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Xeo
12:28 AM
@DougT default was int afaik
 
Good evening. Infidels!
 
Xeo
@wilhelmtell Rather, good night! (2:30am)
 
morning
 
no no no nonesense. it's 20h30!
Cinder is nice. :) Melikes. :)
I find it funny that they've got a whole framework around opengl working but they couldn't get the main() signature right. :p
 
@DougT 0x has enum classes, if that's what you're looking for; otherwise regular enums are the same as always: the compiler picks whatever backing type it likes
 
12:37 AM
@sbi I won't believe in C++11 until I see its long-form birth certificate.
 
Xeo
@wilhelmtell Isn't the FDIS enough of a birth certificate?
 
I won't believe in C++11 until I can start assuming that everyone has a C++11 compiler
 
do you write code for everyone?
 
12:53 AM
that's true
but people already bitch at me if I post C++0x answers to C++ questions
 
that seems reasonable enough, if they didn't tag or mention 0x
 
0
A: C++: Passing reference of constructing object to constructed member objects?

DeadMGIt is not UB or bad, necessarily, to use this in an initializer list, and your code is perfectly valid with minor modification. class Object { public: Container& c // Constructor Object(Container& c_) : c(c_) { } }; class Container { public: Object A; ...

can't believe the accepted answer was just wrong
 
missing semicolon at "Container& c"
you should declare Container above Object
 
yeah, they pointed that out in some other comment
it's a triviality compared to the fact that the accepted answer is wrong.
 
yup
you might remove "it is not ... bad", because that's stylistic and you want to focus on it not being UB as long as you do the right thing (namely, don't access attributes and methods of the reference)
 
1:04 AM
FWIW, passing this in an initializer list will make some compilers misbehave
I've run into the problem before
I don't recall whether it's UB or - in my comment, I said IIRC, but I am certain that it is not portable
 
well, you are mistaken
what's UB is to access member data or member functions
the actual value of this or the reference *this, they are perfectly legal
if you have a compiler that will not accept it, then it is a fault with the compiler
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak: "portable" is subjective. do we include compilers from 1990? 2000? where do we draw the line
@RonaldLandheerCieslak: what you can say is which compilers it fails on
 
Xeo
@FredNurk There are still people with VS2005 out there...
 
as far as "portable" is concerned: I have to work with a lot of compilers - and that would include VS2005
 
Xeo
1:07 AM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Who is torturing you with that?
 
he didn't mention his compiler
unless he's specific about which compiler he's using, you have to assume one that is Standard-compliant
and if his personal compiler is not compliant, then in effect, that's his problem
 
you don't have to assume anything
 
Xeo
@DeadMG you're right with your comment, edited
 
is there such a thing as a Standard-compliant compiler?
 
but you definitely can't say it's UB if you mean "it fails on compiler X", and if you want to say the latter, you should mention what X is
 
1:08 AM
yes
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak comeau claims 100% compliancy
 
@FredNurk that's one compiler I haven't had the chance of working with, but IIRC it includes export and, IIRC, is the only one to do so(?)
or did all the Edison compilers have export?
 
I think there is another compiler with export
 
(I've never used export)
 
others using the EDG frontend (as comeau does) also support export
 
1:09 AM
they implemented it into the EDG back-end, and all compilers that use it have export
back-end, frontend, whatever
 
depends which way you're facing :)
 
true dat
fourteen hours until my coursework is due in ;p
 
hi all...good morning..!!
 
Xeo
Ahaha, I just found this nice comment by @JamesMcNellis -> "By night Johannes is a helpful, productive member of the Stack Overflow community. By day, he writes code with bool conversion functions." (found here)
2
 
1:27 AM
char ch = 'c';
char* pch = &ch;

int ii = 17;
int* pii= ⅈ

//pch, pii are pointers that hold an address of variable.
//*pch & *pii are dereference operator.
std::cout<<"pch == "<<pch<<std::endl;
std::cout<<"*pch is "<<*pch<<std::endl;
std::cout<"pii== "<<pii<<std::endl;
std::cout<<"*pii== "<<*pii<<std::endl;
error: invalid operands of types 'const char [10]' and 'int*' to binary 'operator<<'|
||=== Build finished: 1 errors, 0 warnings ===|
 
lol
 
any one can tell me error .. i do't understand
ohh i found it]
no sorry i did not understand the error,...
well now its working but really did not understand error..:(
 
@sbi Maybe -- though I suspect with a bit more thought, it's open to a lot of improvement.
@sbi Normally, I'd call it a yellowjacket. "bug" is sufficiently broad it covers everything from coffee beans to insects...
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Comeau was the only one that truly supported export -- e.g., if you ran into a problem with it, their tech support would help you out with it. Some others using the Comeau front-end had (at least some of) the code there to at least parse it and make it work, but using it was neither documented nor supported.
There is some work to supporting export that can't really be done in the front-end. Comeau uses a prelinker that looks at the object files, and re-runs the compiler as needed to produce all the necessary instantiations of exported templates. You just about need something that runs around like time like that to support it though -- the compiler front end isn't enough.
 
Xeo
1:49 AM
I'm lost on Wikipedia again... HELP!
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Going back (a ways) to your question about patent 7,870,412, it looks to me like in this case the synchronization is probably a limiting factor. As it happens, there's a patent with a really easy to remember number (6,000,000) that seems pretty close to prior art, even when we take the "synchronization" part into account. The only question in its case is whether it actually mentions transmitting executable code, or just identifiers to specify executable code.
I'd note that this patent does not cite 6,000,000 as related art.
 
@JerryCoffin thanks
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak As far as being truly 100% standard compliant goes, I can't imagine it. Comeau comes close, but if you look hard enough there are a few places it's not (at least in C++). I'd say the only truly standard conforming compiler is one where the compiler (at least effectively) is the standard (e.g., CPython).
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Been there, got lost, now know most of the tropes :)
 
2:02 AM
@JerryCoffin I agree. I was kinda surprised with the answer "Comeau claims 100% compliance" but then, claiming something doesn't make it true
it's not like we have a reference implementation and the standard says "whenever there's a difference between what's written here and what implementation X does, implementation X prevails"
 
fuck you with your tvtropes link
I need to be PROLOGing and I'm just reading TVtropes instead
 
@DeadMG This works for me: gist.github.com/918793. Unlinkifies all links, which frustrates me to hell, but prevents the "just this one link and then I'm done" issue. (Nevermind the crappy code, I don't do JS.)
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Well, I could probably buy 100%, if we take that as something over 99.5%, and rounding...
 
@JerryCoffin I guess, and claiming 100% would imply that anything that is not standard is definitely a bug. But how do you handle interpretation issues/grey areas?
 
lol
if the Standard does not explicitly define otherwise, then it's acceptable behaviour, I would say
 
2:09 AM
it's not like we can go to a judge and ask them to decide what the standard really means :-)
@DeadMG I feel a portability nightmare coming on..
 
lol
not really, only rely on defined behaviour and you're fine
 
@DeadMG not always true, compilers have problems and portable is different from standard-compliant
 
@DeadMG you mean explicitly defined?
or you mean "so clearly defined that no compiler could possibly get it wrong"?
which reduces the possible portable programs to int main() { return 0; }
 
I think you will find that the Standard goes to great pains to explicitly define very complex behaviour
to the point where no compiler could possibly get it wrong
 
heh
 
2:18 AM
@DeadMG which just leaves the grey areas in the things that should be simple
now that is reassuring!
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Even that's not portable -- 0 returns an implementation defined success value to the environment. Years ago we had an argument on comp.std.c about what programs are "strictly conforming" as the C90 standard defines the term. We eventually agreed that int main() { for(;;); } was probably strictly conforming, but that may be the only possibility.
 
yeah, but that's the C Standard, and this is C++
 
@DeadMG True -- but most of the problems are the same. You can't write to a text file, because there's an implementation defined mapping between what you write and what goes in the file. You can't write to a binary file, because an arbitrary number of NULs can be appended to what you write. You can't do anything that depends on reading from a text file (also ID mapping). You can't even open a file (strings that specify files you can open are implementation defined). You can't return a value
to the environment (also implementation defined).
 
yeah, but so what?
you could perform complex meta-programming at compile-time and ray-tracing at run-time that's all perfectly defined
 
so, you can't do anything to the environment..
 
2:25 AM
1 hour ago, by Fred Nurk
@RonaldLandheerCieslak: "portable" is subjective. do we include compilers from 1990? 2000? where do we draw the line
@JerryCoffin what definition of portable were you using?
 
I guess you'd expect observable behavior to be the same on all platforms
 
@DeadMG Not really. There are implementation limits that aren't portable, that may prevent your code from compiling portably, even if it never violates any rule in the standard. There are also runtime limits that are pretty much the same.
 
there are defined limits that are portable, from memory
 
@FredNurk That the observable behavior not depend on any implementation defined, unspecified, or undefined behavior.
 
@DeadMG there are guaranteed minimums/maximums for some implementation defined constants, IIRC
 
2:27 AM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak all? 8-bit embedded DSPs all the way up to crays? should we include interpreted environments
@JerryCoffin observable from which vantage point?
 
@DeadMG Not really. To be considered conforming, an implementation must be able to translate one program that meets each of a set number of limits -- but not necessarily any more than one specific program.
 
@FredNurk IIRC observable behavior is defined in the standard
I'm pretty sure Ch isn't standard compliant, though
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak the text file mapping is, afaik, only observable from outside a conforming program
 
@FredNurk What we were discussing was what programs met the definition of strictly conforming: "A strictly conforming program shall use only those features of the language and library specified in this International Standard.2) It shall not produce output dependent on any unspecified, undefined, or implementation-defined behavior, [ ... ]"
 
@JerryCoffin then I got waylaid by your use of "portable"
 
2:31 AM
@FredNurk who was talking about text file mapping?
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak Jerry: "there's an implementation defined mapping between what you write and what goes in the file"
 
@FredNurk In C99, they've tightened the requirements so you can read back in what you wrote out -- but under C89/90, even that wasn't required (in fact, I believe I provided most of the impetus for that change).
 
@JerryCoffin I don't see how int main() { return 0; } wouldn't be strictly conforming under that definition; it could give different results on different platforms, but I don't see how a program that doesn't depend on platform specifics could detect that (which is why I asked "observable from which vantage point")
@JerryCoffin ah, you did say C90. mostly I think C99 and try to forget the former
 
@FredNurk Do we agree that what it returns to the environment is "output"? The definition of exit says: "If the value of status is zero or EXIT_SUCCESS, an implementation-defined form of the status successful termination is returned."
That's clearly stated to be implementation defined, so unless you decide it's not output...
 
it's implementation-defined, but why would causing implementation-defined behavior make a program non-conformant?
this is why I thought "portable" was being discussed; under the most extreme view, you could say returning 0 isn't portable between platforms X and Y because it gives a different resultant exit code (let's say you see this through calling system() in another program), but non-portable != non-conforming
system() is itself implementation-defined, of course
 
2:41 AM
if your point is non-portable != non-conforming, there's no-one here I can see arguing with that
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak I'm still interested why int main() { return 0; } wouldn't be strictly conforming
 
because of what Jerry said here
it produces output dependent on implementation-defined behavior
 
thanks, I missed that
 
fuck
I want to sing loudly
but it's 4am here
 
@DeadMG go ahead, I don't think any of us will mind :-)
or take a stroll in a park where no-one will hear you sing
just watch out for the guy saying no-one will hear you scream
 
2:47 AM
lol
oh, I can sing loudly.
 
@JerryCoffin: I don't accept that the quoted clause applies to exit codes
 
well
every main must return a value, even if it's implicitly zero
therefore, if that definition of strict conformance applies to main exit codes, then no program can ever be strictly conforming
 
@DeadMG that doesn't mean the implementation-defined exit code (which is only observable from a platform-specific POV) is "output" under C99 §4p5 (which is the same clause quoted)
 
@DeadMG there's nothing against a standard saying no program can conform
 
the fuck's the point of a Standard if you can't conform to it?
 
2:51 AM
meaningful programs aren't necessarily conformant
arguably, they necessarily aren't
 
an example of observable behavior depending on unspecified implementation details that would make a program conforming but not strictly conforming would be int inc(int *p) { return ++*p; } int main() { int x = 42; printf("%d %d\n", inc(&x), inc(&x)); return 0; }
@DeadMG this is actually about "strictly conforming" vs "conforming", which I also didn't see at first
 
I wonder: is Jerry's example of a strictly conforming program (int main() { for (;;) {} }) still strictly conforming in C++0x?
 
3:27 AM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak 0x is allowed to assume loops terminate, with some caveats on that, so if int main() { return 0; } isn't strictly conforming in 0x, then that won't be either
I don't see the distinction between conforming and strictly conforming in n3290
 
@FredNurk that's what I thought
 
§1.4p2 in particular
 
I don't see it there either. Jerry's quote came from C though. I haven't taken a look at the C++ standard in a long time
at least, before a few minutes ago, when I looked at n3290... which isn't the standard either, so I guess my assertion holds.
depending on the definition of long
 
lol
 
anyways, I gotta go - g'night
 
3:37 AM
night
 
@RonaldLandheerCieslak shorter than long long
 
4:17 AM
@FredNurk C++ has never defined the term "strictly conforming" -- in fact, it says rather specifically that all its requirements are intended to apply to implementations, not programs. Where it looks like they apply to programs, it's just because it's an easier way of giving the rules for an implementation.
 
The problem with the definition of "conforming" in the C standard is that it arguably applies to almost anything -- any text that can be "accepted" by at least one implementation, is a conforming program. After some discussion with some committee members, they agreed that (for example) a program that contained #pragma FORTRAN followed by pure Fortran source code would qualify as "conforming" C, if some compiler (even just one on earth) accepted that and also accepted real C source code.
 
@JerryCoffin that's part of my big gripe with relying on C and C++ standards as the absolute truth
 
@JerryCoffin: Would you please stop referring to the C standard? It's really kind of irrelevant for the C++ programmers, since we have a completely separate Standard
 
4:23 AM
@DeadMG We have a separate standard, but it refers to the C standard in quite a few places.
 
well, unless the C++ Standard explicitly refers to the C Standard in the exact place under discussion
 
@FredNurk Definitely not completely wrong. I suppose there would have been more diplomatic terms that "lying" that might have helped resolve rather than exacerbate the situation. I'm hardly one to talk though...
 
"lying" was stronger than I intended, but I also find his attempt to change the story (that he was talking about "def f(self=None, x, y)" instead of the actual question) to be offensive
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin And it actually tries hard to conform to the C one in many points
 
@Xeo: you can flag a question when a user accidentally creates multiple accounts; I did on the one you linked with the reason: "User needs accounts merged. See poster of the linked duplicate question: stackoverflow.com/q/5887571";
 
Xeo
4:34 AM
@FredNurk I see, thanks
 
that trailing semicolon isn't in the text I sent; nor in the edit history
everyone else sees it?
 
Xeo
yes, no trolling from you?
 
trolling?
 
Xeo
nevermind that
it's slang-verb for someone doing something stupid/wrong on purpose
 
I always understood it as doing something to evoke a reaction for the sake of evoking a reaction, rather than based on the merits of the "something" itself
I can troll and say "singletons are stupid", or I could have reasoning behind it and not be trolling
(singletons, as in the dedicated class pattern, are stupid, btw)
Singletons should be avoided, they often make non-trivial programs clunky and difficult to maintain. First read ddj.com/cpp/184401625 and ibm.com/developerworks/library/co-single.html to ensure using a singleton is absolutely, positively necessary.
 
Xeo
4:39 AM
Hm. Mother's Day on sunday, and I got no idea what to do.
 
no idea? do something for your mother! :P </groan>
 
lol
 
 
2 hours later…
6:29 AM
LOL, I just updated an answer and got the following message:
> You haven't voted on questions in a while; questions need votes, too!
 
lol
I've never seen that and I very rarely vote on question
 
is there a way to see how many of your votes are on questions?
 
6:47 AM
dunno
mine only gives total up/down votes
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow lol
Ahahahaha
21
Q: Undo an "rm -rf ~" command?

ChrisI had a folder I didn't want named '~', so from the command line I typed rm -rf ~ and accidentally deleted my home folder (since ~ resolved to /home/username). Is there any way back or do I basically need to recreate the account from scratch?

 
Als
@sbi: Hey Good morning GOM..Good to see you back here..I think I heard some rumors yesterday about you leaving? :O
 
sbi
@Als Nono, that was just @Johannes who apparently didn't even read the first sentence of my blog entry about The Great Embuggerance (TM).
 
sbi
Anyway, got the day off with the kids. I need to make breakfast...
 
Als
7:02 AM
@sbi: Ahh i see..thats good
 
Hm, everytime I insert a link with []() here, my initial thought is "cool, a lambda!"
 
Als
-19
Q: Using Classes in C++

SsRide360I have a class int main(int argc, char** argv) in a file VideoProcessor.cpp I also have another main in a file VPMain.cpp. VideoProcessor.cpp does not have a constructor, but I want to call the main (as seen above) to run from VPMain.cpp How would I call the main from VideoProcessor.cpp? I trie...

That got 14k views in 15 hrs!!
 
Xeo
@Als That amazed me too 3k views after just 1 hour or so
I believe it's because of the massive downvotes
 
Als
@Xeo: Someone made a fortune for saying they are not classes :P
 
Xeo
7:08 AM
@FredNurk Comment linking doesn't work for me :(
@Als Tell that the guy with the accepted answer, reversal badge :P
 
@Xeo it does when they're not below the viewing threshold... otherwise you need rchern.github.com/StackExchangeScripts
 
Xeo
@FredNurk I see! So you were referring to your comment after all
 
Als
@Xeo: Darn...Where was I..when peeps were plundering the rep bonnza
lol
 
Xeo
Somehow this iammilind guy seems like a new There is nothing we can do to me...
 
Als
@Xeo: Why is that?
 
Xeo
7:13 AM
@Als He once downvoted an answer by @James because he thought his answer was cooler, while it was a total fail. :)
Also, he likes to argue on stuff that he doesn't agree on
 
@Xeo doesn't look like it to me
after my incredibly exhaustive and thorough 2 minute inspection
 
Als
@Xeo: I have seen There is nothin...co-existing with iammilind existing in same time dimension i think
so agree with @FredNurk
 
Xeo
Interesting. You can't use the derived template argument in a CRTP base class for type_traits checking like is_base_of
 
it's not a complete type
you can put it inside each method, however
inside the body, not in the return type or parameter types (i.e. no enable_if)
 
@Als that is nuts
 
Xeo
7:30 AM
Ahaha, the votes on that question.
+20
-38
@FredN, how do you actually get a link to a comment?
 
@Xeo the easiest way is the js userscripts I linked; they turn the timestamp into a link
the ID for the comment is always there, SO itself just doesn't give you the link
 
7:50 AM
@FredNurk do you ever sleep?
 
8:00 AM
is there a decent way to know what overload of a ctor is being called?
 
@TonyTheTiger Sure, you just have to learn the overload resolution rules by heart.
3
 
@FredOverflow and besides doing that?
 
Can you give us an example? It helps if you keep the number of overloads small, of course.
 
see the problem I'm having is that I have a func that does some work and all it's data is currently being passed to the ctor, now I need another piece of data, in a very specific case, so I need to be able to check in my func which ctor was called, so I can use the right pieces of data
 
Ah, so it's not just for debugging purposes? Because then you could simply have set a breakpoint.
 
8:05 AM
no, its at runtime
while executing my pgrm
@FredOverflow true, but I wouldn't ask here if I only needed that
I need to decide at runtime
 
In that case, you have to manually log which constructor was called. Can you modify the class with the constructors?
 
Then simply introduce another field that remembers which constructor was called.
 
maybe I can just set a bool inside the ctor and then check that bool in my func
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow oooh, I got that "you need to vote on questions too!" message too just now :D
 
8:08 AM
struct Foo
{
    int which_constructor;
    Foo(char x) { which_constructor = 0; }
    Foo(long x) { which_constructor = 1; }
    // ...
};
 
@FredOverflow yea, that's what I was thinking
 
@TonyTheTiger Oh, there are only two constructors? Sure, use a bool then.
 
@FredOverflow yea only two
 
Although it's very likely that there is an even better solution that I could suggest if I knew more about the problem.
 
not n where is is fairly large
 
8:10 AM
Maybe these two constructors of a single class should actually be single constructors of two classes or something.
Or templates. That's always a good answer in C++.
 
well, which ctor is called is statically constant in C++, so I feel rather immediately that introducing a run-time variable for this purpose is a waste
 
@FredOverflow so it's actually a struct which overloads the operator[), wherein I do some processing. The data I need is passed through the ctor, and now I need another piece of data, to do the same things in the operator(), just with that particular piece of data, instead of the first ctor's piece of data.
not sure if that even makes sense
 
@DeadMG I have a similar feeling.
@TonyTheTiger That's just kind of a repitition of what you wrote before. Can you show us actua code?
 
@FredOverflow just a sec working on it
 
@TonyTheTiger all the time, but sleep(0) returns control quickly
 
8:18 AM
@FredOverflow ok here is an example: ideone.com/LxzAj
@FredNurk hahahah
 
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, my instinct would tell me to make two classes with a single constructor in each class. Are those Query objects short-lived, or do you have to store them in a container somewhere?
In other words, show us some client code.
 
@FredOverflow I just execute it and then the results are stored in a vector, only the results is what I need
that struct is merely there to execute that particular query, it serves no other function
 
Then make two classes.
 
and use a function which selects the right class (to return) based on its parameters
 
@FredNurk Good thinking there, Fred!
 
8:23 AM
yeah, it doesn't actually seem like you've got a lot of common logic there
 
@DeadMG most of it, besides that one variable
that primarykey_ variable is the only difference between the two
 
the two classes can share a common base for common functionality
 
well, the fundamental problem that you have is that you have duplicate data
you need to get a primary key and put it in one place
either initialize primarykey_ from request_ in the appropriate constructor, or the other way around
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Morning..*cheerful roar(it's friday!) @All: Hey all
 
@Als my friday is anything but cheerful
I had the worst thursday evening I've had in a long time
 
8:27 AM
my stomach's had a nasty reaction to something
but I have no idea what that something was
 
Als
oh ok..
 
damn thing keeps going off
 
?@DeadMG my bad thursday eve?
 
Als
Darn i just got downvoted...
1
Q: Is hash_map part of the STL?

JakeQuick question...Is hash_map part of the STL?

:( and i dont agree to it
 
you got downvoted on worthless pedantics
 
8:28 AM
@DeadMG that describes very well some people
 
Als
@DeadMG: That is so wrong...
 
I know
 
Als
Do people do it for the thrill of it or to make them stand apart
 
I'm pretty sure Jake did not have sgi's STL in mind when he asked the question...
But Alexandre is right, hash_map is part of sgi's STL.
 
Als
@FredOverflow: Well Jake didn't ask if it is part of sgi's STL as you already mentioned.
 
8:31 AM
But sgi's STL is the only STL there is :) It's just that many people seem to think that there is such a thing as the STL in the C++ standard, but there isn't.
Usually, people mean "the template part of the C++ standard library" when they say "STL", and I have no problem with that.
 
@Als the question revolves around what "STL" means, your answer isn't very clear or helpful because it just says "no"; I didn't downvote, but I can see why they did
 
Als
Thats just pedantics.... :(
 
If you search the FDIS for "STL" or "standard template", you won't find any hits.
 
@FredOverflow there's very little value is separating the template parts of the stdlib from the non-template parts; I see no reason to use "STL" to refer to any part of the stdlib, even if we could get a universally-agreed meaning
2
 
@Als Well, would do you mean when you speak of the STL?
 
Als
8:34 AM
@FredNurk: I am not going to cry over a downvote but I just dodn't agree
 
@FredNurk When I say "STL", I usually mean the container/iterator/algorithm part of the C++ standard library.
Because who cares about some ancient pre-standard library?
 
@FredOverflow why do you exclude strings and streams?
 
But still, my view is technically wrong.
@FredNurk Because I don't find them particularly interesting ;-)
 
most people that use STL for (parts of) the stdlib include strings and streams, that I see
 
Were they part of sgi's STL?
 
8:36 AM
so you're introducing miscommunication if you don't; to play devil's advocate
 
Als
@FredOverflow: I would agree to that definition of STL, container/iterator/algorithm part of C++ standard libray
 
@FredNurk I'm sorry, what do you mean?
 
@FredOverflow: what about std::pair or std::allocator?
 
STL in ambiguous, meaning different things to different people and the context doesn't help in deducing which meaning is intended. So it is a term to avoid.
Another term to avoid is method which depending on the person using it means "member function", "non static member function" "virtual member function" or even "function".
 
@FredOverflow: you also excluded <functional>
and std::complex
 
8:39 AM
@FredNurk I don't know, and to be honest, I don't really care. I just live with the fact that most people mean something else when they say "STL".
 
Als
I think i should delete my answer because everybody now wants to add a comment on it just for the heck of it
 
@Als I try to avoid answering questions like that for just that reason
 
lol, this again
"STL" is not ambiguous; it is mis-used.
 
"Trying really hard not to get drawn into useless pedantic masturbation in comments..." is currently in my SO bio ;)
 
If people didn't consistently stubbornly refuse to use it properly, it's very clear what STL vs C++ Standard Library [from C++n] actually mean.
It baffles me that people still insist on using it improperly such that these arguments keep coming up.
The solution is so simple!
 
Als
8:43 AM
@FredNurk: If i could vote that comment i would put a bounty of 100 on that lol
 
sbi
@AProgrammer That's wrong. See this question: stackoverflow.com/q/5266386/140719. Maybe we should make that an FAQ?
 
@TomalakGeretkal You are welcome to think that your definition is the only one which should be used (I tend to think that for mine), fact is other meanings are also used.
 
@Tomalak: It comes up because the SGI STL is copyright 1994
nobody uses the SGI STL anymore
 
sbi
Oops. I think I picked the wrong question.
 
they support Microsoft VC 5.0 and later
etc
 
sbi
8:45 AM
Mhmm. I'm pretty sure there used to be one addressing exactly the meaning of "STL" vs. std lib.
 
star wars again
 
sbi
Ah, here it is.
3
Q: What is the difference between the standard library and the standard template library?

kgradHello, I keep seeing reference to both the C++ standard Library and the C++ Standard Template Library (STL). What is the difference between them? Wiki mentions that they share some headers but that's about it. Thanks

 
@sbi this one looks better, and is older: stackoverflow.com/questions/4064010/…
you found it as I did :)
 
Already FAQ'ified. Bravo, you guys are quick!
 
Good, I was wondering...
To be clear, IMO STL should be used only for the SGI library. But common usage doesn't agree with me so I use SGI STL when I mean the SGI library and avoid the use of unqualified STL.
 
8:48 AM
@AProgrammer What is the "IMO STL"? I have never heard of it.
3
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: :) and i thought it would be a quiet friday
 
@Als I guess you thought wrong then :P
 
@Als What does "quiet friday" celebrates? :-)
 
@AProgrammer quietness of course :-)
 
sbi
8:49 AM
@AProgrammer Commonly, the term "STL" is used to refer to those part of the standard library that stem from the original STL. It's also erroneously used to refer to the whole of the standard lib.
 
vote to close as dupe? already flagged it for merging: stackoverflow.com/questions/5266386/…
 
@FredNurk it has different info though in the answers
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger, @FredNurk: I think i better drag myself to work, later guys
 
@TonyTheTiger merging answers fixes that
 
sbi
@FredNurk That's wrong!
 
Als
8:50 AM
oh ya and just for brevity someone do star the fina outcome of this pedantic debate
 
@TonyTheTiger and closing doesn't delete answers, of course
@sbi what is?
 
@Als it's pedantic, that's the result
 
@sgi and also to standardized extensions of the original STL and sometimes everything which is templated but the the part of the SL which comes from C, and... Just ambiguous. Sometimes the ambiguity doesn't make a difference, sometimes it does.
 
@FredNurk oh I didn't know
 
@AProgrammer Thanks, shall do.
 
sbi
8:57 AM
@FredNurk What I referred to. Don't close/merge this question. It's different from the other one. Please read my comments.
 

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