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sbi
9:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus Oh, right, you are the cat. Sorry, I was expecting arguments, rather than biased opinions. Mea culpa.
7
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes got it
 
or, maybe creapy and havy
 
Yep, can't have biased opinions. All opinions must be unbiased.
 
sbi
@Xeo Must be one hell of a sentence, when reformulating is such a task that you have to announce it.
 
IDEs actually make me less productive than vim, so there's that.
 
9:01 PM
@Xeo Doesn't quite compile on 4.6.2 though :(
test.cpp|4 col 3| error: a class-key must be used when declaring a friend
test.cpp|4 col 3| error: friend declaration does not name a class or function
 
Terrible, terrible editors.
Everything else is secondary.
 
Xeo
@sehe C++11 version, which allows friend T; without class, befriending template parameters
 
@Xeo FWIW the example compiles as-is in C++11. Also works without the class keyword, which makes me thing that this is one of those relaxation.
 
@CatPlusPlus Define "productive".
 
Ell
I personally don't find IDEs good
 
9:02 PM
@Xeo Duh. Of course I use the std=c++0x
 
90% I don't even use debugger, because it's less hassle to just print out the current state.
 
Ell
I would rather a good text editor & cmake :3
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Ah, yes, but OP didn't want to have to mention every possible ClassImplType
 
@EtiennedeMartel Editing is slower. Moving around is slower.
 
@CatPlusPlus Now that's a weird one.
 
9:02 PM
but yeah, really, what is an IDE but an editor with a fancy button to compile, and another to run the program?
 
Xeo
aka he wanted to friend once, not X times
 
Ell
@thecoshman it seems much less usable than that :3
 
Xeo
The OP's code is working, nothing wrong there. But he asked for a better version.
 
Modality is a big thing (tm)
 
I don't know how one can go without an actual debugger.
 
9:04 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Easy. Just don't make bugs.
 
@EtiennedeMartel FWIW, I seldom fire up a debugger; most of the time I crack bugs from looking at test results.
 
That, and print the shit out of it.
 
isn't it possible to replace the enum with a set of types that represent the enumerator values
 
I got a friend who keeps printing stuff, and man, it seems to me like he takes more time writing printf or std::cout than putting a breakpoint at the right spot.
 
sbi
@thecoshman Um. A debugger? A GUI designer? A project management tool? A code analysis tool? A...
 
9:05 PM
oh it's not necessary
 
What's project management tool
 
Unless you mean project manager, he might be a tool
 
Xeo
@Luc There, reformulated. Does it read better now?
 
Really, why do people keep comparing a text editor to the text editor part of an IDE? The whole "Integrated" part of "Integrated Development Environment" is what's attractive about an IDE.
3
 
9:06 PM
Because I want good editor first, and everything else second.
2
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Do this in a multi-MLoC project, that compiles for 30mins, in template code stuck in headers that are included everywhere. And don't you ever forget to remove all those print statements. (Also, do this in GUI apps that do not have a console.)
 
Also that whole "you're good at one thing or mediocre at many"
 
@Xeo You've had my upvote for like 2 minutes already!
 
Tests tests tests
 
@EtiennedeMartel because many IDE's screw up the text editor part, and that's the most important part.
 
9:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I tend to debug my tests. Then again, corrupting stack everywhere with bugged variants is 'fun'.
 
@MooingDuck That doesn't make the whole "IDE" concept crappy.
 
@sbi but why do you need it all strapped together? sure a Swiss army knife is handy, but they they do not compare to having a proper knife, and proper fork, a proper saw etc.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I agree
 
@thecoshman Because carrying all those things at once is a pain.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Oh, but that was before I hit "Save edits"! :)
 
9:08 PM
@thecoshman because they should work togeather
@thecoshman I wouldn't want one program for writing emails and a seperate program for sending them. That's just stupid.
 
fuck, I didn't to get drawn into this
 
@Xeo Well sure but I can't upvote more!
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Sure can. :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. Forgot about that motherfucker. First entry on the brown list, right?
 
9:08 PM
Guys, too many stars.
 
sbi
@thecoshman Actually, I am one of those men who always carry a swiss army knife. :-/
 
If writing code makes me angry because the editor is as advanced as Notepad 1.0 then everything else doesn't matter at all
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck In fact, I use several editors. If there's one task I don't know how to do in one editor, I either open the file, or copy a few lines, over to another, and do that there.
 
(I get so many issues with newline endings in Visual Studio it's not even funny)
 
9:10 PM
Another way to mark trolls is to put them on the read list - since it serves no other purpose.
 
I get the appeal of having a one stop program, but to me, the editor in IDE's just isn't as good as other editors out their. And as @cat says, the editor is the key part of it
 
So all the regulars on the write list, and all the trolls on the read list.
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, but that's just a windows thing really, though it should accept their are other line endings
 
Plus, I write in languages that have REPLs. :v:
 
@Mysticial Hmm. Clever.
 
9:10 PM
Who needs a debugger.
@thecoshman What's a Windows thing?
That VS can't insert proper newline endings if its life depended on it?
 
sbi
If writing code makes me angry because the editor is as advanced as Notepad 1.0 then... you have never worked with Notepad 1.0. Also, I have felt delighted about Notepad 1.0 at some times, because it was so much better than some of the shit I had to use before that. (Yeah, really. edlin, anybody? vi?)
 
Editors on Windows have no problem dealing with any style of newlines.
 
@thecoshman it can read other line endings fine. I don't think it'll write them though.
 
I'd rather write in vi than use VS yup
 
@CatPlusPlus it inserts the standard line endings for Windows, and that's all it cares about
 
9:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus Me. But I do GUI stuff with WPF. Printing in a console that's already chock full of stupid binding errors, swallowed exceptions and runtime debug messages would be counterproductive.
 
@thecoshman It actually can save as any, but it's retarded.
So there's that
 
@sbi DOS "edlin" sucked forcefully. also the GWBasic-based "edit" (still there in XP!)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Man, WPF is such a spammer.
 
@sbi really? huh...
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, not entirely serious. I use debuggers sometimes, I just don't need them in my editor.
 
sbi
9:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus What do you care about line endings? It's the VCS' task to convert those.
 
@CatPlusPlus What do you use when you need a debugger?
 
Depends on the language.
 
@sbi I don't agree with that, but I honestly have no idea what the cat is on about.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes .NET as well. I get a message for every fucking loaded assembly.
 
The only language I use IDE for is Java, because it can't be written without one.
For C++ I use gdb. For rest, REPLs.
 
9:14 PM
@CatPlusPlus I'm guessing you never did any C# then.
@CatPlusPlus You use GDB? Wut?
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm waiting on Cling. Well, I'm waiting on Clang to be able to deal with my code.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Some Unity, I really don't like C# any more than Java.
 
user142019
I use LLDB and valgrind for C++ and C and print for everything else.
 
And yes, it's another language that's so boilerplated that can't be written without an IDE, my condolences
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't know, I hit Alt+Enter and my code writes itself.
 
9:15 PM
That code that writes itself shouldn't be necessary in the first plae
Now excuse me, I have bash to do.
 
Where's the brown list?
 
On the wiki duh
 
I can't see to find a link to it on the hints.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes VC chokes on files with mixed line endings. I once sent emails back and forth with someone on the VC team about that, but he said they really investigated, and it would make the compiler slower to make it ignore that. In the end they added a feature to VS instead where the editor would pop up a message box if you open a file with mixed line endings. I can live with that.
 
user142019
9:15 PM
Meh.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, it's the VCS' task to provide platform independence, and converting line endings is part of that.
 
There are days when I get that fucking popup EVERY TIME
And no, I like my files tidy without VCS messing about them thanks
 
ok, I added those two to the read-of-shame list.
 
@CatPlusPlus So fix your VCS config.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's because you copy files between platforms, rather than using a proper VCS. Shrug.
 
who are the other regulars who are not on the write list?
 
Xeo
1
Q: Clang typecasting using C++11 has ambiguous compiler behaviour

TroelsConsider the following code: #include<iostream> #include<vector> using namespace std; class Foo { public: template< typename T> operator vector< T >() const { return vector< T >(); } template< typename T> operator T() const { return T(); ...

This question has me confuzzled
 
Luchian
In Silico
...
 
sbi
@Mysticial What's with Luchian?
 
@sbi Regulars who are not on the write list.
 
sbi
@Mysticial What#s the "write list"?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes please tell me that is a joke
 
@sbi The write-access list.
 
@Mysticial I'm assuming room owners are exempt or I cant see the full write list, because the robot isn't on it
 
So I'm putting all the trolls on the read list. And all the regulars on the write-access list.
 
sbi
9:19 PM
@thecoshman The Republicans are, yeah. Unfortunately, half of the Merkins haven't grasped that.
 
@MooingDuck Room owners are on the owner list.
 
@sbi except that the visual studio editor produces files that itself then thinks has mixed line endings
 
@MooingDuck room owners are obviously above the write access list.
 
@thecoshman I could tell you that, but then I'd be lying.
 
user142019
Republicans, that’s Romney right? Or Obama?
 
9:19 PM
Rapptz, is a regular. Adding him to the write list.
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I think I have seen VS2010 do this, yeah, but not in C++.
@WTP'-- Shakes head. O.M.G.
 
user142019
How do I know. As if I ever watch American news.
 
sbi
@Mysticial So Luchian is a troll?? I must have missed something there.
 
user142019
Also, America’s political system is terrible and unnecessary unfair and complex.
 
sbi
@WTP'-- I never do.
 
9:21 PM
@sbi nonono, he's a regular.
 
sbi
@WTP'-- One more reason to know what terrible thing it's about to produce.
 
@sbi Well, all editors I use work transparently with any line endings, and given a file without mixed line endings they don't produce files with mixed line endings, and don't change them. Basically, I don't even see a need for the task of converting line endings.
 
sbi
@Mysticial Oh, I see.
 
@Mysticial people in the room that I recognize and are not on the list are WTP'--, bamboon, Drise, Griwes, melak47, cHao, Rapptz, kbok, and Luchian Grigore.
 
Ell
"If it's inevitable just relax and enjoy it" - WTF! Lalso 80s songs again :3
 
sbi
9:22 PM
@Mysticial What's that for? Are you guys planning to take this room gallery?
 
@sbi it's in case we have to.
 
@sbi no, just a way to label who the regulars are
We're not going to turn into the Android room.
 
sbi
@Mysticial What for??
 
@sbi No, but it's annoying when push comes to shove and we need to handle write requests.
 
@thecoshman Well, I do think the "forcible rape" one is a bit ...misplaced. Depending on exact state law, sex between an adult and a minor is often considered rape, even if both parties consent. As such, non-forcible rape really is entirely possible (for a fairly typical legal definition of "rape").
 
9:23 PM
why don't you just put regulars on the write list if they are around when the room goes in the gallery mode?
 
sbi
@MooingDuck If you have to, everyone plinks at the owners to allow them in, and you can decide for everybody when they ask, so there really is no need.
 
@JerryCoffin that's simply sex with a minor
 
@sbi it also provides the gratification of being labeled as "a regular"
 
@thecoshman Because that's annoying. Both for people putting them on the list, and for people waiting to get write access.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes When push comes to shove, the room's usually been overheated for a while. In those cases there's no need to let everybody in immediately. Also, it's often room owners (like jalf, Alf, me) who make a big splash.
 
9:24 PM
@thecoshman I'm told the USA considers that to be rape
 
@thecoshman At least in most states, it's legally classified as rape.
 
same here
"statutory rape"
 
Rape is rape, their is no consensual rape, legitimate rape, compassionate rape, acceptable rape, just rape, or any other kind of rape. If they do not want sex, male or female, it is rape
 
sbi
@MooingDuck See, I was afraid it was about this. "Be here often, and we might put you onto the write list." And then some asshole is here every day and keeps bitching about how nobody puts him up there.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Oh, I remember that story about the teacher fleeing with the willing student from GB and later being arrested on kidnapping
 
9:26 PM
@thecoshman Here in the UK we also have statutory rape, for <16s
 
@thecoshman I agree: there is no acceptable rap. Rap music sound is not acceptable in any form.
8
 
@DeadMG is it though? I thought consensual sex with an adult and a minor, even if it is like a week either side of this magic age limit
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Too much stars," he said.
 
and, last I checked, you can also be convicted of rape if the female was very intoxicated but perfectly consenting and then decided to un-consent later
 
@thecoshman in the USA there's exceptions if they're within 6 years of age or something
 
9:27 PM
@sbi Hey, there's only one message that I starred currently visible. Not my fault that I'm witty.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes god damn you. I try to make a serious point and you whore it for stars
 
Xeo
Atleast it's not as bad as in Japan, where just asking a school girl for directions might get you hunted by the police.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes So you bastard starred none of my messages?!
 
@thecoshman Strictly, the offence is called statutory rape. But because it's quite ridiculous to correlate that with actual rape, it's often referred to as "sex with a minor" or something like that.
 
@DeadMG which is some what dubious, on one hand she was perfectly ok with it at the time, but on the other, it's a dick move
 
9:28 PM
@sbi That much must be obvious: there is none of your messages currently visible in the starboard.
 
I don't think so at all
 
@DeadMG ah, perhaps my confusion on the matter
 
if you voluntarily intoxicate yourself, then what you do is your problem
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Get your cameras fixed.
 
I wouldn't let you off if you smashed a window whilst intoxicated
 
9:28 PM
Oh, wait, there's one.
 
or something like that
 
@CatPlusPlus hm, I have a problem with eclipse...
it detects the mingw32 GCC toolchain fine, but the 64bit one not at all.
Could be because mingw64's executables are called "x86_64-w64-mingw32-g++.exe" instead of just "ming32-g++.exe", but I have no idea how to tell eclipse what to look for...
 
@sbi That's the one I starred. whistles
 
so I see no reason why (women only, of course) intoxication should be available as a "defence" here
 
@DeadMG yes, but it's more about taking advantage of some one who was intoxicated. I am not sure how legally binding things like contracts are if the person has drunk
 
9:29 PM
you can only take advantage of someone who is intoxicated if doing so wasn't their choice
in which case, I can fully see that this is a criminal matter (if you knew it was involuntary)
 
@sbi You're not that star-worthy anymore now that you're no longer an owner.
 
it's not a man's job to guesstimate how drunk a woman is- if you don't want to say yes to every man you meet, then don't get so drunk
2
 
not really an expert on the legal matters my self
 
@DeadMG don't suppose you'd have an idea how I can make eclipse see mingw64? :/
 
@thecoshman What exactly is your point then? "I don't agree with their definition of the word 'rape'"? How does that qualify as a serious point?
 
9:32 PM
@melak47 You have to explicitly set the filepath. I don't quite remember how.
 
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
 
@DeadMG filepath?
 
to the compiler
 
My reality is bigger than yours.
 
there's a setting for the compiler name or filepath which is defaulted to something, and you just have to change it
 
9:33 PM
@JerryCoffin no, I don't agree with the view that some rape's are ok (cases where it is consensual sex with minors aside)
 
@DeadMG well, D:\Dev\MinGW\bin is in my PATH...and that works for mingw32
 
fuck PATH
it's an Eclipse setting.
 
sbi
> Just a friendly reminder that we refer to a "tramp stamp" as "ass antlers" (Arschgeweih). #dailydeutsch #dichterunddenker@ShitGermansSay
 
why are you even asking me? I did Eclipse once, for five minutes, months ago, and I have little idea.
 
@DeadMG because kyrostat :p
 
9:34 PM
I fiddled with it for about a hour, I made it work
that was four months ago
 
@melak47 stackoverflow.com/questions/2291369/… and similar maybe? I dunno
 
I have no idea what I did
 
:593340 dude, just use a proper text editor, and for building all you do is run scons, it's not such a big deal
 
oh, wait
 
sbi
"I did Eclipse once, for five minutes" "I fiddled with it for about a hour" "Also, it was Code::Blocks, not Eclipse"
 
9:35 PM
I used Code::Blocks, not Eclipse
 
@thecoshman I don't think anybody said or implied any such thing though. I believe I started this by pointing to the fact that "forcible rape" isn't necessarily redundant. Nothing more or less than that.
 
@JerryCoffin At least not anybody not in that chart.
 
that's true, but I also think it's a bit disingenuous, because none or hardly any of the other "qualifiers" they added actually did make sense
 
18 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
user image
'Honest rape'?
'legitimate rape'?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Some of those rapists are dishonest, you know? Thank god, not all of them are, though. This would truly be a bad place if they were.
 
9:37 PM
'easy rape' and 'enjoyable rape' are my favourites
3
 
come one? how can a country that thinks a rape can be 'legitimate' be allowed to have a military force?
2
 
@DeadMG I don't think I was being disingenuous at all -- I was pointing specifically to the fact that the "forcible rape" really didn't fit with the rest of those.
 
hm
well I wasn't really paying attention to the context
 
@thecoshman 'be allowed'? By what?
 
but if that was the intention then I withdraw my accusation of disingenuity(?)
 
Ell
9:38 PM
someone star whaT deadly jusst said for a sec
 
@LucDanton huh?
 
Ell
okay thank you :D
 
sbi
@LucDanton Common sense?
 
@thecoshman I think you're misinterpreting what was said. I'm reasonably sure the intent there was to separate actual rapes from cases where (for example) it was consensual at the time, but the woman had second thoughts later, and claimed she was raped.
 
@thecoshman A possible answer to your question is that there is no authority that can allow or disallow a country to have a military force.
 
9:40 PM
@LucDanton no shit
 
sbi
@LucDanton Why is that even allowed?
 
@sbi What would allow that?
 
Ell
If only we had robots to do our bidding then we woildnt even need money
 
hmmmm
"easy rape"
 
@LucDanton yet as a world we some how dictate who can have nuclear weapons?
 
9:41 PM
In the late 1990's, the director of health (title?) in norway had to resign. on the surface because of some personal conflict stuff or whatever. but it followed her pointing out that near 100% of forcible rapes in oslo was by northern africans, who (and this was the reason for her alarm) had extremely high percentage of HIV infected. she got silent fast. then out of job
 
"Hey guys, let's go on down to the park. There are lots of women there today and we can have ourselves some easy enjoyable rape."
 
a few years later the statistics stopped being published
 
@thecoshman No. For the 'as a world' part. And the 'dictate' part.
 
@JerryCoffin The graphic makes no mention of cases where women have sex whilst drunk and later claim to be have been raped. That is not what problem I am on about
 
i think it was a case of misunderstood "good morals", that we shouldn't discriminate against or nurse negative feelings about them northern african males
 
Xeo
9:43 PM
0
Q: std::vector vs. #include <vector>

X33I was told to not do the following: #include <vector> And that I should do std::vector Is there any substantial advantage or reason as to why I should do it that way specifically?

Somebody is confused here.
 
but if was a woman i would certainly want to know!
 
@thecoshman Come on now. It's not a country. The quotes are not from "United States of America", but from specific people.
 
why NARQ?
the guy might be confused, but I don't think his question is bad
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes true true, but these people are not holding unique views amongst the populous
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Which are the favorite politicians of a sizable amount of the country's inhabitants. Really, is there any Europeans that do not wonder whether to laugh or sadly shake their heads about what the Republicans have said in the last few months?
 
9:45 PM
you can find nutters everywhere in every country
the problem is that in the USA they get elected
 
user142019
@Xeo what. I told that guy to do use vector.
 
Ell
Does anyone know how @drise is doing?
 
user142019
Yes, such as decent semantics and clear syntax, and you’re actually writing C++ rather than C. See this article by DeadMG on why C-arrays are terrible. — WTP'-- 8 mins ago
 
sbi
@Ell Yeah. Check the transcript from a few hours ago. He was here and he told us.
 
@thecoshman So exactly what are you on about? The fact that somebody used wording that (if you try hard enough) you can misinterpret as meaning something that's quite obviously different from anything he intended to say? Don't get me wrong: when most of what you're paid to do is talk, I think you should be good at it and careful about what you say -- but trying to interpret this as saying that in some cases it's legitimate to rape somebody really is being disingenuous.
 
9:47 PM
@sbi I don't wonder. I laugh.
@sbi Still, don't you think it's an unfair representation of the other about-half of the population?
 
in Java, 59 secs ago, by Lews Therin
I wish I was more like Skeet
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am sure that people also used to laugh in all those countries Merkins can't even spell, but could engage in war with.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm interpreting this as 'these people think there is such a thing a legitimate rape'. The very thought that such people could be brought into power sickens me
 
@WTP'-- The spreading of The Puppy's Word has begun.
 
user142019
:D
 
9:49 PM
was just thinking that
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Who cares for my feelings about "grammar nazi"?
 
but you might want to change it to be codepuppy.co.uk
cause the wide-language.com domain is expiring in two months and I'm not renewing it
 
user142019
Will do.
 
@sbi Tat for tat?
 
@sbi That counts as a misrepresentation of the German people? I mean, does anyone really mean "grammar German" when they say that?
If so... I'm baffled.
 
9:50 PM
And I very much hope that I am reading too much into what these people have said, I really do hope that it is just very badly phrased and out of context quotes. I really do hope that these views are no genuinely held by such people. I just very much bdoubt it
 
Ell
Old testament, and puppy said unto the people, though shalt not use c arrays...
 
Wouldn't mind this hotel in NZ:
:)
 
user142019
@DeadMG fixed.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, it's just that I feel bad when this is used like it's a joke. And I bet many French never eat frogs. And not all Italian men are machos, are they? Etc.
 
@sbi Anyway, I actually don't laugh (outrage here: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=5927003#5927003). I was trying to convince myself I just laughed :(
 
9:51 PM
@thecoshman Then you're clearly misinterpreting what was said. It's pretty clear if you read everything he had to say that his use of "legitimate" was only to separate cases of actual rape from cases where the word "rape" was/is applied, but there was no actual sex at all, or the sex that happened was entirely consensual.
 
@sbi I think the difference is that the German people are not currently about half Nazis. I know that there are still a few supporters but they are the vast, vast, vast minority- not a good half the population.
 
@JerryCoffin i think in the end we must leave the job of separating true from false, to the courts.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Well, those far-right idiots made it into a few parliaments. Local ones, but also in a few German states. Alse, read this.
 
@thecoshman I'm sure many of them are just instances of unfortunate wordings.
 
@sbi Yeah, didn't get that before I wrote my response.
 
9:54 PM
@sbi I... I don't know the stereotypes you are referring to :(
Or should that be ":)" ?
 
sbi
Hey, @R.Martinho, you might want to follow this Twitter account now. :)
 
If I change my avatar on the main SO site, how long does it take to update in chat?
 
sbi
@Code-Guru Usually it takes some time.
Haha, I like this one:
> Capitalize all the nouns. #dailydeutsch@ShitGermansSay
 
I can understand being upset about the usage of that term, but I don't think it's at all the same as saying that the USA think rape can be legitimate. No one is trying to convey any idea about Germany or Germans when they use it.
 
@sbi ayight...I just wanted to be sure something wasn't broken on my end. Do you know how long usually?
 
sbi
9:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I never claimed they are similar, except in that nobody cares whether stereotypes really fit when they use them. If you are so upset about this one being too dissimilar, then just think of how all Hollywood Germans are always blond. blue-eyed, and villains. Or that everybody thinks that Oktoberfest is something truly German. Or... Really, it doesn't matter.
 

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