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5:05 PM
@JerryCoffin feels like exactly what I'm trying to say
 
@TonyTheTiger it's in a few.
 
we serve them, rather than them serving (and moderating a true community commons can still be serving) us
 
@JohannesSchaublitb LOL
 
If you switch over N cases, then how many comparisons are required?
 
5:09 PM
I will be completely OFF TOPIC, but I am desperate: I have to make a big decision.
I have to decide between:
- a PHD, good salary, top doctorate school in Europe, 4 years
- a job at ARM holdings in Cambridge, as Senior Software Engineer, good salary
I am 25 years old.
 
@LorenzoDalCol I'd say go for the doctorate. Education lasts longer than a particular job.
 
Als
@LorenzoDalCol: I would say depends on your inclination to pursue studies or get started with working
 
@StackedCrooked That depends -- the compiler is free to optimize as it sees fit. In quite a few cases, it'll depend on how large N happens to be, and on the density of the cases involved. If you cover (for example) every value of N within a given range, there's a pretty good chance that it'll create a jump table to deal with all the values in that range.
@JohannesSchaublitb Very nice -- excellent light.
 
@JerryCoffin @Als Thank you. Let's say I am worried about being on academic studies for the next 4 years. But at the same time I feel like if I dont do the PhD now I would never do it in the future. At the same time, in my opinion ARM is a top company, and still growing... so it would be a good choice to enter it now.
This is because I am so unsure... :(
 
@JerryCoffin I see.
 
5:15 PM
@LorenzoDalCol The good point is that neither is really a bad choice, so you honestly won't go terribly wrong either way.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, I guess the same. Do you think that a PhD would be a plus even for a company? I'm talking about career.
 
Als
@LorenzoDalCol: If I were you, I would go for the doctorate for i know myself too well that if i won't do it now i won't do it ever.
 
@Als I feel the same... Everyone says me: "you have the entire life to work!"
 
@Lorenzo: The most important thing is
if you get a doctorate, you get to tell everyone all your life to call you doctor, and you get to put it on your credit card and stuff
 
Als
@LorenzoDalCol: but as @JerryCoffin said both are good options..You have to decide between two goods so choose what will make you happy.
 
5:20 PM
@LorenzoDalCol This is a good time for the old "life's a journey" chestnut. You really cannot say where you'll be in 5 years irrespective of the choice you make. Go for the one you think you'll find most satisfying/challenging/interesting.
 
Als
@LorenzoDalCol: But if you do get your doctorate, don't come back here i heard someone bashing doctors in here recently lol :P was it you @DeadMG
 
@LorenzoDalCol Yes, as a rule. At the very worst, it does no harm, and at best it can be quite useful.
 
Medical doctors, not doctorates in general :P
 
@JerryCoffin Hmm... I thought it was an owl for the longest time.
 
@DeadMG Lol. :P
@JerryCoffin Thank you for your opinion.
Is someone of you a doctor? ;)
 
5:22 PM
@Xaade Oh my. No, it's a yellow jacket. It had apparently just hatched and couldn't fly yet, so I got a few decent pictures before it could (at which point it, thankfully, left without trying to sting me).
 
Als
@All: Need to run guys @LorenzoDalCol: All the best, wish you suxxess :)
 
@Als Thank you!
 
@LorenzoDalCol I'm not, but my brother has a PhD in Comp Sci, and my sister has a PhD in statistics...
 
@JerryCoffin And may I ask you where is yout bro working now?
 
@LorenzoDalCol : Imo I've learned more from personal and work experience than I ever did in school. But it depends upon your field. If you need to learn an extensive set of skills (for example, you want to program in a field that requires knowledge of robotics, or mechanical engineering), then a doctorate would be beneficial. But if you want to work in a career where most of the knowledge would be learned on the job (a company that designs a web product that requires exclusive knowledge)
 
5:25 PM
@LorenzoDalCol Google.
 
@JerryCoffin :) :) :) Ok. I will go for the doctorate... ;)
 
then you might be better off starting your career.
 
@LorenzoDalCol He does seem to like it quite a lot...
 
There are a handful of software companies I know that completely shun advanced education.
 
@Xaade The ones you don't want to work for probably :)
 
5:27 PM
I don't know.
I tend to be biased against contemporary education.
I find a lot of fault with it.
Kinda like this metaphor.
If you go to China, you'll find a lot of artists that can render the most beautiful scenery with great accuracy. However, if you look around a lot, you'll discover that most of them are simply copying previous works over and over.
 
@Xaade I understand your feeling. I am guessing if an experience of 4 years at ARM would be more valuable than a "piece of paper". But I know that a lot of companies are hiring doctors.
 
Yeah, but that's not a sign of how successful the education is, as much as it is a sign that businesses can't accurately evaluate the expertise of programmers.
 
Anyway, the manager which I had the interview with, at ARM, has a PhD. It would be my boss.
 
My wife is studying the CPA with some difficulty, and can't understand why current CPAs simply cannot or will not do their job.
@Lorenzo At your next interview, ask him whether he values his work experience or his degree more. That'll give you a better grasp of which choice would be better for you.
Best to ask people in the area of expertise you wish to work in. My guess is with ARM, you might want to look at a PhD.
Because ARM would fit into that extensive set of skills category.
 
well, I guess the question is
would you rather have your job, or your boss's job?
 
5:39 PM
If they're offering the job already, then maybe they don't value PhD for the position he's applying for.
Without work experience, a PhD alone may not get him his boss's job. Then he'd be stuck.
Overqualified
 
personally, I wouldn't go for a PhD if you're not looking for a research job
and I wouldn't count on being well paid just for having a PhD
 
My best advice then, would be to take the job, study for PhD at the same time..... and postpone getting married.
That's the problem.... if you're looking at the technical level job.... and not interested in lab work, then you'd have a problem getting a technical job with a PhD, being overqualified.
 
my advice would be: get married, take the job, and postpone the PhD
 
@Ronald -OR- that.
Gotta count marriage in the life happiness meter.
 
experience is a much better teacher than the library is
 
5:43 PM
Postpone the PhD? Do you think it would be possible to do it at 40 yo?
 
so your PhD will be better - and be done faster - with the experience anyways..
@LorenzoDalCol sure it is
why wouldn't it be?
 
@Ronald So you'd probably agree with me that there's a major problem with contemporary education, and the laziness of companies to hire the highest degree instead of the technically able.
 
mmm, do professors assume 40 yo students?
 
For PhD.... YES
 
once your children will have grown up (assuming you have any) and you've put some money aside so you can slow down your day job (or just quit), you'll have plenty of time to do a PhD
and you'll know a lot more than you do now
@LorenzoDalCol why wouldn't they?
they do here anyways
I know a 50 year-old who did her thesis and became a professor
and came from a completely different field
 
5:45 PM
The only school I'd expect for people to be stunned at a 40 yo student, would be a upper class business school, where bratty kids buy into their fortunes... and feel entitled to an upper management position. Then they go and screw up the company.
 
@Xaade you know what MBA stands for, right?
Mediocre But Arrogant
:-)
 
Like that article they did on Yale students that were whining and worried about not being able to find a management job when they graduate.... everyone sounded like a bunch of spoiled brats.....
OMG... what will I do.... this is the first time I've heard of students graduating without cushy jobs.
It was funny watching them interview the lady from the careers dept. that looked like she was sweating crazy....
At that point.... I lost all respect for education. Because they never bothered to teach a sense of humility.
 
I am sure I will not try to do a PhD, if I am developing a career into companies.
@Xaade My education would not be business stuff.... but hard problem solving in the Computer Science field.
 
@Lorenzo Seriously... figure out what career you want. Go and ask people in the positions they work, which has been better for their career.
 
@Xaade You are right. The big problem is that in my country people with a doctorate are not considered by companies, and the only doctor I can talk with, are only professors.
 
5:57 PM
oh man
this guy posts a question asking why his program is so slow
then it turns out that he returns a billion vectors redundantly and didn't turn optimizations on
 
@DeadMG who's that?
 
0
A: Quick Sort vs Selection Sort (Java vs C++)

DeadMGYour C++ code is fail. Firstly, the Standard already provides a quicksort- std::sort. Secondly, you picked a std::vector- for a statically sized array? Thirdly, ftime and the rest are not valid profiling timers. Thirdly, you keep returning values from quicksort, even though the function takes a r...

 
6:12 PM
pretty crazy
 
6:26 PM
@DeadMG Not to mention (as I pointed out in my answer) that at least in the C++ version, when he did his selection sort, he was doing in on data that was already sorted. Too bad he didn't use insertion sort -- it'd show up as the fastest thing around (even without the other problems).
 
haha
didn't notice that
 
6:54 PM
Just to make sure I got move semantics and rvalue references: if the implementation of the move constructor is equal to the copy constructor, there's no benefit in having one, right?
The benefits only come when there is work you can avoid doing in the move, but you need to do on the copy (like allocating and filling memory).
 
hmm, I wouldn't rule out that there's some case where it might semantically make a difference as well. Like, you could probably define a function that works on movable objects only, not ones that are merely copyable
but from a general performacne point of view, you're right
 
sbi
4 hours ago, by Fred Nurk
@TomalakGeretkal I also found him (http://twitter.com/rdpate) and a bunch of other SO people on twitter
@FredNurk Who are you on Twitter?
4 hours ago, by Xeo
I never thought I'd get 10 upvotes for this answer ...
@Xeo What, and now you're disapointed because you have 14?
3 hours ago, by Tony The Tiger
I'm just starting to get the idea of the mere beginnings of TMP
@TonyTheTiger I still have some material for an article about templates, spanning from the simplest to TMP. Just today I was contemplating turning it into another FAQ entry similar to the operator overloading one. The problem is I'm not half as good with templates as I am with operator overloading.
2 hours ago, by Johannes Schaub - litb
did @sbi actually stopped using SO?
@JohannesSchaublitb No, but I'm giving about 10% as many answers as I used to. I've also done almost nothing for the FAQ, and have mostly stayed away from meta.
2 hours ago, by Fred Nurk
@sbi: speaking of which, SO (and SE) is clearly a commercial venture where the management determines the goal (e.g. the slogan "make the internet a better place") and thus the content, not a community commons where freedom of speech means anything (as usenet is, even though it's topical)
@FredNurk I know that very well. (I wrote it in my blog, after all.) It's just that this is not what it says on the package.
2 hours ago, by Jerry Coffin
But maybe I just want to convince you to use it as your avatar, so I'll no longer be the only one using a picture of an bug... :-)
@JerryCoffin Do you really call this a "bug"? I mean, Americans call just about every insect a "bug", but, hey, yours is so obvioulsy a bee/wasp...
1 hour ago, by Fred Nurk
we serve them, rather than them serving (and moderating a true community commons can still be serving) us
@JohannesSchaublitb Oh boy. Everybody (well, almost everybody) tried to politely look the other way when @Tony brought up sex, and now you come and post that picture...
That was quite a lot. Sorry, but I have been offline most of the day, and had to catch up with you guys.
 
Xeo
Freak.
Atleast nobody interrupted you this time around, even though you notified quite some people.
 
@sbi The Meta is evil.
3
 
@sbi You're better then me, so that's good enough :)
@sbi Where did I bring up Sex?
@Xaade it does have some funny posts about Jon Skeet
 
Xeo
7:08 PM
Okay, I know I'm totally crazy and probably gonna get lynched but... anyone knows a good 2D graphics library for Java?
 
@Xeo What are the requirements?
Can't you just use Java2D?
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow Mmm.. it's for a friend, they are nearing the end of their IT lessons and they want to make a simple game now
 
@TonyTheTiger Referencing RvB.... no one watches that.... :(
 
The only lib I know is LWJGL which is based on OpenGL and worked pretty well for me, but your Java friends are probably better off with something else.
 
@Xaade RvB?
 
Xeo
7:12 PM
@FredOverflow I personally don't know anything about Java, but I'll suggest it to them. Thanks.
 
@sbi The same could be said when you go to a Kroger store. You're essentially giving away information about where you shop, how you shop, etc. If Kroger is split into two organizations mentally (a data collections company, and the store). Then it's easy to see that we are a product to the Kroger company. We're being sold back to Kroger so that the information can be used to sell better to us.
 
2
Q: im writing a small (2D) java game - what java library should i use?

APTI want to write a small java game (snake like game) but im not sure what graphics library to use. Ive heard about SWT and Swing and I have a little bit of experience with both but I dont know what is best for a simple 2D game... what do you recommend? thanks :)

 
You could argue the same for political polls, facebook, the census, etc.
In a sense, the consumer becoming the product is the most efficient way for the economy to run.
It's no wonder android phones are collecting location data.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where array-to-pointer-decay leaves a distinct smell
4
 
It's more efficient to bring the customer to the product than the other way around.
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: What the hell Fred?
 
Xeo
7:16 PM
Kekeke
@FredOverflow It's useful though
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Erm. Here?
 
Array to pointer decay.... no definition
 
int array[100]; int* p = array; compiles.
 
Ah....
I figured it out like a second before you posted.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH..... I use that all the time
 
Which IDEs you preffer for developing C, C++, C# and Java on *NIX systems?
 
sbi
7:24 PM
@Robik Is there anything (but Eclipse) doing all of them?
 
while (nOffset < nCount)
{
LPSTRUCT_s lpstStruct = (LPSTRUCT_s)(&abBlob[nOffset]);
Value += lpstStruct->Value;
nOffset += sizeof(STRUCT_s);
}
 
That's what i am asking for. I've heard that Eclipse is not best choise, do you know any alternatives?
 
It has to be one single IDE which supports all 4 languages?
 
sbi
@jalf "C, C++, C# and Java."
 
@TonyTheTiger Search for RoosterTeeth.
 
7:27 PM
@sbi I know what he said. I'm asking what he meant ;)
 
@jalf But WhY?
I understand.... but why?
 
sbi
@jalf This is the C++ room, home of the pedants. We take everything literally.
 
There is no such thing as an everything literal in C++!
 
#define YesThereIs "everything"
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Yeah. There isn't a BlueMonday literal either. So?
 
7:29 PM
enum COLORDAYS { BlueMonday; RedTuesday };
 
so, I just realized I have icecream in the freezer
that takes precedence over C++ talk
 
Xeo
@jalf Damn you!
 
@jalf class freezer { icecream mMyIcecream };
 
sbi
@jalf Me, too. Oh boy, now you've done it.
 
7:31 PM
@sbi AOL
 
sbi
@Xaade :)
afk
 
Why can't I reply to myself..... blarg
There's no such number as 2.
 
@Xaade You can't?
@MartinhoFernandes You can!
 
Reply to this message is interestingly missing in my own dropdown.
 
@Xaade Have you never gone to the bathroom for a few minutes? ;-)
 
7:33 PM
@FredOverflow Typically I find minutes on a clock.... but if you find them in the bathroom.... feel free to take them.
 
sbi
@Xaade We can.
@sbi Why can't you?
 
@Xaade Of course I could use my permalink, but why eliminate the option if it doesn't prevent the feature.
It only slows me down.
 
@sbi I would never dare to mention sex
 
sbi
@Xaade Because this is Jeff's realm, and he's a true paranoid. You have only so many votes per day, you can't upvote more than one comment per second, if you post more than a specific number of messages in a certain time, the chat will slow you down by making you wait... not having a link to reply to yourself seems banal compared to the rest of this.
 
@sbi yea a bit too much control if you ask me
 
7:39 PM
banal is a funny word
 
sbi
4 hours ago, by Tony The Tiger
@FredNurk I hope not sexual ones :P
 
@jalf it's b-anal really
 
something wrong with sexual control?
 
@sbi lulz :P
 
@sbi But it's lazy control.... like password protecting your computer and putting the password on a sticky on your monitor.
 
7:39 PM
There is also "ianal".
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Sorry, I picked the wrong guy.
 
@sbi how can you mistake a tiger like me for a some other pons... (no offence anyone)
 
@Xaade But I can reply to myself, and There's nothing Jeff can do!
 
sbi
@Xaade Yeah, and you can make a bot that upvotes comments once every second, or spends 20 stars per day.
@Xaade 'course he can. Ask tina.
 
@sbi :(
@sbi Wait.... only 20 stars per day?
20 chat stars.
 
sbi
7:44 PM
@Xaade Yep. You didn't think you had unlimited stars, did you?
 
What is this.... Elementary school. Sorry Billy, you've used your 20 stars for a muffin, you can't get a snack during recess.
 
unless you say please
 
sbi
@jalf Finished you ice cream?
 
Was it creamy?
 
it was delicious
 
7:46 PM
@jalf That's why you didn't say anything.... your mouth was full!
 
blackcurrant flavour
I recommend it :D
 
sbi
Mine was bourbon vanilla with lots of eggnog plus chocolate and caramel sauces. Yummy.
 
that sounds good too :D
 
@sbi I read chocolate and caramel sources.... then immediately thought.... sbi has been programming too long.
@sbi : I christen thee..... Christmas hangover.
 
sbi
@Xaade There's some words I just can't type, "sauce" being one of them. Yes, I wrote "sources" first, then corrected to "souces" before I hit the send button, and only then corrected.
@Xaade Huh?
 
7:50 PM
@sbi Vanilla bourbon, and eggnog.
One a liquor..... other a traditional Christmas drink (where I'm from).
 
I think you'd have to eat quiet a lot of ice cream to get a hangover, bourbon or no :p
 
@jalf I'd be able to..... can't hold liquor.... can eat lots of ice cream.
 
sbi
8:19 PM
I now plan to make a career of keeping my mouth shut. #rah
IOW, time to go to bed. :)
 
@sbi good night :)
 
Interesting facts derived from the malware article someone linked earlier - browsing from a VM, or just using XP are both valid ways to stay malware free as modern malware kits specifically avoid installing themselves or their payloads on VMs, or XP systems.
 
hey guys i was wondering if any of you could help me i am writing a batch script and i have the code and everything but i need it to make a folder for the month like May, June, July and all so i can have the rest of my team click on it and the video files will auto sort themselves.
 
stackoverflow.com
 
@Alex stackoverflow.com
 
8:33 PM
0
Q: Batch script that seperates that creates folder by month

Alex@ECHO OFF SETLOCAL EnableDelayedExpansion REM Set variables SET SOURCE=C:\My WebEx Recordings SET DEST=\\XXXRD12\c$\WebExVideoArchive SET 7ZIP=C:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe REM Compress local files with 7zip ECHO --------------------------------------------------------- ECHO BEGINNING VIDEO ...

 
ok
then there is absolutely no need to come spamming about a batch script in the C++ chat room
 
i did i put it on there but i havent heard anything from anyone
 
then be patient
 
i am not spamming i am asking if that can be done
i dont even know if it can be done
but thanks for your help
figured i would ask
 
@Alex making folders with batch scripts has to be possible
@DeadMG felt like working yet?
 
8:38 PM
mkdir is your friend
 
no
 
lol
so what did you do instead?
 
played games
did a tiny bit of work
 
oh ok
@DeadMG which games?
 
starcraft 2
 
8:39 PM
:P
I don't really play games... but I'm sure it was fun
 
yeah
 
9:00 PM
silence
 
we are the silence
 
9:18 PM
silence is undefined behaviour
 
9:30 PM
nub
 
is that an english word?
 
no
 
I pwn teh silence..... YAR YAR YAR
 
seems like it is an english word
like a knob
 
Your knob is a nub.
We use it today to mean more like a remainder.
The pencil was used down to a nub.
The branch was cut down to a nub.
I lost my first finger, so this one I call "the nub".
 
9:47 PM
class X
{
    int x;
    int y;
public:
    int* f() { return &x;}
}
Can I safely do f()[1] and get y?
 
no
 
why would you want to?
I thought that member variables aren't necessarily stored in memory in the order they are declared.
 
there could be implementation-specific padding or alignment issues going in to the exact memory layout
 
@Xaade I have a vector (the geometry kind, not the STL kind) class and I need the ability to convert it to a const float*.
 
You could if you did this.
union
{
int[2];
struct
{
int x;
int y;
};
};
 
9:51 PM
I was wondering if I could do it without copies.
 
That way you force your ints into an array.
but I think you need to use pragma to force everything to be byte addressed.
 
@Xaade #pragma pack? (I'm on MSVC, btw)
 
yeah, that's it.
that way it doesn't pad
the union will ensure things are organized in the correct order....
The pragma will ensure you're addressing is predictable.

Then you should be able to reference things like that.
 
unions guarantee order, but plain structs/classes don't? I'm confused now.
 
the order is important in unions
 
10:02 PM
Hmm, now that I think about it I was being stupid. I can simply change the internal representation to an array instead of separate variables. But I learned something new, so it was worth being stupid. :)
 
I'm not sure.... we use plain structs all the time, and order is exactly as expected when using pragma push/pop
 
man
I'm gonna have to actually work
 
OH.... that's it
In a basic struct/class, the data is laid out as declared.
However the layout is UB when you introduce it to classes with inheritance and virtual tables, etc.
That's why I wrap all data I want to be declared predictably in a struct.
 
I never have any data I want to be laid out predictably
well, except when I'm working with DirectX I guess, they have a lot of raw binary stuff
 
@DeadMG That's my situation. OpenGL here, but same problem.
 
10:11 PM
@DeadMG My work revolves around raw binary.... I'm communicating with an external language that only sends raw binary as communication.
later
gotta go
 
I want to get cracking on DX
but I've got a lot of university work here
not that I'm actually doing it when I should be
 
Xeo
@DeadMG, you really like to pick on askers lately, huh?
 
ask a stupid question and I am not afraid to point it out
no more than I would if you asked a stupid answer
asked a stupid answer?
kek
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Horde/Alliance ?
 
both
 
10:33 PM
ahhh c++0x now has a way to add certain members after a class has been defined!
struct A { enum B : int; }; enum A::B : int { X }; <- add A::X afterwards!
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaublitb WHAT?!
 
@JohannesSchaublitb So: A a; a.X; // valid syntax?
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked rather A::X
@JohannesSchaublitb Wait, so basically they just allowed seperated declaration and definition for enums?
 
Forward declaration of enums is one of C++0x' features, if I remember well.
 
Xeo
Oh well, I'm waiting for the day when they allow enums to inherit from other enums..
 
10:43 PM
@Xeo And what are you going to do on that day then?
Let me guess: inherit an enum? :D
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Yes. Because that allows extending an existing enum.
A feature I sometimes miss badly in C++, because I need to switch to const ints then.
The problem is, enums are a distinct type, every one of them.
 
Strangely that's a feature I never needed.
 
Xeo
Just as a support for your last sentence in your answer. :)
 
GG
I should be working
 
11:19 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb have they done anything to specify the default representation of enums? Do they specify the native word of the machine?
 

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