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12:10 AM
NLN comment of the day: "I'm tempted to downvote because smoking kills ;-)"
 
NLN because everyone knows that already?
 
(they refrained from downvoting)
 
Oh, no, it's NLN because you're not supposed to comment on your downvotes. Sorry, silly me; I forgot.
 
@CodyGray No, it's because I'm secretly a shill for big tobacco.
 
I thought you were a secret shill for Big Tech!
 
12:11 AM
I haven't done a very good job of keeping that secret.
 
12:23 AM
guys what does mean cv-pls tag?
 
user17242583
cv-pls = close vote, please
 
user17242583
@SecretKeeper socvr.org/faq
 
Thanks!
 
user17242583
When you need a question (that you haven't answered) closed, you can submit a cv-pls request here for others to VTC (vote to close) it.
 
user17242583
@SecretKeeper np :)
 
12:28 AM
@richardec <2+1
 
 
2 hours later…
2:16 AM
@RyanM I loved your movie
 
 
2 hours later…
Yes
 
5:45 AM
@SurajRao on that question, stackoverflow.com/a/49008076/5211833 doesn't say anything over stackoverflow.com/a/10653498/5211833
There's a few other answers doing just val === undefined but they have various explanations (of a few words each), so I'm less sure about deleting those
 
seems like it needs a bit of cleanup... sigh
 
@SurajRao Jup. Would help improve the question though, it's got a lot of views and votes
 
6:05 AM
 
6:25 AM
Should this be converted to a comment? stackoverflow.com/a/72044917/2943403
 
@mickmackusa "As there has been no custom development of any of these components how do i address this security issue." sounds like not-programming to me, want it migrated?
 
Yes. We'll take it over at JSE. Hans van de Meer is a major player in Joomla -- so I want him over there too.
 
On its way over shortly.
 
cheers
hmm. it doesn't go straight into the first question review queue. I wait.
 
6:45 AM
do we need to keep this answer anymore? it adds nothing to the other answers, also it's not formulated very clear
the other aspects were already discussed/debated :)
 
@Cristik Definitely not.
 
7:59 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:26 AM
 
@StephenOstermiller should we really close such garbage-looking questions as dups?
 
It is duplicate, and the target is very high quality (even if off-topic and closed). It certainly doesn't hurt to have a sign post.
 
@desertnaut good point, I've also VTC for duplicate, though the question in clearly unclear
 
what does "pont" mean?
 
"needs more details" would've been the proper reason
 
9:36 AM
@desertnaut if it is a duplicate - sure, why not? "Garbage-looking" is not a close reason. If it's clear and not too broad and not a typo, etc., etc. it shouldn't be closed for another reason.
 
the question did have some spelling, grammar, and formatting problems, but the self-answer clarified for me that it was duplicate.
 
There can still be downvotes and del-votes if the duplicate isn't really useful.
 
based on the self-answer, it's likely a dupe, but I have no earthly idea how anyone could understand that from the question
 
is this at all programming-related? stackoverflow.com/questions/64028814/…
it is also the only non-spam hit we have in metasmoke for the domain in question, which separately makes it fishy
 
@VLAZ "garbage-looking" means it can/should be closed as needs details/clarity/MRE
@StephenOstermiller OK, but would you have realized this without the (self) answer? Anyway, it is largely a philosophical question, and I will not insist.
 
9:40 AM
@tripleee Ugh, question is about CLS = Cumulative Layout Shift. It's tagged with CLS = Common Language Specification.
 
@desertnaut Without the self-answer I would have closed as unclear.
 
@VLAZ right, but it seems like an SEO question more than a programming question, am I right?
 
@StephenOstermiller yes, I guessed so, that's why I did VTC it as such myself
 
It sounds to me like should be renamed to for clarity since it can mean multiple things.
 
It caught 5 more questions over the night. chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/244314/off-topic-questions
I think I need more tags
 
9:47 AM
@tripleee It's about site metrics. Not necessarily SEO but measuring how "good" a site is based on several criteria. In this case, for UX. It measures "jumps" in the UI from elements loading. For example, if you open a page and few seconds later the button you want to click goes down because some element above it loads and takes up more space. I feel like could be on-topic to ask how to fix specific instances of this but the Q here and the answers are just not good.
 
@StephenOstermiller There are a whopping 9 questions where it means that, and one is kinda questionable if it should have that tag.
 
It's asking "how do I fix it on my site" with a link to the site. Even if it's not advertisement, it's not useful. What are future visitors supposed to do?
 
@VLAZ On Webmasters we have a site-specific close reason for those types of questions. Even if it can be answered, it won't be useful to others, and once the site is changed, it the problem won't even be apparent anymore.
 
I can send some of these to your site
 
@Dharman Do you already have ? You'll find more problematic tags associated with it.
 
9:51 AM
Not yet, thanks
 
How does the bot work?
 
@Dharman Please. I'm here mostly to try to get such questions asked in the right place. Of course there are many actual programming questions tagged with those too.
 
@RyanM it looks at questions and pings me if a question has only troublesome tags
 
RIP your inbox
 
@Dharman I also have second set of watched tags that are less troublesome. There are far more on-topic questions and far fewer off-topic questions with or or or or or or or or or
 
9:58 AM
Does anyone know what the tag is for? It has 2 questions.
 
@JeanneDark The first word when you attempt to type a sentence describing your problem into the "tags" box.
 
@JeanneDark when you want to ask for indexes to arrays. You know, since your code would have arr[i] in it.
 
@JeanneDark There was a discussion about a few days ago: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/54396641#54396641
 
@Vega Was it already removed once? Or was it just discussed?
 
Thanks! I didn't know it was so popular
 
10:09 AM
am very popular!
 
@CodyGray I know about the discussion only
 
But it makes sense, from the OP's point of view: "I am asking the question so I tag it ". Now I will check if we also have the tag ...
 
Final year project in 10 days? I suppose it's possible. I think one guy from uni did his in about 7. Or so he said.
 
@VLAZ They forgot to add the tag
and maybe
 
@Dharman more interesting tags: , maybe also / / , , (and maybe , )
 
@Vega It's not about bulk deletion, but Dharman's bot to find problematic questions
 
@JeanneDark For deletion
:)
 
But not the tags, the off-topic questions
 
Dharman would never delete anything
 
11:02 AM
me, deleting anything, never
 
So, there is now a number you call if you need support from Robinhood? Do you just tell them exactly how much you need stolen from the rich? Is there a form you fill out?
 
@Vega guess we start them all
 
@CodyGray I wonder if Maid Marian has to call the same number
 
@CodyGray It's a trap. Only the rich are literate. If you can fill in the form, you will be robbed.
 
11:06 AM
What makes people post these questions here? stackoverflow.com/questions/64054412/…
 
@SurajRao don't
 
c ?
 
@SurajRao No "see" tag
 
@VLAZ Oof! Thanks for the warning; I narrowly avoided disaster there.
 
So can ?
 
11:15 AM
@Dharman Well, they get answers....
 
all these tags need to be posted in meta as burninate requests?
lot of paper work
 
@CodyGray It's true, I've deleted more posts than Dharman this week.
Actually, I guess I've deleted more posts than anyone on the site this week...
2
Weird to think about it that way.
 
jps
Are the spammers getting sick of their own spam or why do they use 🤢 in their posts?
 
this particular spammer has a penchant for using emojis, I guess they imagine it will make filtering harder
 
11:30 AM
@RyanM more than roomba?
 
That's true, I don't think I can hold a candle to Community's deletion habits.
 
@RyanM Don't sell yourself short. Just delete Community. Then undelete all posts deleted by it and delete the posts again. Assert dominance.
 
Community's profile is the only one that lags more than mine when opening it
 
Interestingly, Community's flag history seems to be only the flags it's inherited from deleted users, not the autoflags.
Meaning it has some, ah ...less than helpful flags.
> I am looking for a libraries to support Bluetooth BLE in java/ spring boot. This is my need. You are talkijng about the possible libraries so I think you can provide me the list of BLE java libraries
> jh89ijopjpiuhnphnuihiuhniunjiniuhnu
 
11:40 AM
Were those flags marked helpful? ;)
 
Marked "confusing"
 
> Please can you remove this bounty. The question is rubbish. Thanks.
Two on the same one:
> how does this need detail is it noq clear
> it is a qestion how are you
 
there should be a Twitter feed
 
Declined: "no it is not i am fine"?
 
@JeanneDark wasn't even declined with a corresponding keysmash :'(
 
11:42 AM
@RyanM *googles "how to decline moderator's response to a flag"*
 
@RyanM That one sounds helpful to me. In fact there should be a "The question is rubbish" flag
 
@StephenOstermiller You can flag questions as VLQ
 
@StephenOstermiller We call it all sorts of confusing things, like "very low quality" and "rude/abusive". Also "needs improvement".
 
VLQ just doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
@StephenOstermiller It's also not meant to be used when you want to see the question get closed
 
11:45 AM
I'm pretty sure a rubbish question should be binned.
(Am I speaking British well enough for an American?)
 
Moderators are not your personal question-closing valets. :-)
 
Community has 95% helpful flag count with flags such as these "jh89ijopjpiuhnphnuihiuhniunjiniuhnu "
 
@CodyGray :-(((((
 
jps
12:35 PM
How can we educate people to flag spam, not cv it?
 
@jps Post a comment (quickly) and hope they see it before the question gets deleted.
 
some people leave the comment and yet also flag, but that's just weird
 
jps
@AdrianMole did it in the past, but this post was already at -5 when I saw it. A true challenge for the FGITW.
 
Well, I guess it's their own vote(s) that they're wasting.
 
12:55 PM
@Adriaan [bug] moderators are too effective
 
spam is hitting hard this morning
 
@NathanOliver Ye weekende approaceth.
 
grease the lenses of your mobile cameras and look for screenshot angles where the food stains stand out
that one had a tag, I guess that's one-uppance over the tag we discussed
 
1:16 PM
for no MCVE we should use need details or clarity flag?
 
I use debugging details.
 
@SecretKeeper "Needs debugging details"
from its description: "The question should be updated to include desired behavior, a specific problem or error, and the shortest code necessary to reproduce the problem."
 
i dont have that flag , i guess it needs more points , i just i have 1500
 
@SecretKeeper you have that flag. "needs improvement" => "A community-specific reason" => "Needs debugging details"
(on the same page as the "Blatantly off-topic" flag)
 
@JeanneDark oh yeah sorry i didn't know that , thank you
 
1:20 PM
@SecretKeeper And once you hit 3k, you will have a separate "Close" option next to the "Flag" option. So instead of it being just a flag, those options will count toward actual close votes.
 
One step at a time. :-)
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Also really weird.
 
"POS Support Number". No argument here.
 
I know we shouldnt be changing an answer.. But We could edit out the answer from the Q and replace the NAA right? stackoverflow.com/questions/69614607/…
 
1:33 PM
@SurajRao That would be fine. The key is not to put words in the OP's mouth
Since they added the answer to the question, you would simply be fixing them posting it in the wrong spot
 
yup done
 
I see the spammers have come back from vacation
 
HA! This is nothing compared to babaji spam
It was pages of chat messages
 
I suspect SE did some stuff to limit them before. They might have had to go ground for a bit to let things cool off
 
probably called the support numbers
 
1:47 PM
They shouldn't have given the black magic :D
I wonder if I post something with "black magic" on the title, how many users would be confused
 
@JeanneDark Well, we can play that game too
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Nov 24, 2021 at 18:40, by Machavity
[ SmokeDetector | MS |🔥] Phone number detected in title, potentially bad keyword in title (263): Meta.Smoke_SuPPort_Number (1-555+CALL-THOMAS)⇋☎️USA $N0V$ Meta.Smoke HeLPline NumBer by Sm0k3Dete(t0r on stackoverflow.com
 
Unfortunately Thomas Ward does not do Ubuntu phone support :P
 
We need a script that calls the support numbers and just starts reading them random closed posts from Stack Overflow.
 
@RyanM Sounds too cruel.
 
1:52 PM
@RyanM That will get expensive pretty fast
 
@RyanM Nah, just use XKCD
 
^
 
they are just flooding
 
@Adriaan Maybe they should add some non-Latin characters, just to be sure to be sure.
 
eek.. not emojis again
 
2:01 PM
only non-Latin emojis, though.
 
Greek emojis?
 
Beware of Geeks bearing grift.
 
@GeneralGrievance (λ﹏λ)
(╯°Δ°)╯︵ π
 
So this is what they mean by "lambda expression."
4
 
2:29 PM
 
2:53 PM
Haha! I have beaten smokey
 
3:05 PM
 
3:29 PM
What on earth happened here? Undeleted twice in a row?
 
3:40 PM
@RyanM ask martijn if he uses a script or if he had that page open for a long time
he may have had the page loaded after Sam deleted it and had not refreshed after you undeleted it, and somehow sent an undelete command after you already undeleted it
 
Any WinAPI gurus around to confirm/deny if this is a duplicate? Or anyone who would dare ping Raymond Chen or Hans Passant?
 
since he's a moderator the system may have bugged out and allowed the vote since moderators cast binding/overriding votes and just said "since it was deleted, the following users have cast undelete votes" for the list of users on the second undelete entry
 
That's a reasonable guess, but the moderator timeline strongly suggests that was not the case.
 
Hmm, not sure then, but then still that'd be a question for another moderator to answer
Despite what may sometimes seem, this room isn't populated only by moderators :-P
@AdrianMole why not bug @CodyGray directly, he loves that
 
My guess is that the server bugged out partway through processing my undelete vote and it didn't actually get undeleted.
 
3:43 PM
@RyanM Were either you or Martijn in New York, New York (or Baden Baden) at the time?
 
Similar to how we've had posts get not-quite-deleted by Community.
 
@TylerH I leave pinging mods to Room Owners. :)
 
makes Adrian a room owner
 
But the money's no good.
 
Meh, it's not bad, either :-)
 
3:47 PM
Okay, Martijn cracked the case: the question was deleted, and for whatever unhelpful reason the system lets us undelete answers on deleted questions, which works...about as well as you'd expect.
 
Clever, that MP fellow.
 
Indeed. Jury's still out on whether Martijn is actually three regular moderators in a trenchcoat.
 
@RyanM Wait, so you are saying you undeleted the answer without noticing the question was deleted?
 
Yep.
I was undeleting them from the flag queue, and that only shows the flagged post itself.
 
Ah, a flaw in the system design
 
3:52 PM
those don't exist
 
@KevinB If the system itself is a flaw, there can't be any flaws in the system *insert man pointing to his brain meme*
 
should this be closed as recommendation? (SD report) stackoverflow.com/questions/3186932/…
 
user17242583
"what IDE?" is the question, so yes. @tripleee
 
user17242583
@tripleee also look at the top answer: "You may or may not like this suggestion, but ..."
 
user17242583
So it's opinion-based.
 
4:25 PM
liking a suggestion or not isn't what the 'opinion' part of 'opinion-based question' means
The question is opinion-based since it's asking to recommend an IDE to use when any number will work, but not because of that phrase in the answer.
 
user17242583
I understand that; I meant to point it out it as support for the fact that it's opinion-based, but I know it doesn't constitute it on it's own.
 
it isn't necessary
 
4:49 PM
 
@Dharman Certainly not a good one, but "Calculate min no.of disk required" is what the question is looking for.
 
It does not look like programming question to me
 
That too.
Q: "What is the best thing in Linux in comparison to Windows?"
A: Nothing. Windows can run Linux VMs.
 
5:23 PM
@DavidBuck I've edited the question to ask how to do something instead of for a package. I think it's probably the best python forest plot Q&A I can find. Maybe take a look and see if you think it has been salvaged?
 
@Dharman Might want to check this out too: stackoverflow.com/questions/72061802/…
 
@GeneralGrievance It's ok if my bot pings me. No need to ping me twice :D
 
Oops. Thought it was the same thing but differently worded. Short term memory issue!
 
6:06 PM
@GeneralGrievance No, it is. I was just making a joke that you pinged me out of context. Ahh, I really need to stop with being funny
 
@Dharman You're turning into Makyen :-P
 
@TylerH Be careful or he'll start replying with paragraphs :P
 
@IanCampbell I'm convinced. Could one of the ROs please remove this request?
 
@Machavity you win the race condition
 
6:11 PM
Diamond beats a spade :P
2
 
ouch
 
Brutal
@DavidBuck Thanks for taking the time to consider. Much appreciated.
 
Maybe I should add to Dharman's bad tag list...
Hmm, is the Roomba forecaster script broken?
or rather, a change to the markup breaking it
Meh, a reinstall got it working again
 
user17242583
6:33 PM
Is there a way to filter for cv-pls requests still in this chat? It seems like there often are stragglers that only get 2 CVs and then are lost in the history...
 
@RyanM can you flag posts that are currently deleted as spam? I can see a case where you'd want/need to undeleted an answer on a deleted question to have it marked as spam. Or perhaps the opposite clearing a spam deletion on an answer to a deleted question.
 
@richardec You may find this user script helpful.
It adds a handy button
 
user17242583
Should this answer stay deleted? It almost looks to me like it should be undeleted. stackoverflow.com/a/71117679/17242583
 
user17242583
@IanCampbell sweet!
 
@richardec Seems like an answer to me. Only the last delete recommendation came after the edit. Not sure if it actually works though.
 
user17242583
6:47 PM
@Ian wow, that script is more useful than I though. It adds more than a button or two...
 
The most helpful thing is that it "fades" requests that have been completed. That way you don't have to waste your time on closed questions.
 
user17242583
Indeed, that is useful. And you don't even have to reload the page to get it to update!
 
user17242583
looks like that answer was link-only: stackoverflow.com/revisions/71117679/1
 
user17242583
But it's undeleted sooner that I would've expected! :P
 
Indeed, not blaming the first 3 reviewers for recommending deletion. I would have done the same.
 
@richardec You can also turn up the auto-update rate. I don't remember what the default is, but it's too long.
 
user17242583
7:29 PM
@Ian is it possible to disable that user script for the SOBotics chat? I like it here but not there.
 
@richardec I think if you remove 111347| from line 7, that should take care of it?
 
@richardec You could replace all the // @include lines with just // @match https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/41570/* if you just want it to run here
 
8:15 PM
Does anyone have any objections to me merging and ?
I also wonder if should be merged too
 
@Dharman That's fine, they are the exact same thing
and er-diagrams
there is also
 
user17242583
8:42 PM
@IanCampbell Silly me, should've checked the script instead of nonsensically assuming it applies to all chats! :P
 
user17242583
@StephenOstermiller Thank you, I'll do that.
 
I merged entity-relationship and entity-relationship-model. I also merged erd and er-diagrams. I didn't merge erd and entity-relationship because I am not sure if it should be done. If someone has justification, please create a meta post.
 
9:01 PM
@Dharman I find objectionable that they exist.
 
yeah, I think I agree with you
 
can I post a [del-pls] in here if the accepted answer that prevents deletion by Roomba is mine?
 
ofc, why not?
 
not sure if that counts as "being involved" as per SOCVR rule #15
I could CW the answer first, though
 
9:08 PM
If anything, you are involved in a way that would you lead to not deleting the question. Furthermore, afaik you cannot "un-involve" yourself by deleting the answer since it is the accepted answer.
 
@blackgreen I would say yes, if your answer is not older than 3 months and scored at 2 or higher (e.g. if deleting it would refund any rep change from it).
I may be misremembering the specific numbers for that threshold
If it's old enough/high enough score to have the rep gain locked in, I would say no, because then you're requesting action on a post that would prevent others from benefiting where you have benefited (and would continue to benefit after deletion)
This particular scenario is not explicitly covered in our FAQ's already-lengthy "Involved" section, so I think it falls to RO discretion
 
@blackgreen you could make your answer to a community-wiki answer. This would "un-involve" you from the question.
 
@TylerH got it thanks; IIRC the thresholds for keeping rep on deletion is visible for 60 days and 3+ score
 
Ah yeah, that sounds correct
 
@Turing85 that's an option, but making it CW would unnecessarily bump the post in the active list shortly before being deleted
(assuming the del-pls gets fulfilled)
Ironically, just like I'm requesting deletion where I have an answer, the question's third close vote is from its own OP
karma
 
9:21 PM
@blackgreen :)
 
I am adding to my list
 
@Dharman your "list"?
 
@Turing85 I have started watching troublesome tags chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/244314/off-topic-questions
 
9:35 PM
@Dharman is there a way to see the actual list of tags?
 
@Dharman wanna have some more tags?
 
@Dharman might want to add in there
 
@Turing85 yes, please
 
9:39 PM
@Turing85 Ok, let me clarify. I am trying to find out whether some tags when used on their own are troublesome. If a question has tags only from my list then it's likely it's blatantly off-topic or mistagged.
 
@Dharman I figured that, yes.
 
So for example, API on its own is incorrect as the tag info says DO NOT USE
 
@Dharman I don't see that one. OK, maybe it's a "troublesome tag", but I think you should have asked for some from the other SOCVR regulars.
 
@Dharman
@Dharman
 
@Turing85 what's wrong with that?
 
9:46 PM
@RyanM - on its own - is most probably not programming-related. You'd normally have some other tag going along with it
 
git is a tool primarily used by programmers; it's definitely programming-related.
 
git is programming related, or at least on-topic
 
"Git" is mostly on-topic. But, if someone has an issue with their login for GitHub, then that's not.
{IMHO}
 
@AdrianMole that'd most probably tagged , no?
 
9:49 PM
Dunno. If it's wrongly tagged, then it's wrong.
 
@AdrianMole so... if it's wrong... it's wrong? ^^
 
Well, yeah, unless it's not really wrong.
 
Lemme guess: it's not really wrong in this case, right? :D
 
🚽
 
Here's a funny tag situation stackoverflow.com/questions/72047901/…
 
9:58 PM
How is it possible for me to get +84 rep for a voting corrected / reversal? Golly, that's messed up (or it was). The 4 I understand, but the 80?
 
@mickmackusa lol, what
 
@mickmackusa That was the thing I mentioned a little while back. The votes were old-ish but pretty suspicious.
 
@Dharman Funny how? The [postgresql] tag?
 
KNEX KNEX KNEX
 
@Dharman that's the most thorough tagging I've ever seen.
 
10:02 PM
Surely they couldn't have all been downvotes, right? But how else can you "reverse" votes? I don't understand. You can't award +10 that "you didn't get, but should have".
 
@RyanM I think a mod message might be in order there somewhere
 
@Dharman Oh uh, yeah probably.
 
I don't know much about KNEX (well, anything, really) ... but the tag wiki for Knex.js mentions SQL and Postgres ... so, why not?
 
@RyanM with all inclusive holidays, but that's up to you
 
@mickmackusa Did you have 8 upvotes that were removed (after editing)? Community Bot may see that as serial un-voting.
 
10:05 PM
Did I downvote the same user(s) 80 times in a suspicious way over my long SO career!?
 
@mickmackusa You did not.
This was a voting reversal in your favor.
@AdrianMole While that's prohibited by policy and might result in a suspension, I don't believe staff will actually ever restore votes in that situation.
 
@RyanM .... I don't know how the vote-reversal bot works (and nor should I); but, if a disgruntled user were to look through Mick's posts for those that they had upvoted earlier, but were then edited, so they could remove those votes, that may trigger it's actions. Dunno.
 
I'll just be explicit because I don't see what useful information about the system I'm hiding by being cagey here, and I think @mickmackusa could theoretically figure it out based on rep history: it was a manual reversal of 42 downvotes.
 
@RyanM Wow!
 
The meaning of life, the universe, and everything
Including rep changes
 
10:25 PM
@RyanM @mickmackusa i.stack.imgur.com/nJJOd.jpg (no onebox)
 
Surprisingly on-point...
 
Why this is not the way the system informs you, I have no idea.
 
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