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17:00
and to the one that does something with the money you understand the benefit of
For the breast cancer charity, approximately $90 would to to the executives
Yeah
For anyone wanting to read about finance from a 'developer-centric viewpoint', I thoroughly enjoyed "Soft Skills": manning.com/books/soft-skills "a wide range of important "soft" topics, from career and productivity to personal finance and investing, and even fitness and relationships, all from a developer-centric viewpoint."
yea, thta's a bad one.
So tax the shit out of executive salaries and bonuses
17:00
for RAINN, 94% of all donations go to victims
So that like $10 goes to them
That's a very good charity
tax the shit out of bonuses and the executives won't want them as much
user1596138
I see someone with absolutely no ambitions telling other people they shouldn't have ambitions.
@Meredith non-profit executives are typically tax-exempt
17:00
so more money will go to the people who need it
@ssube Good
@Meredith depends on the charity
@SterlingArcher which is just making the problem (executive overpay) worse
rainn.org/impact-your-gift-rainn now this is a good charity
I can agree that bonuses should be taxed heavier based on your tax bracket
user1596138
I got a 20 year old friend making $28/hour welding
17:02
@ndugger do you know who is coming?
I hate it, especially when my bonuses are taxed at 40% already
user1596138
Anyone can.
@SterlingArcher it's a similar concept to taxing everything over the first billion (or million) at a higher rate.
user1596138
For us I mean. Not third world countries lmao
and if you're taxing bonuses, you need to tax executive income, or they'll just shuffle money from one to the other
user1596138
17:02
Is the world really that bad...
user1596138
I mean seriously this is a first world problem.
@BadgerCat I probably will regardless, Jason is super close by, so he might stop in as well. Sean seemed interested, and Josiah did as well. I'm not sure about anyone else, though. You'd have to ask these people individually
user1596138
You can buy frivolous meaningless toys your entire life and hit the drive thru for food. And you're mad lol
Also understand that high executive pay isn't endemic to non-profits
Pretty much every company overpays their executives and underpays their other employees
Employees can change jobs for higher pay
17:04
A huge bonus for an executive could pay for the increased salaries of hundreds of employees
@Meredith especially low growth companies
user1596138
The gap isn't relevant.
user1596138
How much is running the cash register worth in terms of automation
user1596138
If workers don't want less than that. It will be automated.
Menial jobs like that should be automated
And people who would rely on them for income should be provided with basic income instead
17:05
You just killed how many peoples jobs by saying menial jobs should be automated?
user1596138
You're saying businesses should intentionally keep themselves as small as possible lol
we can't all be CEOs of automated companies
@Meredith I disagree with that
The whole point of automation is that we can have a smaller workforce and more leisure time in total
@Meredith I think at some point there will be no way around that
17:05
if your job can be automated, it should be, and you should learn skills to find a better job
user1596138
#VenusProject
Smaller workforce? That means less household income
Less jobs, less money
you shouldn't be compensated for being stupid
@SterlingArcher No it doesn't
17:06
It's literally the same amount of productivity
With fewer people working
@SterlingArcher I think it depends on the underlying system
that's how we ended up with middle america in the first place, popping pills in their trailer and being racist
Yes it does, how would the economy react if 50% of all jobs suddenly were automated?
basic income
But if we actually run out of jobs due to automation and don't provide a living to those that are left out, we have an uprising.
17:06
there's no incentive to improve yourself because we encourage shitty jobs
The productivity would be the same
there's always work to be done... always a job to fill, even after these easier jobs are automated
And 50% of workers would not have to work
user1596138
I'm on board with universal income so that the people with no ambitions can simply exist meaninglessly and give me that universal income in exchange for products and services.
with the way the system is right now, of course this will not end good
17:06
How would they buy food? Pay rent?
that's basically why people start arguing about basic income
@rlemon And that would be great for everyone involved
@Luggage but if we encourage the people who are choosing to be left behind, they elect the most interesting folks
Not having to work doesn't mean they have stacks of cash in the bank to retire on
Jordan the same number of goods and services would be produced
17:07
it means they're unemployed
Literally nothing changes
@SterlingArcher basic/universal income. everyone gets X amount regardless
iirc some countries are trying it already
user1596138
Everyone gets X. They can work for more if they have the ambition to
17:07
^
@rlemon discussing it mostly
I don't see that working in america ever
I think they are doing tests but not actually giving everyone universal income, only small groups
That's like wellfare to an extent
I thought I read about somewhere sampling it
user1596138
17:08
You'll still have rich people who elected to spend their time getting there.
@Jhawins did you just advocate universal basic income?
maybe I was mistaken
And wellfare is so abused
@SterlingArcher because it's too big and diverse. Different states need different things. It would only work on the state level, but then interacting with other states bcomes challenging.
the US is just too big
@SterlingArcher we will see how the economy and workplace will develop in the next 15 years
17:08
@SterlingArcher you can't abuse it when everyone gets X
Even if I had universal income I wouldn't not work, and I don't think I'm alone there
user1596138
@Luggage absolutely. Eventually. No where near in my life
we need to evolve beyond money like in star trek
But where is all that money coming from?
And don't say rich people
the automated workforce.
your spending power
17:09
well, i hope automation goes fast enough that it DOES happen in our lifetimes, but we'll have a hard time adapting
just like it is now.
Jordan you need to separate the concepts of money and production
They're not the same thing
Why are you using my real name
yeah, adapting will be a pain, but I think it's inevitable
The only time people do that is to be condescending
17:09
Should I call you Duchess
Once only 1 out of 10 people NEEDS to work any more because of vast automation, and everyone could live awesome lives off of that output, you have to come up with a new idea other than "everyone works for a pay check".
user1596138
@Alesana you just wouldn't have much. You'd have the same standard house everyone gets and public transport. If that's all you want then don't work I am totally on board with that.
user1596138
It leaves more room for the people that actually want more to get it.
in related news I made a sword
(it's wood)
17:10
@Jhawins I think you misread my message
@Jhawins I had a double negative in there, meaning I would still work.
@SterlingArcher just think about trucking. It will be automated, and it will be pretty soon
has it slain america yet?
@Luggage That idea of automation removing jobs is bogus. It only replaces jobs that people no longer want to do with new jobs.
So basically, I was trying to say exactly what you just said haha
@GNi33 so what happens to the truckers?
17:11
@SterlingArcher they get a different job.
or retire
For now, those people might find a new occupation, but automation will strike more and more sectors
and more and more jobs will become available
what happened to all of the call switch girls?
user1596138
@Alesana Oh yea I totally misread it
they moved on and new jobs opened up
17:11
I wish they would automate happiness
3
expert level jobs will go up, but a lot more will become obsolete at some point
you'll need people to maintain and oversee these automated trucks.
@ndugger dang
@KendallFrey so far, yes. But there is a predicted automation / intelligent explosion. There is no ice to measure here to get anything other than a wild prediction, though, I'll grant you
and society needs a plan for that
user1596138
17:12
Universal income is pro-business
@rlemon in concept that's true, but how many truckers have the skillset to work on automated robotics essentially?
user1596138
It's funny that the people that advocate it are usually anti-big business
people to improve them. people to build them. oh, wait, those jobs already exist.
Just "look for another job" will not be a possible solution for this some point down the road
user1596138
But what it is is giving businesses the opportunity to thrive and removing that from individual workers
17:12
@SterlingArcher this has literally happened in like a hundred other industries in the past 500 years dude.
@Luggage Even then, it seems to me that once nobody has to work anymore, they'll find new things they want and ways to get them.
user1596138
The cash flow looks like this
we get by
and we do better.
user1596138
> Country -> Citizen -> business -> country (tax)
I guess that's true
We're gone out of the bounds of my knowledge
user1596138
17:13
The citizen is a vehicle for moving currency. That's all.
Automation, in my humble mind, should be there to do the work for the people
tl;dr I don't support raising the minimum wage
right, maybe they won't NEED to work for someone else. 1 single government issued 3d printer and a minecraft pickaxe will be all they need to build an empire
@SterlingArcher Yeah, remember trucking has only been around for a century or two
so that we don't have to work anymore
there is no system that would provide this at the point of course
17:13
@KendallFrey the horse and buggy people were pissed about that
so we need to think about that
healthcare.
programmers
janitorial work
words.
user1596138
@rlemon lol a lot of them were pissed enough to boycott lightbulbs as well
@GNi33 In America today, I estimate less than 10% of people would have to work to sustain everyone.
17:14
You think back in the day my great ancestor asked @rlemon's great ancestor "in concept that's true, but how many horse riders have the skillset to work on giant machine carts essentially?
user1596138
Amish have self-sufficient communities. Do they work?
Just because you don't have to work doesn't mean you won't.
user1596138
Yes, they work their ass off sun up to sundown lol
@SterlingArcher no, because yours were shooting mine while we made fucking wooden bird sculptures
I'm starting an Amish 2.0. You have to lock into today's tech for the rest of your life.
17:15
@KendallFrey yes?
user1596138
Right lmao
@rlemon WAY TO MAKE IT AWKWARD FAM
user1596138
They do a lot more now for business purposes. They'll use power tools and let giant white women drive them around
but at some point there will simply won't be enough jobs anymore?
17:15
Plus my family hails from colombia, so suck it
@GNi33 Ideally
That's the end goal, right?
I didn't know there were jews in Colombia
@Meredith I think it should be, yes
me either
17:16
@ndugger there were, but they left to America
how? I have no freaking clue
follow along
@GNi33 I think there will need to be more than just automation to get there. Something like a completely new form of civilization
I'm like... 18% hispanic
and I didn't know that until college
so your ancestors murdered a different indigenous people. big woop. :)
17:16
@KendallFrey absolutely
ok
user1596138
Globalization is the only way to accomplish all this shit.
@Dilip Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room rules. Pleasedon't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
user1596138
How do you get globalization? You get people with POWER and MONEY to change the world.
user1596138
Or you become those people.
17:16
globalization is so underrated
@Jhawins You're so brainwashed dude
@Jhawins It's the only way to accomplish this on a global scale, but socialism doesn't work large-scale. It's a vicious cycle.
It doesnt matter if the money all comes from one person or many
how about a balance of self-sufficiency and global trade?
All that matters is that the wealth is allocated as necessary
user1596138
17:17
@Meredith I don't think anyone else holds that opinion based on what I said.
user1596138
Sound off if ya do
Sure it's easier to coordinate if only a few people control the wealth
@Meredith if you can't disagree constructively then dont
@KendallFrey right? you need it for future tech, which is pretty much an end game.
Don't call things retarded, don't call people brainwashed because their ideas differ from yours
user1596138
17:17
Guess that's a unique opinion @Meredith
@rlemon >:(
@Jhawins you're a bit hard-line on the money = right argument, since you called out for challengers.
you totally wanna play Civ V now don't you
I do
user1596138
I'm not attacking your views btw
17:18
>>:(
user1596138
This is literally my world view
globalization means star trek, and star trek is a good distraction from my depression
user1596138
I'd like to become the one with the power so I can make the decisions to sway us down the right path.
If I'm using WebPack it's safe to delete my outputs folder because webpack will just create it again, right?
user1596138
No matter what I do I won't live to see the benefits.
17:18
I'm only in the Renaissance Era yet
Marathon games ftw
Wrong usage of the word "yet" -- must be a redneck from Ohio
Alesana assuming you don't improperly have any non-webpacked code in there, yes.
user1596138
This is why I'm a programmer
I forget what I'm doing if the game takes more than 2-3 days
alright, I'm heading home to play Civ now, thanks a lot Rob
17:19
I like playing as polynesia
@Luggage Okay thanks
I'm playing as Morocco
I wanted something I'd never tried
It's really op if you can get battleships before someone destroys you
I'm sealand.
am I uncool to play as Austria? Buying all the city states?
17:20
I love Austria
rush to icmb's, take the world by force.
Buying city states is a bad idea
icbm*
Why does everyone rush tech and kill everyone
They're better used for diplomatic purposes
17:20
On another topic, what sort of questions do you guys recommend asking for an interview?
domination is the only end game I care about
user1596138
@rlemon Inter-continental mallistic bissle
I rush tech and fly to Alpha Centauri
@SterlingArcher "Are you good at coding"
How specific should I get about their technology? Should I ask about office work-life balance?
@SterlingArcher "Do you plan to have children in the next 2 years?"
17:21
@KendallFrey for realzies, I'm super nervous
@SterlingArcher ask how dank their meme game is
user1596138
@SterlingArcher Are you going for that place you linked a bit ago
@SterlingArcher I don't plan when I go into interviews. It makes it more organic, which people like anyways. Interviews tend to be about you as a person just as much as your technical aptitude
guys im nervous af D:
@SterlingArcher don't be, you got it fam
just be you
17:21
interviews are a wank in the park, fam
@Jhawins yup, my brother got me in for tomorrow
"We are pretty serious about using the freshest memes here trolololol"
@SterlingArcher you'll be fine, man
and make sure your eye brows are well groomed
I'm a really good personality, so I can wing interviews very well, but statistics show that winging an interview isn't the best idea
17:22
Would extracting comments from a webpack bundle make a significant difference in performance? It is an option with the uglifyjs-webpack-plugin
when are they not?
lol screw you
user1596138
@SterlingArcher Once you tell them you are Sterling Archer I don't think you will have an issue.
and intentionally drop some goldfish just to show you're in control
@Alesana size, yes, performance, no
17:22
@Luggage that's what they keep telling me :(
@SterlingArcher I've never had a bad interview that was because of me, and I only wing mine. Your studies are bad.
user1596138
I've never really planned an interview
The best I have right now is relating my skillset and what I do at SNC to what they do
user1596138
It hadn't occurred to me that people do. I mean I have no idea what they're going to ask me
Hmm I wonder if any JS files I have require that the license be included in the file
17:23
> How much skin can I show on an average tuesday?
I've never interviewed for a job in my life. Not properly anyway
the only thing I plan is researching the company a bit
so I don't look like a dolt
My suit came back from the tailors, and it fits so well
I look sharp af
user1596138
I interviewed with Runnable with SOmeKittens and forgot how to speak
user1596138
It was... Depressing..
17:23
I'm not wearing a tie though, apparently these guys are jeans/t-shirts type
@SterlingArcher how much tuesday can I show on my skin? :rolls up sleeve to reveal tattoo of the word "tuesday":
so a tie will most def be overdressed
@ndugger dank
fuck that's meta
user1596138
I'm just planning to follow @Loktar around with jobs for the rest of his life. As long as he's still my lead <3ro
17:24
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
@SterlingArcher no, [meta.stackoverflow.com](this) is
user1596138
> Do you also have a position open for this guy that job hops behind me
@ndugger I was certain you were gonna show us your underwear
fuck it, I'm not fixing it
@Zirak I certainly can, if you're into it
17:25
you can live with my mistake
California has called me 3x today and I just want to answer "Hello you've reached Virginia"
> J's chicken you kill em I grill em?
but who will tell their families?
@rlemon twss
twhs maybe
17:26
@ndugger the intern
@SterlingArcher sounds like my current place. I'm glad I wore a button-down (sans tie) to the interview, though, because both people interviewing me did as well.
and even if they wear tshirts, having buttons for your interview is usually a good thing
function foo() {
    console.log(this, this.a);
}

var a = 10;

foo();
var hoisted a into window right?
17:30
var a = 10;
window.a; // 10
@SterlingArcher pretty easy to test man
user1596138
You had facebook like 2 days ago
@rlemon sorry, I was confirming that hoisting is the proper word
user1596138
i.sstatic.net/380nj.jpg Home Alone Kid now giving JS talks
user1596138
This was in our Messenger chat lmfao
@SterlingArcher window is just the global scope
17:33
@SterlingArcher "Hoisting" isn't the correct word per se; var in global scope creates a binding on the global object
@SterlingArcher read this: stackoverflow.com/a/4862268/829835
let and const on the other hand do not
@Jhawins I deactivated my account this morning
let foo = 4;
window.foo; // undefined
I feel like testing an interviewee on javascript gotchas is kinda a bad idea though
17:35
you want to hire people who don't know how the language actually works?
Do you think var will be deprecated in future releases or does it still have uses?
seems like a bad idea
I know most modules need to be global
Yeah tbh
but import/export
17:35
@SterlingArcher neither.
@SterlingArcher no uses, but would break the internet
especially if you're trying to trick something with "var" when nobody should even be using var anymore.
I'd totally be cool with someone failing that question
@rlemon like Kim K's "break the internet nude" (which broke nothing but her scale)?
@SterlingArcher No. It can't be deprecated under strict mode since that'll break the internet, so unless a 3rd mode appears, it's here to stay
17:36
"use strict, seriously"
"use stricter"
"use es2018"
What if JS was able to determine scope at runtime?
"use php"
17:37
For example, V8 sees that nothing else re-assigns to foo, so it makes foo a const by interpretation
<script type="es2018">
@SterlingArcher it already does that
doesn't help much, though
@SterlingArcher And then what?
17:37
@SterlingArcher giving us the ability to tell it ahead of time means one less job for it to do
Also, there was the beginning of a proposal for a "stricter" mode, "use strong"
It didn't gain much traction though
"use bigly"
"use heroin"
"use memes"
@SterlingArcher installing jQuery.....
17:38
Javascript isn't even a programming language
that depends on how you define "even"
Even isn't even a word
How can you define it
Anyways, wouldn't being able to assign declaration types on the fly mean that deprecating var is possible?
quit the meth
How Can Words Be Real If Mouths Aren't?
17:39
The engine can just re-assign var to let or const
Viola, no more broken internet
I just don't care about breaking old sites
@SterlingArcher Think about that for a second
but let and const have slightly differnt behavior
var has different scoping rules
17:39
You know I don't think about much
Maybe you should hire developers, neopets
If var and let behaved exactly the same, why would there be two?
Right, and devs are idiots
If they don't behave the same, then assigning one to the other breaks something
17:40
got it, nevermind me
> viola
jordan, I thought we were past this
wahla
Thinks like hoisting and, you know, function scope vs. block scope
My most uncomfortable moments in JS are often writing let myVar;
360 no scope
17:40
!!wallah
@KendallFrey That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
ha, suck it
@Zirak yeah that makes a lot more sense
!!learn wallah <>http://i.imgur.com/F8TqHA7.png
!!learn wallah <>http://i.imgur.com/F8TqHA7.png
17:41
@rlemon Command wallah learned
@KendallFrey Command wallah learned
double suck it
So basically it's so ingrained that it's here to stay
let myPeople = "go";
#TeamCanada
whalhah
user1596138
17:41
!!learn wallah help
@Jhawins Command wallah learned
triple suck it
user1596138
You can just keep learning over and over lol?
no there is a grace period
@KendallFrey Command wallah learned
17:42
@SterlingArcher If strict mode was specced during let specifications, it would've been possible to dispose of var
you just over wrote ours.
not anymore
user1596138
!!learn wallah wallah
@Jhawins Command wallah learned
user1596138
!!wallah
17:42
@Jhawins wallah
user1596138
Oh
durp
@rlemon Command wallah learned
@KendallFrey Command wallah learned
user1596138
I thought it executed the command
17:42
lol
user1596138
Sorry lol
!!wallah
user1596138
How do you have it run a command from a command
that's awesome
17:42
you can't
@Zirak so it's not really possible to determine with 100% accuracy a variables scope to a degree that it could make a change and not break it then?
like, certain ones you can... but not all of them
user1596138
Oh only !!tell can recognize chains?
@SterlingArcher I don't quite understand that question
not chains
it's specifically designed to execute a single command
17:43
if (false) {
    var foo = 4;
}
console.log(foo); // undefined
// How do you "get rid" of that?
!!learn htmlhelp <>http://www.neopets.com/help/html1.phtml
@Meredith Command htmlhelp learned
If the big issue with deprecrating var is the hoisting and the scope, that means the issue lays in not being able to determine what scope it lives in?
!!htmlhelp
17:44
> Wallah (Arabic: وَٱللّٰه‎‎, i.e. by God) is an Arabic expression meaning "I swear by God" used to make a promise or express great credibility on an expression. It is considered a sin among Muslims to use this phrase and follow it up with a lie.
!!viola
@KendallFrey That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
gone too :(
Shit you're right
@SterlingArcher That's not the big issue. The big issue is that you can't remove var since that breaks every use of var
That's all
17:44
You could have let foo; and var foo; at the sample place and they have slightly different scopes, so you need both.
@SterlingArcher you can prove that some set of code doesn't mutate the variable and assess access within that, but you can't prove no other code is touching it, because var.
@KendallFrey SORRY!
with was removed in strict mode, but you can use var in strict mode so that's not possible any more
So the answer potentially lies in a future stricter mode, or we're just gonna deal with it like marquee tags
17:45
!!learn viola <>https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/17?m=32565578#32565578
@KendallFrey Command viola learned
what they could (and probably should) do is add an equivalent of "use sane"; that prevents anything wasm can't handle
but that will break essentially everything
and put most jQuery devs out of a job
thank god
fortunately they'll have universal basic income
leaves room
jQuery, the code equivalent of middle america
17:47
s/income/htm for java/
` `
damn.
``
` `
chat pls
17:48
👾
@ssube So function declarations and arithmetic
Who needs more than that
💩
👇
🌽
!!afk mojis
user2620028
17:50
hey guys, is it possible to stop execution of the html attribute onload of the body tag?
.
??
ohh body tag
over write it is still my best bet.
user2620028
:( thats the only thing i could come up with too
@HatterisMad Man you must be in some deep shit
user2620028
@Zirak yep
user2620028
my code is executing in a different order on ff and chrome
user2620028
17:53
in chrome it is calling the onload of the body tag before my code
user2620028
in ff it is calling it after
user2620028
my code sets up some base variables for the page, the onload of the body also does the samething, setting them all to null
window.addEventListener('load', function(e) {
      e.stopImmediatePropagation();
}, true);
but that'll probably fuck with all load events
blocks body onload tho
user2620028
yeah so overwriting the body tag before the page completes then lol
I didn't know body had a load event
user2620028
17:54
lucky you :/
@Zirak nobody, that and a data segment is all your program ends up as.
user2620028
@rlemon uhhhh lemon wtf does that even do
user2620028
no.... i mean like what is it actually doing as opposed to what it says it is doing :(
user2620028
17:59
because the script loaded in my body is still executing
I'm more worried about why the jsbin link says "no buggy, no joe"
user2620028
but now it is executing in the order matching chrome
or maybe no bugle

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