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2:00 PM
Well, i don't think it matters, but I just starred a message from many months ago :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes will be nice to see generates the better solution. I just hope one of you can conceded if the other does come up with a better way.
 
@thecoshman That's up to the cat, obviously :P
I can't concede in his name.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes and you. If you cling to a shitty method to handle events, rather then helping improve springbok, it doesn't help any one :P
 
@Xeo FYI, my MinGW GCC build uses -std=c++11 by default.
 
Yargh. We're a week late on testing this comm interface. And he doesn't respond to my emails or phone calls. /endworkrant
 
2:03 PM
@thecoshman You missed the implicit sarcastic assumption that mine would obviously be the better way and it's up to the cat to decide on conceding anything.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought as much :D
 
AAAWWW YEAAAH!
I finally managed to make this damn drag and drop work.
 
You came early?
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel So you think.
 
Oh, that.
 
sbi
2:11 PM
@sehe You talking to me?
 
@sbi I ripped off a bunch of code right out of SharpDevelop. Of course it works.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel So you think.
 
@sbi ?! Of course, I think?
 
@sbi I think, therefore I ham.
 
There we go. Broken room again.
 
2:12 PM
@Neil I think a lone `` would do: not this but \---this---. Apparently not, worx in SO posts and comments
 
> A higher probability exists that every member of your programming team will be attacked and killed by wolves in unrelated incidents on the same night.
2
 
Higher than what?
 
Than having two sha1 hashes collide in a git repo
 
Higher than zero, duh.
 
Also, any tutorial about training wolves?
 
2:14 PM
My guess
It's a quote from:
 
Yes, it is
Chapter 6
 
> If all 6.5 billion humans on Earth were programming, and every second, each one was producing code that was the equivalent of the entire Linux kernel history (1 million Git objects) and pushing it into one enormous Git repository, it would take 5 years until that repository contained enough objects to have a 50% probability of a single SHA-1 object collision.
> A higher probability exists that every member of your programming team will be attacked and killed by wolves in unrelated incidents on the same night.
@Cicada That's supposedly a hint about SHA-1 collision probability. Of course, this obviously doesn't preclude the potential presence of subversions/attacks/weaknesses that could totally change the odds. But by conventional maths the above is probably only slightly exaggerated
@EtiennedeMartel Don't worry. That'll change as soon as you find out what it was [that you could lose]
 
You could loose performance!
 
Yeah but you don't need to be identified for that
 
I don't use my real name here, btw. My real name doesn't have an "R." in it.
 
2:19 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Even after years on several internets I still can't decide myself to use my real name
 
So I'm safe.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Wasn't it Renato or something akin?
 
@sehe My beautiful face.
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, that R obviously stands for "Rumba".
Damn it, if I got a dollar for every time I wrote down public static readonly DependencyProperty, I would be rich now.
 
I know the feeling.
 
2:22 PM
I should make a snippet.
 
dp<Tab>
@sehe It's a cultural reference. Maybe not popular culture, but I don't care. Everyone should get all the cultural references I make, no matter how obscure.
R. Daneel Olivaw is a fictional robot created by Isaac Asimov. The "R" initial in his name stands for "robot," a naming convention in Asimov's future society. Olivaw appears in Asimov's Robot and Foundation series, most notably in the novels The Caves of Steel, The Naked Sun, The Robots of Dawn, Robots and Empire, Prelude to Foundation, Forward the Foundation, Foundation and Earth. Since he also appears in all of the books of the Second Foundation Trilogy, Daneel is the most commonly appearing Asimov character. He was constructed immediately prior to the age of the Settlers, and lived at ...
 
So your real name is Martinho
 
Yeah, I figured it had something to do with robots.
So, it has come to this.
3
Why do I have a Backstreet Boys song stuck in my head?
 
That's sooo 1990
 
2:28 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Suits the beautiful face. That was asking for it
 
IIIII waaaant it thaaaaat waaaayyyy
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel That's one of those lines that everybody craves to say, but most fail to think of it when an opportunity arrives.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Misquote
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel I knew that one, of course.
 
2:30 PM
Yeah, I know you know.
Still felt like it was relevant.
@sehe Hmmm?
 
XKCD is always relevant.
 
sbi
Jan 3 at 10:08, by jalf
Not knowing what we're talking about has never stopped me from discussing!
(I just thought this would fit here.)
 
@EtiennedeMartel I never once wrote public static readonly DependencyProperty. Instead, give me a dollar cent for each time anyone public static readonly and I'll be a millionaire quite a lot sooner :)
 
@sbi do you have a whole stash of handy quotes from ages ago ready to use?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, that was Sinatra then :)
 
2:31 PM
@sehe Ever did WPF?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Take three guesses :)
 
sbi
@awoodland What do you mean, "ages ago"? This is 5 months ago. Surely even you aren't that young?
 
No, no, and no?
 
@sehe psr<Tab>
 
sbi
Did you really think I'd led this one pass?
 
2:33 PM
Hey! I resisted the urge to post an actual link!
 
Oh, for fuck's sake.
 
If you still can't help but go look at it (link to "Schmuck Bait" omitted), it's your own fault!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Don't tell me you actually use snippets and abbrevs. I have tried to start using those, but I don't see the merit. I still have two snippets though: SPIRIT<Tab> for a simple minimal Spirit test app and CPP<Tab> for my default C++ Makefile (with -std=c++0x -march=native mainly)
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You posted a social link to lure someone to The Site That Must Not Be Linked. Why would I consider this Ok?
 
I think @sbi is a closet TVTropes fan.
 
2:34 PM
@sehe In C#? I often do use snippets, yes.
@sbi In that case, what incentive do I have to not post actual links?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hmm. I might want to give it a try. With R# there is really no need at all, I think
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Why would you need an incentive for either one, when I zap both anyway?
 
@sehe R# snippets are even better!
 
sbi
Feb 7 at 17:12, by sbi
@Xeo room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: When you link to TVTropes, you might get banned. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
"bananed", FTFY.
 
2:36 PM
Really, when doing C# with R# I think about 60%-70% of code is actually being generated on my direction
 
@sehe That is true.
 
sbi
Feb 20 at 19:55, by sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes A TVTropes link! Let's flag it!
 
"bananaed"?
 
sbi
Apr 26 at 10:33, by sbi
Take that, TVTropes, linker from hell!
 
Coding with R# looks a lot like you're talking with someone that is constantly finishing your sentences, except it's not annoying.
 
2:37 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes My collegues have the same flustered look on their face when I'm writing code in their VS2010/R# as when I'm writing on my own Gvim or VsVim/ViEmu enabled VS
 
get that stuck in your head!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's only not annoying because you can predict what it is she's going to say about what you said. And you have shortcut keys to nip the 'suggestions' in the bud.
 
@sehe Does VsVim play nice together with R#? I haven't done much C# lately, so I haven't used them extensively.
 
sbi
Feb 10 at 8:16, by sbi
If you think TVTropes is bad, try Wikipedia. I followed the link to ellipsis and now, half an hour later, find myself stranded on Thor Heyerdahl's page, without any recollection of what happened in between, and a primordial fear of using my browsers history to find out, lest I get lost again...
 
I do remember some quirks when both ViEmu and R# where active (lots of updates ago).
 
2:39 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't even notice the interaction between either VsVim or ViEmu and R# anymore. Though, admittedly I let R# keys take precedence when asked (I think).
 
Feb 10 at 8:17, by R. Martinho Fernandes
And on TVTropes you don't run the risk of learning something interesting.
@sbi I'm trying to decide if it's too stupid to have a conversation by simply quoting from the old conversation.
 
sbi
Feb 10 at 8:18, by sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes But that's the problem with Wikipedia: I always feel excused because it's so educating to get lost there, which overrides all my inhibitions...
 
I love R#'s Extend Selection/Shrink Selection combos (like Eclipse had it some years before) - I'd actually want to build myself something like that for Vim (based on libclang)
 
Yep, definitely a closet fan.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I was thinking along the same line, but then just thought to go with you on this.
 
2:41 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes May I remind you of the trailing part of this:
in bin, 9 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Cicada TVTropes too (link to the "Blatant Lies" trope omitted, I want to do work today)
 
Is "What is the general way to build an animated GUI?" too general?
 
... you want to do work today.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Doesn't cool me down as much
 
static void (* const dispatch[])(word, word, word, word, const word *) = {
    draw_texture, draw_texture_90, draw_texture_180, draw_texture_270
};
 
sbi
@sehe That would be a new one, actually.
 
2:41 PM
Don't you just love the C declarator syntax? :)
 
@sbi I bet there is a trope for that
 
@Cicada Yes.
 
@FredOverflow Oh I thought that was a really really quick response to Cicada
 
@FredOverflow static decltype(draw_texture)*[] = { ... };
@RMartinhoFernandes yo
 
sbi
@FredOverflow C declaration syntax is a small foretaste of the fate that awaits you in hell should you continue to post such monstrosities here.
 
2:43 PM
@DeadMG static const auto dispatch = make_array( ... )
 
@sehe Or, indeed, that
 
Hi
 
sbi
ha! Gotcha!
 
@FredOverflow alias (last example)!
 
@sbi Hey since when is complimenting me a binnable offense ?
 
sbi
2:45 PM
10 mins ago, by sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You posted a social link to lure someone to The Site That Must Not Be Linked. Why would I consider this Ok?
 
@DeadMG I am writing (or at least trying to write) pure C code, because I plan to reuse it in a pure C environment later.
 
@sehe It was not a compliment. It was a trope name. Also, we were talking about me working.
 
@sehe I have never heard of make_array before, does it require dynamic initialization?
 
No.
Only RVO.
 
@FredOverflow Search the chat. Ask the robot. In fact, don't ask, but see this -->
 
2:46 PM
May 9 at 9:56, by R. Martinho Fernandes
template <typename T, size_t N, size_t... Indices>
std::array<T, N> make_array(T(&a)[N], indices<Indices...>) {
    return { { a[Indices]... } };
}
template <typename T, size_t N>
std::array<T, N> make_array(T(&a)[N]) {
    return make_array(a, IndicesUpTo<N>());
}
 
@FredOverflow 1. Write C++ code. 2. Compile to LLVM IR w/ Clang. 3. Convert IR to C, which I'm pretty sure LLVM or someone provides.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes So the accused is confessing, huh? :)
 
resists urge to mention another trope
 
@DeadMG Or I could simply learn to love the C declarator syntax. Or use an intermediate typedef, but typedefs are for sissies :)
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, so the social rehabilitation project is making progress!
 
2:47 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You, working? Unlikely Hero
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You can't be working while quoting interesting or non-interesting chat messages full time. Unless your job is 'to convert oxygen into nitrogen' or 'heating up the seat' and similar things
 
sbi
@DeadMG He gets paid for chatting here.
 
I don't get paid.
 
Did you misspell 'laid'?
 
@sehe Or "Look sexy"
 
2:49 PM
Wait, that was the wrong make_array.
 
@DeadMG Oooh but that would be time consuming. For a robot
 
May 23 at 15:07, by R. Martinho Fernandes
template <typename... T,
          typename Result = std::array<Decay<CommonType<T...>>, sizeof...(T)>>
Result make_array(T&&... values) {
    return Result {std::forward<T>(values)...};
}
// OMG, it's readable again!
 
I get paid to force controls engineers to actually conform to a written spec. Or at least, that's what it seems like lately.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't think RVO has anything to do with dynamic initialization. I'm pretty sure dynamic initialization is a standard C++ term. If you have a static variable with an initializer, the initialization can happen prior to program execution (static) or the first time the control flow reaches the variable definition (dynamic).
 
I want the robot's job instead.
 
2:50 PM
@FredOverflow Oh. I see.
 
@sbi No. Its a C++ dev job. (Two major teams. Crawler team (writing really fast and polite crawler). Processing (writing code to processes the output from the
 
You accidentally
 
Hi Loki
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the room
 
@sehe Very true
 
2:50 PM
@DeadMG That could be my job definition.
 
sbi
"You accidentally" "Hi Loki" "the room" "Very true" You guys are strange. (And the girl is stranger still.)
 
I'm not chatting until 18 o'clock. You'll see, I'll work lots for two hours.
I can do this.
 
Etienne de M. is in spring mood the last 3 days. I think it has to do with another French-enabled chat frequenter.
 
I mean it.
 
2:52 PM
@sbi wat
 
@sehe Arhem.
 
@sehe What ?
 
@sbi @Cicada actually seems to be one of the more normal people here
 
@thecoshman Oh boy, then I do not want to see the freaks
 
sbi
@thecoshman I would laugh about that, but from what I know about you I shudder about the thought what you might consider "normal".
 
2:52 PM
@Cicada it's all relative
 
So, don't plink me until 18, ok?
2
 
@DeadMG error: expected unqualified-id before '[' token :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Sure.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Why?
 
@Cicada Oh yeah you do. That's why you came here. You knew we were freaky, came back after mental preparation and decided to stay for the encores :)
 
2:53 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Ok.
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I'm not chatting until 18 o'clock. You'll see, I'll work lots for two hours.
 
@sbi what do you know about me?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Duly noted.
 
Dammit, you're trolling me.
Ok, starting now.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Easy shit.
 
sbi
2:53 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Never!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes starting what?
 
@FredOverflow Yeah, don't think C has decltype.
 
sbi
@thecoshman Too much, I'm afraid.
 
It's plinking time.
 
@DeadMG Compiling with C++ compiler as of now.
 
2:54 PM
Good day.
 
@thecoshman That you're more normal than you care to admit :)
 
@DeadMG We're not supposed to plink @RMartinhoFernandes for two hours.
 
@FredOverflow Try decltype(&draw_texture)[]?
 
@sehe we are all freaks, except that one over there ¬_¬
@sbi or, not enough
 
I'm sure there is a song about that
 
2:55 PM
Or maybe a trope.
 
@DeadMG Oh wait, now I get it: I was missing the variable name :)
static decltype(draw_texture_90)*dispatch[] = { ... }; works.
 
lol
 
Does anybody know a cross-platform library that opens a window and sets up an OpenGL context for drawing and handles keyboard input, and is not called GLUT, FreeGLUT or GLFW?
Or is GLFW not bad?
 
SDL?
SFML?
 
SDL includes sound and stuff, I don't need that.
 
3:06 PM
Okay
SFML is slightly higher level too
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik @CatPlusPlus was working on something like that
 
SFML 1.x just doesn't cut it for modern-use OpenGL and 2.x is afaik still not officially released (it works though). Also, be prepared for "we don't need that" answers when you propose enhance;ents to the dev (it's kind of a jerk)
 
I want to use OpenGL 3.x, if that's possible.
 
Yes, I am.
 
Is it already usable?
 
3:10 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik springbok is on it's way (this is that cat's library previously mentioned)
 
@KillianDS I also dislike SFML (also, you must be french)
The coding style is really non-standard
 
I need to import code from the old codebase.
It will work somewhat on Windows and X11 after that.
 
What's the windows equivalent to X?
 
@Cicada 'non-standard coding style' is nonsense. non-uniform is a valid complaint
 
Is there?
 
3:11 PM
@Cicada WinAPI. :P
Hmm X11 and Windows. I could use X11 if necessary.
 
@thecoshman By that I mean he doesn't respect the "usual" conventions
 
Windows build of X, duh.
Windows own GUI isn't client-server.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik You can use SFML for that. The only issue I had a while back was that I couldn't create forward compatible contexts (and debugging contexts). I wrote a patch for it but it got refused.
 
So it's hardly "equivalent of X"
(It's better.)
 
That's why I'm asking, duh.
 
3:12 PM
@Cicada Not French ;)
 
If you really want X on Windows, there's one in Cygwin and Xming.
 
I don't want one. Just wanted to know what is an equivalent in the Windows world, if any
 
Exceed is a proprietary X11 server
@RadekdaknokSlupik springbok will abstract that away from you. You will not have to arse around with win api shit and get X11 support thrown in for free
@Cicada that's still non-sense :P
 
@thecoshman No it's not. Do you C++ the same way you Java?
 
I'll check springbok out.
Maybe add Mac OS X support.
 
3:16 PM
@Cicada what I mean is, something like Java has a very well specified preferred style. C++, whilst it has some general conventions, it is very much left to individuals to decide on style. Of course, you don't have to stick the conventions in Java
Springbok is in a very early stage, but AFAIK should be usable soon enough, for windows at least. I have no intentions of helping with Mac support directly, not sure if @cat wants to work on it though
 
@thecoshman There are things, for example RAII, that aren't fully style but related and that you should use (even if it's only to be exception-safe). Last time I checked, RAII was quite absent in SFML.
 
I don't have a Mac.
 
@KillianDS there are lots of things that people should do. You can only hope that they do at least some of them
@CatPlusPlus my sentiments exactly :P
 
I have a VM, but it's unusable crap
 
I don't know how difficult it would be to support Mac
 
3:20 PM
I've done it only once and it wasn't so difficult
Mainly finding the correct .dylib or something
 
Well, you need to use Objective-C++ which is a piece of shit.
But it shouldn't be too difficult.
I'll see if I can add Mac support. My exams are done anyway so I have an infinite amount of time.
 
I need to figure out nice way to translate key codes.
 
@CatPlusPlus for Mac or just in general?
 
In general.
 
<springbok/core/drivers/*> aren't anywhere. :/
Still have to write them?
 
3:22 PM
I can't use scancodes directly, I can't use virtual keys directly.
 
@thecoshman hmpf, I don't agree. There's style (like "should I use camelcase or underscores") and style (like "I won't use exceptions" or "RAII is weird, I won't use it". When you're making a library you still can choose the first, the user has to adapt. However, you have less choice about the second. You may hate exceptions, but you should make sure your code is exception safe (even if that means using patterns you dislike).
 
@KillianDS my main point was, Java has a well defined code style, C++ has no such thing
 
@thecoshman You'll agree that there is an average, more common style, yes?
 
Not really, no.
 
3:24 PM
@thecoshman oh, if it really is about syntax, I agree :)
 
@Cicada for some things. I'd say there are common ways for little things. But in terms of 'system wide' code style, definitely not
 
Capitalized members?
 
@ScottW And then you want to change it to a struct in the future and you are screwed to death.
 
I've seen C++ code with every style imaginable.
 
All equally good?
 
3:25 PM
As long as it's consistent, who cares.
 
eg, functions names, are normally either camel case or underscore separated. Some people like to prefix member variables with 'm_'. But I have never seen a link between the two
 
@thecoshman Well, SFML is neither
 
Agreed, consistency is the most important thing
@Cicada further to my point
any way, home time for me
I have better things to do then debate pointless things and miss the bus, again ¬_¬
 
@ScottW futt bucked
 
@CatPlusPlus what are those cog comments everywhere in the code?
 
3:27 PM
Code generation.
 
I thought docs too :)
 
hi
is there any free softwares for designing screenshots
 
Explain "designing screenshots"
 
ie:promotional Screenshots posted on the webpages
 
3:41 PM
weird
 
creating stylish window captures
 
what are you smoking?
 
What's wrong with the screenshot key ?
 
there's no software for that, it's like asking for a software to design your game mechanics for you
you need human beings to decide what screenshots look good
 
yeah i know
i a lot of softwares for capturing screenshots
 
3:43 PM
facepalm
 
I accidentally the screenshot.
 
Are you sure you know what a screenshot is ?
 
i know a lot of softwares for capturing screenshots
sorry for the typing errors
Let me Explain
1.I know what is a screenshot
2.I know a lot of software that can capture screenshots
Have you seen webpages with stylish screenshots and 3d product boxes
 
Post an example
A screenshot is worth a thousand words
 
you do know this is a C++ room right?
 
3:46 PM
You call it "stylish", I call it "crappy and uninformative".
 
@KillianDS yes
 
sbi
I accidentally shot the screen. It's now lying on the floor, with its electrical cord twitching, bleeding liquid crystals all over the floorboards, the admins whimpering by its side.
3
 
lol
 
@techno Like that ?
 
oh man
 
3:47 PM
Also, I'm adding TODO entries to the tracker, if anyone wants to pick something for themselves.
 
didnt know you possessed a firearm
 
sbi
@techno Yes, I have.
 
@CatPlusPlus glskel?
 
@CatPlusPlus You're not exactly part of the target audience, ya know.
 
Springbok.
 
3:48 PM
what's that?
 
@kbok yes
 
> A modular framework for OpenGL applications.
About as vague as you can get.
 
That's not a screenshot. It's a cardboard box.
 
sbi
2 mins ago, by techno
Have you seen webpages with stylish screenshots and 3d product boxes
 
A bigger project that'll include glskel.
 
3:49 PM
Aaah.
 
I want to experiment further and stuff.
 
@kbok is there any software for creating this type of 3d window captures
 
I'd bet 3D modelling software can create 3D models.
 
that's not a window capture
 
sbi
@techno Obviously. How else do you think they have created this?
 
3:50 PM
@techno Inkscape would do the trick.
 
@DeadMG What i mean is -Are there similar softwares that can generate 3D Screenshots
 
@techno MsPaint
 
@techno That is not a screenshot.
 
@techno no
 
A screenshot is the software in operation. That's just a picture of the box
 
3:52 PM
@DeadMG Not Boxes
I know the difference between a boxshot and a sceenshot
 
sbi
Y U NO NO WHAT IS SHOT SCREEN?
3
 
@techno Then why do you keep confusing them?
 
CAREFUL WITH THE CAPS.
YOU MIGHT HURT SOMEONE.
 
that's not fair
 
HOW DO I SHOT SCREEN
 
3:53 PM
Y U NO is a meme which goes in caps
like ALL THE THINGS
it's not like putting regular things in caps
 
@kbok There's a trope that's incredibly similar to that.
 
sbi
:3919592 Careful with Ctrl+V!
 
@EtiennedeMartel If you mean with "web", that was intentionnal.
 
@sbi Actually, it wasn't a Ctrl+V.
I posted that, then I got some sort of timeout error. So I clicked "retry". Then it posted. Twice.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Careful with Retry! And with scissors! You might hurt someone.
@techno: Seriously, for 20mins now you have confused more than half a dozen, not dumb secretaries, but (I believe) reasonably smart developers about what you actually want. And you have confused them so badly, they had to resort to making fun of you. Maybe it's time that you contemplate that the problem might be you, rather than the other half a dozen guys? Maybe you should lean back in your chair, think about all this mess, and ask yourself what you did wrong.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel See, just a bloody spot where the nose ought to be. I toldya!
 

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