00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00
12:02 AM
@Tony_Henrich If you look at the keyboard while you type, you look back up when you stop and will see the counter then. If you agree the counter is preferable, I don't know why the hard stop is in the question title. I disagree that a hard stop is a good idea, and I've given my reasons why and an explanation of how it would cause problems to users. If you're not convinced by those reasons, that's okay. We don't have to agree. — jpmc26 22 secs ago
2 hours later…
1:40 AM
Then the question is never re-opened. A troll cannot affect this; anyone can vote to re-open. Note that this is not going to affect your question ban either way. — Cody Gray ♦ 53 secs ago
2:00 AM
Better yet, and perhaps easier, just give us a way to mark items as “read”. Dropping down the menu and having it immediately mark all 542 notifications in my inbox as “read” is supremely annoying, and makes the feature almost useless for me. There’s no way I can read all that at one go. My browser crashes before I can open all those tabs. Much less if I just want to “peek”. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
What do you mean it is not going to affect my question ban? Do you mean I have no chance of asking any more questions? — Bobtroopo 36 secs ago
2:22 AM
2:38 AM
Question bans are related to the overall score of your contributions. In other words, votes are the relevant metric, not whether a question is closed. The way to dig yourself out of a question ban is to improve your existing questions so that they will hopefully get upvotes. One commonly missed fact about this is that the metric includes deleted questions. — Cody Gray ♦ 50 secs ago
You have 7 deleted questions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Unfortunately, most of these do not appear to be salvageable. I suppose you'd be better off focusing on your questions that have not been deleted. I also highly recommend reading how to create a minimal reproducible example. — Cody Gray ♦ 55 secs ago
2 hours later…
4:28 AM
I don't see how it got 4 re-open votes... Asking question about why someone else code that they did not show does not work is very hard... The right way would be to create MRE where it happens (but I seriously doubt you can create one)… without it the question is just "what style of code you like" which is appropriately closed as opinion-based now. — Alexei Levenkov 1 min ago
I've edited out "troll" and "question ban" portions as not directly related to the question. @CodyGray provided nice information for both of these side remarks in comments. I think question now is in reasonable shape as valid "support" question. Bobtroopo - feel free to improve or revert the edit (also I'd strongly recommend removing at least "troll" part if you decide to revert). — Alexei Levenkov 1 min ago
3 hours later…
7:26 AM
Possible duplicate of When is it appropriate to create a tag, and how does it work? — gnat 1 min ago
8:02 AM
Being new does not excuse one from having their content scrutinized the same way as other content. The way to avoid downvotes is to care for post quality, not appeal to emotion. — StoryTeller - Unslander Monica 48 secs ago
@StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica Yep, I understand that votes are fair to reflect the quality despite of other factors. But why when I answer question to a new contributor, it show me "xxx is a new contributor, be nice, and check..."? It sounds like the excuse holds. — Akuta Hinako 8 secs ago
@AkutaHinako - That is StackExchange forgetting its own principles in a misguided attempt to be "more welcoming". The idea is to avoid snark and demeaning language. However, it can send the wrong message, such as you discovered. — StoryTeller - Unslander Monica 52 secs ago
8:36 AM
meta.google.com would be a more appropriate place to ask this question. Pity it doesn't exist. — yivi 49 secs ago
8:52 AM
That specific Q/A turns up for me now in Google. One of the problems might be that the error message is put in a code block, which might make that Google gives it less importance. Maybe the error message gets SEO optimized if it is put inside quotation markdown instead. — rene 8 secs ago
9:02 AM
@rene That's my assumption too. I plan to revise the question in due time and see if there's any effect. Would be useful to know because it would give more reason to improve questions where text is incorrectly formatted as code. — Gert Arnold 1 min ago
9:16 AM
It is too old. You have to click on "More results from stackoverflow.com" to find it, then it becomes the 3rd hit. The reason they do this is far too depressing to discuss, be sure to chase "more results". — Hans Passant 1 min ago
9:46 AM
You have it backwards, that's somebody that is fully aware that their question sucks but doesn't know what to do about it. Pretty much the opposite of the average "new contributor". In the somewhat unlikely case that it gets a good answer anyway it can be easily cleaned up. — Hans Passant 24 secs ago
You have it backwards, that's somebody that is fully aware that their question sucks but doesn't know what/want to do anything about it. Pretty much the opposite of the average "new contributor". In the somewhat unlikely case that it gets a good answer anyway it can be easily cleaned up. — Hans Passant 12 secs ago
It's closed as "Need more focus", not "Too broad" or "Unclear". If I misunderstood which point on the learn more page is relevant, then I think the learn more page is to blame, not me. — arnt 25 secs ago
Not when I look at it...but there is A/B testing of new Close Notices at the moment — Paulie_D 54 secs ago
10:26 AM
It looks like a Team with that name never got created, that's why accessing the URL gives you a 404. I cannot find any errors in our logs either so I can't really tell if anything went wrong. Can you try again to create your Teams instance? Once you've created your Team successfully, you should see a page saying "Your Team has been created!" and your Team should be available for you instantaneously. If that doesn't work out, would you mind sending an email to [email protected]? That way we can better help you troubleshoot. — Ham Vocke ♦ 52 secs ago
11:04 AM
Upvote the answers you get if you believe they are good and useful; and pay it forward by contributing positively to the site: post good content, suggest good edits, etc. — yivi 58 secs ago
11:58 AM
Imagine being this angry about people being nice to other people. — Lightness Races with Monica 1 min ago
@Wildcard It is not a "lifestyle". A lifestyle is what pub you go to or what clothes you wear or what music you listen to. Who you are is not a "lifestyle". I cannot emphasise that enough. — Lightness Races with Monica 1 min ago
With due respect, this policy is ridiculous. It has nothing whatsoever to do with SO not being a “reform school”. A SO user is caught intentionally abusing the system and SO policy, as stated by you, is to do nothing. Uhm? — This is apart from the fact that DSSE is obviously not Medium, it’s very much part of the same network as SO. — Konrad Rudolph 1 min ago
12:46 PM
In other words, you have ridiculed me, and the fact that your answer goes on and on wondering what "do you want", bullet after bullet, only adds to the picture. Far from respectful and appreciative, this attitude is insulting and, I regret to say, perhaps even borderline immoral. (3/5) — desertnaut 6 secs ago
Verbal assurances of appreciation and respect are of course a dime a dozen; such attitudes are actually tested in practice. So, in practice, turns out you didn't bother to actually read my specific question (in your last comment, you still think that the issue is a flag rejection), preferring instead to answer a different one that you thought I must in fact be asking under the hood; in doing so, you have actually depicted me as some mysterious guy with unclear motivations, who is seriously wondering (and actually asking) why you, SO mods, don't moderate and police the whole Internet. (2/5) — desertnaut 36 secs ago
Before leaving, as you and the community are certainly entitled to an explanation... (1/5) — desertnaut 54 secs ago
To be clear, my decision to leave is not solely upon you here, but, you know, there is always a last straw that breaks the camel's back; talking about appreciation and respect and acting otherwise has become something of an SO feature. So, let me hereby extend my sincere best wishes for the future to you and the community, and, as I already said, goodbye and thanks for all the fish... (5/5) — desertnaut 1 min ago
If you were "just expressing that I must be missing something, given the huge gap", as you claim, you have hidden it very well, as it is nowhere to be seen in your answer; if my question was unclear, you should have asked for clarification; if you thought that the question was why you don't moderate the Internet, you should have closed it as off-topic. And if I chose to come back for more after you had answered the specific question as written, this decision was mine to made, and you should not have taken it beforehand in my name, much less acting upon it and depicting me as you did. (4/5) — desertnaut 1 min ago
My immediate response to such questiions is to stop reading them, downvote and move on. — Martin James 49 secs ago
1:28 PM
"Too broad" was by far my most used close reason. I've almost stopped casting close votes because no close reasons fits that type of question now. — Roland 9 secs ago
-1 because none of the 3 are a valid reasons: 1. As @matteo says, there's no reason why a 1-char edit would be less substantial than a multi-charchar one. Adding a '-' is much more significant than removing "Thanks in advance for your help", and also in fact requires more review. 2. What if the person before me did all the substantial edits to make everything perfect, but made a 1-char typo? Where can I find 5 more chars to improve? 3. You could solve this by not bumping small edits. But as said, there's no reason these would be less substantial, so that doesn't even make sense. — PieterNuyts 1 min ago
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What I wonder is there's even upvotes to this question I supposed it would be tons of downvotes ;) — Akuta Hinako 28 secs ago
2:04 PM
@Frederico Mattos: I may have seen Telegram in passing, but I had to look it up to understand was it was. Amd I have seen a lot... — Peter Mortensen 26 secs ago
@Frederico Mattos: I may have seen Telegram in passing, but I had to look it up to understand what it was. And I have seen a lot... Telegram Messenger has not been added and will be public soon. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
@Frederico Mattos: I may have seen Telegram in passing, but I had to look it up to understand what it was. And I have seen a lot... Telegram Messenger has not been added and will be public soon. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
2:46 PM
"Does the community think that the standing policy described here needs to be amended?" Hard to say with such a niche question whether "the community" will even know to weigh in, on top of the uncertainty regarding the situation: isn't this post just your personal position? Typically moderators are quite explicit when putting forth official moderator team positions. — TylerH 46 secs ago
3:04 PM
Yeah, we have to face it, it's mostly out of our hands. Google gives (much) higher ranking to fuzzy matches in header tags than exact matches in the page body. Well, would have saved me a lot of time if they didn't. At least, @HansPassant's comment makes me pay more attention to these links below search results that for whatever reason I've got accustomed to to ignore. — Gert Arnold 1 min ago
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This is the Stack Overflow Meta site. Questions should be about the Stack Overflow website or community. Also, requests for off-site resources such as books or tutorials, or in this case exercises, are off-topic on the Stack Overflow main site as well. Visit the Help Center for more information. — Mihai Chelaru 7 mins ago
4:06 PM
they all are attempts and I am pretty sure he wanted to give the 6 attempts as different answers, this is common in CSS — Temani Afif 43 secs ago
@Tom if we consider the initial state where the asker gives all of them as answers, I guess the purpose was to make them all different answers — Temani Afif 1 min ago
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@JoeW all the answers works but have downsides they call them issues even in the attempt 6 kept as answer — Temani Afif 1 min ago
Then maybe it should just have been one long answer. "Here's 6 different options that all aren't perfect." — Cerbrus 2 mins ago
What is the purpose of self answering a question 6 times with answers that have issues and don't fully work? — Joe W 4 mins ago
5:18 PM
6:24 PM
The passage of 4 years is exactly why you wouldn’t ping Brad, @yivi. To other moderators or experienced users, the motivation for his actions should be self-evident. If they’re not, and we determine him to have made a mistake, we can simply correct it. There doesn’t need to be any focus on or even mention of who the original moderator was. (Also, Brad’s busy with Real Life, and I really don’t think this is worth his attention right now.) — Cody Gray ♦ 22 secs ago
@AkutaHinako - There are users who take voting personally. So by projection they upvote regardless of post quality. Sucks, but there you have it. — StoryTeller - Unslander Monica 1 min ago
6:56 PM
@Rodia People here are just voicing their opinions and they are often wrong. To beat the review queue you should follow what is being practiced by reviewers, not what is recommended on meta. For code only answers you should vote "delete" because such answers (in my experience) are deleted more often than not. The problem on SO is that to learn best practices you need access to VLQ which requires 2k rep. — StaceyGirl 1 min ago
Disagree @Cody (in a general sense, not because I like pinging mods, or because I think Brad is in any way obliged to respond). I believe the way the question is framed only Brad can answer it. Other users (diamonds or not) can offer (pretty well informed) guesses and opinions, but only the specific moderator can answer it. It is possible to frame the question in such a way that can be answered by the community, but only the actor can really answer "was this a mistake or was it intentional". — yivi 1 min ago
must be going site by site as my MSE rep reflects +10 votes for questions, but not SO yet — psubsee2003 1 min ago
7:22 PM
but it will also be applied retroactively. A global reputation recalculation is pending and will be completed soon. Really?? I imagine people having all they Rep doubled — Temani Afif 46 secs ago
We already have newbies complaining about these simple questions with hundreds of upvotes. Not very welcoming to double the score of these, forcing the poor new stackoverflowers to work even harder to catch up! — Patrice 23 secs ago
Nothing to apologise for Ben, user error at the end of the day, and a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things even if there was. Still, appreciated none the less. — RyanfaeScotland 57 secs ago
Not that I actually care but, since the score was 10 then got lowered to 5 and now back up to 10 again. What happens to those points earned 2007-2010 that was worth 10, will they be 15 when this recalculation is done? — Andreas 29 secs ago
At this point I'm more and more surprised that we still come to SO. This might not last long, though. I feel so betrayed... — Denys Séguret 1 min ago
@Patrice The score for questions won't be doubling. Just the reputation gained by the askers because of the upvotes. The score will remain the same. The only real change is that there will be more users with more reputation. Some privileges (such as upvoting), will be awarded much sooner, which I guess can in turn can feed into this mechanic as well... — yivi 1 min ago
I actually agree with this. Perhaps not the retroactive. But then again why should they not be same values as new upvotes. I find it way harder to write a question than a answer. And usually answers get far more upvotes than questions that can take up to hours to write good. A simple 5 min answer can get more points than it actually should in just a few minutes. — Andreas 1 min ago
"How the community feels about it?" The community will express their feelings by downvoting a correct answer? That would be a bit childish, I think. — yivi 59 secs ago
@Zoe Nothing wrong with downvoting this question, if you disagree with the policy changes. I obviously expected it to happen, and it's a perfectly valid way for the community to signal its opinion. It's a big part of the reason why I posted this question in the first place. — Cody Gray ♦ 41 secs ago
This is a great question, because now a terrible question can still net reputation even if it has a vote ratio of 1-10. — Goose 49 secs ago
My fervent opposition to this change has nothing to do with the fact that I have only ever asked one question on SO. — ekhumoro 14 secs ago
It's answered in the announcement question that I posted. Sorry for dupe-hammering. I understand why you think it's not a duplicate. On the other hand, I'd prefer to keep the questions and feedback related to this change in one central place. That's why I marked this as a duplicate. — Cody Gray ♦ 31 secs ago
Who's raising a stink? Even if staff do not care about meta opinion I still think it's interesting to see the meta opinions. — wim 54 secs ago
Again, @Conspicuous, that's why this Meta question exists. But...please post answers, instead of comments. — Cody Gray ♦ 59 secs ago
It is unfortunate that we can not directly comment upon the blog post where this announcement was made, as it makes one feel like the operators of SO are unconcerned with established users' viewpoints on the matter. — Conspicuous Compiler 1 min ago
@JohnMontgomery oh, you're right I think. Still, the ratio is now twice as forgiving to bad questions, which I think is a problem — Goose 2 mins ago
You are not a grumpy old man, you are just fundamentally flawed in your thinking and social behavior. It is absolutely not necessary to put in a lot of effort before you ask on stackoverflow. At least it shouldn't be. The reason you think otherwise is only to protect your own past efforts. It is but more humble to just give it away as long as the one asking did at least check the obvious solutions. Why do you want to make him go through the trouble of trying different approaches when you could just as easily tell him what to do? That is just arrogant (cf. "homework"). — Jens Mander 41 secs ago
Yeah, you beat me to the punch. I thought the team would be posting an announcement on Meta, but they just gave us the blog post which has no feedback mechanism. So I had to write an announcement myself. You've been around long enough to know that the age of a question is not an especially relevant factor in marking it as a duplicate. Yes, if you have a question, comment, or concern about the policy, that can be posted as an answer to the main question. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
Rebuild trust by avoiding any discussion a priori ? Rebuild trust by pretending the problem is the whistle-blower and not the decisions made behind walls ? Rebuild trust by breaking the contract which made us answer, that is that "reputation" was also a measure of problem solving ability and technical knowledge and had some kind of value ? This is not rebuilding trust, it's just definitely killing it. — Denys Séguret 1 min ago
Note that the rep cost for having your answer downvoted is still far less than the rep gained from having your answer upvoted. Does that policy make sense to you? And, if so, why should questions be any different? — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
I completely understand the sentiment here, and have had similar feelings myself. A couple of things to keep in mind, just as devil's advocate. First, although staff didn't discuss this with the community at large, they did share it with moderators in private channels, and they did listen to our feedback. What was announced today is not the same as what was originally drafted. That's a huge step forward, so it deserves recognition. Second, the lower-level staff who is responsible for implementing the day-to-day business of Q&A is not the same staff who has the authority to rebuild trust. — Cody Gray ♦ 2 mins ago
@adeneo A knowledge base cannot exist without high-quality questions to solicit good answers. The reputation system isn't valuing knowledge at all. Rather, it is valuing your contributions to the Stack Overflow knowledge base (and thus serves as an indirect proxy for your familiarity and experience with this platform). The fundamental thought behind this policy is that good questions are a net positive contribution to the Stack Overflow knowledge base. Content that is not good can and should continue to be signaled by downvotes, whether questions or answers. — Cody Gray ♦ 16 secs ago
@CodyGray To be honest, no, it doesn't make sense to me. If it was my decision to make, the rep cost would be symmetric -10/+10 for both questions and answers. — wim 2 mins ago
Stack Overflow has always had trouble clearing review queues. The close vote review queue has hovered around 10k questions since it was introduced. It's also worth pointing out that these changes have been planned for months, and it's something that some of the CMs and moderators have been thinking about doing for years. This isn't a cynical ploy to increase the number of users with moderation privileges. Even if it were, it wouldn't work. Moderating this site is a lot of effort, and it requires dedicated users, not just scores on a scoreboard. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
It's not coming off as a deflection in the process of rebuilding trust to me. It feels like twisting the knife. This was not discussed with the community, not what the community wanted (per this), and not what it needed. — Erik A 13 secs ago
I agree with your overall premise, but if a question gets downvoted 9 times and upvoted once, wouldn't that still put them at a net -8 rep? — John Montgomery 1 min ago
It's now the same as with answers. Do you see that as encouraging people to write lower-quality answers? Why would questions be any different? — Cody Gray ♦ 11 secs ago
I suspect there will be a temporary bump in some if not all of those, however I also expect it to return to the same baseline. — Kevin B 21 secs ago
@CodyGray "Second, the lower-level staff who is responsible for implementing the day-to-day business of Q&A is not the same staff who has the authority to rebuild trust." - while I feel this is true, it certainly doesn't help that Sara is the one to make this blog. At this point, there's clear negative sentiment built up based on her involvement with pronoun-gate and fallout. Thus by posting this blog it feels like complete disregard of the aforementioned more pressing issues. — Mysticial 19 secs ago
I don't have real strong feelings either. But at the moment it feels like, "We're getting negative attention for awful things we did. Here's some free points!" — Scott Hannen 18 secs ago
I worry this could mean lower quality questions on a site where low quality questions is an issue. I found Shog's answer here interesting. — SecretAgentMan 33 secs ago
And boy do some of us miss Jeff, and those great times, before the vultures took over — adeneo 2 mins ago
I suspect that question bans are based on upvote/downvote ratio rather than reputation, and that they're more important for keeping askers of bad questions away than reputation. — DavidW 57 secs ago
@DenysSéguret That's exactly the sentiment that me and probably a lot of other users are having right now. You should really post your comment as an answer. — Marco Bonelli 1 min ago
"Rewarding even s##t questions will encourage more investment in SO by the askers, hopefully ultimately resulting in better questions." -- hrmm, that's a real slippery slope of an argument. — Marco Bonelli 1 min ago
This is not the place to have that debate, @JL2210. See meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/391250, where you can weigh in as your heart desires. — Cody Gray ♦ 31 secs ago
This has been the case for as long as SO has existed, reenforced by the fact that you earn the ability to upvote first and all of the wording around downvotes discourages you from using them. — Kevin B 50 secs ago
@MathieuGuindon - Thanks! I'm very used to just typing
[so]
and looking at the logos so don't often spell it myself! — Sayse 17 secs agoWhat, isn't fighting other gold badge holders who reopen the question you just dupe-voted, because they had just typed an answer when you did so, reward enough? — CodeCaster 38 secs ago
I like this. Finding accurate dupes is so terribly under-rated. But, it's "Stack Overflow" not "StackOverflow" ;-) — Mathieu Guindon 2 mins ago
Retroactively recalculating reputation is just a huge break of trust. This should not be happening, ever. — Erwin Brandstetter 1 min ago
What exactly is the benefit in doing this retroactively? Why rewrite reputation? — Josh Crozier just now
@CodeCaster - Its not a real fight unless they're over 100k rep and telling you you're making it an unwelcoming place too — Sayse 49 secs ago
Many users want to comment (in general, not just related to their own questions) and now it only requires half the effort (if only asking questions). — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
Most of my reputation has come from question asking so far. But honestly I think the 5/10 split was fair: it's harder and less gratifying to write an answer, and the question-asker usually has some real-world benefit to getting their question answered as well. Questions definitely have a lot of value, but I think answers have even more value. This is not a horrible change, but I'm a little unsure whether it's the right one. Have there not been enough high-quality questions? — Stephen 1 min ago
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