784071245464789422466366720651468726678 × 10^138446 (or python)
 
user142019
@doug65536 wait use Haskell.
 
You need to understand about scale
 
@doug65536 Mysticial. Also boost.
 
user142019
8:27 PM
fact n = foldl1 (*) [1..n]
 
user142019
foldl is tail-recursive. :3
 
lol: 1.52898784071245464789422466366720651468726678... × 10^138446
 
1 min ago, by sehe
@doug65536 wolfram: 1.52898784071245464789422466366720651468726678 × 10^138446 (or python)
 
When my computer is low on available RAM, if I open a new chrome tab, the whole screen freezes for a while, but I can still hear my music and pings when you guys type to me :(
 
Now there we go
 
8:28 PM
thanks
 
user142019
Prelude> product [1..33810]
zsh: segmentation fault  ghci
[E139] daknok%
 
user142019
GHCi is wonderful.
 
Ell
I wonder if the free network foundation will ever succeed thefnf.org
 
user142019
@Ell It won’t.
 
I think Mooing is trolling
 
Ell
8:29 PM
@Zoidberg at least try to make interesting conversation :L
 
user142019
@Ell I won’t.
 
user142019
xD
 
G'nite
 
Ell
Why won't it succeed?
 
@Zoidberg neat
 
Ell
8:29 PM
@CaptainGiraffe goodnight
 
user142019
@Ell I don’t even know what it does or is.
 
user142019
They have nothing interesting on front page of website —> doomed to fail.
 
@CaptainGiraffe wait what? Do you still disagree that the TSP is theoretically solvable (even if it takes trillions of years)? Brute force can solve any TSP though it's impracticable in real life.
 
@Zoidberg this:
sehe@desktop:~/custom/fastcoroutine$ time python <<< "import math; print math.factorial(33810)" | wc
      1       1  138448

real	0m1.069s
user	0m1.052s
sys	0m0.008s
 
Ell
@Zoidberg hah oh :L I think they are basically trying to setup a giant mesh network to replace the current internet infrastructure
 
8:32 PM
@CaptainGiraffe And the fault is not using std::sort :v
 
user142019
The fault is using C++.
 
Ell
hahah cooking toast
 
@sehe That's some weird facial hair.
 
user142019
@sehe he looks like you.
 
8:34 PM
Yup. Worth sharing
 
user142019
Also "closed format" lol.
 
@Zoidberg How do you know? (Hint: maybe it is me)
 
user142019
@sehe wild guess/joke.
 
Hey, do you guys use multiple SSH key pairs (one per machine/site or whatever) or just one
 
user142019
 
user142019
8:38 PM
@CatPlusPlus one.
 
user142019
I only use it for GitHub and Atlassian so I don’t really care.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel DONKEY KONG COUNTRY?! :D
 
Ell
I hate transforming recursive stuff to iterative stuff, it makes me so confuseed!
 
user142019
Recursion owns.
 
8:39 PM
@Ell I actually kind of enjoy that - the nice usable (performance) profiles motivate me
 
@Zoidberg The second one, specifically.
 
Ell
I can only ever visualise it by having a stack object replacing the actual call stack
 
@Ell I don't see the difference. If the compiler can optimize it, I'd write recursion, otherwise, oh well, iterate. Meh.
@Ell Well, surprise. Only a subset of examples can replace the stack by a 'running' accumulator
 
Ell
Suprise?
Really? o.O
 
my pattern is to have a stack<T> called todo, then just "do while not empty" it, pushing to it instead of recursing and popping per-iteration. (the obvious approach)
 
Ell
8:42 PM
What can't? and why can't it? if all you're doing is simulating the call stack, how can it happen in a real call stack and not in a simulated one?
@doug65536 yeah that's what I do
 
@Ell Yeah, specifically, only if the 'previous' stack state can be reconstructed without having the full stack saved (or storing equivalent amounts of state elsewhere)
 
@EtiennedeMartel N64 era?
 
@Ell Again, surprise!
 
Ell
@sehe Oh right
 
@Ell Optimizations. If the recursion gets deep, the call stack might run out of space, whereas the heap is mostly patient
 
user142019
8:47 PM
I FINALLY UNDERSTAND APPLICATIVES KUDOS TO daknøk!
 
@Borgleader SNES.
 
hey guys
oh, you know what, I'll ask on SO
 
I can't remember one time when turning recursion into a loop didn't give me a significant performance boost. Plus, if your profiler tools collect full stack traces, recursive functions will make a mess of it
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh I was too young then.
 
user142019
I have a SNES. :3
 
8:49 PM
@Borgleader The game came out in 1995.
 
@CatPlusPlus I use one per local/remote pair.
 
Honestly, get yourself a SNES emulator and play some Donkey Kong Country 2.
It's one of the best platformers ever made.
 
@doug65536 GCC can do it automatically sometimes, so doing it manually in those cases has no benefit
 
user142019
Donkey Kong Country 2 is great.
 
@MooingDuck it has the benefit of portability to a crappy compiler - and huge debuggability benefits - and it's trivial to exit all the way out of a deep recursion efficiently
 
8:50 PM
@doug65536 Also no measurable benefit if things in the loop are slow anyway
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm mostly wondering about Mercurial right now
 
Meanwhile in the wide world of web development: "Hey, Strap-on 2.3 came out." You mean Bootstrap 2.3? "Yes. What did I say?"
 
someone said penis
 
@EtiennedeMartel I was 6 yrs old then.
 
8:52 PM
@Borgleader Same here.
Still played it.
 
I guess I can have bitbucket key in the global config and only bother with changing it when really needed
 
My copy of the game had a French language setting, ha.
 
As always overthinking shit
 
My first console was an N64 and I payed for it because my parents didn't really like the idea of videos games.
 
I disagree. I seriously believe games train you not to panic and improve reaction time significantly
 
8:55 PM
But panicking feels awesome! All that adrenaline!
 
I always panic when something jumps at me
 
@Borgleader Oh, right.
 
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The lure of all horror games.
 
user142019
I read "spanking". xD
 
8:56 PM
My father used to think (and still thinks a bit) that "games are for kids".
 
Even though you're horrified, you've got all these ~enhanced adrenaline feels~
 
@EtiennedeMartel I pretty much payed for all my consoles except for my first gameboy I think.
 
@ThePhD I think morbid fascination is what keeps me playing horror games.
I know I'm gonna get scared, but I still want to see what happens next.
 
I can't play horror games
 
Hm.... I'm wondering if I should stop coding for a second and go out to the Postmortem they're doing for vidya games.
Or if I should just get those extra hours of coding in.
 
Ell
8:57 PM
(1..33810).inject(:*) ...sorry it's late :P
 
Never not slack off
 
@ThePhD Postmortem for what?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Something about narrative and other touchy-feely stuff: bostonpostmortem.org
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, we already knew you were a weakling.
@ThePhD IGDA, eh?
 
Fuck if I know, I just know it's free since they're not charging admission.
 
user142019
8:59 PM
I want real-time Soulseek.
 
But the topic seems terribly boring.
 
user142019
Like, Soulseek with built-in streaming music player.
 
"How to not write a piece of shit storyline."
 
user142019
Or DC++.
 

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