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4:53 AM
@mickmackusa πŸ‘
 
5:38 AM
Sorry to bother you guys with an old post, but did this answer warrant a spam flag or a VLQ flag? I flagged it as spam, and then I think it got very quickly self-deleted marking the flag as helpful.
 
@user16217248 a mod deleted it, so spam worked. I think most users will qualify that a overly self-promotion and that warrants spam flags.
 
Oh, it was a mod, not a self-deletion.
^ Very low quality
 
 
2 hours later…
@Dharman Please bin this request. The question has been answered and the answerer also posted a comment asking for additional information.
 
Is this question actually suiteable for SO? IMHO it is not with the itend to learnb abotu security risks and how to fix them but to find a bypass to security reasons to not get banend in a game while doing malicios things
 
8:33 AM
@tacoshy they are allowed, somewhat, but general rules applies: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/262656/… so your specific example should be closed for lack of details.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:51 AM
@Lundin The question and answers look like they're referring to the official documentation.
 
@cigien Official or not, it's still a recommendation question.
To clarify, the OP is confused because they are reading the ARM core manual hoping to find info about hardware peripherals, which have nothing to do with the core. So essentially they are just asking where to find The Friendly Manual.
 
11:29 AM
Is that ^ even a programming question? I'm not exactly an expert of all the "Devops" fluff
 
No, it is not.
 
@Lundin I've close voted it as customer support
 
@rene Well... customer support isn't really a valid close reason. Because it is OK (and has been debated before) to use SO for customer support issues, under the condition that the question lives up to the same standards as any other SO question. There's a few commerical- and open source products using SO like that.
 
I'm actually concerned because the support page they linked says "If you have problems or questions after using the FortiGate Security Appliance 10 Gbps, you can search for information or ask questions by using Stack Overflow."
I don't see how any of their questions would be on-topic
 
@aynber yep, but you've read what @Lundin said: This is all fine.
@aynber someone should link them to meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/326374/…
 
11:45 AM
@aynber If you think it's a problem (for example if none of their support questions are ever programming-related) then you could post on meta about it. I think in some cases, CMs reach out to such companies. See this old thread: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/296059/…
 
It’s not fine, because they are referring non-programming customer support to SO.
 
I just went through the SO contact form
I don't know if posting on meta would be any faster
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship but that's their problem, not ours. We'll just keep closing those questions and people will at some point complain to the company that they cannot get help. It's not SE's job to tell people how to write their customer support section
 
No, but SE/SO can contact them. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255745/…
 
@aynber Contacting them directly is likely the fastest these days. CMs seem to only visit meta sporadically and they seem understaffed too.
 
11:49 AM
@Lundin That's what I figured
 
Or should we close those as "belongs on Super User"?
 
12:10 PM
Come on now ....
 
@Lundin why? Do you really want them to hate us?
VLQ content should just be deleted, possibly with a comment indicating where they can ask once they get their $h!+ together
 
'fternoon
 
12:27 PM
Howdy
 
1:02 PM
@Jason You forgot to cast a close vote yourself :)
 
1:23 PM
Is "submit a bug report" an answer? Question here: stackoverflow.com/q/1168574
 
@GeneralGrievance Looks like we should just close the question instead
 
@GeneralGrievance "This is a bug" is a valid answer
 
Whole thing go bye-bye
 
Yeah, I guess I can infer that the answer was saying, "this is a bug."
 
1:49 PM
"This is a bug" questions should ideally explain why however, by making references to documentation. Otherwise it's just some dude's opinion.
 
2:22 PM
I think I might need to make a meta post. I keep seeing Q's like this one (10K link) where they are getting down voted into oblivion and manually deleted. I agree the Q is not good, I was the first close voter after all, but it also doesn't really deserve a -4 and manual deletion. How is the OP supposed to recover from that? Should I bring this up on meta?
It feels excessive especially since the OP was trying to improve the post.
 
if you want to be pitch forked on Meta, sure. I agree deletion is a tad too aggressive but that is how the C and C++ tag (t)rolls.
 
I wouldn't paint the tags with that brush. I see this happen a lot and it's almost always the same handful of users doing it.
 
I don't use a brush. It is all spray painted.
 
@cigien That was one of my worries. It's seems to be a few very active individuals and I don't want to tar and feather them on meta if I can help it.
 
@NathanOliver well, it's not a guarantee you won't get tarred and feathered for this :)
 
2:32 PM
meh, I've got thick skin.
 
I'm not sure how useful a meta post would be in this regard. Do you have some specific outcomes in mind?
 
@NathanOliver I honestly don't see what is valuable in that question. Its current revision won't get it re-opened.
 
@NathanOliver speaking of - any sceenshots for the reputationally challenged? :)
 
@cigien I just would like it if we gave the OP a chance to improve the post. They can't really do that if it gets delete right away
@rene There isn't anything valuable. I just feel it was excessively moderated. Was looking into some options into how we could change that behavior
 
@NathanOliver it has been discussed before on meta, for example: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/337263/…
 
2:37 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine < 10K link: i.stack.imgur.com/WJfCf.png
 
@rene thanks for that. I guess I'll just leave it as is. If I find something that is salvageable I can always put in a request here.
 
@NathanOliver I agree completely with that - salvageable questions, especially ones that will roomba, shouldn't be deleted. Certainly not minutes after the Q is closed. I'm asking what you hope to achieve with a meta post. A best case scenario, and I'm being optimistic here, would be overwhelming consensus that these deletions are excessive. And then what? I highly doubt the involved users would care at all. The only way I see them stopping is if mods make them stop, and I don't see that happening.
 
@NathanOliver you can only bring that up on Meta successfully if you manage to proof that (potential) valuable content is being deleted. Because that is a sin that is unforgivable. I doubt the example you bring up here is the question that is going to convince the meta-cabal. So unless you're in for some meta-abuse I would wait until you've found a better example. That should only take 6 to 8 minutes I guess ...
 
@cigien I would hope they would see the writing on the wall meta and tone it down a little. Just a PSA if you will
 
2:41 PM
@NathanOliver miiight be worth a try, though, but I'd really go with a better question if you choose to do so - that one's... not good, frankly speaking.
 
I can wait for that. The current Q isn't a great hill to die on
 
yeaaah, definitely not the one. And in such cases if the complaint has any chance to stand on Meta, the question in question [pun intended] should be of at least a decent quality. Otherwise... it's unlikely to go well, at least in my experience following such discussions around.
 
3:12 PM
@NathanOliver It's happened before meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/423634 and no toning down seems to have resulted, so I doubt trying again will help.
 
@cigien I though I had seen that, just couldn't find it. Thanks
 
I'm generally in that same boat. Trust me, we're not happy to see when Meta bandwagons a question to deletion
 
Yeah, I don't think deletion was warranted here. The question would have Roomba'd (although granted that is hard to tell without the user script) and was closed... there's no need to delete it 18 minutes after closure
Especially considering OP was actively editing it/responding to feedback
If I were a mod, I would like to think that I would undelete this post, and maybe leave a friendly comment saying to give askers a but more of a chance to improve their question.
 
FWIW, this is the underlying problem to the deletion thrashing issue we used to have
 
Sorry, 16 minutes after closure
Honestly, even at -4 there should probably be a 30 min or 1 hour timer before a closed question can be delete voted even by 20k users. That's easier to implement well than dealing with the voting problem here
 
dbc
4:08 PM
Screen shot of the day candidate? i.stack.imgur.com/4B6e2.jpg (and from the same question: i.stack.imgur.com/BBMgI.jpg)
 
classic windows UI :hearteyes:
 
@dbc Windows XP? With IE6?
@TylerH 95?
 
dbc
Windows Server 2003.
People who were born when it was released were first able to vote two years ago.
 
Are you saying we're getting old?
 
covers ears lalalalalalalalalala
 
dbc
4:18 PM
I am saying that I am getting old.
 
old is just a state of mind
 
dbc
It's a state of various other parts as well.
 
It could be XP or a Windows Server 2003 version. Windows 98 was the first version to have the desktop icon on the task bar that looked like an actual desk top, but it was always square, not tilted, until Windows XP. Windows Server 2003 came out later than XP, but would be more likely to have the classic UI than an XP consumer installation
Windows Vista changed the icon entirely and it went away in Windows 7
( it became the still-present 'show desktop' section at the far-right of the taskbar)
Well, I don't know if it's there in Windows 11
 
Looks like Windows 2k to me. Grey bar and grey Start button
 
Well, at least it gets to make edits.
 
4:32 PM
And they all came with IE6, the bane of my existence for years...
@TylerH IE11 was on in Windows 11. It was removed in Win10 a couple of years ago
That looks like IE6 or 7
 
4:57 PM
I would like to bring up this question, specifically . Should they be made synonyms after all? If not, is it worth writing up usage guidance for ?
 
IMHO yes, both ought to be synonyms of nullability.
One issue with that question is that it originally asked for a different thing
 
But now it asks for this thing, and not longer for the different thing
 
Yeah, but the voting (and particularly the downvotes) was probably at least partly based on the original bad suggestion
which is to say that probably it might be a good idea to ask again
although note that it's the Friday of a US holiday weekend today so maybe ask on Tuesday :-p
I'm half-tempted to just do the synonym, though, honestly.
 
5:13 PM
Ask here? Or repost the question?
 
Repost the question
 
And it won't just get closed as a dupe?
 
Definitely note that you're re-asking because the voting on the original was muddied by a different question being asked originally
...also shoot me a link and I'll hammer the old one as a dupe of the new one, that ought to prevent a dupe closure :-p
 
Sounds good
But I should wait till Tuesday right?
 
that'd be my recommendation; Friday in general is pretty quiet on SO and especially when the Americans are likely to be away, so it'd get more attention on Tuesday
 
@gre_gor Eh, I still think that post has some useful comments & answers
 
5:52 PM
@Machavity I'm talking about the desktop icon on the taskbar
@Machavity You can get that in any version of Windows, even 10 (again, don't know about 11, since I haven't used it).
it's a user preference
 
(This is the desktop icon I am referencing: i.stack.imgur.com/H6VOT.jpg)
 
6:13 PM
Well, that was decently fast. I expected the CM team to take several days to respond to me
> Thanks for reaching out and letting us know about this. We agree and will reach out to IBM to request they adjust there page.
 
meh
 
@user16217248 why would someone want to change the value here manually anyway? Is there any reason?
If the environment returns undefined, I don't want an application changing that value to null before showing me the output, or vice versa
And the environment will already tell you whether something is undefined vs null...
 
@TylerH I'm not entirely sure what you're asking
 
i mean
undefined is for when the value is undefined
null is for when the value is null
 
I can see equating undefined to null if I'm just checking to see if a value exists. Sometimes if(typeof var != 'undefined' and var != null) can be a bit unwieldy. That's why I wrote an empty function for javascript
 
6:29 PM
@user16217248 Well, OP is asking there in that question "what should I use for empty values? Null or undefined?" But the system already picks something for you; you can't change it. The best you can do is something like if { x returns undefined } then { return null } ...which is lying
So my wonderment is "what is the actual use case here"?
If there is an interesting valid reason for wanting to be able to choose whether a value returns null vs undefined based on one's preference, I may consider that the question is worth keeping and bin the del-pls request.
However if there is not (which I currently suspect), then I'm inclined to agree that the question has no value in keeping around, even with the existing answer.
If I'm expecting a value and I get a null response, that means whatever variable I am looking for the value in has not had the value assigned yet. If I get undefined that means the variable hasn't even been declared yet. Two different problems; two different solutions
 
@aynber good chance it didn't need a CM. Not sure if Animuson still handles tickets but he is fast. And knows what we want to happen.
 
7:02 PM
^ is questions for where to download a library on-topic?
 
Official locations of some library or tool are "not what the close reason was intended for"
The problem here is that Microsoft in its very finite wisdom keeps friggin changing the download location
 
The top answer is also more of a how-to, so the Q&A still seems to have some value.
 
I added a wiki lock and trimmed a few answers
 
Cool, thanks
 
7:26 PM
@TylerH I just thought one of the comments was useful, as in null was for like a value that is nothing, and that undefined was for the absence of any value at all. A 'use case' could be differentiating the 2.
 
7:40 PM
Yeah but my point is the system will already differentiate for you
any JS environment will return one or the other depending whether it is... one or the other
 
there's certainly some... opinions out there on what a function should return in various scenarios that may differ from what naturally occurs given interacting with the dom or whatever else, but at that point we're talking about users converting the expected return value into an unexpected one because "reasons"
 
7:54 PM
@TylerH donning my SME hat for a second - as it is currently formulated, the question doesn't add any value. Without knowing the specifics of the application being developed, it is impossible to provide an answer that is not opinion-based. The usage of either null or undefined is highly contextual: whether one works with DOM (functions there typically return null on no value), or just with ECMAScript (functions there typically return undefined on no value); what the APIs involved [1/2]
expect; whether one is prepared to deal with the "billion-dollar mistake" of typeof null === 'object' (read: is the overhead worth it?); whether the application integrates with RESTful APIs returning JSON objects (and JSON schema only has a notion of null, not undefined), etc. As posed, the question just asks for preferences. I also find none of the comments useful as they all express arbitrary interpretations, except for maybe Bergi's. Even so, it is inaccurate [2/3]
(albeit the closest it gets to the spec in terms of the standard) as the only semantic difference between the types is defined in the standard as follows: undefined is "when a variable has not been assigned a value" and null is what "represents the intentional absence of any object value" (the "inaccuracy" part is that null only represents absence of object values). Given all of the above, I believe the request under discussion should be sustained. [3/3]
 
🚽
 
8:14 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yeah, it seems no one thus far can think of a good reason to do it or keep the question about it around, so I'll VTD it
 
@TylerH yeah, wish I could cast one too, still a bit to go :) I'd consider keeping it around if it had a stellar answer (referencing the spec, the objective trade-offs each type has, all the different circumstances where one would want to use one over the other, etc). But in the current form, IMO, the Q&A is nothing more than a yet another "which indentation style do I use?" Reddit-like post.
 
ah nice, yeah, less than a thousand to go. Good luck :-)
 
Oh, wow, 3000 upvotes on an obvious duplicate. I'm disappointed. How was it left open for that long?
 
@TylerH thanks :) will be glad to join in on the culling of crap once that happens
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship Well, it wasn't an obvious duplicate, I would argue, unless you are a power user here
 
8:22 PM
@TylerH But they ask for the exact same thing, worded almost the exact same way?
 
To be obvious that it's a duplicate it has to have some kind of indicators that there is another question out there that is older, better-phrased as a canonical, has more views and answers, etc.
 
Or, well, perhaps you're right. The target duplicate specifically considers strings.
 
The score and viewcount and age of this one could easily make someone think that this is the canonical
 
But it's been many years. Strange that nobody figured this out earlier, and cared to do something about it.
 
it went through 5 close unsuccessful review cycles dating as far back as 2013 - it's not true nobody tried
 
8:26 PM
Yeah, I see it now, but still. Maybe some comments got removed, for some reason.
Still a very long time with very many votes.
 
Indeed
Ideally they would be merged
actually that's GPT generated
 
Well, yes :-)
 
@TylerH These should be merged, right?
 
Possibly, ideally, but requires a closer look (and a mod to handle)
 
8:31 PM
definitely can be merged, but also require heavy culling. My eyes hurt just from looking at most of the answers...
 
Yeah, I would certainly leave it to a JavaScript SME moderator
 
9:23 PM
 
 
2 hours later…

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