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12:44 AM
@Borgleader Hiiyo
@R.MartinhoFernandes #JohnOliver
 
1:40 AM
Everybody is out catching Pokemon
 
@ThePhD he's so awesome
 
What's so amazing about pokeman go?
 
well it's pokemon
as I understand it
 
You are interacting with your environment. Most of these suburban kids weren't allowed outside.
 
2:11 AM
I just saw a cop yell at a kid (20+ years old) who tried to catch a Pokemon while crossing the street.
 
lol
 
10/10 would read again
 
I also like how that prof's answer can also be used as a general reply to the "All Lives Matter" crowd.
(i.e. nobody claimed otherwise, sit down, let's have a chat instead of arguing about semantics)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well all lives do matter, but I get what you mean.
i.e. its not because i say X matters that Y and Z dont.
 
Exactly.
I think the whole thing should have been "Black Lives Matter Too".
But even then some people would have whined about that.
 
2:36 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, that would have expressed the intent better I think, but its also less catchy :P
 
"BLMT" sounds like a kind of sandwich.
 
or the sequel to BLM
 
BLM 2.0
 
2:50 AM
electric boogaloo
 
wut
did you fry yourself trying to jumpstart your car's battery?
 
nah
I'm gonna try and wiggle the connections first
and then call AAA in the morning if that doesn't work and it's still badly behaved in the morning
 
I know nothing about cars, well... I watch top gear a lot but thats it.
 
and then go to the mechanic and tell them it happened again
 
Just jumpstarting a car?
 
2:54 AM
according to the well of knowledge and bad facts known as the internet, a loose connection may also be responsible for the same symptoms as a dead battery, and I find it likelier since it's not a consistent problem, and I have poked the connections the first time, when I opened the hood to see if there was a dead animal or something equally obvious wrong
that the car started after I poked the battery connections is a point in favor of the loose connection theory
and then, when I'm done with that I'm going to get a jump starting kit because I really should have learned my lesson last time
and I hate depending on the kindness of strangers
welp poking time
 
What makes a great software engineer? I greatly agree with this one.
 
you should read this :)
 
Success! It wasn't poking so much as snapping the cap back in place but it started
 
3:10 AM
I disagree, a great software engineer thinks of great ideas, then brings them to life
note plural ... yes, multiple
 
@Borgleader interestign
 
here is an example of a great software engineer (I am sorry google, no matter how great you claim your software engineers to be, the top notch ones like this simply aren't working for you)
 
How Canadian of you. :P
I suspect that I'm at the clever clogs stage. :/
 
3:28 AM
Quebecer to be precise
@jaggedSpire the what?
 
@Borgleader There's kind of a balance point regarding "8" in your blog that I didn't see mentioned... there's a cost to write/maintain a software package, and a cost to use it. If there are tons of users, smaller usage costs become exaggerated and may justify more complex solutions. OTOH if there aren't many users, it's much harder to justify making the usage easy.
...unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean there
 
@HWalters That's not my blog :P
I mean, I linked it but did not write it.
 
Oh, sorry, misdirected rant then
 
I just thought it was an interesting perspective.
 
3:49 AM
@Borgleader the too-clever-for-my-own-good phase of coding style. I put a decent amount of thought into the architecture of my programs, but the actual implementation is probably more clever than it needs to be.
I don't think I'm awful about it, but that doesn't mean I'm good.
Or not awful, actually. :P
I appreciate the article posts here. They make me examine my coding habits in a critical light, and that's not actually something I'd be guaranteed to do otherwise.
 
4:06 AM
=.= Now I can understand why embedded programmers avoid abstractions like a plague, even with great compilers
 
Care to enlighten a skrub?
 
Declaring classes and variables everywhere adds bytes and runtime costs that easily eat through the limited resources on (some) devices. Most of them fall back on precompiler macros... the code is not pretty
 
Ah. Yeah, I can se that happening
My dessert came with four spoons. :|
 
But then again, anything with >128kb can generally afford the abstractions you'll need. I'm working on an AtTiny45 and I only get 4kb program space and 256b ram, so templates/macros are pretty much the only abstraction tools that won't bog everything down. They also happen to be the most arcane and least predictable abstractions in C++
@jaggedSpire O.o four? Do they have different functions, like eat() and drop()?
 
What excellent fun.
@Aaron3468 sadly, no. It's a small cake (at most 1 cup volume) and two scoops of ice cream.
 
4:18 AM
Weird, maybe it's an exponential function: 1 cake, 2 scoops, 4 spoons
I wonder what's after that
 
I'm mostly suprised that it's a common occurrence for four people to share it.
 
One cake, two scoops of ice cream, four spoons... now all you need is a few philosophers
 
Lol
Well, common enough to have them bring four spoons when they're not sure how many people are eating it.
 
4:31 AM
40% off C++ Concurrency in Action until 14th July with code wm070816lt http://www.cplusplusconcurrencyinaction.com/manning/ Please RT
 
ooh
 
4:47 AM
 
TIL I was not along in thinking that plane looked dumb
 
I can't imagine planes like these would fly
But hey, engineers can do some pretty crazy stuff
 
the first one was most probably photoshopped
the other two could potentially fly but a lot of wind resistant I would think, so not fuel efficient
 
Yeah, they definitely aren't the most aerodynamic looking
 
4:58 AM
space utilization is probably not optimized either
 
to the contrary, if the last one is real I suspect it's entirely optimized for carrying large loads
 
things like integer division are actually done in FP
 
Yeah, but not FP addition if I recall
 
Apart from integer division :P
 
the other fun thing is comparing data sizes, for example there are few hardware devices that support single/2 (half) data types, these can be faster simply because you can cache more of them
 
Here's a link with some interesting benchmarks: stackoverflow.com/questions/2550281/…
 
5:52 AM
You can put 32 uint16_t's in a single cache line. That does make it attractive.
I do wonder if the 16-bit instructions are slower than 32-bit.
 
From experience they weren't generated by MSVC correctly
The great thing about 16 bit instructions is that you can make a array with all possible results
 
@Aaron3468 interesting
 
It shows that on newer architectures, floating point tends to take less of a hit in mul/div operations, but carries a bit of overhead compared to integer add/sub
 
you guys forget the memory access time though, you will typically be memory bound
You have to batch stuff if you want to see a real difference
 
Yep.
The cache miss dominates all.
Gallery of cache effects item 2 :P
 
user1804599
6:26 AM
@StackedCrooked happy birthday!
 
oh right
I forgot :P
@Bassie Thanks :)
 
user1804599
You stuck your whole body through a pussy 36 years ago
 
user1804599
Certainly time to celebrate!
 
Happy bday!
 
6:36 AM
Is template recursion run by the compiler or runtime?
 
compiler
 
Sweet!
 
recursive instantiation, that is
 
Oh, I see, so recursive functions are still the runtime then.
 
Any time you deal with values only known at runtime.
If the values are know at compile-time then you can get the result at compile-time as well.
Depending on how good the optimizer is.
Constexpr is your friend here.
 
6:58 AM
Today's Program for the "Learn something new" Initiative. Guess the output for the following C++ program? Comment your answer. For answer refer the following link. Strongly it is not recommended to look the answer before guessing the output for program
Answer and explanation:
 
1 message moved to bin
@VinothKumar If you must post this, at least post a link, not an image.
 
I'll have to study templates a bit more, honestly. I haven't had to use them this way before
 
Cool, I figured out that I didn't need templates, but I really need to figure them out beyond the basic use-case
 
Ven
7:14 AM
3rd day, here we go.
 
^^ /cc @Xeo
And for fucks sake:
 
Ven
@VinothKumar lol
U w0t
 
Ven
@Mysticial all stolen from some deviantart for sure
 
wow that's a wide range of prices
oh wait that vertical line is 1
that's expensive
 
7:20 AM
Even though AMW got double-booked with Exxxotica this year at the same time and place, I didn't see anyone from the other convention. Everyone outside and inside the convention center was for AMW.
 
They're usually handpainted and sometimes limited run
 
It was supposed to be a disaster because of the double-booking.
 
Ven
@milleniumbug yeh
The prices are the same here tho fwiw
 
7:33 AM
The wallscrolls seems to be cheaper at AMW than ACEN. But much less variety since the AMW is a lot smaller than ACEN.
I didn't end up picking up any new wallscrolls since I didn't get to the con until like 30 min. before it closed. (I didn't skip work today.) And there didn't seem to be anything new from ACEN.
 
template<class T> T bitwise_or(T value) { return value; }. Error, T does not name a type. What am I missing?
 
You are missing the true error which lays elsewhere.
Try compiling with clang.
It often has clearer messages.
 
Huh. Looks like avr-clang exists.
 
Ven
How will I find Morwenn in that crowd...
 
7:50 AM
lol, I am blocked by Steve Shives on Twitter! I do not think I have ever interacted with him. I guess I follow the "wrong" people.
 
DDRB |= _BV(DDB0) | _BV(DDB1) | _BV(DDB2) | _BV(DDB3) | _BV(DDB4);. Looks like it's expanding properly and I may have found the error. I need to move it to my IDE to see...
 
@nwp Holy cow, I had no idea.
 
Nope... I'll need to see if I can get a C++1z compliant AVR compiler because fold expressions solve the problem
 
Identifiers like _BV are reserved for the implementation. Do not use such names.
 
@wilx lol
do you not see context, like, at all
 
8:00 AM
It's a proprietary library that isn't all that well designed in the first place. That is the convention established in the manual
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Depends. Was I wrong? Please explain.
 
Yes, you were
 
It's a macro for microcontroller programming. #define _BV(BIT) (1 << BIT), and basically anytime you access a register, you type that piece of code
 
Ahem
<ctime> or <time.h>?
Which do you prefer?
 
ctime
Including time.h in a C++ program isn't exactly guaranteed to behave correctly.
 
8:07 AM
@ThePhD Why?
 
of course it is
 
Isn't it just the C header?
 
It will 100% declare functions in :: and may declare functions in ::std
 
@VermillionAzure The cfoo whenever it is practical.
 
@wilx I feel like using the std versions of the C stuff is sort of weird
 
8:09 AM
> Non-standard headers, like conio.h or graphics.h, may not be set up properly, and may need to be wrapped in extern "C" { ... }. Check your implementation documentation
/cc @VermillionAzure ^
 
> Non-standard headers
 
@набиячлэвэлиь That is not entirely true for some compilers. I have worked with some older Sun compiler that actually did not declare stdio functions in global namespace and only declared them in std namespace.
 
@ThePhD Oh so the name mangling can do such
 
time.h is 100% standard
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Either way, he does have a point
 
8:10 AM
@wilx This is 100% not dependent on the compiler
@VermillionAzure no
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Whatever.
 
Only on your STL impl
And that's a non-standard-conforming STL
 
BTW I feel so liberated. I have an awesome internship with an awesome company and I've been hardly doing programming and it's great.
 
An nSTL, if you will
 
You might as well be safe and just ctime it.
 
8:11 AM
@ThePhD Alright, I like that argument.
 
using <ctime> doesn't guarantee safety, either
 
IIRC STL also argued against it for their implementation, but I can't find the blog post...
 
Does that mean you need to extern C {} for stuff like arpa/inet.h ?
 
it still might declare shit in ::
 
whoops
 
8:12 AM
@VermillionAzure You might, check the impl
 
Sigh.
Anyways ctime it is
...or maybe I should just use chrono
Hmmmmmmmmmm
 
8:37 AM
Helloooooo?
 
@VermillionAzure You should, if you can.
 
@VermillionAzure Did you just meh me!11!1
j/k :D
 
yes.
I am not sorry that std::chrono::high_resolution_clock<std::chrono::milliseconds> takes so damn long to write
 
8:49 AM
@Bassie Do you still like The Great Wall?
 
or when you want to do std::duration_cast<double>
 
welp noptime
 
@fredoverflow Grat Wal of USM
 
night/morning
 
> Rich Hickey is the Dave Grohl of code.
Heh.
 
8:58 AM
> I have another conjection to make
 
That reminds me of Front 242 or Front Line Assembly.
 
Many people are hoping there will be an "Alive 2017".
Since there was an Alive 1997 and Alive 2007.
 
Ven
9:50 AM
On my way to Morwenn
6
 
> Does cool things. Positively chilly in fact. My kids would say the functionality is "epic". Probably with an American accent. Thanks TV.
 
@Ven Preliminary "congrats on the sex", in case I'll be away
 
10:03 AM
@Ven I think you mistyped Mordor.
 
@Columbo Awesome! :D
 
@Columbo What does?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Heh.
 
Ven
@набиячлэвэлиь morwenn said it's okay because you're 12
 
10:10 AM
I refuse to comment on this statement
 
@Ven we know whom to report if you go missing >_<
 
Ven
@Telkitty morwenn looks way more frail than I do
 
@_@ do we get photos?
 
10:37 AM
 
lol
 
And there was the the Web 2.0 hype :P
> It's a story about community and collaboration on a scale never seen before. It's about the cosmic compendium of knowledge Wikipedia and the million-channel people's network YouTube and the online metropolis MySpace.
 
DIY guitar, I love it!
 
MySpace? Never heard of it..
whistles
 
My space, you tube
 
11:12 AM
I have been pondering whether I have been too negative until I read one of my favourite writers article.
 
user1804599
11:28 AM
@fredoverflow omg Larry Wall
 
Ven
@Telkitty no photos :p
 
 
2 hours later…
1:27 PM
nerdiest shirt ever
 
1:38 PM
I'm trying to find interesting 9/11 documentaries, but all I got is conspiracy nutcase clips :(
@Ven Love<C++>?
 
1:53 PM
I'm nto sure if this is possible.
Or rather, if it's legal.
 
eh?
 
Calling lua functions with parameters missing
FFS g++ and clang++ getting in my way.
If they encounter a byte order mark in the middle of a file they should just ignore it
When I concat multiple files together I shouldn't have to clean the boms from every file just so those two compilers can not throw hissy-fits.
Now VC++ is confused because it has NO BOMs to work with and this assumes SHITTY cp1252 bullshit
And now people are sending me direct e-mails about it awdjhawdkwad
Time to just replace all the unicode with hex sequences.
 
2:10 PM
... why are you concatenating multiple source files together?
 
Anyone here ever looked for a job for a junior?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You mean getting another person a job?
 
Interesting story, but I have no relevant experience :(
 
Thanks anyway
 
2:26 PM
@Puppy It's a header-only library. For convenience of distribution, we glue all the headers together.
I fixed it by turning everything into hex sequences.
 
hmm
 
2016, still can't have compilers do the right thing.
Or any text encoding anything.
 
2:46 PM
@JerryCoffin Okay. I will post an link alone
 
Ell
@ThePhD baaad
Can't you just ship them in a flat directory?
 
3:02 PM
@Ell We do that already.
 
3:34 PM
@ThePhD Well, I'm pretty sure that Unicode actually forbids the use of BOMs except at the start.
 
Ell
4:08 PM
@ThePhD so why do you need to concatenate them?
 
Ease of distribution.
Single header distribution >> everything else
 
Ell
How is that any easier than supplying them in a flat directory?
I guess there's no unzip stage
 
A single file is always better than a folder.
By virtue of being one thing with no dependencies whatsoever.
 
Ell
It's such a negligible difference though :V
 
You would be surprised how many people cannot handle git clone.
 
4:11 PM
... theres a dl as zip button
ffs
 
Also hard for people.
 
"Stop sucking so hard."
./close-issue.exe
 
Ell
@ThePhD if they can't handle that they can't handle programming
Or using a word processor
 
@Ell Doesn't stop them from sending me an e-mail or giving a report somewhere and saying sol2 was very, very hard to set up.
 
Ell
Aghh
 
4:18 PM
Ignore them vOv
 
Ell
^this
Or have instructions in README
 
Seriously, its header only ffs.
if they cant handle that then sorry its their problem not yours
 
Ell
Agreed
 
not listening to feedback is a great way of not gaining users though
 
@milleniumbug *valid feedback
"your header only library is too complicated" is not valid, i used sol2 in the past, it took me like a few minutes and i had the examples running. its not hard to setup
git clone, add to additional include directories, boom
 
4:20 PM
I guess these people haven't used any other library
so it's hard because they're not used to it
 
Thats not really his problem though is it?
 
Sort of is.
For example, my group member was the one to test/use Sol2 while I developed all the features. C++ was not their strongsuit, so it took them 5 hours to get set up.
That information went into the final report.
 
Your job is to make a library that works and is easy to you. Youve done both of these things. The fact that they have no experience using libraries at all is not your problem.
 
And was blamed on my library being hard, so.
 
@ThePhD I disagree on that. I mean, it shouldn't have been blamed on your library. If an experienced C++ dev had trouble setting it up fine, but if a noob has trouble it doesn't mean your library is to blame.
 
Ell
4:24 PM
@ThePhD if somebody is not a c++ dev
Then
 
vOv You have to remember this is marketed at gamedevs. I can't expect them to be savvy with even their own tools.
 
You can always make a more comprehensive readme but thats about it.
 
Ell
@ThePhD that's the sad truth I guess
 
@ThePhD I'm a gamedev and I set it up so... fu :P
 
Ven
@fredoverflow please don't nabija us
 
4:26 PM
@Borgleader Yes please.
 
@Ven Post to lounger-face youll be safe :P
(if you take ego-portraits that is)
 
why is it illegal to use void main() in global namespace?
 
user406009
Because everything is expecting int main
 
because return type of main must be int
 
user406009
So void main screws everything up.
 
4:31 PM
@DeNiSkA see here
 
Ven
My ego is the raison I don't have pictures of myself.
 
Need to remember how constexpr classes work
 
5:18 PM
hey guys
can anyone explain to me this sentence
"The object module of our sample program is then linked together with at least two library
object modules, one for the standard function printf() and the other containing the
code for program termination. "
it is a little bit confusing the word "other" he is refering it to what ?
 
Ven
The 2nd library it's linked to.
As per english reading rules(TM)
 
exactly
so we have 3 object files right ?
 
well yeah
yours, printf one and program termination one
 
okay here we are
what is object file of program termination one ?
 
Bah, a little late because we've already started, but Jon Kalb, Michael Caisse and I are doing a live stream about C++ stuff right now. slashslash.info/cppchat
 
5:24 PM
dunno I'm just reading the quote you posted
 
it is taken from a book
I also posted a question but it is downvoted
still not get why ?
-3
Q: Object module for program termination?

MeninxI have read from the book Memory as programming concept in C and C++: The object module of our sample program is then linked together with at least two library object modules, one for the standard function printf() and the other containing the code for program termination. so for a code...

 
because we have no idea what you're actually asking there
 
I thought maybe there is another object file which is tiled to every program
and which concerns the termination program
 
the context is missing here
 
I provided the code used by the book
 
5:28 PM
which is irrelevant because you're asking what happens after compilation
by context I mean "what kind of platform is this book targeting"
because this is definitely your regular hosted implementation
 
he did not specify which platform
 
So it's bullshit
because such things are 100% tied to platform and they're implementation specific
 
got it
he did not delve too much into the details
he is just stating what are the phases that lead from source file to executable program
 
On your typical Linux environment, you compile your source files, get object files corresponding to the source files, and these object files are used by linker to generate your executable
 
exactly
 
5:34 PM
Linker links your object files, third-party libraries if you asked for them, and the runtime, which is platform specific
 
exactly
anyway it is a little bit confusing
 
In case of g++, on Linux, runtime consists of glibc and libstdc++
 
still dealing with how creating an executable file
 
glibc has the code that's run before your main(), after main(), printf() and every other C standard library function
 
yes
 
5:36 PM
so even if the original statement is true, it's not true on Linux
and it doesn't make sense outside the specific platform it's relevant to
 
nwp
how much market share does windows have on desktops and laptops? 95%? And those 5% others probably don't read the book. My guess would be that the target platform is windows + the current VS from when the book was released.
 
except this isn't true on Windows either
I'd bet my money on it being some embedded platform
 
nwp
I would expect books specific for embedded platforms to say that in their title
 
I can't see the posted question, but I'm very curious why we're guessing the context here... apparently this book seems to have snippets available for preview on Google books and mentions Windows and UNIX
 
here is the posted question
-3
Q: Object module for program termination?

MeninxI have read from the book Memory as programming concept in C and C++: The object module of our sample program is then linked together with at least two library object modules, one for the standard function printf() and the other containing the code for program termination. so for a code...

 
5:51 PM
Oh I see it in history... just can't actually pull it up (you don't need to repeat things in channel)
 
hmmm, they're actually referring to the a.out format
 
I'm not personally interested in addressing the question therein... just contributing that the book can be seen
 
I was really confused by that sentence
 
we are too
I can only assume what the author meant
no
 
that has been a long time ago
 
5:55 PM
@SunMaungOo Ask a question on SO.
 
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