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00:03
@Machavity @robinCTS No. Don't roll them back. Just leave them. Rolling them back invalidates all spam/rude/abusive flags which were placed on the edited version. Just don't edit to begin with. See: Should spam posts be edited? and What are the “spam” and “rude or abusive” (offensive) flags, and how do they work?
Editing again doesn't invalidate spam/rude/abusive flags, but it does give yet another edit which the OP could rollback (with more partial invalidation of flags).
@MartinJames: Will the madness ever end???
Voting to close as off-topic since rants don't invite discussion.
@Makyen Re-read those links. Learned nothing new. Not that I'll be re-editing an already edited spam/rude or offensive ever again :) but I still don't understand the harm in the specific edit I made on top of the previous one. It improves the chances some drive-by user will flag the post and doesn't change the fact that the OP could still rollback to to first version and invalidate all the flags on the edits.
00:25
@robinCTS It's potential harm. Each edit is yet another rev. accumulating red flags (spam/rude/abusive). The OP could separately rollback each edit, invalidating some of the red flags, resulting in the post existing longer. If you think the post won't get enough red flags with the currently edited version, then a better choice would be to just leave a comment. In my experience, people looking at a post wrt. red-flagging do read the comments, particularly when the comment says why to red-flag.
I've often left explanation comments on spam posts which explain why it's spam (after investigating). Such comments have appeared to help the rate at which people red-flag, but that could be an observational bias.
01:10
@Makyen Thanks for the comment tip. That sounds like a much better way address the damage done by an edit. Still don't agree that separately rolling back edits would result in the post existing longer. In every scenario I can come up with, from the point of view of the spammer, in the best case it makes no difference, and in the worst case rolling back to the previous edit would result in deletion whilst rolling back to the beginning would not.
A worst case example would be a post where the original has no flags, the first edit has five flags, the last of which occurred 4 days prior, and the second (current) edit has none. If the post receives a new flag today, it will be deleted, even if rolled back to the previous edit. Rolling back to the original obviously would not.
@robinCTS Worst case would be edits/flags: original/0, 1st/0, 2nd/5; OP rolls back to 1st (now 0 flags). A savvy OP would have a sock-puppet immediately make a trivial edit to the post as soon as it's up. Then flags accumulate on that revision. The OP can then roll it back when they feel it's getting close to being deleted (as evidenced by downvotes), and make a new edit themselves, upon which they let flags accumulate. Rinse and repeat.
But, meh. The real problem is the first edit, which the OP is likely to rollback, just to have their original post be shown, without knowing the mechanics of the system that makes it beneficial to them.
01:39
@Makyen Yes, I had thought of similar theoretical, but practically impossible, case scenarios, but ruled them out as the OP wouldn't be able to see the flag counts and would just be guessing when to rollback. Even with constantly monitoring the downvotes (good pickup, didn't realise that would be a close correlation with flags), it's not likely to extend the life of the post by much.
Point proven and I concur. It is more a case of "practically quite difficult" with poor results, rather than "theoretical, but practically impossible".
01:51
@MartinJames Just to be clear: the best frozen pizza is Dr. Oetker, fresh dough pizza. They are not pre-baked and qare the only which really expand in the oven. Not sure about the UK Lidls, but our Lidls sell them, too. (But they don't sell Iceland pizzas, maybe because we don't eat much sheep on pizza.
@Olaf lol, pizza is my go-to subject to discuss when an SO user on psychoactive medications is posting while one file short of a build:)
I usually state something like:
Your flux capacitor is malfunctioning, and you must disconnect its retroencabulation driver so that we can help you reprogram its mobile write-only memory protocol.
@MartinJames That explains a lot. I always wondered why we came up with pizza (and food in general) when you had some beer ;-) Anyway, thanks for the link, amusing as always. Maybe we should create a fan-room to offload this one. Somehow I expect more to come.
01:59
My therapist says that I'm fixated on revenge..... .... we'll see about that!
7
@HovercraftFullOfEels It's a flux compensator, not a capacitor.
Oh dang, I must have missed that day of pseudo-physics
@Olaf You're outa time.
and I'm outa write-only memory
@MartinJames Indeed, I always felt like I don't fit in this timeframe. That's why I head for bed now. Good night!
02:01
Gute Nacht
@Olaf Good plan, nite all, afk
 
2 hours later…
03:48
@SmokeDetector The Q needs CV too (second answer is obviously spam). Reason: Request for Off-Site Resource
@EJoshuaS What does NATO mean? (Not/No ? Too Old)
@robinCTS new answers to old questions
@SamuelLiew Thanks.
04:23
@robinCTS New Answers To Old [questions] (NATO) is part of the 10k tools. It lists new answers to questions >30 days old. It's a helpful way to bulk-review such answers. Saying a request is from NATO is used to give people a hint that the cv-pls is for an old question with new activity, because, generally, we don't cv-pls old questions.
@Makyen Hand crafted like above is ok?
@robinCTS [disables all userscripts and loads a new tab, so I can see what was actually posted] Yeah, that looks good. The minimum, general, format is [tag:cv-pls] close reason https://stackoverflow.com/q/12345, so you did more than what's required. Thanks.
04:38
@Makyen Yeah - didn't think adding the primary tag was useful in this particular case. (I know it's not strictly required, except for dupes.)
I should probably install some of the userscripts, especially SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers.
@robinCTS I was just writing: As I'm working on the scripts (userscript or bookmarklet), I'm wondering why you choose to create requests by hand instead of use the scripts. The scripts exist to make the process more convenient (but hand creation is just fine). I'm (mostly) wondering if there's something we've done that makes using them inconvenient for you (i.e. what might be changed to let you and anyone in a similar situation use the scripts).
@robinCTS No, the primary tag is not required, but for duplicate requests (and no MCVE, depending on the issue) it's strongly desired. The minimum requirements are just the cv-pls tag, the close reason, and a URL to the question.
@Makyen The above request was only my second request ever (and the second one today!), so I hadn't bothered to install any of the scripts yet. Plus I'm mostly working the CV queue at the moment (agile tag; then filtered for off-topic), and Triage (I can easily use 10-15 cvs there!) then burning any remaining cvs on requests here. I've already had a look at the scripts and so far they seem excellent. Will give more feedback after I install and use them.
04:56
@robinCTS Congrats! OK. No problem. Yeah, 50 close votes can go fairly quick. It'd be nice if we had more, it took fewer to actually close, and/or they didn't age away w/o the OP editing the question. Thanks. Feedback is always appreciated.
05:22
\o morning
!!/tea
@SurajRao brews a cup of lemon tea for @SurajRao
06:02
Quick Q.. In answers like stackoverflow.com/a/39073612/4826457 which has non english content.. do we flag VLQ?
06:16
2
Q: Should we burninate [hackerrank]

Passer ByLet me preface this by saying I do have a bias against "code challenge" sites. With that out of the way, here goes. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? In one use case, it tags questions from hackerrank, it doesn't describe the contents...

@SurajRao Yes, answers get flag as VLQ; questions get vote-to-close as unclear: How do I deal with non-English content?
@Makyen I have seen it. This one didnt look like the typical non english answer..Looks like it is part of logs and code..Thanks flagging it
@SurajRao If it was just the logs and/or code, that might be a different issue. However, I'd probably still go with the standard directions, unless it's something that doesn't actually affect the Q/A (e.g. some variable names are not in English). However, that gets into a judgement call. For this specific answer, there's a significant amount of the prose which is not in English. A translation indicates that the non-English text is relevant to the answer, so I'd say it needs to be in English.
06:34
@SmokeDetector Copied from whatis.techtarget.com/definition/firmware and spam link
@SurajRao However, given the age of the answer we can't flag as VLQ. Given it's age (> 1 year), I've left a comment for the author (active 1 month ago) and set a reminder to revisit the question/answer in 11 days to see if it's been edited into English.
@Makyen yes.. I had to use NAA here..It will go to the same queue
@SurajRao True, there's not much of a difference between the two flags and that's a fine way to handle it. I was just thinking that, given the > 1 year age and that the OP hasn't totally abandoned SO, it might be reasonable to try to nudge the OP into editing. But, NAA is probably the correct/official way to handle it.
06:59
@KenWhite needs a reject edit
@SurajRao Yes, it did, and done.
07:48
Came across this old question in the LQ queue (@ 4cv now): C# development for Chromecast. Would like some feedback. Too Broad / Request for Off-Site Resource or is it OK?
@robinCTS imho it's too broad, double barreled question and both questions are pretty broad. But it's already closed now
@ErikvonAsmuth Thanks. I'd already voted it down, but it completed review without being closed.
^ down <-> closed
@FelixPalmen Another time, that question would have been deleted by Roomba in 6 days.
user2371524
08:05
@Makyen good to know
08:19
@PetterFriberg you were ninja'ed ^
sorry... was also checking NAA :D, I'm getting old and slow
Did you C++ people see this
8
:D, nice I guess Mysticial's image is valid for most high traffic tags
yeah, that is sadly true.
incorrectly delete from LQP queue stackoverflow.com/a/47499589/5292302, is it worth a mod flag for un deletion?
08:31
@PetterFriberg or ask here? I voted to undelete
ok I will edited it some first
08:45
@PatrickHofman you scared the OP ...
@rene Is that a good thing? ;)
09:07
^ link only question
Ron
Ron
Hello all. How are you all feeling on this glorious Monday?
!!/coffee !!/coffee !!/coffee
@AjayBrahmakshatriya brews coffee for @AjayBrahmakshatriya
@AjayBrahmakshatriya you only get one :p
09:15
Jokes on Smokey, I already had 3 :p
@PatrickHofman I tend to say yes, but YMMV ... might also depends on how close we are to Halloween.
Ron
Ron
thinking about starting up a start-up
09:31
HomeWorkDumpOverflow.com?
Ron
Ron
@rene That C++ screenshot is hilarious.
It is, yes.
Ron
Ron
And sadly true.
No, @Ron, this going to be an happy monday, not the depressing mood you'll seem to be able get into ....
Ron
Ron
I stand corrected. Happy mode on.
runs out of happy off topic one-liners for SOCVR
10:08
\o
@Ron like Life is like a box of chocolates. It melts when it gets too hot.
Ron
Ron
Any vmware workstation users in here?
10:24
@Ron I am
Ron
Ron
@krlzlx Can I have two hardware keyboards and two mices where one set would work for host machine and the other only for a VM?
Ron
Ron
@krlzlx Awesome, thanks.
@Ron You're welcome. I hope it works.
10:34
@JonClements looks like it did metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/… .. added to watch list
Odd - it's got SEO in there - it's a new account - it ends with a link etc... would have thought that'd have triggered it...
Thanks though :)
 
1 hour later…
Ron
Ron
11:44
"Will you be willing to learn Java and Android development?" Times are tough. Ron must eat.
4
 
2 hours later…
13:35
@YvetteColomb Has some code added
user3956566
@Machavity thanks for the heads up
morning
@Ron You could work for @Compass. All he requires is a belly rub, the occasional designer salad and walking his dog
He might only pay you in bread, tho
Isn't Compass obsessed with Taco Bell?
He was, but he's been on a salad thing of late
@Machavity we should all eat more plants ... wait ...
3
user3956566
14:12
this has been two days in the queue is anyone wants to review it (terrible ocd of wanting things complete)
reject...
:P
user3956566
you can!! it's ok to reject it. I'm not asking for approvals, just hate them sitting there
user3956566
is anyone else like that??
well problem with me is that I don't review tag edits. I just skip all those. I haven't learned how those work.
user3956566
@gunr2171 it takes energy, as you need to check for plagiarism
user3956566
14:19
sometimes I skip.
user3956566
@gunr2171 I honestly think they need to implement this the two types of editing are like chalk and cheese
user3956566
took me all that time to find it!
I approved it. Didn't look copied and had actual usage guidance. Those are the two big excerpt sins
But, yeah, I skip a lot of those. Been review banned for approving plagiarism. Such a pain to identify
user3956566
@Machavity if I ever would be likely to copy wiki content LOL
Funny thing is I'm a lot more likely to review if it's an obvious reject for lacking guidance
user3956566
14:27
@Machavity I'm the plagiarist police, along with Undo
user3956566
@Machavity I need time to review tag wikis. That's why it would be great if they were in their own queue or filterable.
@YvetteColomb So you're plagiarizing Martjin's job?
user3956566
@Machavity oh, does he call himself that?! LOL
@YvetteColomb lol nah. He's just come in a few times of late with people who had some mod flags for it and asked for help auditing their questions for it
user3956566
yeh, I've helped him lol
14:30
So user targeting is bad. Except when Martjin asks you to
user3956566
@Machavity hahahahahahahahahahahaha I can't reconcile that
user3956566
anyway I have to pop off, I'm studying \o
15:17
I am obsessed with Taco Bell's insane food plans.
I don't use it as a primary source of diet.
That would be Nando's Peri Peri Chicken owo.
@Machavity Yes. If a moderator asks the room, or someone in the room, for help checking a user's posts for plagiarism, it's fine to continue that conversation. The FAQ says: "It is fine to continue a discussion topic introduced by a moderator, even if you beginning that discussion would otherwise not be permitted." The wording for that point was changed as a result of the recent room meeting.
15:35
wow
Am I the only one experiencing problems with the cv-pls script?
> Failed sending chat request message. You must login to post
See the console for more details.
Ron
Ron
15:51
@Compass You hiring?
@Compass Kidding. I don't do Java, Android, .NET and belly rubs.
well my startup is always looking for more minions owo
@rene I have the same problem:( FF/TM
@MartinJames I'm on Chrome/TM
Ron
Ron
@rene Don't let it turn into addiction.
@rene Kidding. Friends?
@MartinJames make sure you set the room as https
mine was still on http
16:01
just use https everywhere
@rene 'https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/41570/so-close-vote-reviewers'
Still same on https:(
Maybe I try logout/login..
Nope - logout/login does not help:(
@MartinJames what do you have in your localStorage for SECloseVoteRequestGenerator_* keys
In line 306 of the script there is an default that points to http, I changed that to https as well
Wasn't sure if that was related or not
It looks like it takes that one if it can't get a localstorage key
16:38
@rene What did it say in the console? Much more detailed information should have been logged to the console.
:F cv-pls b0rken again
"Failed sending chat request message. You must login to post"
@rene ^ no, you're not
it worked yesterday
@AnttiHaapala rene and I noticed that:( we're both on TM, but Chrome/FF
TM?:-/
I think I still have GM and FF57
@AnttiHaapala TamperMonkey
Ok it gives "you must login", the response status is 404 (wt..) and I don't even know why the request doesn't show up in the network tab of Firefox dev tools (but of course it doesn't)
16:54
blep
Today I must visit CVS for more eyedrops.
@Compass yes, revisit your CVs
@AnttiHaapala it doesn't show in the network tab because that tab is monitoring the traffic on stackoverflow.com while the calls to chat go over the intenal GM functions, which don't show there.
@AnttiHaapala Can you try to set the target room (this room) again? And make sure that what ever you enter is https? Maybe first remove the one you have now.
@rene yeah, http vs https issue for sure
I just added https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/41570/so-close-vote-reviewers as the target.
17:09
OK, now reload and retry?
yea, there are definitely 2 SO close vote reviewers in the list now :D
@AnttiHaapala Yeah, remove the top one (or remove all and re-add to be 100% sure you have the correct one listed)
yea, it works now. Is the script changed yet? it still defaults to http://chat...
I've back-ported changes I'd made in development to transition all SE/SO chat room URLs to HTTPS. I'm testing now. It will require the user to make no changes to their rooms.
it will require users (probably) to do that silly rsp hack again on FF with GM4 :/
17:15
@AnttiHaapala Not probably. Definitely. Any install/update from GitHub will require it, until, at least, the next version of GM4.
@AnttiHaapala It looks like a new version of GM4 was released today, which fixes that problem.
Nani
17:35
in JavaScript, Nov 23 at 7:45, by Kamil Solecki
man answering on SO is hard, it turns out you can't just make up stuff
18:17
Things you do not want to get by text message: "I broke production man"
I'm sitting there in my car enjoying my officially sanctioned lunch break. And you broke production =w=
<waffles>
hold on let me check chat history
oh waffles
@Nkosi The US needs to use https: instead of http:
Do i need to edit it manually or just update the script
18:20
@Nkosi A new version was just pushed. You can just update the script.
sweet just did and it updated
@AnttiHaapala Contrary to my last message, it doesn't appear that there is a general update for GM4. You will need to use the hack.
I'm not sure what's going on wrt. the profile I was using for testing. My about:addons claims GM4 was updated today, but the version did not change (which is required for an update). AMO claims GM4 was updated on 2017-11-02. The actual extension files show a signature directory which was created today, but no files which changed after 2017-11-02. However, I can install from GitHub without using the hack (even after re-installing GM4, restarting FF, verifying the hack is not in place, etc.).
Testing in a different profile indicated, as expected, that the hack is still needed.
@Makyen yea :F
@AnttiHaapala Tampermonkey works well in FF57
well, I could change to it, after all I only have 3 userscripts and all SO-related, so not too much work :D
18:44
@AnttiHaapala Switching to TM is probably a good idea. While GM4 is improving, they're also contemplating making more breaking changes, which would force userscript writers to make even more changes to their scripts to continue to work in GM4. It's not yet clear that GM4 is actually going to make additional breaking changes, but they are significantly considering it. Even if they don't, you will continue to have issues with some scripts not being compatible due to the already existing changes.
Oh look! Production is fixed again:)
GM is <10% of the userscript manager installed base. It's much more likely that user script authors will be writing for the original interfaces/meta block than concentrating on the new GM4 interfaces/meta.
18:59
@RezaAghaei I'm not super thrilled by it as it lacks an attempt but I can see some value in it to have an answer. The current answer there is utter crap btw. So if it is undeleted that answer might need some love
@RezaAghaei Yeah - I would prolly do it with three u/d controls in one panel, either as a panel descendant or just with code. I'll u/d
@MartinJames No the answer is simple but really useful for future readers. "You are looking for a DateTimePicker having Format set to Time and ShowUpDown set to true."
@RezaAghaei Oh.. so there is already a control/component for it? I'm tempted to delv again. (I won't).
That doesn't seem like a great answer
I disagree with undeleting that question. The lack of effort as stated before is telling. And to me it comes across as a feature request. Just my opinion.
It is still too broad. Even with the edits.
19:05
@JohnDvorak While a great answer can have more descriptions than a comment, but it doesn't need to be long. It should be valid and useful.
@RezaAghaei That ship seems to be sinking. It's getting that poor guy more downvotes. Might be better to delete it and re-ask yourself
@Nkosi It's not too broad at all. It has just a single valid answer. "Using DateTimePicker having Format set to Time and ShowUpDown set to true."
But is it? The comment has already pointed out an objective downside of the answer.
The dowbvote attack to the question is because of the first comment under the question. Which was valid before edit. (While I personally avoid such comments.)
@RezaAghaei so you are clairvoyant, since you edited in what the OP apparently knows and doesn't know?
19:09
I just reword the question to show how they can ask the same question with better wording ...
@RezaAghaei "I looked at properties of the NumericUpDown and couldn't find any property related to showing a time format." was completely added by you (unless there's a now deleted comment from the OP saying that). Looks like you're thinking for the OP, which is bad imo
voted to redelete
:D
Good for the user, because the downvotes will disappear.
not for the purposes of Q-ban
and reputation is meaningless these days except as a feature-denial mechanism
But needed by users sometimes to open a bounty ...
19:13
Well, he's not going to be using SO for a while with -8
Ron
Ron
Pointless to camp in a favorite tag. All noise aka homework dumps.
Maybe I should get a job instead...
@Ron sounds boring ...
Ron
Ron
19:30
@rene Indeed it is. Majority of C++ jobs in my corner of the world are maintenance only.
Happy thoughts, happy thoughts.
@rene what was the trouble with cv-pls script?
@PetterFriberg I don't know. I punched it in the face and then it worked for me
ok... I need to do the same with NattyReporter
@PetterFriberg There was a rumour of an http/https issue, but nobody walked on the moon and JFK was shot from the grassy knoll.
sounds promising.. argh these browsers, scripts, updates... why do SW devs always need to mess with stuff.
19:38
@PetterFriberg FireFox rocked the boat
to be fair
the idea of unifying browser addons is good
instead of developing for only chrome or firefox, both at the same time
Fire all SW developers!, we are fine as we are (also we don't' get anymore question, so we can just have a beer and enjoy TV)
hides in a corner
@PetterFriberg Ok, done.
@rene hmm I'm still developing switching from http to https and questions are still arriving you need to do better, btw thanks @Martin chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/40202657#40202657
19:51
@PetterFriberg It's not just SW devs. Cars, ovens, washing-machines, almost everything has become effectively unuseable out-of-the-box due to continual 'improvements'. I now fear hiring a car because I know that I will be unable to use it without a 3-day course:(
have you heard of driving licenses yet?
On the internet, no one knows you can't drive
@JohnDvorak 20 years ago I could get into any car and use it easily. For example, they all had a knob or slider that was blue at one end and red at the other. If I was too hot, I turned the control to the blue end. When I drove Anne's new car, I was too hot, so I opened all the windows because I could not investigate/use the touchscreen interface while driving.
@PetterFriberg Stack Exchange stopped accepting HTTP traffic to chat room URLs. The script was updated to change all existing HTTP SE/SO chat rooms URLs to HTTPS. Any rooms which you have already defined are changed to HTTPS, and all new rooms are changed to HTTPS, if not directly entered as such. You can get away with not updating, but you would need to manually change the room URL to HTTPS on each site for which you use the script. This could be done via the GUI.
o.o
The AC controls should still have a dial
in fact, the AC controls should be adjustable without the touchscreen at all.
19:57
Thanks Mayken! informing also @BaummitAugen since he is the poor guy that is updating our script
@Compass Oh, I agree totally. Such interfaces are dangerous. If I cannot operate it by touch, or with a quick glance, I'm not paying attention to the really important stuff, like the Audi driver trying to kill me.
`st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2015/09/… this is my crv dash, pretty easy to tell where temp controls should be owo
the nav i never touch except when parked to enter address, everything else is voice controlled
Ron
Ron
Looks nice.
my gps told me i was driving through the woods for about 3 years after the road was complete =w=
Ron
Ron
@MartinJames Not all is lost. Remember VHS and cathode tube monitors? I am glad those are gone.
20:08
@Ron Oh yeah.. though the continual maintenance and repair of such contraptions paid for my beer money at uni.
Ron
Ron
In my opinion cars are narrow. We are all getting bigger and wider and somehow the average limousine seems narrow.
destroyed
too narrow? Back in my days, cars could fit two people side by side inside of them, and two other in the back!
Ron
Ron
Look at the available space per passenger in the average economy class car.
The average limousine should feel narrow like an arrow.
Ron
Ron
20:14
It's like economy minus the wings.
I think there is some snake oil involved. Slightly wider wheel base == disproportionately more money.
For anyone doing general close vote queue reviews, I'd appreciate some eyes on the Google Apps Script & Google Spreadsheet tags. (general competence in JS and any form of spreadsheet is sufficient background)
Competence in JS ...
Ron
Ron
@halfer o/
Ron
Ron
Brits are invading.
20:24
No, they are not, they are brexit
/me waves a little European flag
Ron
Ron
They are invading in the wrong direction.
lol
We're invading ourselves!
user177800
20:41
@TylerH not really anything you can do, except wait until it is undeleted and then vote to delete it again. No sure why someone is trying to revive this one. Honestly not really invested in it that much.
If we have a mod here give me a ping we there is a user destroying all their content
shouldnt that just be a moddo flag
Reviewing a JS question I answered...how can I edit/improve this to narrow scope? I feel the question was already pretty specific and the concepts are important.
@PetterFriberg Thanks for the heads up.
An hi all! o/
@Compass it is, but that one takes time... I fairly tired of roll back even if @PaulRoub has done most of work... we are talking about +20 answer / questions
\o Baum
20:55
melts
meeh now that Baum also is here we will keep him in check :D, thanks Baum!
Praise Beli! =D
It seems they've done this before on Nov 17, then handled by Felix.
lol there must be more then 50!
Also Oct 30.
How on earth are they not banned yet?
@Baum raise a custom mod flag, mine was only related to current actions
20:59
Mine too.
W/e, raising a second one.
Though at least one of the rollbacks was by Bolt, so there's probably a note on their profile.
Yeah I saw Andy also on one... (left a comment)
wakka
String example for regex pewp
 
2 hours later…

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