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4:00 PM
and lordettes
 
what about the apache helicopters..? TRIGERRED
 
they don't have apchae velocity..
 
hmm, okay, it uses instanceof_function
oh wait maybe it's an initialisation order thing
 
most likely
check if it's null?
probably just silently ignoring it in that case
 
$ sapi/cli/php -r ';'
Hello from JSON! Welcome to Douglas CrockPHP: The Good Parts!
hello from SPL! welcome to Oracle® JavaPHPant®!
Sure enough, ext/json's MINIT is executed earlier.
Maybe I can register JsonException late.
Probably not ideal though…
 
4:44 PM
@PeeHaa I made a thing
For Jeeves
 
it is a hat?
scarf? mittens
say it's mittens
 
It's a cat but he's called mittens so I guess we can say it's mittens
 
wow
that sounds staged
 
:P
 
@DaveRandom You made ExceptionalJSON so I should've @'d this at you: github.com/php/php-src/pull/2662
 
4:50 PM
Well really it's a plugin but I just have to clean up the code a bit before making a pull request
 
But the plugin can be called Mittens.php
 
What does it do?
 
converts different units of measurement as well as currency based on an open issue
Well maybe it can be improved but it's a starting point :B
 
4:57 PM
o/
 
O/
 
\o
 
it's just getting worse
 
24 hours ago, by Kaori
Jul 25 at 13:13, by Kaori
Jan 25 at 9:38, by Trucy
1 min ago, by Gordon
51 secs ago, by Joe Watkins
21 secs ago, by Dejan Marjanovic
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
 
5:01 PM
@PaulCrovella What is getting worse o.o?
 
overwhelming frustration
 
crippling depression
 
joe, we made need to lower the bar. can you try using chat via your cell instead? and don't look to closely
 
it won't matter, we will still know we are failures ...
 
need some kind of win here
 
5:04 PM
it's everyone else's fault, they aren't committing ...
 
is it annoying if someone puts a ':)' in a comment
 
in code ?
 
yes
 
kill them before they breed
 
I was reviewing my friend's code and found lol in a comment -.-
 
5:05 PM
if they put that in a comment in code they're not breeding anyway
 
lol
don't really like comments in general ...
you write comments when code isn't clear enough ...
 
true dat ^
 
or when requirements prevents sane course of action
sneaky approval
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier please leave your bag of excuses at the door, there isn't enough room in here for that ...
 
5:07 PM
pfffff
 
@Andrea ooh nice one, +1
 
my favorite comment to add is // Auto-generated code starts here. Do not edit.
 
hahah... I guess I should put that in all of my files... time to edit the file template in Pstorm
 
@JoeWatkins I had to develop a wrapper around pyramid/phoenix (a python backend that manages jobs) which require the presence of an input named submit to actually do stuff. Baffled was I realised that, hence left a comment telling future dev to not remove that 1990 way of building a form. pray tell, would you just have kept faith that someone would not trample the form some day?
 
I write a comment before almost every line of code in my code, I thought it was good practice
 
5:12 PM
are you going to document the entirety of your platform inline ?
 
Not anymore I'm not
 
don't be silly, there's a place for that, and it isn't inline ...
^Felix
 
@JoeWatkins oh as in like, actual documentation?
... fair point.
 
you mean that stuff no one reads... or updates... or remembers is exists
 
same can be said of comments, 98% of all the comments I have ever read were wrong anyway ...
 
5:16 PM
but you did read them :p
 
just before I forced someone to remove them, sure ...
documentation is an important thing on teams over a certain size ... developer docs, user guides, client documentation, policy documents and so on ... it won't happen by accident ... if you are working on a big team and you don't know who is working on that, and you aren't doing it, stop what you are doing and find out, or volunteer ...
 
@JoeWatkins How do you feel about these two?
Those are comments that I put these because in one case it was the result of me bug-hunting for a while because stuff was happening in the wrong order, and in the other case the code is necessarily somewhat unintuitive
 
"oh yeah, we have a wiki - it's at... wait, that's the old wiki"... "yeah search broke a couple years ago" "no, on the new one"
 
also yes I did use gotos there because I am a terrible person
 
all but one of the big projects I've ever worked on required several days of just reading ... they had some kind of documentation ... I'll admit, some of it was wrong ... but it was better than it not existing in the first place ...
 
5:25 PM
with you on that, but i'm also fine with useful comments inline
 
I write comments in code for personal projects ... it's reasonable that you may be able to document the entirety of a small component using inline comments and have documentation generated and maintained alongside comments in code ... totally reasonable ...
it becomes unreasonable when you are talking about the interaction of many components, or programmers
 
an inline comment is the best way to have a small chance that someone will actually read and update them as related code changes.
@PaulCrovella the related question has had my hate for ruby skyrocket. what the hell is that borked way of serving assets.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier now you're trying to talk to me about ruby...
 
if this is all the documentation you have, and I assume it is, then comment the crap out of whatever you like ... but if you have documentation, or intend to have it, that's definitely a better place ... you can no more trust someone to update an inline comment than you can trust whoever is responsible for maintaining documentation to maintain it ...
 
5:41 PM
 
@PaulCrovella ?
 
@Linus if that honey he just drank a cup of is only 80% pure - what's the rest of it?
 
Does anyone know if it's possible to have @Jeeves output two consecutive messages from one command?
 
@Alesana I wpuld love to have cat ears and tail but I think it's impossible. And you¨?
 
Oh no, now I am having second thoughts about giving him this kitten....
 
5:46 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it's become an unpleasant theme today
 
@PaulCrovella water? :p
 
oh. apologies.
 
@PaulCrovella btw how did that question come to your mind i don't think this much while watching cartoons
 
I don't know
 
:P
 
5:55 PM
@Alesana Oooh
 
@PeeHaa I just made a pull request, I don't know 100% it will work with Jeeves because I didn't have anything to test it with... but I tested each function individually
 
Lemme check :)
 
It's my first contribution to anything open source :D
I hope it doesn't suck
 
Cool
Worst thing that can happen is that we point out things to improve :-)
 
I'm expecting that :P
 
5:57 PM
wait, do we do that with jeeves?
 
@PeeHaa I think you just opened a whole new can of worms... :P
 
Hey Guys. Sorry for the cold start: I'm thinking about hashing my usernames (for privacy reasons). Does that sound stupid? Has anyone ever heard about some software stack which only stored the hashes of their usernames? I know this is not necessarily PHP specific, but I guess you guys handle userdata tables more often than any other of the channels
 
What use do usernames have when they are hashed?
 
@DavidNathan It would be the same as using two passwords
 
not much use, but I don't want to display them. It would be like 2 passwords
 
6:00 PM
k
Why do you need two passwords?
 
You need some identifier unless you want to loop through all your users and try each one with the username they entered
 
You are also not going to ask for email address?
No account recovery?
No way to contact people?
No nothing?
 
no, I am trying to keep the data as anonymous as possible
Every account gets a registration code that can be used to reset everything
 
ok and how are you not going to leak usernames?
You will have to check for uniqueness
 
I'm pretty new to this privacy stuff so I don't know what are best practices there
why would I leak usernames?
 
6:02 PM
You registered with name foo
I want to register too
Lemme think of the name I want
I know!
foo
Now what?
 
i see your point
 
@PeeHaa Oh there is a part where I wanted to have Jeeves send two consecutive messages but I couldn't find how
 
@Alesana That's kinda hard because it throttles messages right after eachother
We do have a mechanism to fix that, but it's somewhat clunky
 
Ah it's not important then
 
We mostly try to get around it by pretty formatting multiline messages
Which also sucks because multiline message doesn't do markdown
 
6:04 PM
It's more about us not having a user with username Hans.Oberlander123 in our database. I guess that would qualify as identifiable information
 
errrrr
wait
 
if we just stored the hash it wouldn't be identifiable, unless we try all combinations of the names
+ numbers etc
 
Ah okay, like I said it was nothing important
 
This smells like you are trying to work around some audit/law thing
 
@Alesana I see no pints to pints conversion
 
6:06 PM
@PaulCrovella Ah good catch, I don't know why I didn't do that one
 
Yes, I am trying to figure out what best practices are to save "anonymous" userdata.
 
Take 6 steps back
 
I guess I didn't do any volume conversions
 
And yes, hashing usernames sounds stupid, but I thought there might be other best practices in those kind of situations
 
Why do you need to do this?
 
6:07 PM
I want to store userdata without haveing any identifiable data in there
 
Why?
!!xy
 
1124
Q: What is the XY problem?

GnomeWhat is the XY problem? When asking questions, how do I recognize when I'm falling into it? How do I avoid it? Return to FAQ index

 
because I want to build an app that promises it's users that I can not identify them
 
Where are you from?
 
I'm form germany
 
6:08 PM
And where will it be operating and being hosted?
 
Germany probably
And in Germany perople are much more concious of their private data
 
Did you check your local laws about retention?
 
I think it's one of the last countries where the majority uses firefox as their browser
No, what does that mean?
 
I wonder whether you don't need to actual store some things in germany
Idunno. I am Dutch so I wouldn't know
How do you handle logs?
 
you mean whether I'm required by law to stor identifiable data?
 
6:10 PM
yes
 
That would be pretty fucked up
 
How do you handle logs?
 
But yes, I see where you are coming from.
I don't handle them for now
 
they're big and heavy and wood
 
Anonymous
!!wotd
 
6:11 PM
membranophone: any musical instrument, as a drum, in which the sound is produced by striking, rubbing, or blowing against a membrane stretched over a frame.
 
so do you think saving usernames is not "identifiable information" and if someone calls themselves firstname.lastname it's their fault?
 
Yes
 
because I have never even heard about someone hashing their usernames
Ok, I'll go with that for now. Thanks!
 
Unrelated related question. But I am curious. How do you hash passwords?
 
@DavidNathan you can edit your messages for a couple minutes after posting them. either via pressing arrow up for the most recent message or via the menu available on the message
 
6:13 PM
@PaulCrovella Since you took a look at the plugin do you have any constructive criticism?... or even, non-constructive criticism?
 
promising privacy to users is easy. Delivering on the promise not so much. It's might not be as easy as you think you let your users believe
I am scared
 
@PeeHaa what do you mean. You mean how hashing works?
 
“feature freeze” means “only features the RM likes can be added from now on”
 
@Alesana i just flipped through looking for pints.. i did a big unit conversion thing a bunch of years ago and the pints thing pissed me off
 
Oh haha
 
6:14 PM
@DavidNathan I know kinda understand how it works somehow. But answer my question. How are you hashing passwords. What does your code look like?
 
@PeeHaa ah you mean how I do it in particular? For now I'm using the integrated functionality of django
 
And how does that do it?
 
lemme check...
 
You should be fully aware of things like this before you can even think about trying to create a pletform like this imho
 
@Andrea it's good to be the king
 
6:18 PM
As far as I understood from a quick peek behind the scenes django simply prepends a salt and sha1 hashes the whole thing
 
Ohgod no
 
and md5 for shorter hashes...
 
 
Maybe you should aim somewhere... less high security / privacy wise. Not meant to be putting you off, but things like that scare me for you future users
 
OHGOD NO
 
6:19 PM
I'm actually surprised. If I remember correctly neither are considered secure anymore
 
thank @ircmaxell PHP has password_hash()
 
ok I have several improvements. I will go through it properly later if that is ok. @Alesana. It may result in a yuuuge list of remarks on github. Buuuut don't let that scare you away. It will mostly be code style and some sanity check perhaps. And I am willing to walk you through it
 
> By default, Django uses the PBKDF2 algorithm with a SHA256 hash
 
Oh at least it does PBKDF2
 
6:23 PM
yeah my bad, that was legacy code I looked at
 
@PeeHaa Awesome thank you! Code style is definitely the thing I have to work on the most (I think) so if I can figure out the proper way to style it that'd be great.
 
@Alesana BTW you can also setup a local jeeves pretty easily so I will show you how to do that too
 
0
Q: How to append a div that has dynamic codes inside it with PHP/Javascript/Ajax/Jquery?

McGregorI have 1 textbox and 3 dropdowns and it uses 2 php files. The textbox is for inputting number of questions. The three dropdowns are Category > Subcategory > Question. They're all dynamic and related to each other. When a category is selected from the first dropdown, question dropdowns will be gen...

 
Will ping you
And thanks (in advance) for your work
 
> asked 1 min ago
have some patience
 
6:25 PM
@PeeHaa Ah great I was trying to do that on a virtualbox with CentOS but I couldn't figure it out
Not a problem, hopefully once I improve my coding skills I will contribute some more :D
 
Cool <3
 
also, @Jola, why are you posting questions under a different account?
 
@PaulCrovella hmm wtf are you on about?
How are you asking on a question ban else?
:P
Just be glad his new account learned from past mistakes and asks good questions
/me goes back to his point n click game :P
 
@NikiC if you're around: re: that type error pull request of mine, would you be okay with a shorter description of the expected type? i.e. rather than "integer (or convertible float, convertible string or boolean)", maybe "integer (or integer-convertible value)"?
 
@PeeHaa it's a lot easier to flag these when I can link to a chat message of them admitting it rather than have to explain it in a message to the mods. but thanks for stepping in.
 
6:37 PM
:D
Sorry for ruining it for you :(
 
@PaulCrovella people use sockpuppets on SO? …why?
 
get around question bans, feed themselves rep, retaliate against other users.. no shortage of things people do with sockpuppets
 
is it often just people asking really low-quality questions?
 
how did I know :/
 
6:45 PM
what's amazing is they manage to get caught.. i mean it takes basically no effort at all not to - they have to go out of their way to do it
 
putting up proxy for your different logins could be bothersome, I'd say
 
you don't need one, a shared ip alone isn't enough to out a puppet
 
@Andrea Is it really helpful?
 
... I'd apparently make a terrible sockpuppet owner
 
Keep in mind that "weak mode" is how internal functions have always worked
On a side note, if we're mass changing tests anyway, this would be a good time to replace integer with int and boolean with bool
 
6:49 PM
@NikiC good point
 
in other news Stack Overflow now has its own app on iOS and Android made it to the lowest scored living meta question ... I wonder how it'd go over if I added "for some reason" to the title
6
 
@NikiC I'm not sure, but I really don't like that currently, the error messages for strict and weak mode are the same, and that it'll tell you foo expected, bar given as if bar is the problem, when it isn't necessarily.
 
@Andrea but isn't bar always the problem?
 
@PaulCrovella do it
@NikiC yes. what I mean is that it makes no distinction between passing the wrong value of a given type and passing the wrong type
but the “error adjective” patch fixes that latter issue, I think
 
@Andrea but isn't this already solved by the additional information you are providing now?
 
6:54 PM
that's what I just said, yeah
the strict/non-strict issue remains, however
anyway, I'll split out the patch giving the reason for rejection into its own branch
 
@PaulCrovella some part of me thinks the post would get scored much better, some other part of me would fear the retaliation
 
7:13 PM
is it possible to get url-rewrites with built-in php server?
 
sure
 
you need to specify a router script
yeah, that
 
hmm ... fuck ... it wont work for my project :(
the dependencies are too fucky
 
7:19 PM
... it's the database, that's the issue
 
ah...
So I rewrote some small application wrapped around HTMLPurifier (a bit older version), it was running on HHVM, I ditched that and used PHP7, and got 5x or more better performance, not sure if the previous thing was misconfigured somehow, or PHP7 is just fast.
 
likely misconfigured
 
7:38 PM
Probably, I was too lazy to check, config was weird, anyways from 6 servers to 2 for the same thing.
 
8:07 PM
Opcache causes strange behavior for superglobal vars – #75005
 
oh that reminds me, it's annoying how the CLI server won't forward requests to index.php if they contain a period
 
@Andrea Always specify a router script
 
@NikiC oh, is that the trick to it
 
I don't know why we even have that weird magic if no router is used
 
We should just get rid of it. :P
 
8:13 PM
it has let me be blissfully unaware of the router script option for years :p
 
Anonymous
Is there a tool that logs outbound http requests?
 
Anonymous
Like the 'network' tab in the console ... but more mature
 
8:31 PM
@samayo Wireshark.
@samayo More mature than the network tab?
 
Anonymous
@kelunik thanks. I mean by that, I don't have to lose data if I accidentally refresh the page
 
Anonymous
I want to record all outbound http requests
 
@samayo Chrome's dev-tools have a "preserve log" option
So that it doesn't destroy the logs on reload
Also, you can export the logs to a file, and import them later
 
@samayo tcpdump?
@samayo and why would you loose data from wireshark by refreshing a page?
 
Anonymous
@MadaraUchiha hmm ... i'm an idiot, I didn't know about that ..
 
8:44 PM
You aren't an idiot.
 
Anonymous
@tereško I was talking about the console, I'll try wireshark
 
@PaulCrovella heh, hadn't seen that one before. What a wreck
 
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