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12:08 PM
@CodyGray They can hire me then. Then they have a real comparison to slow ;)
 
ping
 
Gotta go bye ping pong
 
ping pong
 
12:53 PM
@Scratte they probably will not as they seem to have fired someone previously for not making the impossible deadline :)
 
Heh, there is a continuation:
Argh!
I am on mobile, sorry, can't properly inline
 
@OlegValter No.. chat cannot inline election-comments :)
 
@Scratte I wanted to go your route and copy the text over :) but this is a bit too much trouble right now
I am disappointed by the comment thread there
 
1:08 PM
Well.. what can I say. I think Dharman has some pretty good comebacks.
Note that it's not the comment that makes me angry.. it's the fact that the link goes to a 404
I think the moderators are talking turns being here ;)
 
@Scratte I know :) it clicked when I saw your message in the election chat
@Scratte well, these loonies need to be kept in check, after all :)
10
Q: Sing, Elton! - Blog article mistypes

Tamás SengelIn this blog article, Singleton is mistyped twice.

 
1:34 PM
Ohh.. and look. Someone is already spoiling the fun.. :/
Links in 412207:
 
2:26 PM
@OlegValter I don't see where it's misspelled. What am I missing?
Oh...got it now. It's the getInstance() and the constructor.
 
Sing-elton :) Not Singleton ;)
But.. It took me a while too, so now I've put it into.. something deletable :D
 
3:20 PM
Why was one of edit to the question was rolled back ?
 
@ArpitMittal Hi :) I don't know which question you're referring to, but I doubt this is the right chatroom for what you're asking.
 
double-beep refered to join this chatroom
@double-beep recently rolled back by edits to the question and i am wondering why
 
Ah, I see. My bad, I wasn't aware of that context.
 
@ArpitMittal I suppose you are referring to this post?
 
@double-beep, right
@cigien no worries, I am learning this platform so my bad for not setting the context
 
3:25 PM
If you've found a solution, you need to post it as an answer, not edit it into the question Answering your own question is encouraged.
 
@double-beep I tried to do that in one of old post and was told not to do so. see here - stackoverflow.com/questions/68777307/…
 
Do you have a deleted Answer on that last post?
 
3:48 PM
@double-beep here it is -
Based on the above suggestion, the problem is resolved. One can refer to code here - github.com/arpit9mittal/spring-batch-demo
 
@ArpitMittal I'm not sure who told you not to do so. Unless there is an answer that already contains your solution, you should post one.
 
@double-beep How to paste an image here
 
use the "upload" button next to "send"
 
@double-beep here is the note which I believe you cannot see -
Just update your question with this link, or put it into the comments. Do not post a separate answer. –
ouflak
Aug 26 at 19:29
 
That's because you linked to an solution. That's not considered an Answer.
The first part is wrong: "Just update your question with this link"
 
3:58 PM
I got it now.
 
The idea is that the Answer needs to be on Stack Overflow in the Answer box itself.
 
thanks
 
If you implemented a solution as in an entire program, then obviously you can't post it in the Answer box.
But then you write "I implemented this, and I use it now like this: <code of how to use the library>" ..and add some explanation of how it works and stuff :)
 
i wanted to share the whole solution with the answer so that i can benefit lots of people wondering how to solve the problem.
 
This page talks about it: how to answer
This meta post talks about what not to do in an Answer: When to flag an answer as “not an answer”
And the easiest one is the tour. It's short, but informative. And you get a badge for reading it :)
 
4:12 PM
thanks again
 
 
2 hours later…
:)
 
 
2 hours later…
9:08 PM
jeez, I missed all the fun today
 
We already explained you need to stop sleeping ;)
 
@Scratte I know, I know! :)
It may have no effect at all. But I see no harm in trying it out. — Scratte 1 hour ago
^ I see Dharman did follow the advice to post a meta :) Let's see how it goes
 
Yes, I think there's no reason to assume that it won't work.
 
9:54 PM
@OlegValter Fortunately, we only fire interns. I've never heard of an actual employee ever being fired.
(Although, at least one was driven very hard to leave. One of the best algorithm developers we've ever had.)
@OlegValter What'd you miss?!
 
@CodyGray was it out of concern for their well-being? :)
 
Me being upset?.. No. I'm upset all the time ;)
 
@CodyGray a wild carrot with complaints about the Borg :) 'tis amusing
 
@OlegValter Yes. They were concerned that, because someone in the employee's family got very sick, he had started leaving 1 hour early from work several days a week, and that would reduce the well-being of the management.
 
@CodyGray oh, that's so nice of them! They wanted them to spend more time with their family
 
10:01 PM
They offered to cut their pay to half.
Employee didn't quite understand the math... How leaving 1 hour early a few days a week (while often coming in 1-2 hours early every day) added up to half-time.
 
@CodyGray easy - just use an amplifier
 
Did they quit?
 
Yes
 
I hope they have a nice job now :)
 
see? Such a caring management - they were so concerned about their well-being that they chose a very tactful approach them to quit :)
 
10:08 PM
Yes
Basically
 
I don't quite understand it. Did they get someone else now? Or did they just put that work on the remaining people?
I imagine they wanted to pressure them to stay longer in the office.. but didn't realize that it wasn't going to happen. How do people like that get to management positions in the first place?
 
@Scratte They put the work on the remaining people
Who, at the time, didn't even know half of what this guy knew and was doing
Although, the remaining people did pick up the slack, and fill the role acceptably
 
So. They really are trying to bankrupt the company?
 
@Scratte They start and own the company.
 
I see. But from what I understand they make promises to customers that they can't keep. They're unable to deliver anything. They drive people in the company to quit. How did they even get the company to the point there there's an actual revenue?
 
10:13 PM
"They're able to deliver." What are you basing that on?
Oh, I think you meant "unable".
Yeah. Sorry, mind-reading hadn't synced yet.
Anyway... you're making another wrong assumption about "actual revenue".
 
Sorry. I make those typos all the time :(
But.. how does the company pay wages if they have no money?
 
Well, we get money from contracts
But we spend it all
So we don't really have "revenue"
 
Hmm. I'm getting the feeling that they're making the customers pay to "start developing"..
 
Also, before I started, we'd apparently gone massively into debt multiple times, and they've had to get multiple loans, generally personal loans from family and friends, not to mention their own money.
@Scratte Definitely! Which... isn't all bad or stupid. What's stupid about it is that they do this, yet simultaneously go promise to the customer that we have everything already and it all works and it's great.
 
10:17 PM
What is "their own money"? Do they have income from other places than this company that they started?
 
Yes
One of the founders is a professor
 
I see.. so this company is just /dev/null for the assets they get from anywhere else :D
 
Kinda
Except... worse.
 
How many people are actually working on their products?
I mean not the managers or HR or cleaning personal..
 
I dunno, I'm pretty sure we have > 20 employees. But if you count just engineers? Maybe 5-ish.
Depends on how you define "engineer".
We have several degreed engineers who don't do any engineering work.
And then we have a lot of people who just... "test" stuff. Repeatedly. Until they get the results that are desired. Which... sometimes takes a while.
 
10:21 PM
by doing the same thing over and over?
 
I'm not counting testers.. I'm talking about the production part. The product.
The development work itself. (I'm not implying that testing isn't needed.. but testing requires something to test)
The testers, managers, cleaning personal, HR and all those other people are basically the second level and they are only needed because someone is making a product. Without a product, there's nothing.
It's kind of like it's really nice that there's a head and a secretary and someone makes food and another comes to clean in a hospital. But if there are no doctors or nurses, all those others are kind of moot.
 
it is easy! You just make the nurses do the surgeries :) Don't mind the ratio of surviving patients, they will learn eventually
 
@OlegValter They vary the steps a bit sometimes. Change the software configuration, maybe. Unplug and replug stuff. You know.
 
I still count both doctors and nurses as the "workers" in the machine. The others are supporting part that makes it all work out.
 
@CodyGray ah, the venerable "have you tried turning it off and on" tradiition? :)
@Scratte then make your administrative stuff tend to patients too :) After all, they work in a clinic, they must know how to treat pneumonia? Works for most of IT, so why not there...
 
10:37 PM
More, the venerable "just keep trying things until you succeed" tradition
And/or "we have to do something! this is something! so we have to do it! now! hurry up!" tradition
 
@OlegValter I've never minded doing that other stuff :) Talking directly to customers. Making project plans or budgets.. :) But, I think I'm lucky that I don't risk killing a patient doing it :D
 
@CodyGray oh, the "try random stuff until it succeeds and conclude this is the reason it succeeded" one!
 
Yeah
 
greatest devs do that - I see them all the time on main: "I tried X, but it did not work" :) Most of the time the response in my head is "why on earth X could ever help you in this case?"
@Scratte I doubt people talking to customers and making plans will like doing development work, though :)
 
@OlegValter I do :) I actually prefer talking directly to customers. I don't much like the middle people giving me vague descriptions of that I need to do.
 
10:44 PM
you like getting vague descriptions first-hand? :)
 
I think he likes giving them, too :-)
 
@OlegValter Yes.. :) They're actually less vague than after being interpreted. And if I don't understand what they want, I ask them.. and I keep asking and poking and digging. If I can't get any clarity, then I can't do it. I'll often ask why they need something and to explain the workflow they need it in.
 
@CodyGray btw, just so you know - the bot (the production version) should obey mod commands now. I think I failed to properly communicate how the access control system should work, and that basically lead to mods being downgraded partially (because the older approach was still used in some places) for a while :)
 
You mean Shree's a production version?
 
Shree is still in review :)
@Scratte oh, so you are interpreted squirrel, I see, I see
 
10:51 PM
@OlegValter I picked up on that yesterday. You mean the ElectionBot in the main election chat has now been upgraded, too?
To whom did you fail to communicate this access control system?
 
@CodyGray yup, exactly
 
But, the "say" command has to be typed in the same room?
There used to be a way I could tell the bot to "say" in another room, like the testing room.
 
@CodyGray to Sam :) At some point the old version of how access was granted was removed without me noticing that it would imply populating the list of mods dynamically. So 'tis my fault :(
@CodyGray it used to be the other way around?
it might've actually been a bug that it worked
 
Yeah. It's stupid and completely ruins the effect when a mod types "dear bot: say x", and then the bot says "x"
 
yes, I understand that :)
 
10:56 PM
Mhmm. I hope so.
:-)
 
the problem is that I think we never discussed dashboard access
and the ability of the bot to reply to a request from another room was actually a bug, IMO
 
Probably
But it seemed like a super useful "bug" in that case.
Actually.... "say in room x:" would be useful, maybe.
 
If and only if it's already in room x.
 
No!
Not useful!
 
it is - well, let me demonstrate that it was a bug :) But I think you should either get access to the dashboard or have an explicit, not bug-induced way of doing that
 
10:59 PM
It really seems like a useful bug
Many bots have relied on it in the past
 
@CodyGray You want it to join a room that's it's not currently in to say x? :D What you tupoed the room nr?
 
What?
 
well, we have a proper way of doing that now - the ChatExchange package supports properly joining and maintaining connections to multiple rooms. Demo:
 
Yes, master!
 
The point is to be able to, as a mod or bot owner, get the bot to say things that appear to be coming from the bot's "AI".
 
11:00 PM
^^ that's the bug.. :)
 
If you send the "say" command in the same room, then it completely ruins the effect.
 
@Scratte Cody is the bug?
 
I guess that's what he's saying. I have no idea.
I'm also sitting in a Stupid Meeting(TM) at the moment, though.
 
@OlegValter double ^ means two messages up ;)
 
@Scratte ah, it was meaningful :) fair enough
 
11:03 PM
@CodyGray Yes, but if you do a Bot say (room nr., "Scratte, don't be silly") so you really want the bot to join the room with that nr. if it's not already in that room?
 
@CodyGray yeah, definitely - that's what happens now with the dashboard - I am unsure what exactly the thoughts are on how it is supposed to work for mods now. say is definitely not a dev-only command, it is explicitly AccessLevel.privileged. I'll ask
 
@Scratte Yes, the bot would need to already be in that room.
 
@CodyGray That's what I meant :) When you said that it's not useful if there was that limitation :)
 
I have no idea what you're saying
The point is to have a backdoor to get the bot to say stuff in the main election chat room, where it obviously already is.
 
@Scratte that is very easy to do now with the updates we made
 
11:05 PM
@CodyGray Yes. I understand that :)
 
it can join and leave rooms at will (without restart)
 
So you make the say commands somewhere else, so it appears that it's just saying stuff on it's own.
 
@OlegValter Right. I would not think that mods need to be given access to the dashboard.
I mean, this used to work, after all....
 
@OlegValter Yes, sure. I just meant that it needs to not join the X room to do the say unless it's already in it. It would be quite odd for it to join the Python room and say "Scratte, don't be silly" just due to a typo in the chosen X :)
 
@OlegValter That's nice, but not even necessary.
 
11:07 PM
@CodyGray absolutely - it is a functionality not of a bot but of the underlying package :)
 
What package?
 
ChatExchange
that we now both happen to maintain too
 
@Scratte Mods can be expected not to make typos, maybe? I mean, it would be bad if we made typos when doing pretty much any privileged action.
yesterday, by Cody Gray
You keep writing "we" - who is "we"? — Jeanne Dark 3 mins ago
 
Some nice volunteers have made a library in different languages that can be used to communicate with chat. They call it "ChatExchange".
 
@Scratte well... so can I :) [accidentally typo and send it the JavaScript room] So, I do not think potential typos are an issue
 
11:10 PM
@CodyGray You just gave me another good reason why I cannot be a moderator :)
 
@CodyGray sorry, Sam and I - because, well, currently we are the only ones maintaining it for Node.js
I like working on it very much because it makes writing bots in Node.js a blast - and is freaking reusable
 
Reusable code, imagine that!
I've heard of "modular". If it's in Node, does that make it "nodular"?
 
@CodyGray well, from what I learned over the years, it is not a very common occurrence :)
I think it reusability makes many feel like they are not working "hard enough" when instead they are missing out on the time they can spend learning how to do thing instead of gluing together boilerplate
@CodyGray darn, NPM missed out on a great marketing stick
@CodyGray I see the meeting is very engaging
 
Sometimes you have to pretend to be part of the Stupid Meeting™
 
Yeah. You're getting less than your normal 10%.
Down to probably 3%
 
11:20 PM
oh, that's quite an engaging meeting then
 
@OlegValter Yeah, I sometimes feel that way. I have a reusable framework of stuff, and it vastly simplifies a lot of what I do.
@OlegValter It doesn't have to be engaging in the least in order to take time.
 
@CodyGray yeah, and speeds up things too. Granted, it sometimes feels like "oh, well, that is all I needed to do to set it up? No pain in the ass for hours? Definitely something is off"
@CodyGray that is true
on a related note, no contractor response yet?
 
It also avoids tons of bugs
 
yeah
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 1 min ago, by Makyen
@manro If they hadn't used whitespace to indicate code blocks, it would have been an OK language.
 
@OlegValter the team Sheriff from country that doesn't exist [Transnistria] beat Real Madrid in greatest ever ranking difference victory between teams. Everything can if they speak Russian.
 
11:25 PM
I am the new gunr
 
@OlegValter But that's the only reason I want to learn Python :)
 
@bad_coder huh?
 
Why not just learn Whitespace?
 
@OlegValter it is true.
 
Or is it not false?
 
11:27 PM
I ping the Vickel from Fovi lounge, he soccer expert. Can confirm.
 
@CodyGray apparently, Whitespace also makes use of tabs
 
I suppose I could try using the vertical tab more.
 
@bad_coder apparently they [the team] are from Moldova?
 
@OlegValter Of course. Tabs are Whitespace.
 
11:28 PM
@OlegValter it is all mother Russia. The border is disputed.
 
@CodyGray well, yeah :)
 
Did y'all ever find Father Russia? Is he still lost?
 
Father Russia is currently known as Ukraine :)
they chose their family name after the divorce
@bad_coder If I were them, I would run away from my country as fast as I could...
 
@OlegValter mmm, I never commented on that. Last time (and perhaps the first time) we spoke about how you perceive your country you expressed a negative image - perhaps with many due reasons of concern.
 
@OlegValter Ah. That makes sense, then.
 
11:35 PM
@bad_coder I know you didn't :) Sorry, I can't help myself when it comes to that
 
@OlegValter one argument...Between Yeltsin's time and now: How much did minimum wage increase? Wealth? Employment? etc... I think Russia has come a long way in a relatively short time.
 
Uh oh. Don't ask about the US. Those metrics may show that we have regressed in a relatively short time. :-)
 
Of course, wealth is no substitute for individual freedom, civil rights, guarantees. But, economic development has a way of bringing political change with it (hopefully for the better).
 
@bad_coder it is not hard to get an increase in wealth and employment if your starting point is a ruined country after 75 years of idiotic management :)
it is much harder to do so when oil prices are not 140$ a barrel anymore too
 
@OlegValter well, then you have a democracy to build. In Portugal fascism only ended in 74 with the Carnation revolution and in Spain sometime between 75-82 after Franco's death
Believe me, it's a several decade long process at the very least...
 
11:41 PM
@bad_coder we don't anymore :) that ended in 2012 (admittedly earlier. And if we are honest, it ended right back then in year 2000), we are slowly building another USSR
 
@OlegValter for Russia the recent surge in Oil and Gas prices is actually excellent economically. You're looking two very profitable quarters right now.
 
@OlegValter Maybe you'll get it right this second time!
 
@bad_coder yeah, I can recount the names of citizens by hand who are looking to be very profitable in the next quarters due to the surge in oil and gas prices :)
 
@OlegValter hey, you get to cast a vote in the ballots. Any government has to make some concessions in those circumstances.
 
@bad_coder you are assuming these ballots matter :) but election fraud in my country is not something I can talk about without fear of later repercussions
 
11:43 PM
@OlegValter Oligarchs don't pay taxes locally? The deficit and commercial import/export balance reflects overall on prices.
 
@bad_coder hahahahaha :) They do. The problem is, they are the government.
 
@OlegValter well, then don't. I'll google it (had no idea...)
 
@CodyGray they say third time's the charm :)
 
@OlegValter another argument: Would you prefer the banana republic model?
 
@bad_coder I think you got our system wrong then, we are the banana republic model right now. It is exactly the way things work right now in my country. And it is horrible
 
11:46 PM
(I've been itching to ask Braiam about the history of his country, but... Someone might resent that, and it probably wouldn't be him.)
@OlegValter (joke): They grow bananas in Russia? :O
@OlegValter At a time when almost every western country is with an increasing debt, I heard Russia could afford to bolster their gold reserves...
 
@bad_coder import banana from "ecuador"
@bad_coder foreign debt is not a bad thing, it is a common fallacy to think that "no debt" in capitalistic global economy is a bad thing
 
for banana in Russia: print(🍌 , ☭)
 
besides, who cares about gold reserves when they only ones who stand to benefit from it have nothing to do with the normal citizens of the country?
 
@OlegValter hey, that's not exactly...2021 thinking...There are countries that can only afford to pay public servants another 3 months of salary before bankruptcy (the news is saying the US won't have money after Christmas.)
@OlegValter you understand that without gold reserves interest on foreign loans is so high the country goes into a state of only affording the interests on the debt?
 
Meh
You realize that the state with the largest amount of gold reserves is in precisely that state?
 
11:53 PM
@bad_coder get back to me after Christmas with updates on how these predictions went :)
 
@CodyGray well, you realize the poorest countries in the world buy US debt just because it has stability. If they need a quick cash flow they can sell.
 
@bad_coder my point is: gold reserves mean little when your government drives any innovation out with extremely convoluted laws, corrupted officials, puppet judges, and political charges should you not align with the mainline of the party.
 
Sometimes people make "predictions" for the world to believe them and hence getting to that state.. it's very lucrative for them when it works our.
 

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