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3:00 PM
@samayo things like DDD start making sense when you work on large projects, putting the business requirements into code etc
if you are just creating small throwaway CRUD websites, then it will look like overengineering (and it is for those projects)
 
@samayo Wtf - that's also how you get Laravel "let's make it fun and be damned with the technical and business consequences"
 
But if you write the backend for a bank, accounting software or something like that, then quick, easy and fun are the least important thing
That being said, BDD with Behat, CQRS and DDD is a lot of fun. But maybe I'm just weird
 
No, it's that even with reading that book things are all over the place
 
Anonymous
@Patrick Trust me. All those successful developers who become rich entrepreneurs, founders ... don't squander time trying to perfect every minute details of programming practices (which btw evolve faster before you can master it). Do that, and you'll end up working until you find yourself too old to work as a developer some day.
 
Anonymous
@Jimbo ^
 
3:08 PM
@samayo didn't you just get your first job? ;)
 
Anonymous
Just try to keep a balance. Time is precious don't waste it over new trends or hipster ideas
 
@samayo Some of us aren't in it solely for the money
I don't want to become a rich entrepreneur or founder - to me, there are more important things in life like family
You always sacrifice to do that, and it's not something I'm willing to do
 
@samayo that's why you should focus on basics: SOLID, SoC, LoD, CQS ... thing's like that
 
@FlorianMargaine that's not a Zend Extension though :P
 
this is true
still not something I've come across
 
3:12 PM
@samayo I agree with ignoring trends, but I highly disagree with not perfecting programming
Approach it like a craftsman and try to master your craft
 
You can choose to be a pragmatist when the time comes, but having the knowledge and striving to do your best helps you massively
 
@pmmaga I've had a good look at the zend accelerator code and it's a bit scary for someone who's not that well versed in C or the PHP internals. Are there any other simpler examples of zend extensions?
 
@samayo Also, I had multiple projects fail a couple of years ago when I was trying to launch products because I built in too much technical debt (yay CodeIgniter...)
 
Kind of where I'm at, my skillset is outdated, and I have to work on this on my own time or brief periods at work where another project isn't demanding my time. I want to improve. I need to improve if I ever want to find another job because with my current skillset, I won't find anything.
 
3:14 PM
although that was my first attempt to create one, so take that into account :P
 
SoC.. standard of code?
 
Anonymous
@Patrick Try harder :)
 
separation of concerns
 
separation of concerns
dammit
 
@samayo no. try smarter
 
3:15 PM
oooh right
 
Thanks @pmmaga
 
But I have to take this at my own pace or I will get burnt out
 
Anonymous
@Sean you high?
 
Anonymous
:B
 
on another note, I can't figure out why this exception isn't catching
 
3:17 PM
@Tiffany it's not a race (especially not if you are already employed)
 
Anonymous
@samayo I feel like you're trying to troll ..
 
@JayIsTooCommon Just not heard it as an abbreviation before :P
 
@Patrick I need to get better within three to four years so that I can find work when my boyfriend and I move in together.
plenty of time, however
 
Anonymous
I agree with @tereško, the fundamentals whose purpose are crystal clear are the most important things to learn. For anything else trendy or avant-garde, I would have to take my time before I invest anything into it.
 
@Tiffany now that's some long term planning :o
that should be easily doable if you do a little every week
 
Anonymous
3:18 PM
My long term plan is to get out of this whole programming thing..
 
@Tiffany according to UncleBob, the amount of developers doubles every 5 years. Which means, that half of developers are always with less than 5 years of experience.
 
consistency is king (or queen)
 
yeah, I need to get into a habit of working on this at least once a week, or just a little each day
 
Anonymous
Also hoping to release my book soon - "Professional PHP: Building maintainable and secure applications"
 
@JayIsTooCommon are you being serious or sarcastic? if serious, I wanna read it... (in my defense, sometimes you're sarcastic, and I'm not very good at picking up sarcasm, especially over the internet)
 
3:20 PM
@JayIsTooCommon shouldn't that be a booklet instad? Or a postcard, with "Don't" written on the back.
 
Anonymous
@Patrick :D
 
Anonymous
@Tiffany nah just trolling Patrick
 
@Tiffany thats the book that I'm writing. He's referencing the last email that I sent out
 
@JayIsTooCommon .." in laravel"
 
Anonymous
3:22 PM
:B
 
@Patrick ahhhh
well then, I want to read it :P
 
@Tiffany hop on the email list then (bottom of every blogpost) :)
 
link to blog?
 
I have about half the book edited and 2 chapters left to write
 
3:27 PM
Step 1: download laravel core (probably a zip file)
Step 2: Develop your secure, maintainable application
Step 3: Remember that stupid laravel archive you downloaded, and delete it
6
 
@Dereleased that problem I was having and couldn't figure out yesterday... was something stupid
 
@Tiffany Did my problem solving steps help? =D
 
A little, though I opted for xanax instead of booze, since booze gives me a migraine.
 
Anonymous
That just means you haven't had enough booze
 
@Tiffany You sound like my wife
 
Anonymous
3:30 PM
It's your brain, through the wonders of evolution, telling you it requires more alcohol.
 
@JayIsTooCommon Alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, most of life's problems
 
I've tried, @JayIsTooCommon, my head just hurts worse.
Screwdrivers and some other mixed drinks are what I can safely drink usually without problem. Anything else, I have to sip.
 
@Tiffany Usually more sugar = more headache = more hangover, so that's interesting
 
I wonder if something in orange juice helps prevent the migraine? I find it curious too.
 
Anonymous
Just mix your spirits with Berocca
 
3:34 PM
So, I'm throwing an exception, it's getting caught, however instead of "Page not found" displaying, it still displays a Whoops error. Is there something I'm missing?
 
@Tiffany namespaces
 
I'm in this place right now where I'm realizing I can write a very efficient query that customizes itself and gets everything I need in one shot, but looks complicated and unmaintainable, or I can write two queries that live in different objects (because reasons) but are extremely readable and maintainable... but there's two of them that have to run every time. =(
 
your InvalidPageException is actually NoFramework\Page\InvalidPageException ... but you are catching NoFramework\Controllers\InvalidPageException, @Tiffany
 
Bonus third option, explicitly write every possible variation of the single-query version, so it's still efficient and readable, there's just so much duplication it makes the back of my eyeballs itch
 
@tereško that's what's in the tutorial though
 
3:37 PM
all tutorials lie
 
Page.php is in the Controllers folder, and InvalidPageException.php is in the Page folder, along with FilePageReader.php
 
@Dereleased I've found if I chug a glass of water for every 2 glasses of wine I drink, it's usually fine.
But you're right. The trick is diet soda and gin or some other dry spirit.
 
@Tiffany "Make sure that you use an use statement for the InvalidPageException at the top of the file."
what a horrible sentence, but that's what you are missing :D
are you not using PHPStorm? Pretty sure it would tell you what's wrong
 
yeah, tutorial has "InvalidArgumentException"
and phpstorm had that grayed out, but I ignored it
I changed it to InvalidPageException, I'll check it now.
 
@bwoebi What's this doing here? github.com/amphp/aerys/pull/155/… If the write fails, shouldn't it just fail at that point?
i.e.: throw a ClosedException that the connection went away.
 
3:43 PM
@Allenph The biggest trick is not fooling yourself into thinking you can handle an entire bottle of Maker's by yourself if you drink it as 27 shots instead of 12 glasses
 
@Dereleased What about an entire bottle of grain alcohol?
 
@Allenph I'm assuming you mean at least 75.5% alcohol, as lower than that is usually just called vodka. And that, of course, is a great idea, drinking a whole bottle of PGA; try this at home, kids!
Back later, conducting interviews
 
just add rubbing alcohol
 
@Dereleased Just emailed you.
 
switching use InvalidArgumentException; to use InvalidPageException; worked, but now it can't find the class for InvalidPageException. I think I'm stuck, but I haven't quite given up (for now) on trying to figure it out.
 
3:57 PM
Why are segfaults a thing :< Still can't figure out what's going on
 
@Tiffany use NoFramework\Page\InvalidPageException;
you need the right namespace
click on the exception, alt + enter and then import
 
Anonymous
@Sean xdebug?
 
@Patrick didn't know phpstorm could do that. But it's throwing the "no page with slug "test" was found" again. I might take lunch and look at this after. I might just need a break.
I figured it out. I added use NoFramework\Page\InvalidPageException; to Page.php, it's working now.
YAY.
@Patrick out of curiosity, is using templates a separate solution than using dynamic pages with markdown? It feels like doing the same thing, just a different way.
 
4:17 PM
@Tiffany templates are html templates for your app. the dynamic markdown pages are for the cms/blog
But it's an old tutorial... :)
 
I see. I like the idea of using markdown pages because I could write something for a project I've been working on for a business, and enable the owner to provide his own content and not have to go through me.
Which is something I've wanted from the beginning, I just didn't know how to approach it
Or I was going to use a open-source platform
It may be old, but it's still effective.
 
Anonymous
like @JoeWatkins
 
Anonymous
apart from the effective bit
 
4:51 PM
@Patrick so sorry! :D
 
@Patrick When you're rich and famous from your book don't forget us small folk.
 
@JayIsTooCommon good \o/
Where is it?
 
5:08 PM
How do I pull a github package branch with composer that isn't on packagist?
 
@Fabor vcs package types
 
{
	"repositories": [{
		"type": "vcs",
		"url": "https://github.com/baselbers/mpdf"
	}],
	"require": {
		"baselbers/mpdf": "dev-mpdf"
	}
}
Oi. I K'd that
I'm told i need to prefer dev- to the branch but this doesn't seem to work. Tried without too
 
Evenin
 
I get: "The requested package baselbers/mpdf could not be found in any version, there may be a typo in the package name."
 
5:13 PM
@Jimbo lol
 
5:26 PM
Odd :(
Would anyone else mind trying to get the above library through composer please?
 
dev-mpdf?
 
well it's mpdf but I read you need to prepend dev-. I try it without
 
oh weird branch name
Same
 
5:42 PM
Wonder if it's a bug
 
And github is thottling me now :P
 
@Fabor try "mpdf/mpdf": "dev-mpdf"
 
hey guys
 
ha
good one
 
@PaulCrovella It's forked from mpdf, is that how that works?
 
5:53 PM
@Fabor It's the name
In the composer config file
 
@Fabor it's still the package name, github.com/baselbers/mpdf/blob/mpdf/composer.json#L3 and it'll be grabbed because your custom repo takes priority over packagist
 
I see. I wonder if I should submit an SO question for this. Or maybe I was just crap at searching
 
well, getcomposer.org/doc/… pretty much covers it
 
@Fabor It's really RTFM
And actually checking the name instead of assuming things ;-)
 
Skimming failed me.
 
5:55 PM
then again SO loves rtfm questions and you'll probably get plenty of rep for it
 
I realised it will bump me off 502, so no thanks.
 
lol
 
we should have jeeves starting posting questions in the first person, asking what's wrong with him
 
heh. How much rep does Jeeves have?
@Jeeves How much rep you got?
 
@Fabor More than you want.
 
6:00 PM
I've been forked. How can someone use composer to grab a branch of me from that fork?
 
Speaking of fork, I am hungry :(
Only ate a sandwich and cupcakes today.
 
hi hungry
 
There's no late-night food places here. Not that they would speak english anyway. KFC stops delivering at 8pm!!
 
your kfc delivers?
 
What is this? 2004bc?
Yeah, heh. All the fast food places do. They're also far from fast, even in store they cook most fresh.
 
6:12 PM
when I want kfc I have to actually exit my home and travel there, like some kind of animal
4
 
When I want kfc I usually stab myself in the neck - I don't want kfc
 
!!issue Allow LXR URL to be dynamically set via commands - Or at least switched between a whitelist of LXR installations, like !!lxr-switch adam, !!lxr-switch php, !!lxr-switch room11.
 
@Ocramius heh, it's pretty good here tbh. I hated it back in the UK
@PaulCrovella The savagery. I thought delivery of fast food was becoming more of a thing in the UK, though maybe through 3rd party.
 
I'm not in the UK
 
6:20 PM
s/UK/US
 
dammit selenium and alert windows
frikken legacy garbage :-\
 
@JayIsTooCommon just fuck you jay, fuck you ...
2
 
Good news ladies and gentle ben. There's a 10 hour version of this.
 
@Fabor it is, though most 3rd-party services are too pricey to be worth it for one person... plus they tend to be very localized little startups that quickly shift to only handle corporate food service
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins love you..
 
6:23 PM
Lame. Well, US fats food is <3.
 
@JoeWatkins sorry. had to take a nap. it finished the compile eventually... what do you want me to do?
 
@WesStark grab pthreads master, apply this and see if you can compile the ext ?
 
Anonymous
Is someone working on sub-nesting namespaces likes this.
 
Anonymous
use foo{
  bar{ a, b},
  baz,
  qux
}
 
@samayo plz no
 
Anonymous
6:30 PM
definately yes!!.
 
Anonymous
It just a small step from what is possible.
 
definitely
 
what the fuck - as if scope resolution wasn't complex enough for anything relying on parsers
add import "foo" . random_bytes(5) from array_rand(['dependency1', 'dependency2']); since you are already there
 
@samayo yes, lots of horrid shit is just a small step from what is possible
 
@samayo Grouping already was a huge fucking mistake
 
6:32 PM
^
 
Anonymous
Grouping?
 
yes. Not groping, but grouping
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa Why? I don't know if this was/is difficult to implement or has drawbacks behind the scenes, but it does look simple and useful at face value.
 
it's where you have more than one thing, so you bunch them up ... like pubes ... oh ... sorry ...
 
@JayIsTooCommon this
 
Anonymous
6:34 PM
@JoeWatkins just choked on my food
 
@samayo Broken workaround syntax, impossible to read, impossible to grep
 
lol
 
@samayo it's unreadable and it makes FQN resolution much more complex for tools too
 
@JoeWatkins i didn't try to compile the patch yet but i cannot compile the raw extension already
 
yeah I broke it, the patch should fix the compile possibly
 
6:35 PM
Checking for pthread.h ... <not found>
Checking for pthread.h ... <not found>
WARNING: pthreads not enabled; libraries and headers not found
ok
 
oh stick pthread-w32 stuff in lib and include
 
Anonymous
@Ocramius thx
 
I put them in deps normally
 
deps / include ?
 
yeah and deps/lib for the lib
in Prebuilt.2 folder there is dll, include, and lib
 
6:39 PM
not sure what to do :B
 
cp include/* deps/include
cp lib/arch/* deps/lib
is how I would do it on a proper operating system ...
 
Anonymous
hmm... I can't read C, but this does not look good.
 
you're not reading C, you're reading input for a parser generator which generates C ...
@Wes is there fire ?
 
Need suggestions on what to do about a large e2e test suite that is going to go green for the first time in 4 years: please advice.
 
make sure there are enough juniors around to lift you in the air and do a decent crowd surf ...
 
6:48 PM
Possibly a good plan
 
@JoeWatkins empty extinguisher hold on
 
Chester Bennington (Linkin Park lead singer) reported dead. Suicide :(
 
that sucks
 
@Ocramius party like it's 1999?
 
@Wes I gotta go afk for an hour, ping me when you know something, I'll be back ...
 
6:56 PM
k
@JoeWatkins
ext\_pthreads\php_pthreads.c(178): warning C4101: 'instance': unreferenced local variable
ext\_pthreads\php_pthreads.c(828): warning C4113: 'int (__cdecl *)()' differs in parameter lists from 'user_opcode_handler_t'
ext\_pthreads\php_pthreads.c(829): warning C4113: 'int (__cdecl *)()' differs in parameter lists from 'user_opcode_handler_t'
ext\_pthreads\classes/threaded.h(139): warning C4244: 'function': conversion from 'zend_long' to 'long', possible loss of data
ext\_pthreads\classes/socket.h(277): warning C4244: 'function': conversion from 'zend_long' to 'uint32_t', possible loss of data
 
@ircmaxell I'll make a party that lasts as much as an e2e test run
 
so 20 hours?
:-P
 
:D
 
@kelunik re-ping
oooh @ircmaxell got a minute for me to bounce something off you?
 
Anonymous
Gross
 
7:12 PM
I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?
 
@Dereleased Reminds me of this.
 
@DaveRandom re-pong
@ircmaxell Do you still have contact with Daniel?
 
@PeeHaa I hope the next time you stub your toe, you immediately stub the same toe on the other foot
 
\o/
 
7:15 PM
@kelunik so I realised that this thing has potentially a security issue, just not sure whether it's one that is a legitimate concern or not
 
I hope the next time you buy groceries, they're out of your favorite pasta sauce, and you're forced to buy a different kind, and when you eat it, you're just slightly disappointed.
 
@Dereleased I have the same feeling about <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWd6XgBVIcg">this song</a>.
 
I have a potential solution, just not sure whether I should bother implementing it
 
@Allenph So we're gonna pass ;)
 
@Dereleased <3
 
I kid. I'm wondering if you might be a good fit for our AZ team. We'll discuss this offline.
 
@Dereleased when does the music start?
 
@Dereleased That's fine. I'm pretty green. Not particularly worth moving me there.
 
:B
 
@Allenph So... wait, do you want to talk to them or not?
@WesStark w-hat
 
7:17 PM
This is more my style
 
@kelunik well that can be dealt with with non-blocking I/O, which I will implement myself once we've got the exe working OK
what I'm talking about is more subtle
 
@Dereleased I thought you were serious so I was gracefully taking the hit.
I'm definitely interested.
 
@DaveRandom We can't use non-blocking I/O for now, have to change the public API for that.
 
But, I'm not a senior engineer by any stretch of the imagination.
 
@DaveRandom Tell me.
 
7:18 PM
@DaveRandom Rick & Morty?
 
@Dereleased sounds like background music... with no real theme :B
 
@Allenph We have needs at many levels. And AZ might be a less cumbersome move for you than the further coast
 
@Dereleased That would be much nicer.
 
Ah. I'm into ambient music, like, really hard. This is actually pretty "active" or whatever !ambient is
 
@kelunik yup
@DaveRandom sure, what's up?
 
7:20 PM
@tereško already have, but good looking out!
 
@Dereleased Do you like trance?
 
@ircmaxell Could you ask him to respond to one of my messages? Tried Twitter and FB, he didn't respond. We need to want to change the DNS for amphp.org.
 
@Allenph Why yes I do
 
@Dereleased well, it's a FLAC version
 
7:20 PM
@tereško I only just noticed the title of the spreadsheet "The Dong Build" :p
 
Like Deadmau5?
 
:D
 
@tereško I have saved the link, I'll send it to myself =)
 
@tereško any good? Wondering if I should install that today :P
 
@Ocramius the game? No idea. I have seen some reviews and those are .. emm .. contradicting
 
7:21 PM
Because we are spawning a process but not actually communicating directly with it, rather indirectly via sockets, potentially a malicious party could connect back up and pretend to be the child process and steal data/inject malicious data /cc @ircmaxell (context is creating a wrapper for child proc stdio on windows because windows doesn't do non-blocking stdio)
 
Gotcha
 
(and, no, I dont mean "gaming press" reviews)
 
played the 2015 one IIRC - that was ok
 
@Allenph I'm going to say yes in General, although I haven't really sought out a lot of Joel's music. Oh my god I just realized his initials are J.Z. -- haha!
What I've heard of his I have liked, but it's not my usual style
I love Above & Beyond
 
@kelunik SMS sent
@DaveRandom how do you spawn said process?
 
7:22 PM
@ircmaxell Thanks.
 
@Ocramius this one is a lot smaller. If you really want my advice - put it in the wishlist and buy on XMas Sale
 
@Dereleased If you like Deadmau5, check out his UMF Miami 2016 set.
It was really good.
@Dereleased Oh. You're more into electro-house, or tropical-house.
 
@DaveRandom We use a random token the process has to provide, but I guess any process can read that. I think we could prevent that by passing the token via the environment?
 
So I was thinking that potentially we could inject a secret on the wrapper's stdin, use that to compute a hash of the secret + pipe ID and verify that in the handshake @kelunik @ircmaxell
 
@tereško I already have it
 
7:23 PM
questions are twofold: 1) is this a valid concern given that it will be hardcoded to only work on loopback
 
I just didn't play it... time <<<< money sadly
 
@DaveRandom yeah, I second @kelunik in using an evironment variable
 
@Dereleased Don't forget Pendulum
 
@Fabor BLOOD SUGAR
 
7:24 PM
@Ocramius in that case, install it and try on weekend
 
2) if it is a valid concern, what would be a good hashing algo to use that is both fast and collision resistant
 
What's "weekend"?
 
@Dereleased You like House/EDM?
 
@DaveRandom github.com/amphp/process/blob/windows-stdio/lib/… < That should just be passed with a env var.
 
Yep. I also like some old school guys like Oaky and ATB
AvB
 
7:25 PM
I would call this trance.
 
@ircmaxell this would also work, although it's a very slightly leaky API since the user can also pass env vars (but not in a meaningful way)
 
Really? Feels pretty minimal to me
There's only like 8 unique sounds in the song
 
@DaveRandom We can also pass it via a file if you want.
 
@DaveRandom honestly the hash step is overkill provided you invalidate the key on connection (meaning that you generate a unique key per connection and remove it from the valid list once the connection is established)
 
@Dereleased...that's why I would call it trance.
Maybe a sub-genre.
 
7:26 PM
@kelunik well can just send it to the wrapper's stdin, remember the actual child's stdin will be a socket anyway
 
@Dereleased There's some good basshouse here. Some is meh but a lot are decent.
 
@ircmaxell OK thanks, that pretty much answers the main question, the rest is mostly just mechanics. And MSDN. That's the worst part of this whole thing...
 
@Dereleased I'd still call that some variant of trance.
 
brb @DaveRandom
 
7:28 PM
Did you get to the vocalizations yet?
 
No.
That part is some kind of house, then.
You can mix them.
 
they're at 2:02
I don't understand your complicated world
I like what I like, and I base my genres based on when I had a di.fm subscription, which stations I preferred
 
It is kind of complicated. I'd call that minimalist enough to still be trance.
 
I mostly listen to trap and dubstep though, so.
 
7:29 PM
I consider Above & Beyond to be classic Trance. I believe they also consider themselves to be Trance.
 
Anonymous
@Dereleased I heard better farts
 
lol
 
@WesStark reply
@JayIsTooCommon lel
@JayIsTooCommon like this?
 
@kelunik just looking at amphp/process... how much of a pain would it be to have Process#start() return Promise? Or at least provide that API as a new method?
/cc @bwoebi @Trowski
 
7:41 PM
... for some reason I am getting flashbacks to Idiocracy :(
 
heh
 
Anonymous
@Dereleased nah, youtu.be/I4H8Fs8MxgE
 
@DaveRandom Why do you need that?
 
NMAKE : fatal error U1073: don't know how to make 'ext\pthreads\src\globals.c' @JoeWatkins no idea what's wrong i think i did the deps right
 
@Trowski Windows socket proxy thingy
That can be mitigated somewhat with a little select loop, but still it will block the whole process
 

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