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12:09 AM
What do you guys think about this question? For me it is a new #1 for the Hall of Fame of bad coders. That user didnt wanted to program a website so he thought he can shortcut the coding process by displaying only images with the website content incl. the etxt.
 
12:29 AM
@tacoshy Waaaay back in the day, image maps used to be a pretty popular way to make web sites.
As for the question...well, there's often things to be done about image size, but without the images, it's...kinda hard to advise there.
I've cut megabytes off of app's size with no perceivable loss in quality solely through image optimization techniques.
Reduce resolution, serve different resolutions depending on display density, recompress all your images, use different formats (replace everything with webp if you can), etc.
 
@RyanM looks like I read that shortcut thing the wrong way...
 
Another good option is eliminating all the images by replacing them with text. :-)
 
@CodyGray I once agreed to images of text...when the designer wanted like 16 different fonts on one screen.
 
Oh, a better link than W3Schools, @RyanM: stackoverflow.com/questions/5249502/…
@RyanM And you were trying to use performance degradation as a backdoor means of convincing them that their idea was wrongheaded?
 
That screen was...a challenge to optimize. It had a lot of bitmap pixels to load and manage.
No, I got it working. It did a lot of tricks. There was, in fact, performance degradation at first.
 
12:36 AM
Sigh, I guess this is where such thing exists as a programmer being too good at their job.
Now, there's no performance degradation, but there's a terrible UI and a lot of unhappy users.
 
It eventually did get replaced with something more reasonable, in part because of the UI and in part because it had a lot of limitations in order to achieve that performance.
 
I know you can do many optimization things like using srcset. However that coding still is fundementally flawed if you want to replace text with images that contain text. Poor users that need screen readers or need to icnrease the font-size...
but this is a good question as meme
 
Screen readers are solvable for using accessibility attributes. Increasing font-size...well, that's never worked very well anyway, better to use modern browser zoom that just emulates a smaller screen size.
It's still, of course, a bad idea.
@CodyGray that's...not a great question...
 
 
2 hours later…
2:50 AM
@richardec Here is an example of a moderator disagreeing with the majority reason on a non-duplicate vote.
@CodyGray I'd take that class. Though I'm not a biologist, so it might go poorly.
@blackgreen If you want to annoy the moderators, flag posts saying "this looks like homework" or something like that.
(yes, people do this.)
 
3:13 AM
Time to go to sleep
 
 
1 hour later…
4:20 AM
re: AP - I wasn't aware of this American concept but Wikipedia straightened me out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Placement
 
 
1 hour later…
5:41 AM
there seems to be some sort of issue with metasmoke's autoflagging facility at the moment, so manual flags on the spam wave will be appreciated. Thanks for your patience
3
 
6:06 AM
Yikes, lots of SD reports.
 
@RyanM Most of them aren't. The optimization for pearls is not yet complete.
@RyanM To quibble: it doesn't always work that way. You only get additional reasons added to a bulleted list if everyone closes using one of the "community-specific" close reasons. Otherwise, if it's the network-wide close reasons that are in play, it is as richardec said: the mod's choice will win out.
@RyanM Well, yeah... The idea was always that it would be open and accessible to both science and non-science majors. The only prerequisite would be something like basic intro biology (even high school level, hopefully), as that should give the student enough working knowledge of the fundamentals of molecular biology to understand the course content (i.e., "central dogma of molecular biology).
@RyanM Personally, my favorite way to annoy the moderators is to flag a question or answer saying, "this is a duplicate", but not give or allow any clue as to what it might be a duplicate of. That way, the mod has to go searching for a similar post themselves. What fun!
 
Thanks for the idea. :-)
 
@CodyGray How about linking to the very post one is flagging? ;)
 
@JeanneDark Nah, that's neither annoying or confusing. It's a straightforward decline.
 
6:22 AM
Well, briefly confusing, perhaps.
 
@RyanM I'm no longer confused by the cluelessness of flaggers. This will surely pass for you, too. :-)
 
Hey @CodyGray I haven't missed an email from you regarding ex-boss + x-box stuffs, have I?
 
6:39 AM
some high-profile spam in metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/flagging/logs/unflagged still but my impression is that autoflagging is somehow recovering
 
@tripleee my guess is that the rapid re-reporting was confusing it?
but I'm not familiar with the internals of autoflagging
 
@RyanM I'll try that next time I get a declined flag :)))
 
How can this answer be handled: stackoverflow.com/a/68999475/1974224?
it adds nothing to the already existing answers, however has upvotes
downvoting won't help much, deleting it is not possible as long as the score is positive, a custom mod flag seems too much
 
@Cristik custom modflag, clearly link to the older answers, explaining it adds nothing. Mods are, in my experience, willing to look at those
Note that when more explanation is present, answers can easily add something to the existing ones, even if the code/solution is the same
 
7:13 AM
ok, thanks, will go with a custom flag
 
perfect explanation, I endorse everything @Adriaan just said.
 
nah, the answer in discussion is at most a summary of other existing and better answers
 
@RyanM lemme just keep that vague endorsement bookmarked :P
 
ok, mods, prepare for a wave of flags for answers on that question :)
'cause that question has many answers like the one I linked...
 
7:55 AM
@Cristik oh hey, the author of that question is actually a friend of mine...
Handling flags on questions with way too many answers is unpleasant due to all the browser lag.
 
so you'll basically help the friend to have a question with only high-quality answers, @RyanM :)
 
@Cristik up to 31 deleted answers on that...yikes.
 
8:13 AM
what I don't understand on that question, is that if there are no sockpuppets involved, why did recent answers that state the same things as older ones got so many upvotes
either sockpuppets, or just python likers that upvote everything that sounds reasonable
 
^ is this actually off topic?
 
you mean the XML one reported by SmokeDetector?
 
yep
 
no effort, but looks like a question about how to parse XML
 
no doubt, but... in which language?
 
8:34 AM
@DanielWiddis Ah, no... Was just writing one as you were asking about it, though! Sent now. Sorry again for my tardiness.
 
@blackgreen they are already using xmllint so probably that
 
ah I missed xmllint after the pipe
 
@blackgreen yes, the crypto.com support number is off-to...oh, you meant something else ;-)
 
I thought crypto would be on-topic here!
 
I found a duplicate for that, maybe also propose a duplicate for how to pipe something to jq
 
8:36 AM
I was just considering that the dupes about xmllint don't also pipe into jq (and rightfully so)
not sure if that might be worth answering, then
it seems that a duplicate closure would require at least two rather different dupe targets
 
@blackgreen the JSON part should be trivial once you figure out how to extract the data
 
8:51 AM
I suggested a dupe target for the jq
 
weird hiccups, some of my open tabs say the site is offline while others are responding
 
@tripleee I suppose I'd hiccup if I was under a severe spam wave, too.
2
 
9:49 AM
@Adriaan how to vote for reopen question?
 
@SecretKeeper he just demonstrated, didn't he?
 
@SecretKeeper See the help centre you'll need 3000 rep first
@tripleee they can't see that, having 1400 rep
 
ohhh, I see, sorry
 
@SecretKeeper You need 3k reputation in order to be able to vote to reopen a question (or 125 rep. to vote if it is is your own question).
 
@Adriaan aha so i dont have enought rep for it, thanks
 
@AdrianMole 250
 
@blackgreen Factors of 2 are irrelevant. :)
 
but why 125/250, and not 128/256? :)
 
Too many humans, not enough bots
 
I'm still working on a way to bit-shift my reputation.
 
10:01 AM
I'm hitting an interesting issue with the quick-edit spam. When I open the Q before it's been edited and load the flag dialogue, that dialogue gets closed before I'm able to flag due to the page reloading. Then I have to sit out the 3 second wait period before I can reload the flag dialogue.
 
I've had that issue a couple of times. It's almost as if the system is not optimized for the prevalent use-case of spammers posting gibberish, and then editing it into spam.
 
Use the Advanced Flagging userscript - no popup dialogue required.
 
I find the most effective way of dealing with it is just nuking the gibberish before it even turns into spam. Then, nothing gets edited.
2
 
@CodyGray Good thing the flag dialog remembers the text you wrote and doesn't throw it away randomly for basically no reason.
That would be bad. You know, if it did that.
 
I'm not writing any text. I'm flagging it as spam. Don't raise custom mod flags on spam, kids!
 
10:03 AM
@RyanM that would be helpful to reduce the number of robo-*-requesters :)
 
@CodyGray I just wanted to pile on my complaints.
 
Find an appropriate forum for them, gosh!
 
@RyanM As long as you aren't complaining about your piles.
 
@AdrianMole No, I don't live in the Millennium Tower.
 
Is that where all the Millennials I keep hearing about live?
 
10:05 AM
My building has some stupid design issues, but at least it's not falling over.
 
Does it have a 13th and 44th floor?
 
why do people insist in living in buildings with more than one floor?
 
Because it gets awfully crowded to have all those people on top of each other on a single floor.
 
@Cristik Its better than living in a building with no floors where you fall into the abyss if you lose you grip on the wall.
 
and/or commuting distances would grow ridiculous in cities with millions of inhabitants if everyone lives in their own single-storey building (preferably with a garden, to add to the sprawl)
 
10:12 AM
@Adriaan well, Elon Musk is gonna help us with this by allowing us to drive cars of mars :)
basically if we move half of Earth's people on Mars, we reduce the commuting distances by a half :)
 
@Cristik how's the commute for Mars to London any shorter than suburban London to the city?
 
in a crowded day I assume the durations are comparable :)
 
Is that what he's doing now instead of Twitter?
 
:54583869 hotmail? Seriously? Do youngsters even know what that is? These spammers are really 90s kids
 
10:23 AM
Yeah, it's not so hot nowadays
 
Oh I had one of those.. I forgot my username for that one
 
@SurajRao Maybe you should call support
 
Hi, support? I'm having issues printing an email from my Hotmail account using Outlook to my Ricoh printer because Norton Antivirus keeps blocking it, and oh boy was I delighted to hear that this was the number to call for all four of those things!
2
 
Please provide your name, your mothers name, your fathers name and your sisters name for further assistance
 
10:32 AM
@RyanM are the phone numbers at least working now? :P
 
or focus maybe more appropriate reason
 
@Adriaan I encourage anyone curious to test them and waste their time, though I haven't tried more recently :-p
 
10:49 AM
 
11:07 AM
 
whats in a name?
 
@SurajRao Letters, usually. Sometimes emojis, if you're a spammer.
 
@SurajRao That which we call spam, by any other name, would smell as vaguely sketchy.
 
11:29 AM
 
11:41 AM
Do I Mod flag if a user has posted the same NAA multiple times after self deletion?
or continue NAA flags
 
@SurajRao Mod flag
 
@SurajRao modflag at some point I'd say, linking to the pattern of course. Duplicate answers by the same user raise an auto modflag, but a mod would've to confirm whether that also holds for self-deleted duplicate answers
 
yeah mod flagged. Its aslo link only to their own github. so probably self promotion coms into play
 
@SurajRao Looks like deletion/reposting to evade downvotes as well. Definitely worth mod-flagging for all of the above reasons.
 
Or switch to abusive flags and save a mod the effort.
What your cv-pls requests imply that you would allow to be asked on Webmasters does not even come close to meeting my minimum quality standards.
Is this why I am not a Webmaster?
 
11:52 AM
@CodyGray We allow similar questions: Google Adsense Impressions Not Matching With Analytics
 
@CodyGray It's a network site. Just go along with it
 
My off-topic question list is piling up but I have no time to look at them. But there are some cool gems stackoverflow.com/questions/72287007/…
 
@Dharman I just installed Ubuntu 22.04 on an HP ENVY two days ago. No repro.
 
@Dharman are messages by the DharmanBot trashed after the question is dealt with?
 
@blackgreen No, they are not. You can find a lot of spam there too
 
11:59 AM
That could only be done by Dharman himself, because it would require mod privileges to do so after the normal grace period, so... I doubt it.
 
DharmanBot and DharmanMod should work together
 
@VLAZ Also DharmanSock
 
All working DharmanArm.
 
@blackgreen You can make the Unclosed Request Review script run there by editing it to add the room id (244314) to the list of places it runs.
 
1:03 PM
@karel This one has the wrong link - I think you had a copy-paste error
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (wrong link)
 
2:17 PM
 
What would people think (of me) if I were to propose the resurrection of the Help & Improvement review queue? (I have a specific reason...)
... that is, for posts on which an edit was made, in other review queues, by those with < 2k rep.
 
So, if a <2k user edits a post through, say, First Answers, then that edit goes to Help & Improvement?
 
@VLAZ Yeah. Or maybe a different (new) queue ... because of the current (frequent) fullness of the Suggested Edits queue.
I don't know what proportion of suggested edits comes from reviews, but it definitely seems to be a bottleneck, ATM.
 
If I understand this correctly, it's just another queue for suggestions but if they come from reviews.
 
Yes. But reusing the retired H&I may be easier to roll out than making a brand new queue.
One review queue being overloaded shouldn't impact other queues, as it currently does.
 
2:32 PM
I'm not inherently against something to that effect. Suggested queue is a problem. And not being able to edit in the other queues is also an issue, as it can prevent the correct action.
I'd still love it if SE do something fix the suggestions queue, so it doesn't get as overloaded as often.
 
Other than handing out Unicorn Points, dollars or cup-cakes to reviewers, what can be done?
 
Make it easier to get auto-banned from suggesting edits
Some really bad editors nonetheless skate by on the extremely lenient requirements.
 
Low-hanging fruits can be eliminated. If an edit seems OK (heuristics pending) then one approval closes it. However, if it gets one rejection, it reverts to the normal flow: 2 more approvals needed to be accepted. Same with the rejections - if it seems like it's not OK, then one rejection closes it.
That should be done for the really simple cases.
 
I don't think heuristics can possibly judge that.
 
Adding some punctuation and making i into I is something that seems OK, for example.
Making non-whitespace only changes to code blocks/snippets is potentially a problem.
 
2:38 PM
I think the requirements for "OK" on edits made from review should be more lenient (i.e. allowing even minimal, trivial edits to pass). After all, that's what I would do, as a 2k+ reviewer, on many posts.
 
@AdrianMole The difference is that your edits don't require two volunteers' time to evaluate.
 
Of course, I understand that. But if someone has the privilege to do (say) First Answers reviews, then they should be allowed the same actions as any other reviewer.
 
Trivial edits (capitalizing "i" and fixing nothing else) are a waste of reviewer time, and really aren't worth giving out 2 rep apiece.
 
Then make them rejectable with one vote?
 
... which is why a separate queue may be an option.
 
2:40 PM
Oh I think I misread your idea.
 
I was pointing stuff that can be caught by simple heuristics.
 
meh
 
@AdrianMole That's why Shog tried to remove too minor
 
Edits made from review...yeah, I could see that. It'd be hard to make reasonable UX there, though.
 
The rules don't need to be complex. Point is to make review items easier to process.
 
2:41 PM
@RyanM In my world, those are welcomed
 
just don't allow people without the privileges to make edits like that, and get people the privilege sooner via basing it on approved edits.
ez
 
Anyone doing reviews will have at least 500 rep., so many of the "terrible edits" wouldn't be in that batch.
 
An additional thing could be "known good editors" - statistics like X edits and Y percentage of approved edits, should suggest that the editor knows what they do. They can also have their suggestions approvable by one edit only.
 
that not capitalized i can wait a few years
 
Random thought, don't think too hard about it: If you have > 100 approved suggested edits, maybe only require one reviewer approval?
I'd suggest a threshold for non-rejected edits vs approved edits but
 
2:42 PM
@VLAZ I kind of like this.
 
One thing that catches folks is editing at the same time a >2k user edits and that ends up being a rejected edit
 
That's not how SE is supposed to work. SE is supposed to be the "best". If errors or improvements are found, they should be applied as soon as possible.
 
@Spevacus That also shouldn't happen in review queues, due to the soft-lock?
 
Kicking the can down the road is never a good solution
 
capitalizing an i isn't an improvement
 
2:44 PM
It is if you are supposed to be a high quality library of questions about topic X
 
@Braiam But, currently, any suggested edit from review does exactly that. I'm just suggesting to make a separate (shorter?) road.
 
@Braiam I agree, which is why we should be leaving space in the queue for meaningful improvements to be made to posts, rather than having them prevented because someone wanted to capitalize some "i"s that were in no way inhibiting the post's clarity for easy rep.
 
If the full SE queue is preventing users from correctly reviewing in First Qs and First As, then it is a problem that needs to be addressed, IMHO.
 
@RyanM I don't care why people are doing things, I care more than they are done
A good action doesn't stop being good because the intentions of the individual.
The same goes the opposite way.
 
You misunderstand me: I'm solely talking about the quality of the edits.
"meaningful improvements" vs. "capitalize some 'i's that were in no way inhibiting the post's clarity"
 
2:46 PM
You misunderstand me, your concern is not valid on a site that tries to pride itself of being high quality
@RyanM That's a meaningful improvement!
 
It is, when there's a limited number of editors as well as allowed suggested edits
 
It makes the post be actual English
 
So, I should not be concerned with more substantial edits not happening...because the site tries to pride itself of being high quality?
 
it is actual english without a capitalized i
 
That really does not follow.
 
2:47 PM
No, if the queue has a problem, solve it in the queue. Not by preventing improvements
 
yes, lets just conjurer up a few thousand more reviewers
 
Or make those edits go without review
I prefer correcting mistakes than preventing improvements
Any edit of less than 6 character needs zero review
 
You'd be surprised how wrong you can be in 6 characters.
 
i mean
just make multiple edits
 
Great, I'll make a new account and start inserting certain four-letter-words into everything.
 
2:52 PM
Maybe we could call the Microsoft support number about this predicament. They might know how best to improve the suggested edit pipeline.
 
You seems to think that I really am naive or stupid? I'm not either. I am frustrated that people, because there's not enough people motivated to do reviews, that think they need to reject improvements
Your time is wasted by that point already, just approve it
 
What is your solution to get more people to donate their time for free to review edits that are a waste of their time?
 
For starters, revert to the previous review UI
 
You'd have to pay me to review 40 typo corrections a day.
 
@RyanM I would review them gladly
 
2:54 PM
I dunno about the old one specifically, but yeah, the current one is almost unusable.
Scratte made a rework that's usable.
 
3:21 PM
@RyanM Well, I noticed that you have reviewed 30 suggested edits today: How many of those were correcting typos?
 
@AdrianMole I appreciate your optimistic impression of my memory.
 
there's this neat little tab on ryan's profile that displays their reviews
 
Yeah - maybe I'll go through them and mod-flag those I consider dodgy. :)
 
That's a new and unique way to get review suspended.
 
If you have 2k rep do your tag-wiki edits still go through the review queue?
 
3:25 PM
@MFerguson Yes. You need 20k for unilateral tag-Wiki edits.
 
(though really, if you did think I overlooked something or otherwise made a mistake reviewing, I wouldn't object to being informed of that)
 
user17242583
 
I once had to ask Zoe to override one of my reviews when I got it wrong.
I blame the fact that Stack Overflow can't figure out how to get code highlighting working in the review UI.
 
user17242583
@MFerguson But at 5k you can approve e.g, a 19k uesr's edits. I know, silly, right?
 
Research Assistant badge might be one of the most time consuming just cuz of the 1-week average accept/decline
 
3:26 PM
A bad workman blames his tools.
 
It's not like this is a coding site where that's important or anything.
 
user17242583
 
Could this be considered R/A?
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole Why not? It's pure sarcasm. There's no "turning on/off" for what the OP's doing.
 
3:39 PM
@AdrianMole What @richardec said ^
It's also basically a "meme", so to speak.
 
@richardec But I'm (part) Welsh ... we don't always 'get' sarcasm. :) (I delete voted in LQA, though.)
 
i mean
what if turning it off and on again fixed it though?
 
I am (and was) aware of the IT Crowd and the standing joke. My doubt was whether such a post deserves a full red flag, or just NAA/VLQ plus down- and delete votes. I was 85-90% on that one, but I don't like to miscast red flags, so I mentioned it in here. The fact that at least one other user gave it NAA or VLQ (it was in LQA) also factored in to my concerns.
 
@AdrianMole Fun fact: the system inserts stuff into that queue that wasn't actually flagged, like that one. Here is the moderator timeline for that.
 
@RyanM Maybe somebody flagged it on and then flagged it off again?
 
@AdrianMole Nope, mod timeline would show that.
Can't hide flags from us :-) except maybe in Collectives but that's a whole other can of worms.
 
OK. I do know that not all posts in LQA get their by flags. But, still ...
 
4:11 PM
I was never sure until I got the diamond, so I'm sharing the knowledge.
That said, I've also learned that some people's flagging of NAA and VLQ is...not amazingly accurate.
 
@RyanM This I can appreciate, just from some of the posts that I get to review in LQA.
 
I once had to mod-message someone to get them to stop flagging things VLQ.
(to their credit, that appeared to get the point across)
 
To be honest, I also flagged VLQ and NAA not entirely accurate at first. I did learn but I can also see how it's an easy mistake to make.
 
I find VLQ problematic
NAA is obvious
 
I had a spate of declined VLQ flags (on questions). Just after I reached the rep. to get to do the H&I, where there was a big button marked "Very Low Quality".
 
4:15 PM
VLQ... i tend to just prefer casting a downvote.
VLQ should automagically cast a downvote
 
Yeah, definitely didn't do a great job with some of my earlier flags either.
 
@KevinB it does...on answers...in the worst way possible
 
@KevinB Not necessarily. I did flag few things NAA where the answer was incorrect. It was not an answer to the question. It wasn't obvious that being an answer qualifies.
 
If you have a VLQ flag on your answer, and you edit it to fix the issue? VLQ flag marked helpful, answer downvoted.
 
i get that it's not clear to those who haven't been here for 10 years
 
I mean, sure, but the answer is unclear or of low quality at the point you flagged it
if that's not a reason to downvote..
VLQ is just getting in the way of things being voted on correctly.
 
Oh, I agree. The reason it's "the worst way possible" is that it waits until the answer is fixed to downvote it.
 
wat
that's... absurd
 
Heh: If you don't fix your answer, we'll delete it; if you do fix it, we'll downvote it.
 
and it's been that way without an update for 10 years?
 
4:20 PM
It no longer does it on questions or auto-VLQ flags (which don't exist on SO anyway)
 
@tripleee yes
 
4:38 PM
@AdrianMole Another review queue to do basically the same job as the Suggested Edits review queue doesn't sound good. That sounds like effectively the same as: "let's double the permitted cap of Suggested Edit reviews and double the bronze and silver badges which are awarded". There's definitely a problem, but yet another review queue for those doesn't seem like the right solution.
 
user17242583
4:55 PM
Is there documentation for the window.StackExchange object?
 
user17242583
I'm trying to get the ID of the currently-logged-in user.
 
@AdrianMole One simpler fix for SO would be to have a "tag suggested edit" queue, separate from the main queue. Would allow these edits (which have a higher rep level to review) to not clog the main queue up
 
user17242583
@richardec I guess not
 
@Machavity That would be good. IME, reviewing tag wiki/excerpt edits is substantially different from reviewing edits to posts. It would be quite helpful to have them separate. If not a different review queue, then as part of the filters for the Suggested Edits queue.
 
5:11 PM
@richardec this one maybe: stackapps.com/questions/9063/… ?
 
user17242583
@rene Thank you, that looks useful.
 
Stack Apps is Awesome!
 
user17242583
StackExchange.options.user.userId is just what I need.
 
user17242583
Indeed, it really is. I'm gonna be posting a script I'm working on there in a bit :)
 
Great!
 
5:17 PM
@rene I've heard some of the moderators there are not very sharp.
 
@VLAZ Diamonds are pretty pointy and can scratch glass, making them sharp
 
Everyone knows emerald is more rare than diamond
 
@Machavity Even when blurry? Seems like a paradox but who am I to question how moderators interact with the laws of the universe.
 
@Machavity actually it is the hardness that lets them scratch grass, not sharpness
Which makes sense, since it's hard being a moderator
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine I don't think it's a dupe. At least not of the chosen question
 
5:31 PM
@TylerH Lots of pressure, yes.
 
@Dharman Yeah, it's possible I was wrong.
 
5:55 PM
 
What causes SD to delete its messages?
 
@MarcoBonelli Quick deletion of the post
 
6:11 PM
Given that the code has nothing to do with the question, would you classify this answer as R/A? Looks like an attempt to execute code maybe?
 
@GeneralGrievance Yes, in the way I see it
 
Is RTFM flagable as "rude and abusive" or should I just edit it to something nicer?
 
in an answer? edit for sure
 
yes, in an answer
 
Does the answer say much more than that?
 
6:22 PM
Yes, it is a otherwise decent answer
 
I would just remove it in that case
 
@StephenOstermiller there are different degrees of RTFM... but I would go with an edit unless the answer is literally "read the f### manual"
 
heh, i found a case where a mod edited out "hope this is helpful" but left "RTFM"
 
Really Thanks From Me
 
wasn't even looking for mod edits, just happened to be the first one i clicked on
 
6:26 PM
I wouldn't just edit out every instance of RTFM point blank tbh...
 
What if the answer is "RTFM, and then RTFM Again" (no link to said manual) and then just some code with no further explanation
 
^ That's actually a good question. What should we do if editing an answer to remove bad content leaves only a block of code? It would still be a bad answer, but it's not like bad answers are disallowed as a rule.
 
close the question as a duplicate
 
The way I'm thinking, edit out the offending content and subsequently downvote/keep the downvote?
 
If it's a clear improvement, it's a good edit, right?
 
6:33 PM
well
the edit removes information
RTFM, insinuates that there's documentation out there that exists, that's useful information
though.. a link would have been a whole lot more useful
 
In that case, wouldn't just "Read the manual" be better?
 
If the information amounts to "RTFM" or "read the manual" and isn't conveyed in a non-rude and helpful way (such as a link to the correct area of documentation for the question), I don't think it needs to be said.
 
Yeah, that's true. It may convey "I can't be bothered to get the link for you."
 
If they've found the documentation and are still asking, maybe it didn't make sense explained in the document. Or maybe they had trouble finding the correct page in the document.
Of particular note, AWS and PowerShell documentation is gigantic and it can be difficult to find specific things if they aren't mentioned in multiple places
Either way, the user has a valid question. It's helpful to point to the right place in the documentation to help them with further questions they might have, but if I don't find a link to help the user, why should I expect them to "RTFM" if I can't even bother to do it myself?
 
This is the one i was looking at in particular that raised the scenario
 
6:40 PM
Are we discussing me?
 
not necessarily
 
@Dharman I'm not sure lol I just jumped in
 
that's just the first recent answer that popped up with my keywords
 
@KevinB Reading that one, I think my assessment of how to handle it is correct: remove the offending content and still downvote as a bad answer. Code only answers on their own probably don't necessitate a mod flag.
 
i just realized that the answerer is the OP
 
6:42 PM
Maybe flag one of the posts if you notice a particular user is using that language often
 
how weird
so it's a self RFTM
 
LOL well still... it's not useful information
 
can you be rude to yourself?
 
It could be perceived as rude to others who come across the question
The Q&A is not just for the asker, it's for future visitors too
 
that also makes the... "Hope this helps" signature weird
like, of course it helped, you posted the solution that worked for you, the op
 
6:45 PM
Also interesting they posted the question and answer 6 minutes apart
 
🤦‍♂️
 
<--- Rude POS who doesn't RTFM
@KevinB yes
 
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