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01:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

01:01
this is dead
@Raynos wake up
@ChadScira oi What do you want
@Raynos whats the best way to run your node.js application as a daemon
Daemon? What is that?
I run node through thingy
well like have it run the background
thingy?
01:04
oh
thats for osx
right?
linux. or *unix
that should run on mac
oh cool
What did you acctually have in mind?
That just restarts your webserver when it crashes and does hot reloading
Oh and of course those notices don't magically work unless you use their hackery
I just npm installed and did supervisor app.js that's all
 
1 hour later…
02:25
I hate flash. So much.
user1385191
:/
It's the most unstable platform on linux ever. Every flash website I go to crashes randomly.
user1385191
adobe annoy me for sure
Is it just my computer?
user1385191
there's some good people working there, and that's why as3 is so good
user1385191
02:31
but the bulk of their product line is crap
I dont get why flash itself is so unstable thought :\
user1385191
I've never really touched linux, so I can't say
I think its the whole "Linux is not a valued platform so were not going to fully support it" thing
I hate it when ROI comes before OS
user1385191
^
user1385191
I've been told I won't have any problems finding a job in Flash, but I still hammer JavaScript into my head just in case
02:35
Oh what do you want to do with a career path?
I'm personally hoping javascript picks up 50% of flash use cases
And that the other uses cases of flash are embedded as videos rather then flash files.
user1385191
I'm an Flash app developer, but I'm looking into web apps as well
user1385191
there's a job opening downtown to make flash games too if I'm up for it
You know if flash actually worked well in linux, i'd be all for it.
Whats your opinion of asking a user to use a plugin?
user1385191
there's a difference between asking and requiring
A game can be developed just as well in javascript.
user1385191
02:43
oh, I thought we were talking Flash in general
user1385191
JS doesn't don't have the speed, power, or APIs that Flash do right now
They dont have the API
in chrome theres enough speed & poewr
power*
user1385191
then there's the issue of OOP in JS
user1385191
and fragmentation between browsers
Thats just a paradigm shift
I see no issue with OOP in JS
user1385191
02:44
brb
Classical inheritance is not needed in dynamic languages.
The fact we dont have strict typing makes inheritance different
Browser fragmentation isnt much of an issue with IE9 / FF4 / Chrome. Your giving your users enough support.
Refusal to install flash vs refusal to update to a modern browser is the same on that front
I do have to agree on lack of API and ease of animation / drawing tools
user1385191
03:28
I love programmatical animation
user1385191
if JS had something like GTween (it kind of does to an extent)
user1385191
that's part of why I'm going to build my own set of UI functions this summer
user1385191
(though I like this along with its creator)
03:52
can i put php in a js file and change the extension to .php?
user1385191
bad idea
user1385191
bad bad bad bad bad bad bad
oh hey matt
and y is it bad?
will the server accept .js.php?
user1385191
you should really take a look at this first
user1385191
1
A: Simulate left and right arrow key event with javascript

Matt McDonaldYou're looking for something that will dispatch an event. Here's something that should work: function fireKey(el) { //Set key to corresponding code. This one is set to the left arrow key. var key = 37; if(document.createEventObject) { var eventObj = document.createEventOb...

03:53
:D
lol
user1385191
you want to poll the server for data via AJAX
user1385191
using PHP, you handle the request and echo something back
happy 14 pts!!!!
user1385191
then in JS, you handle the data from the request
but a js like document.getelementById('hi').value = '<?php echo $x ?>' would be posable
right?
@silvinci what do u thing?
04:20
;_;
Write your server & client shit properly. You p eople make me sad.
You really should not hard code them together like that.
@MattMcDonald isn't tweening just moving an object from x to y?
@Raynos You take two states of the object, and the machine interpolates all of the steps between them
Flash gives you an GUI environment to do this without any coding required; nothing that sophisticated exists for JavaScript
04:35
@YiJiang I guess so. But then again there aren't any GUI environments for javascrirpt
@YiJiang does that mean that in flash I can just give it state t and state t + 1 and ask it to just interpolate it for me? :D I guess it needs to know how its rendered at t and t + 1
user1385191
04:55
what I'm referring to is programmatic animation
user1385191
it's pretty much what jQ's animate does with easing and whatnot
@MattMcDonald Whats wrong with jq animate?
user1385191
you're tied to a library
user1385191
in flash, you just import gtween and call the function
How is that any less tied to a library?
Import jQuery or import gtween? What's the difference?
user1385191
05:02
size
That's like saying "You can't use flixel! Your tied to a library"
user1385191
I want to import a few functions instead of hundreds
Does it matter that much? I think including jQuery from CDN is free.
Besides you'll use it for your dom manipulation
Or are you going to use the canvas / svg ?
user1385191
I haven't touched canvas
user1385191
or any HTML 5 api
05:10
Oh well then you'd be rendering through the DOM and you should totally use jQuery
You wern't actually planning to manipulate the DOM with raw JS were you?
Hello all
@Raynos hello how are you doing?
Im ok
user1385191
@Raynos you know how I operate :)
05:19
@MattMcDonald why?
user1385191
1
A: If you're already using a framework, should you never write "plain vanilla" js?

Matt McDonaldThere's always something to learn when you're solving problems with pure JS as opposed to having external code do it for you. In the long run, it's more maintainable because it's your code. It's not going to change. You know what it does. That's where the value of solving your own problems really...

Thats different from "dont use a framework"
user1385191
I like the challenge, honestly
"it's more maintainable because it's your code" A lie. It's less maintainable because its your code
maintainability is based on other people maintaining your code
@MattMcDonald well "challenge" is the wrong word. Writing your own version of jQuery that is very modular is a challenge
user1385191
heh
05:23
Fixing old browsers is not a challenge as much of a tedious chore
"I can't do that because browser N does something completely different"
"Cross-browser scripting in pure JS really heightens your problem-solving ability along with your understanding of the language."
It heights your understanding of obscure bugs in old browsers and how to hack them
its nothing to do with understanding javascript
29
A: What are some empirical technical reasons not to use jQuery?

rspI'll answer about jQuery but those are the same arguments that I've heard against using YUI, Prototype, Dojo, Ext and few others. Main arguments that I've heard: file size, which in fact is 29KB - probably smaller than the logo on an average website and can be served from Google's CDN which is ...

user1385191
I really enjoy talking with you
I argue aggressively and am far too opinionated. That's sarcasm right?
user1385191
ugh, I hate the way he writes his answers.
user1385191
reading through the answers, I see "they" a lot
Is using getElementById faster? Yes. And of course everyone always checks the parentNode to catch when Blackberry 4.6 returns nodes that are no longer in the document, right? jQuery does. And everyone handles the case where IE and Opera return items by name instead of ID, right? jQuery does.
I think thats the fundamental part of why I use $("#foo") instead of document.getElementById("foo")
05:28
@Raynos Of course, if you strip away the DOM and the environment, then all you're left with is a rather simple scripting language with a C like syntax and prototypal inheritance
@YiJiang yes. Thats what we have.
I dont think learning to defend againts browser bugs & quirks is learning javascript
user1385191
right, it's learning defensive programming
user1385191
and you've got good reason to point that out
Well not really. You shouldn't have to defend againts things you should be able to take for granted.
I shouldnt have to do Math.round(2) to make sure its an actual integer.
user1385191
that's a pitfall of dynamic typing though
user1385191
05:31
in strict typing, you don't have those problems
I would classify it as legacy programming
@MattMcDonald no. you don't have to do Math.round(2). That's the point. We shouldn't have to check for other ridiculiouos bugs either
I phrased it badly
user1385191
just one reason I don't envy webdevs
Are you suggesting we should stop using Internet Exploder? :)
user1385191
I'd hate to work at a job where it's "PUMP THIS SITE OUT IN A WEEK USING ANY TOOLS OR HACKS AT YOUR DISPOSAL OR ELSE YOU'RE FIRED"
@squawknull hell yeah
@MattMcDonald no I dont want that. But I don't want to micro manage cross browser support. The big thing for me is that jQuery updates itself to handle IE9 bugs. I do not want to go back to an old website and update it manually to handle IE9 bugs. I want to update the jquery version.
user1385191
05:34
I'm just describing how the web market is here
@MattMcDonald That sucks. Get a good job. I'm all for building for maintainability
user1385191
I have a good job :)
At my work, we have to support IE7, we just got out of supporting IE6, because it takes years for us to upgrade anything!
user1385191
people call me crazy when I say I'd spend a month on a client site instead of a week
@squawknull IE9, FF4, Chrome, Opera 11, Safari 5. Nothing else should be supported
05:36
Luckily, everybody just plugs their ears and pretends Chrome, Safari, Firefox, etc. don't exist.
@MattMcDonald well if 2 weeks of that was hand coding stuf you could have done in jQuery because your "stubborn" then thats right.
That would be true, but in our company, our 15,000 users all have IE7 today
user1385191
the thing is: IE 6 has about 5x the market share Opera does
It's all intranet users of our applications, not public sites....
If you don't have any good reasons to justify not using jQuery apart from "personal preference" and it takes a significant amount of time longer to accomplish your task then well your doing it wrong
user1385191
05:37
it's a different scenario when it's on personal time
user1385191
if it's on company time, we'll see
@squawknull I feel your pain
@MattMcDonald do you think you can use raw js instead of jQuery without performance loss?
user1385191
I don't code for performance
user1385191
I write clean, readable code
No
I mean performance as in development time
05:39
I code for cheeseburgers
user1385191
oh of course you're going to spend far more time
Yes clean & readable and maintainable code is a must.
user1385191
that's a given
Thats why I recommend jQuery because other developers can come along and understand it
user1385191
what's great (and horrible) about it is "designers" like my classmates can pick it up really easily
05:40
If you write your own custom utility helper functions its a lot more dificult for other developers to understand your code
@MattMcDonald of course you can write bad code with jQuery
but if its going to take more time then why not use jQuery
That honestly hasn't been my experience. I've always had to teach new developers about jquery. It makes sense once you "get it", but it kind of turns javascript on its side. Most of my devs have done a lot of javascript, but no jquery.
user1385191
I'm the opposite
user1385191
I started doing jQuery and only jQuery
They haven't let us do much ajax at work, because of accessibility/section 508 challenges with ajax...
I appreciate you should learn raw JS and use it. But there comes a point where you have a good enough understanding of how jQuery works under the hood that you can use the abstraction or ease of development
user1385191
05:42
so you're mostly form POST/GET scripting then
So, we didn't have a lot of places we can use jquery....
yep
And we have to be careful about dynamically manipulating the dom
because that can really screw up screen readers for the deaf
@squawknull wait whats accessibility/section 508 ? You have to comply with that? that sucks :(
user1385191
I don't think I'm at that level of understanding yet where I can confidently say I really know the DOM well
i work for the federal government, it basically means that disabled persons have to be able to access the app too
or else, they can sue us
@MattMcDonald I know what you mean. I still dont know how to do raw custom event handling
05:43
so, apps have to work with screen readers, that basically speak the content of the page
user1385191
I wish the w3c would get their butts in gear and get the MutationEvents like NodeInserted and DOMContentLoaded working and implemented
I run into the guy who was the HTML5 spec lead once in awhile. I'll let him know... :)
they are
user1385191
because as3 already has those in Event.ADDED_TO_STAGE/ADDED and Event.REMOVED_FROM_STAGE/REMOVED + Event.COMPLETE
in chrome / ff etc
05:45
He shows up at our local ruby user group sometimes
user1385191
I read in the spec today they consider them deprecated
oh.
@squawknull when then I'd use progressive enhancements and only serve raw HTML to screen readers
user1385191
10 hours ago, by Matt McDonald
Warning! The MutationEvent interface was introduced in DOM Level 2 Events, but has not yet been completely and interoperably implemented across user agents...Thus, this specification describes mutation events for reference and completeness of legacy behavior, but deprecates the use of both the MutationEvent interface and the MutationNameEvent interface
we do some stuff like that, it just complicates things a bit
some of our apps allow you to select an "accessibility mode" that shuts things off
that screw up screen readers
user1385191
I'm sure you have to fill up your alt/title attributes for screen readers too
05:47
yeah
Can you detect screen readers ?
even the ones that don't make sense, or else the testing tools blow up
yes, sort of
user1385191
well there's aural css
sometimes they're just plugins for IE, so you can't in those cases
but sometimes they identify themselves
05:49
@squawknull ... plugins for IE.
user1385191
user1385191
one of the few good april fool's jokes
I need to catch up on those minutes
user1385191
ha, their navbar functions like a flash menu circa-1999
user1385191
except it doesn't crash because it's JS
user1385191
05:54
sadface
It's retro
user1385191
but I'm happy again because the jibbering FAQ is back up
whats jibbering?
user1385191
that FAQ I linked to in the JS tag wiki
06:14
Wait firefox next in 3 months?
Holla everyone
hello @OmeidHerat
hi @experimentX
how you going ?
well i am doing good, how are you doing?
tnx i am good too
I want to create a calander should i go with List or Table ?
in terms of good practice @MattMcDonald ?
user1385191
06:21
what?
I want to create a calendar, should i us ul or table ?
user1385191
the behavior you're describing is table-like, but can be accomplished with floated divs
will, i want to make a year long todo list !
it will have day, hour, plan, outcome
i can't design table quite well with css if it has rowspan and colspan.
this is how i am doing it at the moment
<?php

for($i=0; date('d')+$i <= cal_days_in_month(CAL_GREGORIAN, date('m'), date('Y')); $i++)
{
echo '<tr class="'.( ($i & 1) ? 'row1' : 'row2' ).'"><td rowspan=25 class="day" >'.(date('d')+$i).'</td></tr>';

for($ih=1;$ih <= 24;$ih++)
{
echo '<tr class="'.( ($ih & 1) ? 'dark' : 'light' ).' '.( ($i & 1) ? 'row1' : 'row2' ).'">

<td class="hour">'.$ih.'</td>
<td>plan</td>
<td>done</td>

</tr>';
}
}
?>
^ this for one month.
user1385191
sorry, I'm going to have to check out for the night
user1385191
too late
06:29
O.o
its alright don't worry
user1385191
rest assured, it can be done with divs
ok i will do it with divs.
well that would be better
are you trying to create a calendar sidebar
??
07:02
no @experimentX, i want to create a planing app
Oh! that would be great
yeah i will show you when its done
sure ..
Maan I hit 3K rep
awesome!
keep it up man !
thanks man ..
 
5 hours later…
Xeo
Xeo
11:41
it seems i was invited in here.. who and why? I aint got anything to do with JS ;)
@Xeo Not entirely sure, hmmm, lemme check who called you
No, the transcript doesn't show anything
12:02
hi
Morning.
 
2 hours later…
Aji
Aji
13:36
knock knock..
14:07
hi there
Aji
Aji
14:18
Hello
Anyone have experience in jQuery Mobile?
noob here..i have a doubt..
Aji
Aji
14:42
nobody ? ;(
Never used the mobile version, but what's your doubt?
Aji
Aji
Its related to JQM.
i want the thumbnail image on the right side..
literally stuck here..im having some arabic text text,its right to left.so the thumbnail should be on right side
is there any way that i could make it work? im an absolute n00b
14:59
I'm not quite sure, but it seems like it could be solved with CSS.
Aji
Aji
yes i was trying out that..but it seems im out of luck..i have inherited from the thumbnail class and altered the position of the image,but it is not applying,s i think this has something to do with JS than css
any thoughts on this?
Inspect the element and see if it has its positioning set by the style attribute of the thumbnail rather than its classes.
If so, it's JS doing it, otherwise you'll be able to do it with CSS.
Aji
Aji
if i inspect,there is not much style element for positioning..
float: left;
margin-right: 10px
float: left;
margin-right: 10px
<-- only this
@TVK can u help me a bit in this?
Sorry for the slow responses, helping my girlfriend clean her laptop's heatsink. :p
Hmm.
Do you have any live version of your page?
15:16
The thumbnail is an <img>?
Aji
Aji
yes
u can inspect this page
Hmm, and you can't place the image right of the text in the HTML I assume?
I'm doing that.
Aji
Aji
yes
even if i change the style element on the page with firebug it is not aligning right
Yeah, even with absolute positioning it's not doing much.
Aji
Aji
yeah
15:21
Can you give the a tag a custom style value?
Aji
Aji
i have done it too..
inherited from the class of the current image and added my values
I mean without Firebug.
Aji
Aji
and tried adding the new class with only MY style
Since if you can do it in your site's code, you can just give it a background image (which will be the thumbnail) and position it right.
Aji
Aji
yes
15:23
You do have to be able to give a different style per tag then, though.
Aji
Aji
if i do it,the list hieght is messed up
What CSS did you use then?
Aji
Aji
tried max-height of the image..obviously..wothout luck
A background-image doesn't affect any height.
Aji
Aji
this is the html
<li class="home"><img src="img/login.png" class="cellicon"/><a href="<?php echo $this->base_url;?>?action=login">مساعدة</a></li>
.cellicon{ float:right; }
15:27
Can't you just put the img after the a?
Aji
Aji
tried it also
Why doesn't that work then?
Aji
Aji
it is in the left side even then
i think im missing something.
What if you place it in the a tag?
Aji
Aji
in the <a> tag?
15:30
Yeah.
<li class="home"><a href="<?php echo $this->base_url;?>?action=login">مساعدة <img src="img/login.png" class="cellicon"/></a></li>
Aji
Aji
nope,its still in the left side
Hmm, can't you just convince Arab people to read the right way? :p
Aji
Aji
lol
i was getting lot of of problems with this rtl
btw,saw your site,looks very clean..
Thanks. : )
Aji
Aji
need to download the droid app :)
15:34
: )
Aji
Aji
but there is a problem with cyanogen and headset i guess
How so?
Aji
Aji
my headset doesnt work,but not sure about the voulme button
I'm on CyanogenMod as well but never had any issue with it.
Are you sure it's Cyanogen and not the headset itself?
Aji
Aji
im using 7
15:35
Me too.
Aji
Aji
yes..
#31.
Aji
Aji
i have read it on the dev blog
Ah, alright.
Aji
Aji
bug on LG GT540 with cyanogen 7
15:36
It should get solved sooner or later then. They're still nightlies after all. :p
Aji
Aji
this has done by a russian guy called mur4ik..he says there is a problem...but it will be fixed soon..as far im loving CM
yeah
Hi guy
@TVK, could you take a look at beta.dontcare4free.tk and tell me what you think about it?
Aji
Aji
@TVK solved it in a bad way.. \o/
@DontCare4Free I think proxy error
"Could not handle GET". Might want to actually write your server
Aji
Aji
15:42
+1
@Raynos Hmm, it seems like it works some times
Aji
Aji
got it now
@DontCare4Free Ooh, seems fancy. : ) I'm curious if it won't be too uneasy with big content panes, though.
@Aji How'd you solve it? :p
@DontCare4Free give it some css
@DontCare4Free I would personally have had the content div fade into a loading bar div and out again with new content
Of course it needs some more graphical attention, but I assume that you just wanted to present the concept.
15:46
rather then having the header expand with a loading bar
@Raynos True, I am not so sure about how to do that though, since I primarily do desktop application development
fade out the content. fade in a loading div.
@Raynos okay, I'll try
Aji
Aji
@TVK left: 95%; ;)
then fade out the loading div and fade in the new content
15:48
@Aji VERY risky solution for mobile development. :p
Aji
Aji
yes..im dumb
i guess .em will work better
With that solution, the image will be on a different spot with any different resolution. So it can either fall off the screen over overlap the text. :p
Aji
Aji
oh..fcuk..
(@DontCare4Free I actually like the loadingbar like this, though.)
@Raynos done
15:52
I'd say now the size of the div swaps too quickly.
@TVK yeah, gonna set static width of that div
Maybe you can fade out the content and place the loadingbar in it, but keep the size. Then after the new content is placed in it, resize the div with an animation.
Even if it's only for the height.
uploaded new one with static width
1 XHR, 3 XHR, 5 XHR, 11 XHR, 21 XHR
@TVK I'm not completely sure about how to do that
@Raynos what?
15:54
Also the server doesnt check for hashbang urls it just loads the "home" page and then doex XHR
@Raynos true
@DontCare4Free Every time I change section the amount of XHR increases
@Raynos it does?
43, 88
@DontCare4Free Set the CSS height as the offsetHeight, then after the new content is placed, use JQuery's animate to change the height back to auto.
Make sure the CSS of the div includes overflow:hidden;.
15:56
@TVK k, gonna look at it ASAP
If animate doesn't work well enough, put the content within an extra div and get the offsetHeightof that one to animate to.
Dinner now. BRB
01:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

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