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9:00 AM
^blackjack
hookahs ... I'm sure I don't know what else you mean ...
 
I am not a caterpillar though
 
and I am not a tiger
I don't know where this conversation is going
 
@Jeeves how 'bout just get rid of JSON_PRETTY_PRINT
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella just because you're not pretty.
 
Wes
@JoeWatkins is tab size 4 in php-src?
 
> 4. When indenting, use the tab character. A tab is expected to represent
four spaces. It is important to maintain consistency in indenture so
that definitions, comments, and control structures line up correctly.
 
SPACES FTW!!
 
Wes
@DaveRandom can you do css "tab-size:4;" on lxr? :P
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella i love that guy
 
9:11 AM
kitkats and doughnuts for breakfast
 
@Wes 8 is a fine size. \cc @DaveRandom
 
Wes
\
             \
                         \
         \
                 \
     \
            \
                             \
                   \
all php-src
 
I don't think css will fix that ...
 
Wes
it will
 
It won't
 
Wes
9:16 AM
tried adding tab-size:4 with chrome dev tools and worked
 
right, and there are other places where the trailing \'s are 8-aligned and then will be disaligned
 
@Gordon Spaces ftw.
There's dozens of us
 
Wes
@bwoebi it works for the most part.
 
@JoeWatkins "A tab is expected to represent four spaces." - That's some serious bullshit there.
 
hehe, yeah, wrong way round ...
 
Wes
i'm still trying to understand how zend_ns_fe works @JoeWatkins ahahaha
macroception
 
ZEND_NS_FE("namespace", function_name, arginfo)
!!lxr-ast ZEND_NS_FE
 
@JoeWatkins Nothing went wrong but I couldn't find a suitable definition
 
stupid elephpant ...
 
Wes
72 #define ZEND_RAW_FENTRY(zend_name, name, arg_info, flags) { zend_name, name, arg_info, (uint32_t) (sizeof(arg_info)/sizeof(struct _zend_internal_arg_info)-1), flags },
what's that
 
9:29 AM
WHY MUST YOU PEEK BEHIND THE CURTAIN ?
 
Wes
and why it ends with a , ?
@JoeWatkins peeking is required for learning
 
morning slobs
 
FE's end with , because they are used in zend_function_entry with , omitted ...
{
    PHP_ME(...)
    PHP_ME(...)
    PHP_FE_END
};
I'm not sure what you mean by "what's that" ...
 
Wes
i have no idea what { a, b, c }, means, e.g. {zend_name, name, ...... },
 
zend_function_entry[] = {
   {a, b, c},
   {a, b, c},
   NULL
};
 
Wes
9:32 AM
it's just a copy pasta basically
 
ThW
I prefer ZEND_NS_NAMED_FE :-)
 
@Wes or macro, yes ...
 
Wes
so it's not like PHP_FUNCTION(){ ... }
 
well yes, that's a macro too
it pastes zif_ infront of name and declares arguments ...
 
Wes
can i do RETURN_*() from a c function, right?
 
9:34 AM
you can do RETURN_* from any place with a zval *return_value
 
Wes
what's the difference @ThW ?
 
ZEND_NS_FE uses function_name as name and symbol name, NAMED_FE takes zend_name and name
 
ThW
it is a little more explicit
 
Wes
got it. let me try
 
Wes
9:44 AM
can't do @JoeWatkins i don't know how to write the signature of the c function
right now i'm using zend parse parameters, how do i do that in a c function?
the signature must match the arginfo? like, (zval object) and just that?
void foo(zv *object) {
RETURN_LONG(123);
}
ZEND_NS_FE("My\\NS", foo, foo_arg_info)
indeed doesn't work
ahhhhhhhh
 
@Wes you don't, you use PHP_FUNCTION, it declares with correct args
 
Wes
i can think.
yes. did it i think. compiling :P
 
@Wes should look like this:
PHP_FUNCTION(foo)
{
	zval *object;

	if (zend_parse_parameters(ZEND_NUM_ARGS(), "o", &object) != SUCCESS) {
		return;
	}

	RETURN_LONG(123);
}

ZEND_NS_FE("My\\NS", foo, foo_arg_info)
 
@PaulCrovella Now that's a fine trolling.
 
Wes
9:53 AM
shouldn't it be:
const zend_function_entry funcs[] = {
    ZEND_NS_FE(......)
    PHP_FE_END
};
you meant that, right?
 
@Wes what time is it for you?
 
Wes
12 am
 
o_O
it's about 5AM here, had to be work early for an upgrade
thought you lived in Italy
 
@Danack don't see quality like that often anymore
 
Wes
i'm not sure how you use am/pm @Tiffany
 
9:56 AM
noon = PM, midnight = AM
 
Wes
it's 11:59am
 
@Wes :D
 
@Wes yeah ... obviously that ...
 
Wes
:B
 
am/pm is a stupid system
 
Wes
9:57 AM
@JoeWatkins it wasn't so obvious for me joe :B
24 hour clock ftw
 
\o/
 
@PeeHaa coworker from serbia uses the 24 hour system. I always have to stare at his times for a moment.
 
we already discussed where FE's go ...
 
Anonymous
#brexit
 
@Tiffany :|
You people are weird
 
9:58 AM
@PeeHaa not my fault I grew up on AM/PM. At least I understand celsius.
 
Wes
@JoeWatkins you didn't forget we had that discussion, but you forgot i'm an imbecile
 
And USE celsius over fahrenheit
 
That's because it makes sense :P
 
@Tiffany I use 24 hour system, and always need to think what exactly is am/pm it is stupid
 
Wes
obviously that should go there, but i didn't realize it immediately :B
 
9:59 AM
for weather, I think fahrenheit is better, because one degree change in celsius is HUGE, one degree change in fahrenheit is meh. However for water temperature? celsius all the way.
 
celsius is good 0 - is freezing and above
 
@Wes i thought you metric people were all up on shit like decimal time
 
Tbf I don't even know wtf fahrenheit is based on
 
0F is cold as fuck too
 
@Wes I shouldn't have said obviously, I'm not in a great mood, sorry ...
 
10:00 AM
Either kelvin/celsius or GTFO
 
@Tiffany ohh, I'm used to celsius, 24 hour system and kmph :)
 
Wes
@JoeWatkins but you were right. i'm so confused by all this
 
@PaulCrovella The current time is 12 kilometers and 5 ounches
 
I'm only used to celsius in metric. I'm slowly to adapting because I grew up on imperial units.
and everyone else uses imperial units, so it's harder to adapt
anyway, it's officially time to work on this fucking upgrade
I'm done ruining the PHP conversation for now :x
 
Wes
it worked \o/ @JoeWatkins
 
10:09 AM
yay
 
I just replaced every LAN switch in the building with managed stackable sexy switches. On the plus side, It eliminated the problem that we were having (switching loop that no-one could find because we had ~20 unmanaged switches). On the minus side, I now have literally no idea how to configure these things because they are modern and powerful and really fucking complicated :-/
2
 
Where can I buy sexy switches? Does that also work on somebody like me?
 
@DaveRandom this is why I use token ring
 
Is that where you sit in a circle and get stoned?
 
puff puff pass
 
Anonymous
10:15 AM
@DaveRandom cisco?
 
!!? token ring
 
Search for "token ring" (https://www.google.com/search?q=token+ring&lr=lang_en)
• Token ring - Wikipedia - Token ring local area network (LAN) technology is a communications protocol for local area networks… (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token_ring)
• What is token ring? - Definition from WhatIs.com… - 7 jul. 2016 - A token ring network is a local area network (LAN) in which all computers are connect… (http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/Token-Ring)
• Afbeeldingen van token ring - No description available (/search?q=token+ring&lr=lang_en&tbs=lr:lang_1en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=
 
@JayIsTooCommon HP, I'm not a nihilist
 
Anonymous
ew
 
I have some cisco kit in the store room, I'm afraid to touch it
@Ekin lol, how old are you may I ask?
 
10:17 AM
@DaveRandom Just use bison it works better
 
bison?
 
Is that just a dutch thing?
You don't have these
 
I use HP for enterprise infrastructure gear, nothing but good experiences with it
 
Yes I see this is a proper indication that I am not old enough :P
That's a good feeling ...
 
@PeeHaa have you ever asked that and had it not been?
 
10:19 AM
@PeeHaa what is that, glue?
 
@DaveRandom tbf token ring was old by the time we learned about it /cc @Ekin
Yes I am trying to make us look less old here
@PaulCrovella Probably not?
:P
 
@Ekin I'm not really tbh, token rings went out when I was like 10, I only know about them because I am an uber nerd
 
I see
 
I still have that feeling we are the center of the world @PaulCrovella
 
#NetherlandsFirst
 
10:22 AM
orange ice lollies ...
lunch ...
 
lol
And that in the rain
 
I need my wife back ...
 
why? you seem to be adulting just fine
 
I'm all sticky, and feel weak
 
that's normal
 
10:26 AM
@JoeWatkins in isolation those two messages look... well, not good
 
Anonymous
i've had oats, whey protein and chicken up to now. I am miserable.
 
I'd have oats only in the form of cookies...
 
cold now too
 
@Ekin had me wondering about the chicken
 
yeah I started skipping words apparently, should go for lunch
 
10:34 AM
or you should invent chicken cookies
 
feels like I better not
 
these exist but they're not quite there
 
> Made with cooked chicken for natural flavor
I ... I don't know what that means
 
Wes
tomorrow php rfc day. i have two to finish. good time for 7.2 is running out i think
 
first alpha is june
 
Wes
10:41 AM
are changes after alpha allowed?
 
wonder if hash_hkdf will close by then
 
Wes
ahah
 
you should aim to get your changes done before first alpha
 
Wes
indeed. june is not too far away tho, someone will have to implement them, probably @bwoebi :B
 
@Wes talking about what?
 
Wes
10:45 AM
one is optional parens for immediately invoked functions, ie function(){}(), the other one is splat in array literals [...[1,2,3], ...$iter]
 
!!rfcs
 
There are no RFCs in voting. Sorry, but we can't have nice things.
 
@PaulCrovella yes
 
cheater
 
Wes
i feel sorry for the guy though. he wrote a massive page. you gotta respect the dedication
 
10:49 AM
no I fucking don't
 
Wes
ahahaha
@bwoebi unless you advice to not do them...
 
I think the parens might be necessary
 
@Wes I like the former… the latter … I'm not sure because semantics won't be what you expect in either case.
 
Wes
bob tried iirc, and there were no conflicts in the grammar lexer whatever thingy
 
what's the plan for dealing with accepted rfcs that never get an implementation? like wiki.php.net/rfc/apxs-loadmodule
 
10:53 AM
there's an awaiting implementation section on rfc index
 
right, but
> Target PHP Version: 5.4.1
 
nobody is likely to do the implementation other than the author ...
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins wiki.php.net/internals/release-managers could do with updating
 
at some point that should age off to "abandoned"
 
Wes
@bwoebi that's the problem. i have an idea though, people will vote it if it's reasonable. will update you tomorrow
 
10:56 AM
i should also take care of my negative index on arrays RFC soon..
 
Wes
@pmmaga link?
 
@PaulCrovella can you edit wiki ?
@JayIsTooCommon done
 
@JoeWatkins nope
 
Wes
by the way, i don't intend to put to vote another rfc i wrote because 1- i've decided i don't care 2- nobody cared 3- i lack knowledge
should i move it to abandoned or can i delete it?
 
10:58 AM
withdrawn
@PaulCrovella ok, so maybe I'll do that one weekend ... remind me maybe
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins see, i'm useful.
 
whats the best db structure to allow an admin to create custom db fields? I was thinking to have a custom_fields field on all tables that saves info in json, then a custom_fields table that saves the field details
or is there a better approach
 
@grasshopper Instead of JSON go for serialize thing.
 
Why serialize?
If it's just scalars then better use JSON
 
Wes
ew. serialize, json
@grasshopper just do a table with key value pairs and another table for the associations
 
11:09 AM
@Wes that would be the hardest thing to maintain
@grasshopper can't you just add json column in your table scheme?
 
ThW
@brzuchal but it is relational data, so storing it with actual relations is not a bad idea :-)
 
@brzuchal Why would it be hard to maintain?
It's just a join
 
Wes
you can do that with any db management thingy, imagine having to change the structure of the json instead... that is hard to maintain, imho
 
@PeeHaa yes it's additional sql query
 
No it's not
:P
Unless you mean longer query
 
ThW
11:11 AM
I would not use serialize() however, that is a php specific format for temporary data.
 
In which case yes and that is good
 
if I store for eg. orders in table and there would be additional column type json then wouldn't have to do any joins
 
ThW
json or xml are possible if supported by the DBMS
 
@brzuchal What's wrong with a join?
 
don't like them
:)
 
11:12 AM
@ThW there are relation dbms that do xml?
eeeew
@brzuchal That makes no sense
 
ThW
mysql can do xml (no namespaces) and json
 
Wes
@brzuchal how can you do anything without joins?
 
That's like saying you don't like interfaces in php or something silly like that
@ThW til
 
ThW
I think postgresql, too
 
Is mysql still badly bad with json?
 
11:13 AM
interfaces aren't silly, traits are
 
Wes
@ThW til too
 
Anonymous
@brzuchal not the best argument i've heard
 
@brzuchal yes, but I picked interface because they aren't silly just like joins
 
Wes
@PeeHaa it is good as it treats them as string :B
 
@Wes it actually supports it by now right?
 
ThW
11:14 AM
It is limited however, only makes sense for specific cases
 
it's not that I do not use join at all
 
Wes
@PeeHaa no. you can store json in a text column, like any other text :B
 
fwiw postgresql json support is actually pretty fucking good
@Wes wat
 
Are you sure about that?
 
Wes
11:15 AM
but there is no special handling for json, afaik
 
I don't like programming at all
3
 
Wes
yes @PeeHaa json is just text... unless i'm not getting what you mean
 
@ThW Didn't know it also did xml
 
Anonymous
@brzuchal right? it's pure poop.
 
@Wes It actually handles it as json
As in you can query it sanely
 
Wes
11:16 AM
... i didn't know that
never encountered not even by accident...
 
It's kinda newish I think
postgres has had it for a whiile now though
 
ThW
@PeeHaa json yes, the xml functions are quite old
 
Everytime I start programming I realize what piece of crap I'm doing and just start complaining about PHP and then the day is over :)
 
Wes
anyway i'm never going to need that
unless values in the json are indexed
 
oci_pconnect over tls problems – #74420
 
11:17 AM
@Wes If you want to store documents it's actually good
postgres that is
 
Wes
and since it's mysql, i'm pretty sure they aren't :B
 
mysql just poops al over it probably
 
Wes
that's the technical term, poop :D
 
:P
 
!!poop
 
11:18 AM
💩
 
tbh I never worked with json in mysql though so it may be actually good, but I doubt it for some reason
tbh2 I hate nor uderstand databases in general and think they are an necessary evil
 
They probably added it not because of the backend things
 
Programming is evil and the biggest evil is Larevil
 
@brzuchal ... ehh .. to be so young and naive again
 
Wes
@brzuchal you aren't the only talented programmer i know that hates databases. joins are easy... for sure easier than php internals...
 
11:23 AM
I don't know why I started learning PHP and not others
/me afk for a meeting
 
Wes
@brzuchal i've explained it earlier today
 
@Wes Why would you JOIN anything when you have Laravel
 
@PeeHaa that's why I store everything as tweets and let twitter work out the details
 
@PaulCrovella I create my backups as twitter posts
 
is that why all you do is retweet jeeves?
 
11:29 AM
:P
Twitter is dead. I need to make a better one still :P
hahahahhaha
@adrianbriggs @Mnrrnt It's ok, 1 tweet should cover the whole world anyway. That's how it works.
BOOM
 
Oct 29 '13 at 0:09, by webarto
Today I told my colleagues that I post passwords as private Facebook statuses so I can always access them.
:-D
 
:P
 
@DejanMarjanovic that doesn't work for your FB pw though. Facebook will automatically mask your FB password with ***** when you try to post it.
 
Same here in chat
If you use FB login that is
 
@Gordon I'm not old as you, but I'm old enough :-D
 
11:33 AM
*******************
see, it works
 
@PeeHaa it kinda really is: finance.yahoo.com/chart/…
 
@tereško It is
 
0xB16B00B5
works for me
 
@Gordon bash.org/?244321 //cc @DejanMarjanovic
 
@tereško Ah, yeah, origins :-)
 
11:34 AM
I'm old :(
 
At least you weren't there for the first "smiley"
 
Let's get @Danack in here so we can all feel less old
 
:P
 
ok, lunchtime over… now to install php 5.3
 
legacy project?
 
11:36 AM
shits/gigs?
 
bdsm?
 
production work
 
ugh
 
Wrong reflection on ReflectionFunction::invoke – #74421
 
11:37 AM
@PeeHaa cs.cmu.edu/~sef/Orig-Smiley.htm he was there I bet
 
lool
 
!!> echo 'shits' & 'gigs'
 
lol
that's awesome
 
ooh a word
most of the time it's just random letters
 
11:39 AM
!!> echo 'rock' & 'roll'
 
Do you listen to ro`h?
I don't, ro`h is the way of life
 
!!> echo 'Gor' & 'don'
 
rock | roll is rooo
 
11:41 AM
@Gordon I bet you have Suhosin too
 
indeed. that's why I am installing it
 
user1694691
Does anybody that was party to the discussion know why the union types rfc was rejected for 7.1? Was it primarily an implementation concern or was it rejected as a concept? wiki.php.net/rfc/union_types
 
user1694691
I saw some discussion, the only criticism I saw was something about "simplicity" and "replicating other languages".
 
user1694691
Is that pretty much why the vote went against it?
 
The best person to talk to would be @LeviMorrison who is probably not in front of a computer yet
 
11:44 AM
Levi is in a face-pillow correlation
 
Come back in about 3-4hrs @Marvin
Or @bwoebi but not seen him today, may be busy
 
user1694691
@DaveRandom Ok, thanks
 
Wes
@Marvin and because we can't have nice things
 
Also that ^
 
@Marvin I believe it came down to "fuck that, let's special-case everything we'd use it for instead" though my memory may be biased
 
user1694691
11:48 AM
Hmm, I guess it would be hopelessly optimistic/delusional to hope for it to be reconsidered in the not-to-distant future?
 
@DaveRandom I was there before^^ … just had lunch right now
 
Wes
@Marvin php 8 maybe
we need a lovely dictator like that guido python guy, that doesn't give a damn about what others think and just does what thinks it's best :B
 
@Marvin It was closed as a concept
 
@Marvin it'd take someone willing to suffer through trying to usher it through internals again at least
 
user1694691
Oh well, I guess I'll live with out it. Thanks guys.
 
Wes
11:52 AM
@Marvin the only union allowed right now is ?Foo
 
@Trowski I'm fine with removing it for now, we always can re-add it later in a minor version if we realize we miss it.
@Wes just nobody bothered yet to implement that
 
Wes
ok, i thought there was an actual reason to disallow that
 
@Trowski may you quickly prototype that interface? just to ensure I'm not talking about the wrong thing
 

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