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10:02 PM
Hey, look! A picture of food on which it doesn't look like vomit!
 
@JerryCoffin downloaded 8976 student profiles, 735 ids missing, 467 'SAVARA's, 55 'Ravi's, 584 repeated full names (out of 247 names), Caste Certificate available: 75.9%
Meh. I'm wrapping it up and ---selling--- storing it :)
 
note to self
all constants are known...
 
What are all constants?
 
Known
 
you know, true and false
my previous algorithm accidentally marked them as unknown variables... whoops
 
10:06 PM
What are you writing?
Wide implementation?
 
no, working more on my SHA-2 solver
 
Ah nice.
Anijs.
 
I've decided to delay implementing Wide until I'm done with my RTS
then I'm going to do it properly#
I'm going to design a thing which really meets my needs
 
Do you have a spec of Wide somewhere?
 
it's silly to design a command-line compiler, I would never use such a thing
@RadekdaknokSlupik WIP
 
10:07 PM
You want a GUI compiler? ಠ_ಠ
 
who else is gonna write it?
besides, I'll re-use some of the GUI code from my RTS :P
 
Lol.
DirectX-powered compiler.
That I have to see.
 
Steam uses DirectWrite to render fonts these days
 
It'll be double hilarious if it doesn't render randomly.
 
and Visual Studio's WPF is also hardware rendererd
 
10:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus Hey don't be condescend. Factor has a 'live' compiler, GUI compiler if you will
 
@CatPlusPlus My 2D content works fine :P
 
@sehe Listener isn't the compiler.
 
close enough :)
 
Compilers tend to be CLI because they're often run by something else.
 
besides, there's other code I can
huh
apparently, I just solved the whole damn thing
this I find suspect
 
10:11 PM
Like build servers.
That don't have any kind of GUI, because why would they.
 
@DeadMG depending on your actual definition of 'whole damn thing' you're not alone in your suspicion
 
@CatPlusPlus The best would be to have the compiler as a lib and put a CLI frontend over it. Like clang does. And like GCC doesn't.
 
@JerryCoffin id [17313..26870], 106 Mb, 11Mb (lzop), 3.1 Mb (gz), 2.7 (gz -9) 1.4Mb compressed (bz2)
 
@DeadMG and when compilation fails, will you get a game over screen asking you to continue from the last checkpoint?
 
libclang isn't the whole compiler.
At least IIRC.
 
10:14 PM
It's the whole compiler excluding the command-line interface.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik He just started using version control. I don't think he has checkpoints
 
> The C Interface to Clang provides a relatively small API that exposes facilities for parsing source code into an abstract syntax tree (AST), loading already-parsed ASTs, traversing the AST, associating physical source locations with elements within the AST, and other facilities that support Clang-based development tools.
 
well, according to this, it's just no longer necessary to have the hash value, the whole thing can be constant folded and proved away
which I find extremely unlikely
 
That's not the whole compiler.
 
more likely, I just accidentally some map somewhere
 
10:16 PM
@DeadMG Well. Duh. Perhaps true and false weren't so constant :)
 
@sehe lol
 
@CatPlusPlus In that case, I find it strange that when I link to libclang I get linker errors when I don't link to the codegen libraries too.
Maybe something weird.
 
I mean
I know I improved my algorithm by giving it real data
but that's a little more improvement than expected
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik That sort of implies that linclang doesn't have the codegen stuff (meaning doesn't have the whole compiler)?
 
@sehe yeah but why would I need to link to a codegen library if libclang doesn't do code generation?
 
10:20 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik doesn't do != doesn't use
I don't know the answer obviously
 
aaaaaargh
I recovered the whole input except one bit, which is a 1 when it should be a 0
 
'recovered input' <-- sounds too good to be true
 
I hashed the empty string, so all zeroes, and came back with all zeroes except one bit
although I suspect foul play, because the position of my errant true appears to be non-deterministic
 
@DeadMG So, the input block size was a given?
@DeadMG I even suspect UB
 
@sehe Yes. I figure that 489bit should be more than enough to get any 256bit hash
@sehe Why?
 
10:27 PM
Because you're not doing things Right™.
 
@DeadMG Well, does your algo use entropy? IOW is it non-deterministic?
 
You're using naked new and all that crap! You're evil!
 
@sehe clang - A driver program, client of the libraries at various levels.
libcodegen - Lower the AST to LLVM IR for optimization & code generation.
 
@sehe No ^^
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
 
Maybe not in libclang, but certainly in a library. (Source.)
 
10:28 PM
Ha, just got both [Enlightened] and [Nice Answers] for an answer telling users, basically, 'You fucked up, Go directly to Jail – do not pass Go, do not recover your data'
2
 
it must be some bug in the code solver
 
In fairness my answer was a lot more constructive than that, but still :)
@DeadMG the code solver. Can it solve my code?
 
@sehe I doubt it. Kinda purpose-built :P
 
If the algo is deterministic, and the output isn't, then either the input varies or you are running into UB
@DeadMG You specifically programmed it solve anything but my code? That's very hard to do
 
I did just find some UB
YEAAHHH BITCH, problem solvo!
 
10:32 PM
@DeadMG erm. May I suggest valgrind? Or would that be too CLI for you?
@DeadMG Let me guess: uninitialized input/start buffers?
 
I'm too sexy for SHA-2
 
@sehe Valgrind does Windows now?
 
@sehe Output, actually.
 
What, exactly, does your solver solve?
 
@DeadMG Too sexy by far. Sadly SHA-2 is unimpressed
 
10:32 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik Solutions.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's the point...
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik SHA-2. I just reversed the hash for the empty string... although I will gladly recognize that a little more work is needed to show more generality
 
@DeadMG If it influences the result, the output buffer is input (initial state).
 
Ah solver in that way.
 
@sehe Indeed. I failed to initialize it to zero, so when I ORed in the intended output, it was occasionally already true when I meant it to be false.
 
10:33 PM
However, it also implies that your hash doesn't 'hit' all bit at least once. That sounds odd
 
@sehe Not really. The output buffer in question only affected the display of the output, not the actual computation.
 
@DeadMG A little more energy to fight entropy, essentially
@DeadMG Oh. Who needs output anyway?
 
wait a minute
oh well, it's UB, even if I can't explain why changing it solved the problem
because that's what UB is like
aaand it didn't solve the problem at all, it just happened to be fine on that one test run
damn you, UB
so I'm microns away from a correct solution, apparently, but there's a glitch... somewhere
 
also, you might want to pick a more representative plaintext. It is going to be easy to run into 'false positives' with an algorithm if the intended result it the reversed 'empty string'. I mean, a single bug that leads to 0 bits will appear to be correct. Just make the input pseudo random and take it from there.
 
you know, I also find it strange how I didn't have to add in any extra information to get back a 489 bit value from a 256 bit value
@sehe Actually, I picked the empty string because I couldn't be bothered to write the code to pack it properly :P
whereas the packed empty string is always all 0s
 
10:38 PM
You mean pad it?
 
SHA256("The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog")
0x d7a8fbb307d7809469ca9abcb0082e4f8d5651e46d3cdb762d02d0bf37c9e592
 
@sehe and add the length to the end
there's endianness issues in there somewhere
but all 0s means I don't have to think about them
 
@DeadMG that would normally be deterministic. Get yourself valgrind. (linux, yes) or, if you'd rather pay, use Purify or something from Intel (don't remember).
 
@sehe All zero has the same representation on any endianness :P
 
@DeadMG It also means that a whole class of problems/biases will never show up
 
10:40 PM
actually, after preprocessing (and after I convert the constants), then there are no more endian-dependent operations
 
@DeadMG Well, fuck, that's just the plaintext, isn't it? There are non-zero bits involved in the process, lot's of them actually
 
I'm not even sure if preprocessing is an endian-dependent process
@sehe Yes, but I'm only interested in recovering the plaintext
 
Xeo
Hour 56: Power is slowly leaving my body, deep fatigue sets in
 
@Xeo Dude, forget science.
 
Xeo
:D
 
10:41 PM
@DeadMG Pray tell, what was the goal again? You want to (a) reconstruct a 20Mb PDF from just the SHA sum and the length? (b) you want to be able to forge a hash collision by appending max. 489 bits to any raw document to achieve any given hash?
 
Xeo
Well, I did a powernap of 2h earlier
Because D3 servers wouldn't let me in
 
@Xeo Ah, that resets the count.
 
@sehe I'm only interested in forging a collision
given any hash, find a message which hashes to it
 
@DeadMG You you are, in fact not interested in the plain text at all? Funny given:
2 mins ago, by DeadMG
@sehe Yes, but I'm only interested in recovering the plaintext
 
well, I'm pretty sure that the message in question is, in fact, the plain text I passed to the algorithm to hash
 
Xeo
10:44 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Anyways, I'm already lying in my bed, so it's only a matter of time.
 
By the way, a similar attack has been demonstrated on MD5 using post script or PDF documents. Google for it, there might be a paper with their method
 
@Xeo are you going to sleep?
 
@sehe SHA-2 isn't vulnerable to the techniques they used.
 
Xeo
@RadekdaknokSlupik Atm, I'm only lying down
 
@Xeo You know, after such a long run, I always fool myself thinking I'll just lay in bed to rest for a while, but not fall asleep yet. Then I wake up the next day.
 
10:45 PM
fileformat.info has lots of helpful information about unicode characters, but does anyone know what the "combine" field means? fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/01b6/index.htm
 
@Xeo Me too; sleeping is a waste of time.
 
@DeadMG So you knew that one.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, I'll play a game which requires me to read a lot of text. Let's see how long that can fight the fatigue
 
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
I know.
I'm going to completely rewrite my compiler, and this time don't put both the semantical analyzer and parser into one, giant function. In fact, I'm going to think out my design before implementing it, not afterwards.
 
Xeo
10:46 PM
Actually, I think I could even play D3 from my bed. After all, I only really need the mouse
 
Hey guys. Is this a room to ask actual C++ questions?
 
@Xeon06 We have the main site for that.
 
@Xeon06 No. That's stackoverflow.com
 
Right
That makes sense
 
@Xeon06 only if it's a one word answer
 
10:49 PM
@Xeon06 as long as they aren't about C++, it's fine.
 
Xeo
Can we do a lil test?
Somebody pling me
 
It's veeeeeeeeery trivial though
And not even about C++
 
But I doubt there's a "HLSL" room
 
Xeo
@Xeon06, did you by chance get plinged too?
 
10:49 PM
Is this the room to ask about C++ questions? My question isn't really about C++.
 
@Xeo yeah but I think that's cause people pressed "tab" and it auto completed to you first
Yeah I know I know
 
oh cockles
 
But in a room full of C++ guys I would probably have had an answer
I'll just go ask on freenode
 
no wonder my constant fold takes so long, I forgot to memoize between the different expressions
 
Thanks for the insights haha
 
10:51 PM
BTW, people with lots of time on their hands, who'd like to help with Goblin Camp revival?
 
lol, after what you told here about the codebase?
 
I have a whole summer of time, but I'm not going to do that.
 
I want to basically scrap the codebase.
Small C++ core, the rest in currently JS.
 
Lua > JS
 
I don't fancy JS too much, but V8 is actually decent, as opposed to Lua.
 
10:53 PM
very true
the LVM is not exactly easy to interface with
 
CoffeeScript ftw.
 
plus, you can just stick to the good parts of JS, I guess
 
Yeah, it's bearable.
There won't be any DOM involved.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Why not.
Open-source creditz!
 
Oh yeah why not.
lol I don't even know what Goblin Camp is. Is it a video game?
 
10:55 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik You have to be in your 50s or older to say "video game" instead of just "game"
 
I'll have a look.
 
No, it's not a game, it's a business CRM called "Goblin Camp".
Come on.
 
@DeadMG For some reason I almost always say "video game" instead of "game".
 
aaaargh
CODE Y U ALMOST WORK BUT NOT QUITE
 
10:56 PM
Some people are addicted to Gambling Camp.
 
Goblin Camp
<0 memory results; frontal, parietal, occiptal lobe: insignificant associations only>
 
robot
want to give it a brief once-over?
 
@DeadMG BECUZ U WRITE ME
 
I might want to do that later. I first want to get my compiler to actually generate an AST from a trivial program.
Temperature y u higher than me on cannabis!
 
right
time to check all my logical identities
            // a ^ b = c
            // a ^ c = b
            // b ^ c = a
        // x = !!x
            // a & 0 = 0
            // 1 = a & b therefore a and b are both 1
 
11:02 PM
@CatPlusPlus Well, it does come with a 'Reference Guide' in PDF, weighing no less than 6.5Mb. That's enterprisey enough
 
Pwetty pictuwes.
 
They are pwetty yes
 
posted on May 30, 2012

In general, arithmetic that combines signed and unsigned values yields an unsigned result.

 
hmmm
this might have something to do with the fact that my hash results disagree with an online hasher I found
 
11:19 PM
I'm going to waste my time. See you guys!
 
nm, solved that
bb daknok
need to implement real preprocessing step
 
Why the hell do people keep writing for loops for all the shit that can be done with std:: algorithms ...
 
Range for > for_each.
 
yeah but people go like : for ( ... ) instead of accumulate or whatever
i mean, wtf ...
 
11:34 PM
TBH, they're unwieldy even with lambdas.
 
TBH, they're not :)
 
no polymorphic lambdas and no range-based algorithms -> epic fail
 
I wonder whether @DeadMG has got me on his ignore list.
 
Standard algorithms are really syntax heavy.
 
damn
reversing the preprocessing should be trivial, and I'mma look at that later.
 
11:37 PM
You have to spell the name of the container at least twice, repeat the type names in the lambda, and if lambda is more than one line then it's even worse.
 
Yeah but as far as I'm concerned, they generally get optimized away really well.
 
Optimisation is not relevant.
They're harder to read.
Besides, accumulate is a stupid name and I never remember if it's foldl or foldr.
 
plus it's in a totally strange header
 
Well, when you have something like accumulate, you see the name of the container and some short lambda, I think it's pretty easy to read.
 
Range for is light on syntax and benefits from type deduction.
 
11:40 PM
Yeah, it's neat. Intellisense makes it pain to use in VS11 for now though :)
 
std::accumulate(xs.begin(), xs.end(), start_value, [&](type_1 x, type_2 y) -> possibly type_1 or type_2 { code });
 
oh, yeah, that's true
 
You can skip the return for simple lambdas, but it gets awful when you can't have a simple lambda.
Range for, OTOH:
T acc = start_value;
for (auto&& x : xs) { ... }
 
Why the rvalue ref there o_O ?
 
I don't even care if accumulator leaks into parent scope.
It's just simpler to read.
With Range-like transformations it gets even better.
 
11:43 PM
Rangelike transforms ? Wut ?
 
for (auto&& x : xs | reversed | transformed | whatever) { ... }
Try that with plain iterator-based algorithms.
 
Wait, you can do that already ?
 
Boost.Range.
 
What sorcery was used to implement that o_O ?
 
No sorcery needed, Range is C++03.
That it works with range for is because range for is awesome.
Okay, gotta get some sleep. Bye.
 
Xeo
11:45 PM
indeed
 
bb
ok, curious fact
the output is wrong (or correct) every single solution attempt; it only varies between program runs
if you run the solver a few times in the same program run, it will always give the same value
 
Xeo
Sounds random seed related
 
no random code
 
Xeo
guessed as much
But it still sounds like that
 
11:51 PM
the solver iterates through an unordered map of pointers
that would be random, essentially, but the same between each solver call in the same run
so if there was a bug which manifests only when the solver iterates in a certain order
 
Oki doke, I'm off to sleep, farewell.
 
then it would exhibit such behaviour
also maybe CatPlusPlus was right about using the empty string as the input
the solver always seems to output mostly zeroes with a couple randomly-placed ones as output
 
chrome still has a bit to go. It still freezes more than my other browsers, sometimes dragging my whole computer to a crawl. I believe flash is to blame, but either way, needs work.
Unrelated: Norway is on the edge of declaring a "state of emergency"
 
Ell
Really? what for?
 
Ell
11:59 PM
Haha
 

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