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12:00 AM
but yeah screw class-based type checking
 
I agree with all the above. Checking inputs is sometimes beneficial, for various reasons. How much to do can depend on if you are writing it just for that one project, or do you want it to be something you potentially resuse on multiple projects (where you may not remember the exact requirements) Also, different functionality may be desired depending on the type passed (e.g. you might want to be able to pass an array of a type, or just a single value of that type).
 
user4639281
Well yeah, but I mean, if I tell you what the function expects, do I care if you want to pass something else and it fails because that input doesn't work? Does checking the type actually help optimization?
 
user4639281
So long as I'm explicit about what the function expects, why should I care what you do with the function after that?
 
user4639281
I'm just wondering because Google is big on type checking and stuff like that.
 
Checking inputs can allow you to fail in predicable ways, instead of in potentially different ways depending on the input provided to the function. It can also help mitigate errors which might be propagating from some other portion of the code.
 
user4639281
12:09 AM
I guess it really depends on whether you want to have control over how your function fails.
 
user4639281
Which realistically is not my problem, because the person using the function can take care of that.
 
Yes, which is quite important for a public API. It's not that important for a function which you are only using within your own code, where you control all possible uses. OTOH, I've used it for debugging purposes, where the use is within my own code, but what is passed depends on content which is not in my control.
 
user4639281
@Makyen What is quite important for a public API? having control over how your function fails, or the person using the function taking care of it?
 
If I have to take care of it you add to my cognitive load
 
user4639281
But in doing so, I reduce my cognitive load.
 
12:25 AM
Yes but that's one load versus the load of all your users
 
user4639281
Take for example the merge function I mentioned earlier. I could check to see that the objs variable is an array (or array like object), that each element in that is an object, and that resolve is a function, but why should I?
 
@TinyGiant Having your API perform in a predicable manner. Parameter checking is primarily used at interface boundaries (e.g. just inside API calls to verify that what is being passed is sane).
 
@TinyGiant ^
 
user4639281
I mean, the whole idea of that function is to offload the conflict resolution onto the caller, because no matter how I assume the conflict should be resolved, someone is going to disagree.
 
user4639281
No matter how I limit the inputs, there is going to be someone who has another use-case that would be possible without those limitations
 
12:36 AM
In general, something like that is usually written either with no default conflict resolution, and the caller *must* provide a callback, or with a default where the caller *can* provide an alternate conflict resolution function.
For a general purpose function, you should test the inputs for the capabilities which you *require* in order to function in the manner which is expected (i.e. live up to the implicit interface contract). If the inputs don't meet the minimum you need in order to function, then you should fail in a predicable manner (e.g. return `null`, `throw` a specific error), etc.
 
1:20 AM
@Enzokie While that question is asking for a formula, "formulas" are how programming is done in Excel. That question does not read to me as asking for a math formula wrt. how to determine the average, but rather how to create an Excel formula (potentially, multiple formulas) that account(s) for the differences in the data that the OP generally describes. OTOH, the question is "Too Broad" in that it does not provide enough information to be able to begin writing such a formula.
 
 
 
2 hours later…
user4639281
3:51 AM
3 messages moved to SOCVR Sanitarium - Please only post delete requests for posts that are eligible for deletion
 
@TinyGiant Didn't know that was a rule, but okay.
It's odd to see a user with a dozen answers and over 500 questions, many of them poorly-received. You'd think they'd be Q-banned by now, but no.
Several questions per day... I wonder if they do any programming themselves, lol.
 
user4639281
Lets keep it to the content please
 
Okeydoke.
 
4:50 AM
unclear
 
@rene it seems like the user who posted on the burnination meta FAQ is now satisfied.
 
user4639281
@TylerH I agree
 
user4639281
@FireAlarm unclear
 
user4639281
5:07 AM
It will also remove that one, so it doesn't matter either way
 
@TinyGiant oh, thanks, good to know! (Didn't see yours until I returned from the question though)
 
user4639281
all good
 
@TinyGiant waiting for being able to delv-pls that question but other than that, yeah, brilliant, thanks (-:
 
5:44 AM
@TylerH I followed the comments, thanks for explaining all that. Much appreciated.
 
6:13 AM
What to do when a user has multiple questions with tags in the title, where each individual question has a bad title, in that editing the title to remove the tags leaves an unclear question?(not to say it was clear in the first place, but now it's worse)
 
6:52 AM
@TinyGiant now it got an (unclear!) answer, too
 
7:19 AM
@Tushar Closed now. I always wonder how 4K+ users think you can ask such questions here...
 
@TinyGiant Depends
Both strings and arrays implements [[Iterator]], which means that they can both be iterated with for..of
But strings don't implement all the interfaces of an array, so depends on what you're trying to do, it might fail.
 
@Makyen thats a good point, thanks. I will remember that.
 
Morning
 
7:35 AM
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
8:52 AM
Hello,I ask the following question http://stackoverflow.com/q/43182452/418343 , and i was so specific by clarifying my requirement ,but it was closed yesterday ! :(
I don't know what i can do to reopen it , it needs 5 votes !
 
Plop!
2
@AnynameDonotcare Checking...
 
@AnynameDonotcare Not a bad question, though I find it way too broad. Just check it, you ask about six bullet points that make it way too broad for me, therefore I recommend you narrow it down/split them into focused questions. May even link them together
 
@kayess Nope
 
@Kyll yep
Some out of the six is POB that's right
So we tend to agree to disagreement!
 
@AnynameDonotcare This question is off-topic as it is a tool request, which is prohibited as per the help center
 
8:57 AM
@kayess : I didn't ask about six points , i just illustrate my question in six points
 
@Kyll that's only true to the last three bullet points, editing those out makes the question non-toolrec-ish
 
@Kyll : hmmm , i don't want a tool , just i want the experience of people who did auditing through ORM , so i list my effort ,and my needs
 
Ah, I misread then. Reading again.
 
@kayess @Kyll Could you help me in editing it to be more clearer
I try to do my best to clarify its details, searching on SOF and found poor or expired contents concerning my question
 
As I have written. I don't really see a way to edit it into shape since you ask for too many things at once. Blow it up to at least 3 parts and ask them separately. And show us the results so maybe we can be of help.
 
9:05 AM
I'd agree with kayess yeah
 
the world will start collapsing now: agreement at SOCVRland!
 
@kayess @Kyll hmmm , okay i will try to remove some broad meanings :(
 
@AnynameDonotcare if those makes sense don't just remove them, but ask those in another questions. So you can link them together like Q1 -> Q2 -> Q3 so these could become cohesive in the end without getting closed as too broad or so
 
9:19 AM
I edit my question , stackoverflow.com/q/43182452/418343 , Hope i did well
 
@AnynameDonotcare are you asking for a recommendation for a database auditing tool?
 
@AnynameDonotcare I have gone through your question A) don't use code formatting for regular text or keywords. B) your question is a tool recommendation, which is off-topic.
And why the endless links to wikipedia? Why do you expect experts on the topic don't know what EF is?
 
@PatrickHofman Thanks a lot for editing , i don't asking about any tools , i ask about how to do auditing and versioning through ORM with specific points , and for wiki links , i'm sorry but i thought it will be a good thing in any question to reference as you can
@PatrickHofman feel bad to downvote my question :(
 
@AnynameDonotcare Your own results are three products. No documentation, design, etc. You are looking for a tool to fix your problem. At least, that is what the question says.
@AnynameDonotcare What do you mean?
 
@PatrickHofman : i don't mean that in my question , i try to put my effort , and the results i get , because i know that request recommendations for tools is off-topic.
 
9:34 AM
@AnynameDonotcare I'm sorry but to me your question looks like a set of requirements rather than a specific programming question. Would it not be a better fit for softwarerecs.stackexchange.com ?
 
9:48 AM
@AnynameDonotcare If you don't mean it, you shouldn't write it. The problem is: your question will either be a tool recommendation request or too broad for Stack Overflow. I agree with @DavidRawson that your question could fit SR.SE.
 
Stahp with the flagging...
 
Hiya
 
hola @BhargavRao
 
hello guys. stackoverflow.com/review/triage/15735028 how would you mark this question if on triage?
I'd mark is unsalvageable, but which flag?
as unsalvageable*
 
9:54 AM
unsalvageable --> should be closed --> off topic --> no mcve
 
no mcve?
 
yeah
 
and that is the acronym of?
 
> Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't this code working?") must include the desired behavior, a specific problem or error and the shortest code necessary to reproduce it in the question itself. Questions without a clear problem statement are not useful to other readers. See: How to create a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example.
 
^ "MCVE" stands for "Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example"
 
9:56 AM
actually that post has many issues
 
oh.
you skipped the off topic point! XD
 
look again! ;)
 
@BhargavRao MOD POWER ABUSE!!!
 
there's off topic before MVCE
XD
 
wafflez
 
9:58 AM
ah you don't like previews?
 
@GiamPy you mean oneboxes (like the above one)?
 
Nope, they are a bit problematic in the transcripts
 
got it
question: let's say that a very old question (3 years ago) gets answered properly, but the question owner is inactive or does not frequent SO anymore. Is that actually a waste of time because points will never be given to you, since the asker will now accept your answer? or there's a way around this?
 
@GiamPy Future readers will see the good answer and upvote it, if the question attracts any kind of attention.
 
how likely is such a thing though @Kyll?
 
10:10 AM
Depends on the question itself...
 
the question's view count combined with its upvotes are a good estimate of the likelihood of the question being useful
 
is there a similar filter? XD high views, zero answers?
 
there's a filter in the "Questions" tab, or you can use a query on data.stackexchange
 
10:43 AM
Is copy pasting an answer without quote block from another Q and adding "Reference: [link to other post]" sufficiently attributed?
 
seems so
 
that's a shame
 
Agreed
 
free upvotes for copying someone else's post, nothing to do about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Yeah, a hollow victory if you can call it that...
 
11:04 AM
Is this Q too broad, or no MCVE?
 
@Adriaan No MCVE IMO
 
@AshishAhuja went with that already. Thanks for the info
 
np :)
afk for few hrs
 
11:28 AM
wrong comment sorry
@TimCastelijns This should be a comment, not an answer. If it is a duplicate question then vote to close as such and/or leave a comment once you earn enough reputation. If the question is not a duplicate then tailor the answer to this specific question.
That one ^^, you can flag it as VLQ or moderator for deletion.
 
Morning
 
o/
 
user3956566
\o
 
Morning :D
 
morning
 
11:34 AM
WTF
 
user3956566
?
 
user3956566
Wt who?
 
See the last message from Adriaan
 
@NathanOliver going to be one boring Olympics; worse than the world championship I guess
 
12:01 PM
@Adriaan Yeah. I love the the NHL players play because it makes the game more interesting.
 
@NathanOliver I'm unsure about "more interesting", I think the Swedish competition to be quite interesting as well. The thing is, in my opinion, that the best players of each nation should participate in the Olympics, and those play in the NHL mainly (all of US, Canada, Sweden teams plays there, and >90% of Russian and Finnish teams). So you'd basically have a B-team tournament, as with soccer on the Olympics
 
12:15 PM
@SmokeDetector that's an easy NAA, the OP already states so in the text
 
user3956566
12:39 PM
 
user3956566
@Machavity you don't need a close reason with the - the tag alone is explanation enough
 
@YvetteColomb Hindsight (pun intended)
 
user3956566
@Nkosi hahahaha good one! I can't believe I actually made an entertaining, yet informative post!
 
user3956566
Distracted horse - asking for lift away from owner!
 
1:02 PM
Hi all
 
\o
 
@M.A.R. Yeah I'm done. This is probably 40th comment to them -.-
 
@AndrewLi \o
 
o/
 
@YvetteColomb lol nice! I hope that @Kyll is a CM on pets.SE
 
1:12 PM
Bangs head on wall repeatedly
 
@kayess He's secretly the Community user. Don't tell anyone
 
@YvetteColomb Nice, interesting read and reminder of the power of a horse!
 
@SmokeDetector Q should be closed and deleted, it's a tool rec
 
1:39 PM
morning!
 
Morning, gunr!
 
@gunr2171 morning Kevin
 
aye! What up with our @KevinGuan ?
 
he's been gone for a while
 
hence I ask about him
 
1:43 PM
yeah people fall in and out of the room. For some reason Tuna isn't pingable anymore :(
but all is not lost, at least bluefeet is still lurking in the backround
 
@gunr2171 I loved their poem on cold feet :D
too bad the history of that meta post has been scrubbed
 
yeah, that was quite the placeholder
 
waffle... now I understand
 
waffles are waffles
 
did not see the vandalism... the bot was just pinging me...
 
1:50 PM
I'm not really sure how to VTC this very basic question. What do you think about it? stackoverflow.com/questions/43208122/…
 
@Mistalis I'm confused what the question is (not the problem, the question)
 
Somerhing like "How to have decimal numbers in Java?"
 
Use float/double instead of int. — Mistalis 50 mins ago
honestly, that is the answer
"You've shown me some code with no explaination for what is going on, and you say 'I want to get decimal as well'. What do you mean by that? You're using ints and you want to get decimal values, so use decimal data types!"
 
Lots of answers there are rather bad ^ Should we do anything about that, since it's so old? (cc @NathanOliver)
@SmokeDetector 16k rep user, was that an edit? Looks like another can't-delete-through-android one
 
2:08 PM
@Adriaan I would just close it
 
@FOX9000 ah, that's one of those "In the newest version do this" edits. I never remember whether that's acceptable or not
 
@Yam no, still too broad
 
2:26 PM
wow
just accidentally posted my first comment as an answer
it must still be Monday
 
2:42 PM
pulls out a bunch of marshmallows and throws them into the fire pit
 
@Compass no stick? how do you intend on getting them back. such a waste. :'(
throw in the crackers and chocolate, they'll make the smores themselves. lol
 
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
the sticks are implied
Question about toasting marshmallows
when are they done? When they are lightly brown?
Ah, the ol' 5th Grade SO abuse =w=
 
user3956566
@Henders I know and how we can take that for granted
 
i've come across people who have literally thrown them in the fire and then come to the realization of their error.
 
user3956566
@kayess pft no way. He doesn't like horses! hence the ping :D
 
2:48 PM
@Compass I cn tell you when they ayre overdue: when they burn.
 
@YvetteColomb Lovely picture of a horse charcoal at the moment :P
 
user3956566
?
 
user3956566
ah
 
user3956566
yep nice pic :)
 
2:52 PM
> According to individual preference, the marshmallows are heated to various degrees—from gently toasted to a charred outer layer. Often, the latter is achieved by igniting the marshmallow.
Only a monster would char a marshmallow.
 
I must be a monster then. I don't stop until the thing is on fire.
 
> some people just like to watch the marshmallow burn
2
 
@Compass I always wonders who eats these actually heated. They are cold already kinda - uargh.
 
@Nkosi mmmh
 
Marshmallows when toasted are nice.
The outer layer is crunchy and the inside is melty.
 
3:10 PM
Should I get a salad... or a crunchwrap of death?
Hmmm probably a salad, can't get bloated. Oh wait, I already ruined that by eating taquitos in the morning crud =w=
 
3:24 PM
sniped by j0
 
@TylerH so they answers the Q then dupe-hammers it ?
I thought that was frowned upon
 
it is, and it's not allowed for users of this room to do that and then post a cv request
but j0 didn't post here (and isn't a participant)
 
I can understand if you found the dupe after but aren't you suppose to remove your answer if that is the case
 
many users don't care that much to remove them
or they care enough about rep that they don't want to remove them
but yes I agree that, theoretically, the ideal step is to remove your existing answer if you close a question as a dupe of another
 
ok i see. i thought that was a site rule. not just this room.
 
3:30 PM
Ah, nope. It's just this room
Meta has had a few discussions on how excessive behavior like that is particularly scummy, though
And if you intentionally close stuff as dupes after answering, to prevent competition, for example, that is against the site rules
 
that is why i thought it was a site rule. just like if you edit a post to add a tag you have hammer privs on they wont let you close it as dupe
 
There's no automated detection for such behavior, though; you'd have to flag for a moderator to take a look
this specific situation doesn't appear to be one of those cases though; j0 was like 3rd to answer and posted a mere second or two after the dupe auto-comment was created
had I had the gold badge by now he likely wouldn't have been able to post his answer at all
Actually no he probably would have because of the stupid caching rule that lets some answers be posted after a question is closed
Yo dawg, I heard you like to include includes in your includes, so I included some includes in your includes so you can include while you include.
5
 
Too many includes?
 
nah your comment is fine, just humorous :-)
 
@TylerH rofl
 
3:36 PM
:)
 
@TylerH or just vote accordingly, they can bleet as much as they want about "downvoter care to comment" but to me it's pretty obvious.
@NathanOliver always best to be inclusive.
 
@Lankymart I try to be inclusive with my includes. miss-inclusion of includes causes problems including not compiling when the implementation changes includes and does not include a include you expected to be included for inclusive purposes.
 
@NathanOliver [mind blown]
 
user4639281
@MadaraUchiha That's my point. If I prematurely limit the input allowed based on what might happen, I limit what the caller can do with it. Sure it might fail, but the caller might also be able to make that work if the limitations are not there.
 
3:52 PM
@TinyGiant Well, it depends on what the caller wants to do with it.
If you know you're going to only need for..of support, you can ask for an Iterable<T> in your function.
Arrays, strings, Sets, Maps, NodeLists will all be accepted.
Heading home, be back in ~30.
 
user4639281
@MadaraUchiha Except you can't ask for an Iterable<T> in JavaScript
 
@TinyGiant What do you care if you're in JS realm?
You don't have typing anyway.
 
user4639281
EXACTLY
 
@TinyGiant TS is nice in that it makes it so you know exactly what you have in any function
 
user4639281
Yeah, but types
 
3:59 PM
With very little work on your part.
@TinyGiant So?
As long as they aren't in your face COUGH COUGH JAVA COUGH COUGH why do you care?
 
user4639281
Because types
 
@TinyGiant So, you're just not that type of person? :-)
 
user4639281
4:14 PM
@Makyen !person.type
 
grrr a 20K user should be able to flag faster than every 5 seconds.
 
Slowing you down?
 
@NathanOliver what about <20k users? makes puppy eyes
 
got to give you something to aspire to
 
@NathanOliver I've got problems enough gathering that last 800 rep to 10k as is :P
 
4:21 PM
@AshishAhuja I'm pretty sure @NathanOliver already made an inspirational poster about this...
 
@Adriaan must not be doing it right. Did you try turning it off and on?
 
I've gotta go for today. bye!
 
0
Q: Catch the [nullreferenceexception] on [null]

Christian GollhardtSince we close everything related to a NullReferenceException as a cannonical dupe, do we really want to have these tags? In which case a tag [*Exception] could make any sense?

 
@NathanOliver my usual method involves another beer...
 
4:23 PM
Mar 22 at 12:35, by NathanOliver
@kayess Here you go: http://i.stack.imgur.com/LquSX.png
 
lol
@HovercraftFullOfEels went with unclear
 
@NathanOliver: that works
 
[ TagWiki Edit Monitor ] Tag wiki links 3051363; 3051364; (verified by @BhargavRao)
 
4:42 PM
@TinyGiant Types are good, types help you.
As long as you don't need to pay the protection fee, why do you care about the extra information they get you for almost free?
"Because types" isn't a valid argument. I know you've been badly burnt by Java, but it's no excuse.
 
I like my types
 
Yeah, of course I do. I get great editor tooling for free, I don't even need to work hard to convert the entire project, and I can opt out pretty much instantly whenever I want to.
 
Types never translate into compiled code so there is no cost for static types. And if the language gas the right features (like auto type deduction) it's not really a pain to use them at all in the source code because you give one thing a type and let the compiler figure it out from there.
 
@NathanOliver To clarify, please do not gas me.
 
gas you?
 
4:50 PM
@NathanOliver Don't gas me, or the right features.
They deserve to live too.
 
Oh. danggit. Has*
 
😉
 
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because helping you access a website is not a programming problem. — NathanOliver 1 min ago
 
5:34 PM
This interview is someone who's been working since when I was only 4.
 
@Compass is that a problem?
 
so the person has only been working for 2 years?
 
burn
 
I didn't want to make that joke ...
 
well, gunr is, that guy
 
5:44 PM
@rene 19 April Netherlands-Japan ice hockey game in Dordt, you coming? :p
 
@rene no, I just feel really young owo
 
@Adriaan Boxing on Ice? Meh
 
@rene exactly! It's awesome! (Though The Netherlands fails miserably in it)
 
Wait, are there as many mid-game fist fights as the American/Canadian hockey leagues?
 
The Boxing part?
 
5:47 PM
@gunr2171 IIHF disallows them. They're broken up before they start usually, with hefty penalties involved
 
boooo
 
@gunr2171 must be, we copied the game from you guys
 
that's like, half the entertainment of the game
 
@gunr2171 nah, it's a pointless part which only attributes to a bad reputation imho. No need for it during play
@gunr2171 NHL just announced yesterday that they won't be on suspension for the Olympics, and will enforce commitment of the teams to play in the NHL that month btb
 
I once played a hockey video game
 
5:49 PM
If Colosseum combat ever comes back into fashion, I'm sure America is going to securing those TV rights before anyone else.
 
whenever a fight started, I'd back away with my character
and the other person would go to the sin bin for "roughing"
also, we did have American Gladiator
 
Isn't american football essentially the modern version of gladiator fights?
 
Kindof
 
More like Rugby but with lots of start/stops
 
@JanDvorak Move a metre, stand still for 5 mins, move another metre, stand still again for 5 mins -> repeat. Easily modelled by a drunken-walk, just check when it corsses the line
 
5:53 PM
Lately though they are making it more like flag football
 
is the flag 3/4 red and white and 1/4 blue and white?
 
Normally they are red, orange, or yellow: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_football
 
... oh. Flag football is actually a thing.
Never heard of it. It could be fun.
 
it's american football without the tackling
 
It is fun. Nice way to work on the mechanics of the game without the injury risk of tackling.
 
5:56 PM
also it's less of a contact sport than soccer
 
I don't watch soccer, but sometimes I watch ice hockey if there's a big match.
 
I like watching hokey. My team is going to the playoffs again, which is nice.
 
The cubs?
(joke)
 
6:27 PM
Plop!
 
Looks broad any opinions?
 
Meh. Looks useful to me
 
6:44 PM
\o
 
seems f but tworkzindia.com has been set as pattern matching, buuh...
 
it is a 3 year old answer
 
hmm wondering why it was caught?, no edit..
 
The Q was answered 4 minutes ago so the whole thing was rescanned
 
6:50 PM
@PetterFriberg I'd consider "India" a great keyword for spam
 
aah ok
 
@FireAlarm lacks mcve
 
7:02 PM
> Sorting of sorted data
 
Hello!
 
Hello!
 
Jello!
 
user4639281
Trello!
 
Cello!
 
user4639281
7:10 PM
^
 
user4639281
:P
 
oh well...afk
 
user4639281
7:22 PM
My dual monitor stand just showed up, and it looks awesome.
 
@TinyGiant Nice
 
user4639281
@JanDvorak Here's a dupe
 
back...I think
 
@TinyGiant I have never managed to handle 2 monitors... I don't know on which to look and where the heck the mouse is....
front I guess.
 
I use my secondary monitor for Youtube and Twitch
Or for the entire Firefox when I'm using the primary monitor for something else
 
user4639281
7:35 PM
@PetterFriberg I use one monitor for the Dealership Management System, then the other monitor is for the web browser and email and such
 
@TinyGiant Yeah I got people at work with similar setup... I have tried but I just mess up with the mouse.. in the end I prefer alt-tab
 
Sam
 
Is workflow not a word?
 
it is but browsers suck
so they won't include it in their dictionaries
@SmokeDetector error?
@SmokeDetector waffles
 
@TylerH yes, the double [[ ]] confuse the markdown
 
Has there been discussion on meta about N identical lines skipped?
 
8:36 PM
@M.A.R. thanks
 
@rene English compound words usually start as hyphenated, then move to no hyphen. Google Ngram Viewer (workflow vs work-flow) will tell you how popular each version is. Usage often depends on context, with the non-hyphenated version being adopted sooner in niche contexts.
 
@rene It's totally a word if you talk about it . . .
@Makyen +1
@Makyen BTW I forgot why but someone who knows what she's talking about told me Ngram after 2000 is not very trustworthy
It obviously works for huge differences like 'workflow vs. work-flow' though
 
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