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11:00 AM
@WTP'-- ¬_¬ we've just been ranting about this for a while...
 
user142019
^_^ as if I know…
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm thinking it could come from his university, too
 
What's so important about keeping objects on the stack?
 
@Cicada yeah, I don't get it either, I assume they mean 'global' but what's the friging point?
 
Here's a pointer: stop using Java ;-)
 
11:00 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The limited lifetime
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes really?
 
user142019
@rvalue evil employers say NullPointerException
 
@Cicada Ah, so you guys want scoped lifetime, not stuff on the stack.
Having stuff on the stack is overrated.
 
user142019
Having stuff on the stack is underrated.
 
@WTP'-- Precisely this.
 
11:01 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes and the stack provides an rather perfect solution for that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It is overrated when you have to continually copy the lot into/outof containers.
 
@thecoshman No, the stack is irrelevant.
 
I'm yet to see a heap allocator faster than a register addition
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're just saying that because you made your non-transferrable unique_ptr or whatever class
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, IDC about the memory segment, I want controlled lifetime
 
11:02 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes really? if you want objects the be cleared up when a function returns, what better way the a stack of scope?
 
No, I'm saying that because if you want stuff on the stack because "fast" or whatever, you can just grab a chunk of memory and make a stack out of it for your data, that you have full control over and whatnot.
 
In the long run, scoped asynchronous/multithreaded programming a la JavaScript will take over and we'll need to divorce SBRM from the stack.
 
@thecoshman Where the object lives is irrelevant. What you need is language level support.
 
@rvalue ..and I've yet to see a copy-ctor for a 10K object that is faster than assigning a pointer.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh sure, you don't need the stack but a stack is the way to go
 
user142019
11:03 AM
If you care about speed, use a language designed for it wherefore compilers compile to machine code ahead-of-time. Like C or C++.
 
@thecoshman Here's the catch: what I just described is similar to what Java already does.
 
@MartinJames MyClass(MyClass&& rhs)
 
user142019
@rvalue copy ctor.
 
user142019
And a move ctor is not faster than assigning a pointer most of the time.
 
lunch time!
 
11:04 AM
@rvalue If you grep this transcript, the puppy showed a benchmark with one.
 
@WTP'-- Precisely, copying a 10k object is going to require copying 10k of memory. If you want to transfer it, you're looking for a move constructor
 
user142019
Since, well, you need to swap two pointers so you assign two (possibly three) pointers.
 
user142019
Unless you have 10kB pointers. :D
 
@WTP'-- Like Java?
 
@WTP'-- LOL! (I have been told not to grin)
 
user142019
11:06 AM
Java’s stack is on the heap!
 
user142019
Stackless Java would be cool.
 
@WTP'-- Technically correct. The best kind of correct.
 
@WTP'-- Which stack?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes All of them, due to the userspace VM.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes inb4 j/k
 
11:08 AM
@Cicada any news on the whole hating-university situation?
 
She still hates it. :P
 
I hate it now, but a tad too late...
 
Which is fair enough, universities are far more interested in making academics than other people's employees
The good news is that the best places to work don't care about your degree or lack thereof.
They do tend to be picky on experience, though.
 
Yeah, universities are not employee factories. Fortunately.
3
 
@rvalue I've noticed.
 
11:11 AM
@thecoshman You should have asked someone to pin that.
 
Uni - three years of cheap, but piss-poor, beer.
 
There is, though, some university knowledge that can't be replaced with experience
 
@MartinJames I've got my BComp, but I'd probably go back for MA or Ph.D. if I had the time
I'm an academic by nature, though.
 
I think about doing a PhD but I also want money :/
 
@kbok I think one of the key things that make an employer great is having people around willing to mentor you in that stuff.
 
11:14 AM
@rvalue FFS why? ££££ for some extra letters. Then you have a wider set of jobs to apply for and still get refused.
 
@MartinJames Because I like doing original research, and my local university is a great environment for that
 
@rvalue Sure, but mentoring means teaching what's needed
 
@rvalue OK - I cannot argue with that.
 
Knowledge of mathematics, theoretical CS, and how to reason can hardly be taught in the workplace
 
@MartinJames If I had the time. Meanwhile, I'll just take on more side-projects :D
 
11:16 AM
@kbok Mentoring means teaching what is needed for the junior employee to get enough experience to go contracting for a rival company.
 
@kbok No, and university is unfortunately what people look for to see if you can do that.
 
Yeah :(
 
@kbok To clarify, I think that's unfortunate because it's not what the university is testing for; and that those skills can be developed easier in other environments much cheaper.
I understand that a degree at most US universities is going to put somebody in debt for a significant portion of their life
 
@rvalue You mean math and stuff ?
 
@kbok Not necessarily. I've seen a few projects that were far ahead of what was theoretically researched in universities, just to get to the market fast. Those include many of those skillsets to be developed by the employees involved, although you may have a point about the initial acquiring of those skills.
 
11:18 AM
@kbok Fundamental mathematics and algebra should be a requirement of K-12 education
It is in Australia
 
@rvalue I don't know what it is
 
What's K-12?
 
Kindergarten through to year 12
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Isn't that mountain?
 
11:19 AM
@jalf For some people ;)
 
so you're saying mountaineers should be required to learn algebra? ;)
 
I'm afraid we aren't talking about the same kind of mathematics :)
 
@jalf No hyphen, I think.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes aw, boring
 
The two best people who ever worked for me had just some sort of inherent skill. Sue could get stuff out of stores and onto the shop floor faster than anyone else. Wendy could blow a surface-mount 144-pin chip off a board in seconds and install a new one almost as fast.
 
11:21 AM
I mean space geometry, derivation, matrix transformations, integrals, trigonometrics
 
@MartinJames So, Sue was the Flash?
 
To clarify; in Australia a child enters education compulsorily at age 5, and progresses through to year 10. In years 9 and 10 they get an increasing choice in which subjects to take. After grade 10, the vast majority ( > 90% ) enter 'college' for two more years of self-chosen subjects.
After that, there's university.
Or work.
Or welfare.
 
read: "Life"
 
I learned about Life on 10th grade.
 
11:24 AM
I think that if you turn 18 before passing grade 10 you don't have to re-enroll. That's pretty rare.
 
So in grade 10 you're around 15 years old ?
This looks pretty simple
 
@kbok Sounds right.
 
in France to have a degree you pass through no less than 6 different institutions
 
Australia is typically 4; k-6 (primary), 7-10 (secondary/high school), 11-12(13) college, {university}
 
geez, wikipedia is cool but I'd like Jummy Wales to stop putting his giant head on the header of each page
3
 
11:27 AM
His head's not giant, it's just in the foreground.
 
2
A: C++ move/remove symbol

Lightness Races in OrbitBasically, no. But as the others say you can use a namespace instead to get the same effect with what is actually essentially a completely different symbol.

Tomalak is back.
 
the foreground is giant then
 
@kbok What, he's at it again?
I see no jimmies on my wikipedia.
 
It does not pop up everytime
I don't know what the logic is.
Maybe he's following me
 
@jalf I still hate it with a passion :D I think it's better if I try to pass this year, and then enter an exchange program with a foreign university. Quitting now would be a waste.
 
"Quitting now would be a waste." I read this in the context of smoking.
@rvalue Needs Flash. Flash doesn't like me.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Flash doesn't like anybody. That's why he runs so fast.
 
No, it refuses to install for me.
But the feeling is mutual, so...
 
No. But come on, all developers are lazy. That's why we have "using namespace nsname;" constructs in basically all sane languages. — Tomasz Grobelny 33 mins ago
lol
 
@rvalue what the fuck
 
11:33 AM
His definition of sanity is somewhat different than mine.
 
@Cicada even so, begin preparing for the exchange program now. Most likely, if you apply now, you'll be able to go next year, or something like that
it takes aaaaaaaaaages to sort out
 
Oh, Strong Bad.
 
@Cicada Strong Bad is, IMO, the reason for Flash.
 
? ? ?
I don't have sound
 
@rvalue SFW?
 
11:35 AM
@kbok you must've gone deaf
 
@sehe May contain Weird, but yes.
 
@kbok Didn't you have something like that before?
 
I mean, I don't have speakers and I'm too lazy to plug my headphones
 
PEB...A...
 
@sehe Republican and Democrat?
Oh man... watched the latest debate. Seriously, the people you choose to represent a nation should be selected with a bit more attention.
Anywho, re-dualbooting. Back in a few.
 
11:40 AM
why is it that std::stringstream operator<< has no overload for std::string ?
is that too logical or what?
 
I think it has.
 
@TonyTheLion Forgot to include <string>.
 
(it's the same that other streams use)
 
Back again. Soddin' ISP..
 
11:42 AM
I doesn't, but string has a stream overload.
 
Why were you sodding your ISP?
 
and for wstring?
 
What kind of perv are you, man?
@TonyTheLion You need a std::wstringstream then.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would like to do more to them.
 
Can't put ws into non-ws.
 
11:43 AM
well yes that's what I'm using, but it don't like it with a wstring
 
wut
 
What do you not like ?
 
@TonyTheLion wstringstream, perhaps?
 
Anyone using Kdevelop here ?
 
Why are we still reasoning using the concept of threads instead of "active objects"?
 
11:47 AM
I for one don't know what it is.
 
@Cicada bcoz you don't even tell live objects from active objects.
 
Well "active object" as in UML
 
what do you expect from others then %)
 
Still.
 
the thing is, active object is object, and thread is an "active function"
 
11:50 AM
I don't know either. I would guess that an active object is one whose methods currently have execution.
 
so, it's like "why do we use free functions if we can use only objects"
 
fuck gnome.org, I asked for the english tutorial, why do you give me a french translation, I don't want no stinking translation, fuck you gnome.org
 
@kbok hahaha
 
@kbok Problème ?
 
@Cicada An active object is an object that keeps a running thread, right?
 
11:52 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Basically yes
 
Doesn't sound like much of an improvement, then.
 
Oh, and there's a "select lang" option, when you select your lang, it redirects you to the home page. fuck
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also a message passing interface, i.e. thread-safe methods.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not much, but still
 
Non-blocking a plus if not in fact a prerequisite, I don't remember.
 
11:53 AM
The point is abstracting the thread concept
 
I usually refer to such an object as a 'subsystem'.
 
Also the CSS is butt ugly
 
@LucDanton Ah, so it's lot like an actor?
 
@LucDanton Oh - I'm all in favour of message passing interfaces, thread-safe methods. Also callbacks so that the user has a choice of synch/async operation.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did, like two messages down
 
11:58 AM
Erm, no, you didn't :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ did you just bin it?
 
Erm, no, I didn't :P
 
oh now really
 
How will the debut of the iPad Mini will affect the US presidential election?
 
I wonder why this is where it is?
@R.MartinhoFernandes depends which candidate declares love for it first
 
12:01 PM
I don’t like the C++ bit
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Actually I was thinking of that. I think I've seen 'active object' used with that meaning also because looking at some of the literature for 'active object' I'm fairly sure I've never seen it used their way. Which I'm not sure what it's about tbh.
Best I can put it is that's it's a design pattern which implementation makes use of some very actor-like classes? Hard to tell.
 
@KonradRudolph me neither
 
Xeo
-1
A: What is the name of this operator: "-->"?

Rahul TripathiIt is equivalent to -- and >. The operator -- is a pre or post decrement operator. Whereas > is a greater than operator. So it is equivalent to write it as (x--) > 0

Nuke it please.
 
@KonradRudolph eh, I don't like a bunch of the others either. The author's biases/preconceived ideas about half the languages shines through a bit much. And it's just not terribly witty/well-written
 
12:06 PM
@thecoshman I think it should be more along the lines of “let’s face it, C++ is ugly. But she lets you do … whoa, everything
 
@KonradRudolph not really ugly, so much as "had a bit to much plastic surgery"
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Especially the comparision to Java. The fuck. If anything, Java is C++'s cousin.
 
na, I think C++ is butt ugly
 
@jalf I share the same opinions.
 
@Xeo That's a symmetric relationship.
 
12:08 PM
@jalf indeed
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Well, true.
 
2
Q: Count strings in string array c++?

tonniHow to sum number of strings in string array in which is not explicit defined how many elements it takes? string str[] = { "astring", "bstring", "cstring", "dstring", "zstring" }; Need to find out how many elements array have?

Lousy answer gets +7, good answer even gets downvotes.
 
@KonradRudolph The author looks like he doesn't know shit about any programming language
 
@Xeo eh? I don't know how things are done in your family, but here, at least, that's generally symmetric. If A is B's cousin, then B is also A's cousin
 
Xeo
12:12 PM
Meh, maybe I shouldn't have used "cousin" there.
 
@kbok or at least, he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does
@Xeo certainly not if you actually meant something else
 
Makes sense.
 
like, say, 'walnut' or 'steam engine'
 
Maybe the guy knows programming languages, but doesn't know shit about girlfriends.
 
@jalf Not that anyone who answered looks like he knows what he's talking about
It's Quora after all
 
12:14 PM
I've never really used Quora, just seen two or three questions there
 
For me it's Yahoo Questions except it's not popular in France
 
don't know how good the site usually is
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes IS it me, or does the fact it is strings not matter?
 
^ This guy is a douche but in this case he has a serious point
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^^ It’s a bit shallow ;)
@kbok He is? (a douche)? Why?
 
12:16 PM
I like Miguel.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes as in the beer?
 
There's a beer with that name?
I don't like beer.
@Neil Look at the starboard.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes , well 'San Miguel'
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh hell I knew I saw that from somewhere
 
:5924871 ¬_¬ except they are not that accurate
 
12:17 PM
It doesn't seem many here agree with "remarkably accurate".
 
morning
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It doesn't seem many here would agree with anything
 
@Neil I disagree.
 
> “Say Oui To France,” which will launch on October 25th, [...] the “true formula to successful investment in France.” I really hope that answer isn’t “Belgium.”
 
@LucDanton Agreement by disagreement. :)
 
12:18 PM
@DeadMG It's 13:18.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just got up and had breakfast. Therefore, it's morning.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes he's ignorant of time
see
 
also, nice job on getting the time in my timezone correct
 
@KonradRudolph I don't know, maybe he just doesn't like people
 
isn't Portugal the same time-zone as us?
 
12:19 PM
@DeadMG Let's say I cheated: it's the same as mine.
 
called it!
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's not cheating
 
huh
really?
 
I thought that everyfucker in Europe was too dumb to notice that most of them are actually on the same latitude as London and should have the same timezone
 
yeah, Portugal is about as far west as you can get in Europe
 
12:20 PM
Yes, every fucker, except us :P
 
Spain, France and Italy have no excuse, at least the rest are the the east of the magical line
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13049079/realloc-again
'Wall-of-gruesome-code of the month' award?
 
The weird thing is, if I travel some 30 km North I change timezone to CEST (as opposed to WEST).
@MartinJames Oh gawd. Probably.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes there be latitudes you can travel along bouncing back and forth between time zones. It'd be mild fun
 
@KonradRudolph "I knew someone would come out of the woodworks to defend it, but I did not expect the defense to be this stupid. The above comment is beyond moronic, because [...] You really have to be Cargo Cult Moron Level 3 if [...] I am appalled at the level of idiocy on display."
 
12:22 PM
yay
shiny brand new debit card
 
@DeadMG post a pic on twitter
 
Tweet a picture of it!
 
na
 
Anne has moved stuff around and I cannot find globe:(
 
12:23 PM
@kbok Fair point
 
@thecoshman Looking at History, it appears France doesn't need an excuse to do anything slightly differently than the British.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes slow again :P
@LucDanton such as not running away :D
 
@thecoshman There's a part of the Chinese border where you need to adjust your clocks by three and a half hours (from Afghanistan's +4:30 to China's +8:00).
 
How do you run away from an island, duh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I feel sorry for Russians, they have seven time zones. I think that's the riht number of the top of my head
 
12:25 PM
@kbok One foot in front of the other?
 
@kbok well, swim away
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's a might difference
 
@thecoshman Six.
no, wait, seven
 
@thecoshman China uses a single timezone across their whole territory. Makes for noon (i.e. the time the sun is at the highest point) at 15.
 
I'll ask my local russian
 
Xeo
0
Q: C++ move/remove symbol

Tomasz GrobelnySuppose I have a .cpp file in which I have to include a third-party header file that declares some symbol (let's call it div). I do not need this symbol, but I need to define my own div symbol. However, the original symbol might be used by some other part of the header file. Is it possible to rem...

wtf is with this guy
 
12:27 PM
my local Russian says nine
 
he smoked some crack, obviously
 
and wiki agrees
from +03 to +12
 
@thecoshman France has 12.
Mind blown?
 
@thecoshman But a bunch of them are in double jumps.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What ?
 
12:29 PM
@kbok Yes, you guys have stuff in the Pacific and generally all over the place.
 
no, wait, I missed one
 
@DeadMG yeah, but still has nine distinct time zones
 
learn to count, damnit!
 
damn Wikipedia map doesn't clearly delineate where Russia actually ends
 
sbi
Just saying.
 
12:29 PM
lol
 
@DeadMG There's eight contiguous ones plus Kaliningrad.
 
sbi
Off to work again.
 
@sbi You drive-by oneboxer!
 
MY local Russian also informs me that Ireland is about the size of the Moscow region :O
@R.MartinhoFernandes he he he
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, yeah, that France.
 
12:30 PM
@thecoshman Russia's a big fuckin' place.
@R.MartinhoFernandes The Sun never sets on the British Empire
 
@DeadMG But you guys only have eight.
 
@DeadMG no shit sherlock
@DeadMG not so sure about that, I mean sure with all the crown dependencies and what not. But as a true empire, their is non
 
The 14 British Overseas Territories are territories under the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom, though they do not form part of it. They are remnants of the British Empire that have not acquired independence or have voted to remain British territories, unlike the Commonwealth realms. They share Queen Elizabeth II as their head of state, and each have their own respective internal leadership, with most being self-governing territories. The name "British Overseas Territory" was introduced by the British Overseas Territories Act 2002, and replaced the name British Dependent Territory, whi...
 
well, there aren't any empires anymore, not like the British/Ottoman/etc
 
12:33 PM
The Crown is not British, legally speaking, is it?
 
@LucDanton Yep.
 
ever since we punched the monarchs in the face, then "The Crown" basically became a synonym for the British Government in most cases
 
> Before 1981, the territories were known as Crown colonies.
Is 'crown dependencies' an abusive and/or archaic term?
> The Crown Dependencies of Jersey, Guernsey, and the Isle of Man are also under the sovereignty of the British Crown but have a different constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom.
That's not gonna net many timezones lol.
 
@thecoshman HTTPS.
 
12:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
but yeah, it seems like the Empire never formally ended, but the return of Hong Kong was the last major event for it
 
well, mostly, they just have very strange relationships
but it's not an abusive term, because they did vote to stay British or close to it
I think it mostly means that we're obliged to protect them, militarily
 
Not after they're dead.
 
Xeo
Hm. Any idea where I could find the standard text for template<class... Ts, int... Is> void f(); f<int,5>(); being ill-formed? I can't seem to find any quote that says packs are greedy and swallow all template arguments, irrespective of whether they'd actually fit.
 
@DeadMG indeed, despite them no longer being formally so, they are still very much dependent on us (just like Scotland)
 
you mean Ireland
Scotland is very much formally dependent on the British, being as they are, y'know, British
 
Xeo
12:41 PM
The best I could find was §14.5.3 [temp.variadic] "A template parameter pack is a template parameter that accepts zero or more template arguments.". :/
 
no, I mean Scotland, if I meant Ireland, I would have said Ireland
 
then I don't know WTF you're talking about
because Scotland plain doesn't make any sense whatsoever there
 
I am getting at the fact Scotland want to brake away and be their own state, even though they would not be able to support itself
 
Diego Garcia is a bit strange. The UK bought it, then rented to the US for a 'twofer' discount on nuclear weapons systems.
 
@DeadMG or in the case of Diego Garcia, evict the population for a US military base...
e;fb
 
12:42 PM
want to != are
and they don't even really want to- the majority isn't in favour of independence at last pollings
 
Last I heard, whilst still pushing for it, Scotland are not yet independent
 
@thecoshman Wait, they're moving?
 
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes aye, the feel it's a bit too sunny this far south
 
@Xeo There's a meatbag-powered standard quoting engine on Stack Overflow. :P
 
Xeo
12:44 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Heh
I'm searching for the quote to answer a question that tries to use the construct above
 
Oh.
You're a gear in the standard quoting engine.
 
Xeo
Aye
Which doesn't exactly stop me from asking anyways, but I have a feeling I'm just overlooking it. Or maybe the part I quoted really is the answer.
 
@Luc while not a definitive answer, this looks like a good hint: stackoverflow.com/a/13049285/46642
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but with out the standard sticking out your arse, how can you possibly be correct?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ooh. Setting the stage for an even more crushing disappointment!
 
12:52 PM
I did it again, I tried reading the code rather then slapping a fix on it an running :(
 
@thecoshman Protip: I'm always correct.
That would have been a pun in Portuguese, but just it's just some arrogant quip in English.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that probably should have been in quotes
 
Ben in quites?
 
:P
I can do science me!
 
What's the pun ?
 

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