« first day (1353 days earlier)      last day (2464 days later) » 

4:48 AM
Pretty much all of the answers there now qualify as VLQ in my opinion - should definitely be closed to stop it from drawing more low-quality answers
 
user3956566
@EJoshuaS totally agree
 
I'm not sure if should be burninated, but as a good Monty Python fan I'd very much like to write a Meta post entitled "we found a [which] - may we burn it?"
@YvetteColomb Custom close reason with all of the above?
 
user3956566
5:04 AM
@EJoshuaS meaning it can be closed for any of those reasons
 
user3956566
^^ that already has an answer
 
user3956566
8:47 AM
anyone able to explain nicely to this user stackoverflow.com/questions/45255455/… I think there's a misunderstanding
 
I hate these: 'Please give a detail explanation of how[utterly crap code that is obviously given as an assignment] is evaluated'. Such questions are of negative use to any future SO user/visitor, unless they are also looking to avoid doing homework. Then, to add insult to injury, SO users answer them. I wanna be sedated! I wanna join Olaf for a month's vacation!
 
o/
 
user3956566
@MartinJames I totally agree - but with less emotion :D
 
9:14 AM
@YvetteColomb ...b..but i want to hack their heads off with a blunt kata... .. I want to amiably and nicely educate them on SO rules, policy and goals.
 
Today is a special day
Plop everyone!
 
@Kyll o/
 
@YvetteColomb Less emotion? Who are you and what have you done of Yvette?
@MartinJames Cast all teh moderation votes
 
@Kyll LOL, maybe Yvette needs a month vacation too;)
 
@MartinJames It certainly feels like it. Somewhere nice, with forests and squirrels...
 
9:23 AM
@Kyll ..and no signal:)
 
She wouldn't survive.
 
@Kyll Oh - it one of those survival rule things? Priority: 1) 4G signal 2) Water, 3) Shelter 4) Food ?
 
Yes but you got it all wrong
1 - Signal and computah
2 - Coffee
3 - Chair
4 - Rest of the universe
 
lol..
 
@YvetteColomb Your initial comment wasn't very informative to a new user, but your second one provided enough information to explain the first one. I would suggest you work up an auto-comment to use in such situations which provides more detail (and links to the two commonly used references: What signifies "Good" self promotion? and How to not be a spammer. Alternately, just use one of the auto-comments other people use.
 
Ron
9:47 AM
Hello world.
 
@Makyen Auto-comment everything...
Plop Ron
 
@Kyll Yeah, I find I make a lot of auto-comments. Unfortunately, the auto-comment user script doesn't provide any way to organize the comments other than you just choosing to have text to see as you scroll through them, which is less than optimal for having a large number of comments, or sets of comments which work in different general situations (beyond "Question"/"Answer").
 
10:10 AM
@Makyen Yeah I know, it's a bit sad not to have categories
 
\o
 
user3956566
@Kyll I am her bot
 
user3956566
@MartinJames you remind me of me - I like you :D
 
user3956566
@Makyen yes - I used to have them - I need to start using them again - thanks for the feedback and the links :)
 
user3956566
10:25 AM
@Kyll you forgot internet connection O.O
 
That's "Signal"
 
@Glorfindel Iirc, we are not supposed to delete . The RO move them to special collection rooms.
 
@YvetteColomb Well, I'm fairly sure that you would not publicly suggest head-removal as a fix for OP's who post bad questions, but otherwise.. :)
 
Would this be considered too broad, bordering on OT stackoverflow.com/questions/45520340/…
 
user3956566
@MartinJames only because I now have to behave myself
 
user3956566
10:40 AM
@Kyll oh, I thought you meant like hand signals or something :D
 
@BaummitAugen OK. I thought that because it was closed so fast, no need to clutter up the transcript.
 
@YvetteColomb Come the revolution, we can share a machete;)
 
Perhaps that needs to be in the FAQ, replacing the obsolete section about Documentation.
 
> The format is a bit strict because the room owners run an archiver script to move closed question out of the transcript so they can be monitored for changes by Yam, the GraveRobber bot.
May imply it. ^
afk
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao please don't build me one LOL
 
11:16 AM
@YvetteColomb for reference it's an old SOBotics joke, first pinging Kyll every 8h, then pinging me, and I returned pinging him.... until it went out of control, every day we tons of pings :D
 
user3956566
@PetterFriberg I can imagine - I'm currently ignoring a heap of bots in the chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/721/shadows-den
 
@Glorfindel Hey, docs is still live .... ;)
 
12:30 PM
re
 
12:44 PM
Any Java DupeHammers? This has a dupe somewhere... stackoverflow.com/q/45510475
 
12:59 PM
@PraveenKumar Can you find the dup?
Or did you?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I couldn't...
But I have seen somewhere...
Or may be too broad?
 
I'm not an expert in those topics, and so I can't either.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:10 PM
@PraveenKumar I tried to find a dupe with composite key, but I could not find that (all dupes are with single key (expecting int instead of string ecc), to me the question looks ok.
Maybe some Hibernate contributor knows where to find a dupe, I will leave it.
 
Ah... Super...
Then it was my mistake. I saw similar questions.
 
2:59 PM
That's actually asking for external tool ^
 
3:10 PM
hey
 
I'm worried it might not be obvious to reviewers, since some of the answers go into discussing best practices unrelated to the problem
\o
 
3:35 PM
That ApniExam guy needs to be banned. :(
 
 
1 hour later…
4:46 PM
Interesting issue: this question from 2010 was recently put "on hold" and had all of its answers deleted as VLQ, but it still has a score of +4 so it won't Roomba and can't be deleted even by 20k yet.
Enough downvotes will make this Roomba - is it appropriate to ask for downvotes here? I guess alternatives are to a) just leave it or b) ask for delete votes when it's old enough. Seems simpler just to downvote it until it'll Roomba, though.
 
@EJoshuaS There is no restriction on the score for the 10k+ delete votes on questions. It just has to have been closed for >2 days. The -3 score is the 20k+ privilege to immediately vote to delete questions without having to wait until two days after it's closed. Thus, there is no need to involve down-votes to delete the question.
 
@Makyen True - seems like it may be easier to just downvote it and let it Roomba rather than using a delete vote on it, though.
 
> I want to get good at writing recursive functions
Who teaches those poor people? :(
 
Ron
5:01 PM
Academia does.
And those online judges garbage sites.
 
@EJoshuaS While asking for down-votes on this question is intended to be about moderation, IMO it's inappropriate for us to ask for down-votes on any specific question, particularly when the effect desired requires us to act as a actual voting ring to expend multiple down-votes on a single question.
I don't have a problem with it being mentioned that there's a significant group of questions (e.g. a search within a tag matching age and score restrictions) which will Roomba if someone goes through them and down-votes any down-vote worthy questions they find, but not a single specific question (or even a small number 5?, 10? I'm not sure where that cut-off is, even for my own feelings of appropriateness).
@EJoshuaS Even with a group of questions, my (personal) "not appropriate" meter would start to register if it was being asked to have multiple down-votes cast per question.
 
@Makyen Fair enough - I suppose it can be deleted later, although I guess that it's arguably not really hurting anything right now since it's closed and it's just sitting there.
 
o/
 
@EJoshuaS I agree that it's not hurting anything. Frankly, I don't see a need to rush to delete it. It's been on the site for >7 years. Another couple/few days isn't going to hurt anything.
 
@Makyen It was hurting things before it was closed b/c it was drawing low-quality answers. All of its answers were deleted in the VLQ queue as link-only.
 
5:20 PM
Err, you're overestimating the Low Quality Posts Queue. :p
 
I wish if I have mod power today
so I can nuke all bad questions
:P
;)
how are things @BhargavRao
 
Going great, thanks. Wbu?
 
nothing much, doing something with firebase cloud
writing cloud functions
 
I am so angry right now, and I am a laid back and calm person.
 
@Xype grab a beer and enjoy it. :)
 
5:31 PM
@EJoshuaS As @BhargavRao, implied, the answers were deleted by a moderator (Bhargav Rao), not the VLQ. As to hurting things: Yes, it was an issue to get it closed, but once it's closed, leaving it there for a few days (weeks, or even months to accumulate delete votes) is unlikely to cause any significant issues.
 
can anyone post a comment there ?
 
@TGMCians have you flagged it? If so, no need to report here
 
I can't but I don't have 50 rep
 
I did
would be great if we can post comment too there
 
nvm, already gone
 
5:35 PM
ah yes
 
I am trying to get a little calm first. Here is the issue. You guys have some private moderators out there, that are being too quick, very rude, and it is causing you double work. I just noticed the latest incident has now had the question flaggexd
In my answer that was deleted the asker and I were working actively towards getting his question to a point where it could be answered and meaningful, and it is a fairly fresh post
 
@TGMCians only ask for a flag if you are either out of flags or if you're unsure if it needs a flag at all. That is in our FAQ: socvr.org/…
 
 
@rene :/
 
Now I went to the moderator who deleted my post, twice, and looked at some of his things. he does worsee. Answer with a comment, that is short, doesnt help and is necroposting.....but he deltes me who is trying to help. Heck his was on a question that had an acccepted answer.
So I am very upset it is like the mods around here do not wish people to help each other.
 
5:40 PM
BTW I didn't ask for there
 
@Xype that is not an answer, not your fault, the question is too broad. You shouldn't answer those.
 
right but as long as he was working with me to get his question to a point it could be answered (if you will notice the last thing I did was try to get him to put the appropriate information into the question) that is because I wanted the end result to be useful and clean.
Now if it wasnt active for like even a day I would get it, but I literally had just posted to get him to move his code to the question
 
@Xype Stack Overflow is strictly moderated. If we find stuff that is off-topic/too broad/unclear/ chit-chat / not an answer / just link it simply gets deleted.
 
Yeah, if it werent for the fact that he commented with code I woulda let it go, but moderators need to have a bit of sense
Also a moderator should not be resolving flags that are called to question his actions. I mean seriously
 
We have a lot of sense here, all 8 years long, pretty sucesful
 
5:42 PM
I flagged my own deleted post to question his actions and he cleared it himself.
im not saying all, t his guy is very bad
I mean he delted my stuff, well wtf is this just he is posting? stackoverflow.com/a/45496371/3630719
answered yesterday on a 3 year old post, that had an accepted answer, with no original or updated answer just a comment.
 
@Xype watch your language, OK?
 
sorry i didnt know test emojis had become considered foul. Accepted
emojis...acronyms god im not even t hinking anymore
 
Just FYI @Xype The question does not provide enough info to answer him, I gave him the best answer possible by giving him the proper path to get to a point we could help him. I am about tired of these abusive people on this site. the reviewers that deleted your answer had all the reason to do so. Again, answer question that can be answered, don't go on a forum like let's see where this ends.
That is more for Quora and other forums. If the question isn't up to par, flag it for closure but don't go answer that.
 
Now that I have calmed down even more. i feel like, with something that fresh, at least comminging and asking me to update it or close it myself would have been an appropriate first step. Rather than his rude comment and immediate deletion, while not deleting the question itself....
That was posted after he deleted my original answer and made a rude comment inside of his moderation.
I am about tired of things like that. You are harsh, elitistic, abrasive and your policies are not encouraging of building a community of helpful and talented people.
 
I'm pretty sure none of our mods are rude
@Xype we are not all that, we are different and that takes some time to get accustomed to.
If you would have paid attention you would have noticed I edited the question with the delete answer stackoverflow.com/q/45518585/578411 but at this point it still doesn't make a great question and I'm not going to touch what the Op left in the comments as that code made no sense at tall so far
 
5:57 PM
You should offer people the chance to change their question/answer or delete it themselves. instead of hitting our profile with negative moderation. Again at least give a post a day to try and get proper before saying yeah its trash. The guy asking was new, I am sure he would have loved help, and the endd result would have been u seful. You put the delete comment after my post was deleted for the second time. So I noticed right away actually, that I got hit twice before the question once
Now that guy who might of had someone quite friendly, help him through his project, get encouraged, learn, grow, advance the human race with software might go wow bad first experience I am out.
 
@Xype Nope, we're getting close to 10,000 posts a day. The crappy ones have to go immediately, there are not enough hands around to keep everything nice and clean. That approach would lead to a disaster
 
Basically this is what I saw. I was trying to help, and trying to move him towards learning how to ask a proper question and fix his question. If you will see he updated the code like my suggestion asked him to. But i got completely deleted and a negative moderation on my profile, while his question sits there.... Delete the poor question and my trying to be helpful situation would have gone with it, cant answer a non existing question.
 
We are not here for helping a single user. That question is hopeless, not a single future visitor will understand it. If you're into 1 on 1 coaching Stack Overflow is not the right premises
Keep in mind new users have gone through this. If they ticked the box at the bottom, we don't expect a low quality broad/no code question to be asked
If they do, they are told that is not what we expect. If we don't they will not learn and ask their next crappy question and you'll continue answering that crap. Not good. Not what we want here, that is not the goal set out in the tour
If you want to get more background on that you might find this meta post and many others on the same subject where you would learn the community still doesn't want these low quality question to linger around.
 
And your job is to make sensible moderations not stop the userbase from helping each other. All I am saying is you should give it, a very short mind you, window to let it correct itself before you go deleting things outright. I don't mind a nudge to fix it, then if I dont that is on me. Like I just got an edit that made sense, I reworded it.
Oh I agree they shouldn't linger, but within 24 hours I don't feel is unreasonable to allow it to attempt to grow to something meaningful.
After that if its not where it should be it probably won't get there
 
@Xype the question in on hold now for 7 days and if the OP edits it into shape, it will go into the re-open queue where 5 users will judge if it is good enough. Plenty of time
 
6:13 PM
In the meantime I have a negative moderation action against me, and while his question still isnt great, it is 100% better, I can at least see now he just doesn't have a clue what he is doing, before it was pure vaigue. So I improve, he gets a chance, I get negatives... Wonderful.
The only reason I havn't ran away is I lurked and read on this site for so many years and learned so much. I want to give back.
Now look at this, this is the post I just edited by request for using the word crap. You let this stuff go on....

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23435566/is-there-a-runtime-proxy-creation-library-that-supports-to-retain-annotations-of/45518073#45518073
 
@Xype yes, that is a good feedback system, that gets people on the edge. Exactly as we want it.
 
The guy WROTE the software, it is his stuff, he asked the question and answered it himself, then accepted his own answer, and my answer proved his answer was wrong. He is doing shameless self promotion.
Why should I get punished though, you could see I was steering him towards the right path. Cant you hide my post while his is on hold, instead of red inking me?
Then if you deleted his mine goes away, no red ink. And if he fixed his question I could in turn fix my answer. Seems like a much more sensible, community encouraging way to moderate.
I understand you mods have probably gotten fed up and rather synical over the years though.
 
@Xype just cool off man ..
 
Bob
I recently lost the right to post questions on stack overflow. Any words of advice?
 
@Bob did you read and followed all at advice here?
 
Bob
6:21 PM
I read it all
 
@Xype Sorry to barge in, but you should understand that the question should be useful not only for the asker but for other users with similar issues, so it's very important to include all the required details when posting a question on SO (Clear description, code example and so on). You can't moderate the content effectively if anyone could get a grace period
 
So me explaining how the long standing of running new developers away from every documentation, tutorial, and answer ever given using Foo Bar which just leads to more confusing is worse than shameless not helpful self promotion. WOW
24 hours isnt even a grace period.
 
Bob
I am tempted to delete my account and start over. Can I delete my account on stackoverflow and keep my account on stackexchange?
 
If you one ask a question, they must not assume that the community will ask them for extra details - It's up to them to provide it in the first place.
 
@Xype if you can put that in a reasonable worded question that isn't derogatory to the community you could post on Meta and then see what the rest of the crows thinks of that
 
6:23 PM
I mean really I really think this site has too many mods just running around trying to make people hate being here.
It was not derogatory
 
@Bob did you really read that meta post? Because if you ask that I doubt you have...
 
Bob
I did read the meta post.
it is advises against that
 
check
 
Bob
but it implies it is an option
 
so is this: Your accounts may be deleted without warning.
 
Bob
6:25 PM
so you would advise against it
 
@Xype sure, I hear that often and I disagree.
@Bob yes. You can ask an awesome question in 6 months. Or you could answer questions instead of asking them.
 
Bob
would answering questions get the ban lifted sooner?
 
I will accept your disagreement. I am disagreeing with you and I reworded it. Thank you for fixing my code block lol
I don't agree but you are a mod and approached it the right way. Thank you for that.
 
@Bob No, but it will help in becoming a better researcher so you can ask a better question once you have the opportunity
 
Now what about that original question in that, and the guys answer, that is a wrong answer just there for shameless self promotion and an attempt to discredit an other piece of software?
 
6:28 PM
@AlonEitan (@Xype) Questions do, generally, get a grace period. The process for questions is "on-hold"->"closed"->deleted. Each stage takes 9–10 days. The goal is to have it improved. However, the question, ideally, starts that process (being put "on-hold") as soon as people notice that the question does not meet requirements. However, it may take years for a question to be noticed and the process begun, because there are just too few people doing moderation, not too many.
 
@Xype Think about it - Why should YOU wait for details to answer a question? You don't get paid, you're helping purely for the sake of helping, so the waiting part should be only for the asker, waiting to get an answer, and not for you - waiting for the asker, that may not even bother to provide them
 
@Xype I'm not a mod. The only mods that so far interacted with you are Ed Cottrel and Cody, from what I can see.
 
Bob
is there a way for me to determine the date the ban will be lifted?
 
Do you know how much more I learned from helping people solve their problems, than I ever did from any class?
 
@Bob No, in 6 months you can ask a single question
 
6:30 PM
Well still even if you were a mod, that is the correct approach imo.
 
@Xype Nothing?
I have a bizarre sense of humor
 
Almost everything. I rarely put to use anything from a class lol.
 
@Makyen Of course I know that, but I think that @Xype is talking about a grace period in a sense that it should not be touched by anyone
 
Bob
if I get some people to like my questions in the next few months, will the ban be lifted?
 
noooo, I am saying 24 hours from original question asking to let the users try to get it fixed before giving up and killing it.
definatley not permanent.
 
6:31 PM
@Bob if your questions get up votes, sure. But don't organize a voting mob, that will be even more harshly dealt with, for you and the voters.
 
Also maybe you don't have a tool to hide a question, which would be a platform flaw, but it still hurts.
ermm hide the answer to a on hold question I mean
 
@Xype What in your opinion counts as "before giving up and killing it" what actions result killing a question on SO?
 
Bob
is there a way for me to check the date the ban went into effect? I do not post regularly on stackoverlow.
 
@Bob find your last question or reputation event
 
Bob
I think it was 2 days ago
but the ban has been in effect more than 2 days
it was may 16 I think
 
6:37 PM
His question Is there a runtime proxy creation library that supports to retain annotations of the proxied class? his solution was yes and no, he did not retain them, he rewrote them, due to a limitation in his software. That a piece of software is mentioned in his question. He makes out like javassist can only do proxy classes, when it can easily just edit a method and not mess with its original annotations at all. Which his software is incapable of.
 
@Bob count a bit back then. Or take 6 months from 2 days ago.
 
This is great example of trash code. Worse than the junk in my mail box
 
Bob
2 days ago was when I edited a question
and the ban was in effect
 
@Xype For questions, they already get that grace period (except exceptional circumstances, e.g. spam). It is (at least) 9 days long, but it's called "on-hold". If they edit the question in that time it can be reviewed and reopened. The first time any question is edited after being put on-hold it's automatically placed in a "reopen" review queue and reviewed by several users who will indicate if they think the question should be reopened. If enough do, then the question is reopened.
 
@Bob when did asked your last question and when did you got your last downvote on a question
 
Bob
6:38 PM
I posted the question on May 16
it did not have any down votes
 
May 16th can be the date then that the ban went in effect
No votes is a quality indicator
 
Bob
is there a way for me to verify that?
 
Mine was redified the first time, that was upsetting.
 
Bob
@rene is there a conclusion?
 
6:47 PM
No, I told you from the start you can't know exactly. So either your last asked question or one of the down votes did put you over the edge.
 
Bob
@rene thank you very much for your time and your input
@rene have a nice day
 
You're welcome, have a nice day as well.
 
@Xype Yes. That it was upsetting is clear and unfortunate. The process for answers is different and more direct. As yours was, answers can be deleted by several users agreeing that the answer should be deleted. You can, however, still edit the answer to the point that you feel it should be undeleted. You can then flag it for moderator attention with a custom reason asking for it to be undeleted. An actual moderator will then look at the answer and make a choice.
@Xype Note that you did, in fact, do something wrong. You Answered the question when you knew that the question did not have enough information to be answered. You explicitly stated in your answer that the question, in it's then current state, could not be answered due to not enough info. Answering then is not something that you should be doing. You appear to have known that at the time you did it. Now that you have >50 reputation you can leave comments on questions asking for clarification.
 
@Xype on the subject of too broad question: meta post and a related one and you might like
 
 
2 hours later…
9:23 PM
New modz \o/, maybe on day, we will see that for the cv queue also
 
9:42 PM
what what whaaaat?
is that a hallucination
 
Or maybe today is a day where all the posts were decent
Just kidding
 
A clear sign that we have new mods, I wounder if it has sense that I review those, mods will get most of them anyway... ;)
I actually stopped for awhile, but now that @Floern is doing some cool stats, I started again
@EJoshuaS stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/16926004, sounds strange "that this question", maybe "that this tag should be used only for...", I'm skipping
 
 
1 hour later…
11:18 PM
@KubaOber @rene This cv-pls is for a question which is now locked (OP was vandalizing). We can't do anything about the request. I assume the appropriate thing is to move the request to the graveyard (request was valid when posted).
 
Ron
Saturday night fever?
 

« first day (1353 days earlier)      last day (2464 days later) »