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1:03 PM
@Cerbrus Yes-yes, but it's not 100% agreeing so...
 
lets disagree to disagree @kayess
 
@ColdFire No! :D
 
lol
 
lol
 
SOCVR: where we are arguing over agreeing
2
Hiya @EdCottrell \o Everyone behave.
 
1:08 PM
NO
 
NEVER
 
:(
 
no
 
@kayess I don't think we should behave, but have bees instead
 
@Mogsdad HIYA \o
 
1:14 PM
g'Day!
 
hey pops
Where have you been for soooooo long?
 
@Mogsdad o/
 
slacking
 
On my first day of summer vacation, I went downtown. To look for a job. Then I hung out at the drug store.
 
Hey Mogs
 
1:16 PM
Life has been busy, is all. And still is... but I thought I'd drop in for a minute.
 
Anything we could help with?
 
I need to be productive... so, Ctrl + W
 
answered 2 mins ago. We need to travel back in time to nuke that one fast enough.
@Tunaki Slowpoke ;-)
 
Flying fish can travel backwards in time
 
argh
 
1:18 PM
@kayess Nope! I was out of work, but I have a great new job (starting next week). Today I'm replacing the speakers in my car.
...and now I gotta run! 'later!
 
@Mogsdad Cya \o
 
@SmokeDetector Waffles
 
it's gone
 
The moment I comment it's not gone yet, it's gone.
So, how long is that grace period after hammering a question closed? stackoverflow.com/questions/39349984/…
 
@Cerbrus couple of hours I think
 
1:23 PM
@Tunaki I disagree...
 
@Cerbrus Me too
 
So you agree :D
Hah! Gotcha!
 
:(
 
lol
 
@Tunaki BUSTED!
 
1:25 PM
@kayess i disagree
 
I guess
 
"unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming"
isn't this question exactly about that - a tool primarily used for programming?
 
@tkausl Configuring syntax highlighting isn't a programming issue.
It's a question about a piece of software.
I've never seen a question like that not get closed, now I think of it...
@Braiam: Why'd you change that tag on a 2-year-old meta question? o.O
 
1:42 PM
@Cerbrus questions about how to use or configure settings for programming-related software are explicitly on topic
How to configure syntax highlighting in Visual Studio is on-topic because while it's not a programming problem directly, it's a problem with a programming IDE
which is under the direct purview of a programmer and his needs
now that's not to say that particular question is OK (I haven't clicked on it)
 
modded
 
and user destroyed, bah
 
boy that was fast
 
Wondering if it was mod'd or CM'd ? Or it's the same technically
 
must've been mod'd because it only has -2
I mean it was locked/deleted by CM
 
1:45 PM
Oops, I got confused.
 
but it was probably a human
 
@BhargavRao Was is Spolsky'd? :D
 
CM doesn't auto-edit to hide the content, does it?
 
I thought CM means Community Manager, So I said, CEO'd :D
 
oh, C.M. does. I was reading CM as a two-letter abbreviation of the Community account
I guess kayess meant the former
 
1:46 PM
Yep
 
Can we all just blame @kayess for causing confusion and move on?
 
Other cases are Community Managed :D
 
!!/blame
 
@JanDvorak It's Tim Castelijns's fault.
 
also @kayess pretty sure they just use a stored procedure for that recalc
 
1:50 PM
@Cerbrus because it was mistagged
and darn! I need to be productive!
 
morning!
 
inb4 and brb, meeting
 
@Braiam It's... 2 years old.
Ah well.
*shrug*
 
@TylerH :( that's so '90ish
 
@kayess They just call history.rewrite() and poof.
 
2:05 PM
is there an edit the tags error, I cant add mysqldump to stackoverflow.com/q/39350894
either in quick mode or full edit mode
 
lol thx
kind of silly though. People might want to just look on that tag for those 2k questions
 
@Gothdo It works :o
 
2:22 PM
@Gothdo that's nice. It'd be convenient to load the answer also, so that you can read it and choose to retract directly in the flag history
 
@Tunaki You can just click the link and open the answer in a new tab.
 
Yeah I know, I'm conversative on clicks :p
 
The main purpose of that script is to be able to retract a flag when you can't do this directly, because (1) post is deleted and you have less than 10k rep, or (2) that was a VLQ flag.
 
I want to use it for "this is spam but its complicated" flags when subsequent user activity makes it not complicated and the post is nuked in the meantime
So that mods don't need to pull up my flag to go "ahh, so this has been deleted by community already. This flag is pointless but not wrong I guess"
 
Can we retract a flag after it is deemed unhelpful?
 
2:31 PM
@Drew If it was possible, it would be a bug.
@Drew I just checked that. It's not possible, you get {"Success":false,"Message":"No flag to retract found","ResultChangedState":false,"Outcome":2}.
 
I was just kidding btw
not even Ratbert would try that
 
2:46 PM
Any python people? Is this answer in python? stackoverflow.com/a/39336951/1663001
 
where are all the snakes
 
@DavidG thats python, yes
 
So it's a python answer to a javascript question, that's a first for me!
 
3:02 PM
@Cerbrus Is the question still open? Is it on-topic? If so, it should be correctly tagged, regardless of age.
 
I didn't CV as duplicate?!
 
@NisseEngström I disagree. If the question holds no current merit apart from it being on-topic editing it results in a bump to the front page, which is unwarranted if the issue is no longer relevant
 
@tkausl Neither did I...
I'm also fighting a losing battle with the OP...
 
JAL
Hi all
 
@NisseEngström @Adriaan pretty much summed up my stance on it.
It was a 2 year old meta question re-tagged from discussion -> support.
Imo, that's just really not necessary. But meh.
 
3:17 PM
That's the main reason why I hate the Archaeologist badge. People edit endless turds to get a silver badge, bumping all kinds of rubbish to the front page
 
@tkausl Odd. Was it closed by the SOCVFinder?
 
No
 
@NisseEngström not odd; he CVd, OP accepted the reason DavidG gave, the dupe, hence that's the reason to show up. @tkausl
 
we both CVd as unclear though
the dupe was just a comment
(or a flag)
 
@tkausl Community dupe voted-> OP accepted the dupe. Therefore, that is the reason it was closed. Regardless of which reason you choose, your name will always show up if you CVed, regardless of the final majority-voted reason, or, in this case, mod voted reason
 
3:25 PM
We should just have it deleted imo
 
user4639281
@Kyll did you take a look at the revised code?
 
Nope. Same link?
 
user4639281
yep
 
user4639281
Canned the callbacks, using object.assign. Can perform operations outside of the declaration.
 
user4639281
Looks so much cleaner, imo
 
3:29 PM
Really? Nice.
link?
kinda maybe lost it, too lazy to open history
 
3:43 PM
What CV-reason do I use if OP bases his question on a wrong assumption?
 
@tkausl unclear, probably
 
Too broad?
As in, I'd have to debunk that assumption first
 
@Adriaan Oh, the OP voted to close it as a duplicate but the actual close vote was cast by Community♦? That makes sense.
 
@NisseEngström it makes sense but it's still weird :-)
 
@kayess No plans for an election at the moment.
2
 
user4639281
 
@NisseEngström yea, if there's a proposed duplicate, the OP can accept that. Then Community shows up as the closing entity
 
@MadaraUchiha (cc @NathanOliver, You gotta wait for an year!)
 
    if(!(this instanceof ReviewFieldset)) {
        return new ReviewFieldset(...arguments);
    }
@TinyGiant Redundant imo
It's in CapitalCase, it's clearly a constructor. Don't try to make your code idiot proof unless it's a library you intend to ship as a 3rd party in someone else's code.
 
user4639281
Well, if it wasn't new'd, then I want to return a new instance of it. I check to see if the object is an instance of that in the future
 
user4639281
And I do kind of intend to make it pluggable in the future
 
3:52 PM
@TinyGiant Yeah, I know what it does.
 
user4639281
This is a prototype for what will become the structural part of my One To Rule Them All userscript
 
I see
 
user4639281
Which will allow users to pick and choose which of my userscripts they would like to have installed, and allow them to build their own plugins for it
 
Let me dig up a fun templating engine using proxies.
 
user4639281
I want it to be as minimalistic as possible
 
3:55 PM
That was easier than I had thought
(cc @Kyll in case I didn't show you this one yet ^)
@TinyGiant Ever used Proxies before?
 
user4639281
Have not yet
 
user4639281
Will dig into that tonight after work
 
In this case, I set a get() trap to intercept any property access
 
user4639281
I see that
 
I then return a function that will createElement based on the name of the call
So t.b() is essentially document.createElement('b')
Is also added attributes and children to the mix, to make it more like a templating engine
 
user4639281
3:57 PM
very cool. hows the support?
 
user4639281
Seems good support
 
user4639281
Will definitely be using that
 
Good for anything modern.
 
user4639281
Well, using proxies anyway
 
No dice if you care for IE.
 
user4639281
3:58 PM
Who cares about IE tho
 
@MadaraUchiha $('<b>') and I'm out
 
@TinyGiant I think rene runs it
 
user4639281
... other than rene
 
@Tunaki Did you mean $('<b>')?
jQuery is love. jQuery is life.
 
user4639281
I hate jQuery, it's too heavy
 
3:59 PM
@Queen k
 
and good luck running it on windows ce, ie browser....
 
@TinyGiant Boo you suck.
 
@TinyGiant I''m too heavy, too
 
user4639281
I like minimalism, which jQuery definitely is not
 
@PetterFriberg Not really.
It was never that hard.
People are lazy, and jQuery scratched an itch.
 
user4639281
4:00 PM
@JanDvorak That's OK I like you
 
A very annoying itch, but still, just an itch.
jQuery became widely successful because it eliminated the need of hardened experience when dealing with multiple browsers
 
meeh I tried some, not with great success... but I guess if I try a couple of days maybe
 
At least, most of it.
For those of us who already had such experience, jQuery didn't matter too much.
 
on stuff like this, I have really hard time to run jquery and html5 (I gave up) barcode.co.uk/products/…
 
@PetterFriberg Ew.
 
4:04 PM
Have you every tried?, maybe just me being skeptic and gave up to early...
 
@PetterFriberg You need a UX designer :) not a jQuery expert :)
 
@Tuna meeh it has a IE browser... I run wep apps on it...
actually the OS is a bit older CE
... stackoverflow.com/questions/13386810/… ... maybe, maybe not... I guess I continue with old html and some simple javascript...
 
user4639281
@MadaraUchiha jQuery has never mattered much IMO, it just spawned a new class of low quality question... and answer.
 
@TinyGiant No, jQuery drove the web years forward.
It showed that you can do things in JavaScript beyond the minimal playing and leaving the "heavy stuff" for Flash or Java
And it brought an influx of devs of all skill levels to frontend dev.
It lowered the bar, for better or worse.
jQuery is a great library. I just happen to have no need for it.
 
user4639281
@MadaraUchiha Agree with that, don't think it was a good thing
 
4:12 PM
@TinyGiant I think it was. The web is meant to be accessible for both authors and consumers
jQuery made the web that much more accessible.
 
anyway still better to leave the "heavy" stuff to java : )
 
@PetterFriberg That's hardly true.
 
user4639281
@PetterFriberg Bah! Naysayer. Better to learn JS
 
JQuery made IE8- workable.
 
Even on the server side, Node outperforms Java in most cases today.
And with less boilerplate.
Java has its use cases, don't get me wrong.
And Java 8 did miracles with the (forgive me for saying, but) crap they had on their hands
But Java is no longer the de-facto ""if you need something serious done, that's what you go for" it used to be.
 
4:15 PM
for me the basic use case is manageable projects, IDE, compiled... etc, I do not like scripting language, takes much more time to dev and debug...
 
I've only ever found Java to be good in Android.
 
@PetterFriberg when was the last time you ran unit tests in JavaScript?
 
@AlexanderO'Mara Oracle would disagree. They say Android wrecked Java :P
 
: ), not yesterday, but tell me a nice IDE that works as eclipse for java.
 
@PetterFriberg WebStorm
Even Intellij
 
4:17 PM
Let me download WebStorm and try.. have you tested Intel XDK?
 
@PetterFriberg Nope.
 
@Machavity Oracle is just doing what any lawsuit happy company does when they can't innovate anymore.
 
I was hopping for that, but still the scripting is like in notepad...
 
IntelliJ is quite good
 
@PetterFriberg It's really not.
JavaScript today has a build step (with compilation in most cases)
It has a linter that checks for syntax error and common bugs
It has unit tests
 
4:19 PM
@PetterFriberg Get IntelliJ IDEA (Webstorm, but for Java)
 
The only thing it does not have is strict typing, and I argue that that's a good thing
 
I need to test WebStorm
 
@PetterFriberg While you're at it, look into gulp, webpack, mocha and babel
 
I write only like 10 precent of the actual code I do (the rest I leave for the IDE to complete)
 
That should cover your bases pretty well.
 
4:20 PM
Atom + Tern + ESLint = Happy JS development
 
gulp (build tool, like make), webpack (module system), mocha (unit test framework, like junit), babel (allows you to write spec level JavaScript that hasn't reached browsers yet, and compile it down to JavaScript the browser has implemented)
 
Bye guys, Time to leave.
 
Well to tell the truth I actually like installed applications better then web applications... to much web stuff, but sometimes I'm forced to do web applications so I fall back on simple html5, jquery stuff...
@BhargavRao cya
it has always been a pain to do the web application.... graphical design, back-end, front-end (jquery) ... blarg..
started to use Intel XDK (bootstrap, jquery), at least a bit quicker, but writing code is still as in notepad..
I will study all that stuff, give me a couple of month's : ), then report back
 
hey all
 
@PetterFriberg Too many disadvantage to installed apps imo.
Mainly, cross platform and sandboxing, both of which, the browser solves pretty well.
 
4:34 PM
I do not agree, installed applications kick a**, java runs great in business environment, you can handle memory much better etc etc... but I guess this will be long discussion, so lets agree to disagree.
 
lets disagree to agree
 
There is not much stuff you can do in a browser that I can not do 10 times faster with an installed application.
 
@PetterFriberg Maybe
But performance in the browser is pretty good
And web applications are distributed much more easily than installed ones.
 
answer a question right and they delete it stackoverflow.com/q/39348966
 
except when it isn't
 
4:38 PM
@Braiam I can say the same for installed apps.
 
No wonder I could care less about rep 1 people
 
If you get sloppy with your implementation, it'll crawl.
 
well this topic is totally debatable
 
@MadaraUchiha that is easy to handled by distributing updates and install via web, (eaiser then to install a webserver at the firm)
 
@ColdFire I call your statement debatable
 
4:39 PM
@PetterFriberg I mean, getting people to download your app to begin with.
 
@Braiam then lets disagree to disagree
 
Most people would take something they don't need to install.
 
I'm mostly in business environment, hence developing software for firms... not apps or other stuff for the public...
 
@PetterFriberg Yeah, that makes sense in that case.
I tend to hate business environments, as you call it, for various reasons.
So I stay away from them like a plague :D
 
so they download installer and get updates via web, I can even control all the software remotely,
 
4:42 PM
yeah right petter
same with mobile apps
 
yeah same story...it is not so easy to transfer data on the serial port from the browser..
anyway everything has pro - cons, just think that everybody was to much in hurry to build web apps, where actually installed apps would have performed better.
 
@PetterFriberg Yeah, but I kinda don't want to.
I want to deliver an application for people to use around the world.
Without specialized hardware or intranet
I can trust a webapp more, because I know it has no access to my filesystem and my processes
 
Then we are working with Nick Version 1 stackoverflow.com/questions/39352884 who deletes a question and it becomes Nick Version 2 stackoverflow.com/questions/39353670 different account
I need to go throw a frisbee !
 
we have different work I need to communicate with plc, thermal printers, payment station ecc... so ok every app has its best implementation.
@Drew a boomerang would be more appriopriated
 
as long as I don't catch it on the return trip
 
4:48 PM
lol
 
it will hit you in the face as the SO stuff : ), you will get used to it.
 
5:06 PM
@Queen k
@AlexanderO'Mara Android isn't even Java!
 
i.stack.imgur.com/rfClY.png --- how the heck is that possibile
the message is pointing to the message below (I'm hovering Tuna's message)
 
@PetterFriberg because science
 
hmm maybe a bug in chat... if I press arrow it brings me to the correct one...
 
@Tunaki right tuna
 
Eww installed App @Petter
A pain to deploy to clients.
 
5:10 PM
Yeah you are one of those lets do webapp guys : )
 
@Drew Hey can I play with you?
 
@Tunaki naa much easier... they download and install by them self...
they just click next next next and done (I even bundle the jre so np)
 
Yeah but it's always a mess to handle updates... you need to download the binaries, hot install. And there's the OS compability mess.
 
@PetterFriberg because it highlights both, the message it refers to and messages which refer to the message you hover
 
@Tunaki no you just upload the version on ftp, the software downloads and install (if they have paid)
 
5:12 PM
Well I can guess there's the browser compability mess also, even though mature JS libraries handle it fine. :)
 
i.stack.imgur.com/xCTiC.png --- can't be much easier
 
Yeah, next next go
 
@PetterFriberg well, it could've been in a language I can actually speak...
 
exactly... no mess with browser, web service, connection etc...
 
lol
 
5:14 PM
@Adriaan ooh it is, you just need to install it on your system ... : )
 
@PetterFriberg english also?
 
Yeah actually only english and italian : ), we have one in Spanish to but not normally..
 
And I hate Swing.
 
me too
 
I love Swing ... : ), so quick so easy...
 
5:17 PM
@Queen k
 
but actually every component we use is an our extension of swing...
 
yeah if you have years of experience with it and have a great home grown swing utility, it can be nice
but Swing by itself.... Ugh.
 
Yeah we have all or own comments.. just pass query and the table / tree setup by it self
 
i see nice
 
And IDE support is still lacking, after like 20 years....
 
5:20 PM
android is awesome compared to that
 
why would you need IDE support for swing??, JBuilder had it once.. you need to code interface much better...
 
UI. Drag and drop components. Easy positioning, alignment.
 
meeh then you do not know swing : )
 
Yeah :D
 
you should never position stuff...
stuff should resize and move around in interface... (no fix position or size)
 
5:22 PM
like android i guess
 
Yeah you just need to now how to use the BorderLayout and GridBagLayout in swing then you can do any interface...
need to run, cya all later... keep Swinging!!!
 
bye
 
@Queen k
I'll start JavaFXing.
 
Start android
 

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