« first day (3295 days earlier)      last day (1657 days later) » 

mr5
12:46 AM
@user10864482 u w0t m8?
4 messages moved to Trash can
 
mr5
1:09 AM
11 messages moved to Trash can
3 messages moved to Trash can
 
 
3 hours later…
4:32 AM
hey guys
 
4:56 AM
@Rob remember our async conversation
do you agree with this?
asynchronous means two or more operations are running in different contexts (thread) so that they can run concurrently and do not block each other.
 
posted on October 23, 2019 by Scott Hanselman

I've blogged at length about the great open source project called "Polly" NuGet Package of the Week: Polly wanna fluently express transient exception handling policies in .NET? Adding Cross-Cutting Memory Caching to an HttpClientFactory in ASP.NET Core with Polly The Programmer's Hindsight - Caching with HttpClientFactory and Polly Part 2 Adding Resilience and Transient Fault handling to y

 
@Feeds shut up
 
mr5
Visual Studio for Mac finally have added a feature that actually works:
- Every time you create/add a file to the project, IntelliSense will not work for the next 5 minutes. Copy&Paste will not also work.
- Having perfected the System.Random, MS decides to make some files not recognizeable and disabling this feature would require you to restart the IDE a random times also.
 
5:23 AM
Gooood moorniiiing CeeeeShaaaarp!
@mr5 Why are you using Mac again?
 
i am
actually
 
Is there any way to make proper judgment on office politics? Nothing unethical (those are obvious), I'm actually talking about subtle everyday things on just how to go about doing stuff when lead and PM disagree. Isn't the 'right' thing always to do what the PM says? My lead would like to intentionally not bring things up to avoid large and slow turnaround discussions near a deadline. Any ideas?
 
Bring things up. Talk about stuff. Communication is important.
 
Right but usually anything you bring up will cause friction with the opposing party you're not talking to (or the one you are talking to, if you're disagreeing).
 
Just always be ready to tell everyone the consequences of this or that way of reacting
Also with two opposing parties, talk to both at once.
Either get them in a room, or send a mail to both of them.
 
mr5
5:31 AM
@Squirrelkiller only in office
 
They can't be kids, it's an office where adult people work, they have to talk to each other-.
 
mr5
@Squirrelkiller either get them in a room ...and let them fite
 
Rob
@ChristianMatthew No. Again, it has nothing to do with threads
You can do async in javascript in the browser, which is single threaded
 
but it does
 
@mr5 that's the procedure if two PMs give me conflicting directions lol
 
5:33 AM
ok if you say it doesnt' have to do with threads then what does it have to do with in your opinion
 
i just found out I am a legion
 
Sure, I'll just convince the lead to ask the PM if their reasoning is good enough and then it's up to the PM to decide. The logic here is that the PM is the ultimate boss to both of us, so either way it's the correct choice. So it's just some convincing the lead to ask, or warning them that I will have to ask on behalf as I'm also under them and they're higher up (hopefully not the latter, as it's friction-y)
Thanks for the advice. It was probably more of an IPS/workplace question, but appreciate the context from people used to this stuff
 
@ChristianMatthew The point of async is, that you don't have to care about threads. It works without threads, or with threads.
Imagine you making breakfast. Let's say you have exactly one thread, because you need both your hands to do stuff. So you can do one thing at a time.
You want both tea and a sandwich.
You can either put water in the kettle, look at it until it's boiled, and then put the water in a cup, and then make a sandwich.

Or you do it async:
Put water in the kettle.
Make sandwich while kettle boils
@person27 Just make sure to always cover your ass. Get everything in writing (emails) if it gets too friction-y.
Also don't forget to talk to everyone. One boss makes a decision? Make sure to tell the other boss what he decided.
If they can't be adult themselves, you have to make them.
 
@Squirrelkiller I agree that is the point and is not about threads. but i am giving a talk and I am trying to put this is understandable terms.
can we say non-blocking operations?
forget threads if that is the true case
@Rob my problem with his arrticle, besides being overlay verbose, is that it didn't come back to the heart of the issue of why people are saying what they are saying. and
to be honest.
@Rob would it be better to say non-blocking operations?
completed in a single method
 
Rob
5:53 AM
Well, that didn't format properly
 
// when you are doing asynchronus programming with TAP... when you use async Task<T>
// you are unwrapping the method to be T and when you await you are unwrapping that to be whatever it is typed to...
// including the return.

static async Task Main(string[] args)
{
	var watch = System.Diagnostics.Stopwatch.StartNew();
	Coffee cup = PourCoffeeAsync(100);
	Console.Write("coffee is ready\r\n");
	var eggTask = FryEggsAsync(3000);
	var baconTask = FryBaconAsync(4001);
	var toastTask = maketoastWithButterAndJamAsync(5001, 4001, 4001);
i wrote this code
to illustrate the point
 
Rob
See my above link
Hopefully you can see that DoStrings() and DoInts() are running asynchronously without the need for threads
Nor are they parallel
 
parallel meaning concurrent
this is how the msft docs describe TAP
The Task class represents a single operation that does not return a value and that usually executes asynchronously. Task objects are one of the central components of the task-based asynchronous pattern first introduced in the .NET Framework 4. Because the work performed by a Task object typically executes asynchronously on a thread pool thread rather than synchronously on the main application thread, you can
 
Rob
Have you seen my above example?
 
yes
but what is different is special about it
 
Rob
5:57 AM
Not sure what you mean
 
also, it is not asynchronous
 
Rob
It doesn't have the keyword async, no. But that's the point I'm trying to make
We're able to extract a value from DoStrings() after DoInts() starts and before it finishes, as well
async is just a big ol' state machine implemented with... as close as you can get with C#... co-routines
 
so would you agree with non-blocking operations
 
Rob
No, you can have blocking operations as well
Probably not the best approach... but you can write whatever you want
But yes, if it helps, generally you can think of it as not blocking
 
and in order to achieve concurrency you have to fire the operations off at the same time not form them in order or they will be asynchronously synchronous
would you agree with that?
ooo and the wrapper stuff you told me... it was really helpful
do you remember taht
 
6:31 AM
Hi guys
 
awaiting an async method is a bit like removing the leash off your dog, and putting him into a cage to roam free.
 
6:49 AM
huh
lol
i think the most important thing about async programming is the ability to achieve 2 things
a. finalization and b. concurrency
 
*asynchonicity
 
lol is that a thing
 
In the one context your thread isnt currently in, you aren't doing anything.
 
having multiple threads and using only one of those threads is a waste of resources
I can see why you'd do it, but ideally it should be async in order to be used asynchronously
 
concurrency is have four hands and doing both a sandwich and boiling water at once
asynchonicity is turning on the kettle, and forgetting about it until you're done with your sandwich
 
6:53 AM
except you wanted a piece of toast the whole time
sorry bad joke, but I was just trying to imagine why you'd boil water if your objective was to make a sandwich :P
maybe you just really like eggs in your sandwich
 
7:06 AM
morning
 
morning to all europeans
afternoon to asian dwellers
 
Late morningish to Middle Easterners.
 
good late morningish
 
I think the middle east should collectively petition to have itself defined as a continent.
 
I agree. Screw science
 
7:10 AM
I mean, technically, Israel is in Asia. Technically.
@Neil It's all just social constructs anyway.
 
When I was growing up we had 7 continents
it turned into 5 apparently
 
I like Wikipedia's extremely weasely phrasing for anything about those definitions:
A continent is one of several very large landmasses. Generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria, up to seven regions are commonly regarded as continents. Ordered from largest in area to smallest, they are: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia.Geologically, the continents largely correspond to areas of continental crust that are found on the continental plates. However, some areas of continental crust are regions covered with water not usually included in the list of continents. Zealandia is one such area (see submerged continents...
 
Question: The where keyword is reserved in certain contexts, did it used to be the case, in an earlier version of C# perhaps, that it was reserved in all contexts, and that its reservation was narrowed down?
 
> "Generally identified by convention, rather than any strict criteria". "Geologically, the continents largely correspond to". They are "understood to be". "The seven *conventionally recognized continents".
You can invent 17 new ones and no-one could prove you wrong.
 
really what is a continent but a big land mass afterall
hardly a scientific basis
 
7:13 AM
@MadaraUchiha I think it was only introduced with C# 2.0 for generic constraints, and I'm pretty sure it was always contextual.
 
We've seen something like Enumerable.Where(@where) in our code and noticed that the @ is redundant. I was wondering if it wasn't when the code was written.
 
if they wanted to base it on science, they'd do it based on the continental plates
 
@MadaraUchiha Ah, I'm pretty sure it's a Resharper fail. It also auto-prefixes group, even though group is also contextually reserved only inside LINQ query blocks.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Sounds about right
Thanks!
 
@MadaraUchiha Np. This answer seems to suggest that R# does it specifically in LINQ methods, so that if it's then asked to convert the LINQ method chain to LINQ query syntax, it won't need to rename the variable to avoid breaking the code: stackoverflow.com/a/9315572/701054
 
7:32 AM
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos!
 
yo
which means "me" in spanish
 
yo
 
Today is a C# day again. Yay.
 
For me it's a Docker day. I didn't know Docker was so much fun
 
Today is a day of copying libraries we wrote for the previous project and importing them for the new project, while refactoring and discarding project-specific dependencies. Yay.
 
7:44 AM
^^
Sounds fun.
Today I've got "tell the customer what has happend and ask him a bunch of questions" day :D
 
those days are not so fun
oof today I received my VESA arms
it will be a "let's rearrange my whole desk" afternoon. omega yay
 
Well, at least it's doing grunt work in a language I know well. I'm looking at several positions now and some of them are Java- or Python-oriented and I know I'm going to have a couple of months of frustrating "wait, how do I do X again?" there.
 
Avner, I'm sure whatever you do and wherever you go, you won't have the slightest problem when it comes to programming
You are my personal C# Jesus christ, I believe in you
 
Problem? No. Frustration when something that I can do blindfolded in C# takes me 15 minutes in a different language? Certainly.
 
Half the stuff out there is easy to find with one well-made query to Google
 
7:50 AM
@HéctorÁlvarez Desk rearrangement day is always a fun day
 
meh. If it's an algorithm, it's usually pretty straightforward provided you know how to do simple loops and function calls
 
The other half your usual kind of problems, like "how do we guess a shape in GIS if we just have a random assortment of unconnected dots" that nobody has ever had before
 
it's the rest that's the hard part
 
@CaptainObvious even more so today, I bought a new monitor finally
 
there's the C# approach to a problem, and then there's the Haskell approach
or Scala approach, etc.
 
7:51 AM
Made up my mind, can't waste 2k€ on a 4k screen that my computer would be able to use 3 years from now
so I bought an ultrawide 2k
 
The tricky part is changing your headscape to produce code in the "proper" way in that language
 
@Neil Ye true, like you can do stuff like [::1] in python to loop instead of building something human-readable
 
@Neil Yeah, but then you want to avoid an icky for loop and just do some filter expression. My search history is full of "scala linq equivalent", "python linq equivalent" and so on.
 
I'd be honestly really happy not to get a new monitor for work unless it was 2 4K ones so I can fit all my shit on again but smaller
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yeah, in fact. you can do a for loop, but everyone in that language tells you, "We don't do that here.."
 
7:53 AM
I hate 27" 1080p screens (which is what most people here have) because everything is so spread out
 
in #!/bin/bash, 23 hours ago, by mr5
2 messages moved from C#
why were those messages moved to #!/bin/bash? they seem more on-topic here than there (if only vaguely because you have "memes" in your room description)
 
@Neil Also, it's ugly and not expressive.
for loops are foundational building blocks, but they're not very expressive. They're the how, not the what.
 
yeah, well for someone used to for loops, it takes adjusting
 
@tripleee Quite possibly by accident.
 
but it isn't really about being expressive. You tend to avoid for loops in Kotlin for instance
in favor for .forEach
 
7:55 AM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan oh well, thanks for the quick reply
 
it doesn't actually change anything, but it's considered the better way
 
@CaptainObvious I suggest you get ultrawide screens. More resoution also means text will be smaller, unless you use a 150-200% aspect ratio which will make it as big as 1080p, but with much better definition. I have one ultrawide screen for productivity and it's an awesome invention
 
@Neil That's because it's more expressive, and most modern languages will try to for expresiveness. When your logic is "do X for each Y", a foreach loop is expressive - it's literally the logical action you want. A for loop is a very artificial construct that you use to build a loop - "create an index, initialize it, now, after every iteration, check the condition and increment it by so-and-so". This is what you need to explicitly write nin a for loop.
 
It also rocks firmware-enabled features to split the screen in 3 equal chunks so it works like if there were 3 different screens for your use.
 
an implicit loop is just as expressive as a .forEach though
for(item in items) { ... }
 
7:59 AM
Of course, a foreach isn't necessarily the most expressive code either. Often it, too, is used as a building block for a more abstract need. You can use a foreach block to increment a counter for each item that matches a condition, but a collection.Count(i => IsMatch(i)) is the more expressive form.
 
I usually use 150% scaling so there's more stuff. It's fairly well known in here that most of my screens are vertical currently which is excellent for code
 
clearly you mean to do something for each item
 
@Neil Ah, you meant a for..in loop (C#'s foreach), not a C-style for (;;) for loop.
 
0/
 
8:00 AM
Yeah, those are pretty much equivalent to coll.forEach({statement});
In fact, there was an Eric Lippert quote (I think) on why C# explicitly decided against adding Enumerable.ForEach(Action<T> action) to LINQ.
 
so in a language like kotlin where you can use both, but .forEach is preferred, it's entirely aesthetic
 
that's one screen
sorry for the lack of detail
 
So wide
Which is great if you have long lines
 
yep, but the thing is
I can turn on the split mode
and it's like having 3 vertical screens at the same time
I can choose
There are even wider screens out there that split into 2 or 4
 
Also, there's something wholesome about this guy's bloopers (I honestly don't think they're fake): youtube.com/watch?v=iK_h-2kot6s
 
8:03 AM
imagine having a screen that's so big it can split into 2x 27" 16:9 full sized screens lol
 
But vertical screens are the choice because you can get more lines than usual on
 
Forget about vertical, this kind of screen has firmware that splits the screen into several units
it counts as if you have 2 landscape screens, or 4 portrait screens
without borders
side to side
 
8:18 AM
How tall is it
1440px vertically is a downgrade from what I've got now
 
about 37cm
i thinkk
Dimension (W*D*H, mm)
Set (with Stand)

1215.1 x 307.3 x 543.5 (Up)
1215.1 x 307.3 x 433.5 (Down)
but you can go for more inches
My main screen will be 32"
 
I meant the actual panel but whatever
 
i've no idea, i only measure in inches
 
I might see the new joker tomorrow
I will watch it in english
 
8:38 AM
No, that's fine, Microsoft. Please break the entire CosmosDB API in the new SDK, that's fine. Oh, it's also fine that your core class now doesn't have an interface so I can't easily inject or mock it.
 
that's not a nice move
 
@Patrick dummy
 
@Hans1984 dUmMy
 
that's right !
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan +1 point to scala, python, and the likes
 
8:43 AM
There was some ultrawide monitor out there that allowed dual input displayed at the same time (different GPU's or different computers). I was trying to find it.
 
Hello! :)
a User and Address
 
hell
 
@bradbury9 I think you can find PiP support in some panels that are meant to be used as TVs.
 
o
 
is this a composition or aggregation?
a user can have an address
if a user dies his address remains or not?
 
8:48 AM
@Shad What are you trying to model here? Are addresses managed independently of users? Are you managing users who have metadata of type address, or are addresses entities in their own right, assigned to users?
 
entity framework code first
address is a complex type
so appears as a property for user
 
I'm not asking about how the type is defined, but about your business domain.
What will you do with the address? Do you simply need to display it? If so, it's simply metadata of a user. Do you need to group users by country/city/street? Do you need to do spacial operations on it?
 
I just saw an example
I understand it all depends on our requirments.
so it could be either , you mean
 
He means there's not one single way to manage a user and address, that depends entirely on you
 
hmm
<3
 
8:50 AM
Yes. A "user" and "address" don't exist in isolation. They're part of your business domain, which defines your data model.
 
okay.
 
Can I bind every andoid libs via xamarin?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan OK, looks like I need some reading. Starting wtf is PiP and PbP
 
I <3 ResXManager
 
I <3 you all.
 
mr5
8:58 AM
do you love patrick?
 
I |<>| Patrick
 
yes
 
mr5
@ntohl you absolutely don't love patrick?
 
@ntohl Does this mean "I absolutely not Patrick"?
 
!Math.abs(Patrick)
 
9:02 AM
It means I "a spaceship" Patrick
 
ahoy mateys
 
mr5
o/
how's your bot?
 
everyone asks how the bot is, but nobody asks how the bot feels
 
mr5
how do you feel @Patrick?
 
@mr5 hOw dO YoU FeEl ?
 
mr5
9:06 AM
bohoo
 
jokes aside
I faintly remember there was a way to discover services in a REST API from the client side
just like you can install swagger from the server side
something like scanning for exposed endpoints
am I talking shit?
 
mr5
but do you have moves like Swagger?
 
No
you are talking hacking tools
 
@mr5 i started adding some stuff to it last night
 
@HéctorÁlvarez "Endpoint" is misleading. You can port-scan to find open ports, but then you're in HTTP-land and can pass any string as your path.
 
9:11 AM
righty, wrong term then
 
Your server root might expose an OPTIONS verb that shows you a list of endpoints, but that's simply a simpler version of Swagger.
 
@mr5 shameful
 
What I mean is, let's say you designed an API and I want the docs to use it, but you didn't build any, nor did you tell me about how to use it, so I don't know where I have to request the datas
 
alright so these options still have to be enabled server-side, correct?
 
9:12 AM
Sucks that way, yes.
 
aaah, organic fertilizer
 
You need documentation to know what to call. That documentation can be a formal document. It can be an auto-generated document such as the one Swagger generates. It can be tedious reverse-engineering work by taking an existing client (say, a web interface) and examining the traffic.
 
mr5
@CaptainSquirrel noice
 
soap does return the actual envelope structure when you request it wrong, doesn't it?
but you still have to know the URL
 
@HéctorÁlvarez I haven't used it in years, but I'm guessing it returns a SOAP-formatted XML message containing the error.
If it's SOAP, the service might be exposing a WSDL endpoint, the SOAP equivalent of Swagger.
Try appending ?wsdl to the root URL.
 
9:14 AM
hmmm sounds about right, but I remember sending whatever XML structure and being returned a message with placeholders for my inputs
 
@HéctorÁlvarez That's a nice touch by the SOAP server, but I don't think it's defined as part of the protocol.
 
Seems like I don't have access to the APIs from outside the VPN, so I'll have to wait to check
 
Hey, I think I'm getting through to people.
 
Atleast you are getting somewhere Avni

I'm just typing out questions and statements to somebody who is in holiday.
 
mr5
where are you going avni?
 
9:25 AM
stop
 
@Captain Squirrel hammer time!
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
NO BAD
Why did I get a notification for that
Patrixck you're dumb
 
because it was @captain
and not the proper ping
 
Because he didn't remove the space because he's dumb
 
9:27 AM
Or just didn't know
I want to work on my bot, but i cannot
am not being paid to work on bot
 
@Squirrel in training hammer time!
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
xaxaxaxa
I like how nyconing is going nuts aswell
 
Clearly left their bot running
 
9:29 AM
obviously
 
I'd run mine but cba
 
nyconing the new bot
 
Should they... stop?
 
@Squirrel in training hammer time!
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
9:30 AM
stop
 
@Hans1984 hammer time!
 
gud
 
Is it possible to crash them by spamming stop s?
 
@Squirrel in training hammer time!
 
Or atleast have them kicked?
 
9:31 AM
@Squirrelintraining I feel like they left it on by accident
 
I would never stop to believe that!
 
@Squirrel in training hammer time!
 
Did you know it's a real challenge to fit stop in your every sentence?
 
@Squirrel in training hammer time!
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Do you mean as in you're convincing them to not refactor?
 
mr5
9:36 AM
Is it right to say, "remaining duration"?
the word is referring to the remaining TimeSpan on the video player thus the "remaining" prefix
 
I have found a thread in Linus Tech tips forum on widescreens with two different computers. Looks like some manufactures mess with the aspect ratio (provide the OS wrong width info when the display is split from two sources). Some random dude bought and returned several monitors until he found a good behaving one.
Looks like "Samsung CF791" and some google reveals it is Samsung C34F791WQU. A really expensive monitor (about 720 €).
 
mr5
is the screen really made from quantum dots? @bradbury9
 
anyone buying outer worlds tomorrow ?
 
@bradbury9 Reads 720€, reads "expensive", checks order price, shivers
 
How do I start and retrieve data between xam.forms to xam.android?
 
9:43 AM
BTW @Squirrelkiller I'm taking a course right now, course was a correct word, not just "training"
maybe training course would be a more complete term, wholesome if you would say
 
mr5
why not schooling? learning? exercising?
 
Ask Oxford, or Cambridge, or whatever
 
Hello everyone
I need help regarding the error in my project's msi installer
I build msi installer and installed it into my machine .
 
So apparently those 30+ dead people found in the back of a lorry were all chinese nationals
 
msi installer processes XML files but recently I changed database connection into my msi installer and I am getting error like
System.Net.Sockets.SocketException: No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it 127.0.0.1:1184
 
9:58 AM
@CaptainSquirrel :(
sad
 
can anybody tell me how to solve this issue?
 

« first day (3295 days earlier)      last day (1657 days later) »