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12:07 PM
@Morwenn Hehe
 
Something beeped but I cannot find what.
1st World problems (TM)
 
@Morwenn what you did there. I see it. /cc @TonyTheLion
 
12:24 PM
Does the latest MSVC have noexcept?
(And does it have it on std::exception::what instead of throw()?)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Has noexcept, but no specifier on what, it seems.
 
Ewwwwwwwww
FFS
 
Xeo
and throw() on all other members
 
TIL facets indeed do refcounting. Thanks, @Rapptz
 
Xeo
12:27 PM
if I'm tracing this correctly
 
Guys do you know about any windows program capable of "compiling" entire websites. What I mean with compiling is that I want a program to remove all comments, unessesary spaces and shorten all variables
 
So now I need even more #ifdef branches for this?
UGH
You peeps who keep asking me to support MSVC for this or that, this is the pain I have to deal with.
 
Xeo
Fun thing: if _HAS_EXCEPTIONS == 0, it has an alternative implementation that does have what() noexcept
:D
> virtual char const* what() const
 
Can't even derive from std::exception without compiler detection macros even if I'm only supporting MSVC, and even if I'm only supporting a single version of MSVC.
FUCK THIS SHIT
 
amsvc'sstd::exceptionsayswhat()
2
 
12:29 PM
@Xeo This. Is. Horrible.
Playing around with interface breaking changes like this is not acceptable.
 
@JohanSundman i.e. minification
2
 
Okay thanks
 
@Xeo Jesus fuck. Does this mean that: at some point they added throw() to it because the compiler didn't have noexcept, then removed throw() when the compiler started supporting noexcept, but didn't add noexcept?
How. Why. For whose benefit.
 
@wilx It happens quite often when using BipComposer.
 
@Morwenn It was just Badoo I left open.
 
12:37 PM
Apparently I'm 1cm smaller and 8kg lighter than the average French girl.
 
#ifdef _MSC_VER
#   define NONIUS_NOEXCEPT throw()
#else
#   define NONIUS_NOEXCEPT noexcept
#endif
I had this. Now I need to add a version test that #defines NONIUS_NOEXCEPT to be blank, and in the future it will yet an extra test to make it actually noexcept.
Well done.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes #ifdef _MSC_VER
# define noexcept throw()
#endif
 
lolno
 
:-)
 
12:46 PM
wouldnt work long anyways - if at all. MSVC has a header that checks if keywords are #defined and then emits an #error
 
#ifdef _MSC_VER
#   if _MSC_VER < 1900 //?
#       define NONIUS_NOEXCEPT throw()
#   elif _MSC_VER < 2000 //?
#       define NONIUS_NOEXCEPT
#   else
#       define NONIUS_NOEXCEPT noexcept
#   endif
#else
#   define NONIUS_NOEXCEPT noexcept
#endif
HOW IS THIS A THING.
 
hmmm I wonder if I can have both throw() and noexcept on a single function declaration
 
WTF. I just wanted to look up an acronym I found ("ftsloJ") - and what I found was this: fuck-the-skull-of-jesus.mit.edu
 
lol @ .mit.edu
 
Oh, they use _THROW0 and _NOEXCEPT macros in their stdlib.
get_terminate is _NOEXCEPT, but exception::what is _THROW0.
vOv
No, wait, Xeo is right.
exception::what is neither.
There's another entire implementation of std::exception based on some RC_INVOKED macro.
_NOEXCEPT is either throw() or noexcept, depending on _HAS_EXCEPTIONS. WTF
So if you disable exceptions, certain things become throw(), for some reason.
Does anyone have VS2013 and can confirm std::exception::what is throw() in it?
Oh, TIL. You can override with more restrictive exception specifications.
Phew.
 
1:01 PM
"Hello" == 'Hello'
What would that return?
 
what language
 
@JohanSundman compile time error
 
it wouldn't compile
 
Oh alright
 
1:03 PM
@JohanSundman Why dont you just try it?
 
Good question
I've got this problem where I want to detect if a char is equal to a single quote. char == "'" dosn't work and neither does char == ''' so i'm just wondering if someone could help me detect it
 
that said "hello"s == "Hello"s would return false... assuming your're using a compiler that supports user defined literals
but it would be very inefficient for your use case
 
I'm using visual studios 15
studio 2015*
 
the next question is a single quote in what character set?
 
@JohanSundman You can edit messages by pressing up arrow on your keyboard
 
1:09 PM
Alright
I honestly don't know
The default I guess
 
so a reminder that in C++ everything is just binary data, it's up to you to make sure that it's the RIGHT TYPE of binary data
 
I'll keep that in mind, thanks
I'm very new to c++ and don't really have alot of programming experience on top of that
 
@JohanSundman Define "doesn't work".
 
FYI your answers are most likely already answered elsewhere, see C++ FAQs and most voted C++ questions
 
1:13 PM
So, VS2015 is _MSC_VER 1900, right?
 
the more new to the language you are, the more likely you'll encounter a problem many others have encountered already
 
Operand types are incompatible ("char" and "const char*") is all it says
 
well yeah
 
Very true I should look up a forum or something
 
IME copying and pasting the compiler error into google does wonders
 
1:16 PM
I am now mildly curious if you can even do u8"Hello"s
and yet too lazy to go and try it
 
@Mgetz Why wouldn't you?
 
@JohanSundman Looking up forums is so 2003.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes would depend on the parsing order, do you parse the prefix or suffix last
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes
 
As a horrible JS programmer i'm confused
 
1:18 PM
@Mgetz yeah you can
 
@Mgetz I'm confused as to why that matters.
 
@JohanSundman there are different kinds of string literal in c++ to represent different encodings. u8 is used to indicate utf-8 encoding.
 
u8 only affects the contents of the literal.
 
Well how do I figure out which kind my string is?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because if the UDL is parsed first then the u8 prefix is malformed
 
1:21 PM
@Mgetz Er, no, it isn't. It's before a string literal, thus ok.
 
@JohanSundman on windows the default string encoding is whatever the currently running user's ANSI code page is
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're missing my point, I was positing a hypothetical that the committee might have been stupid about the prefixes
 
the "regular" string literal has whatever encoding your compiler decides it has
 
Well how do I change ecoding for my string?
 
Famous last words.
 
Do I just type u8 before my string or var?
 
1:22 PM
@JohanSundman read this. The first part's most relevant.
 
Thanks
 
and then bookmark the website. It's unspeakably useful.
 
@JohanSundman If you're new, you probably shouldn't bother.
 
@JohanSundman a note that on windows the L prefix is UTF-16 and moreover that is very often the expected input to almost all windows APIs that take strings
 
it's the sort of documentation you always wanted to have
 
1:24 PM
Guys I think i've come further away from a solution to my problem, but thanks for trying to help a dumb soul like me
I will look into the page @jaggedSpire
 
@JohanSundman I would say that you're realizing the depth of difference between C++ and most other languages. Most languages abstract this whole issue away from you, but C++ does not.
 
I will look into the @jaggedSpire
 
@Morwenn be careful, for you may find the jaggedSpire looking back
 
1:39 PM
template <typename T>
inline void keep_memory(T* p) {
    *p = *p;
}
Facebook's benchmark lib uses something like this.
 
Isn't that a website?
 
also a company
 
Looks bad if T is a type with custom op=.
 
Doesn't websites use languages like php and ruby
 
Any ideas how to improve it?
Meh, I think it's hopeless.
 
1:40 PM
@jaggedSpire I was looking back to see if you were looking back at me looking back at you.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes parens get around that IIRC you should be able to do (*p) = (*p)
 
*reinterpret_cast<char*>(p) = *reinterpret_cast<char*>(p); :D
 
@JohanSundman Even if that were the case, consider that Facebook also has iPhone and Android apps.
@milleniumbug Ooooooh, actually...
 
long story short... as a stdlib maintainer... they know all the hacks around that crap
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh right forgot about that
 
1:42 PM
@Mgetz Er, no.
Still uses the custom op=.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not sure if even legal if non trivial layout
sadly
 
@milleniumbug That doesn't seem that bad.
@milleniumbug Just need it to be legal in MSVC, since this is for the MSVC-specific implementation.
 
@milleniumbug Well, even if not, it doesn't actually change anything
except if you race it
 
I just need to read and write to that memory (after #pragma optimize("", off), of course), I don't care what.
 
but that's UB in and of itself
 
1:45 PM
AFAIK MSVC is fairly lenient with reinterpreting, so you're in "good" company
unlike gcc
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just pinged STL to see if he knew any workarounds, I'll ping you if he responds anything useful
 
Actually, even using a non-custom op= might be bad for big types. Any unpredictable overhead is bad.
 
Ell
@milleniumbug that was my first thought too :P
 
reinterpreting to char touches the memory and has predictable overhead since it's always the same size read/written.
Predictability was also the reason I had to write my own inefficient std::function.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not to mention that class pointers are not guaranteed to be sizeof(char*)
 
1:49 PM
@Mgetz In MSVC?
 
Yup, in fact MSVC is notorious for them NOT being sizeof(void*)
 
Xeo
@Mgetz Whut?
you mean member pointers?
 
@Mgetz I think you're thinking of member function pointers, which are not pointers.
 
@Mgetz WAIT WHAT
HOW CAN POINTERS NOT BE THE SIZE OF POINTERS
 
Xeo
Member pointers
they're special
 
1:50 PM
Are you high
yes
and not pointers
That I know
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Certain architectures have more than one pointer size.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no pointer to instance could be up to 16bytes or longer on some platforms
 
Which platforms does MSVC support that are like that?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes okay, how does converting T* to void* work, then
 
I thought they only did x86 and x64.
@набиячлэвэлиь void* has to be big enough to stand for any other pointer.
 
Xeo
1:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Doesn't that violate the standard or something?
aren't you allowed to roundtrip through char* too?
 
well it doesn't change shit since you're reinterpreting the pointer, not the memory the pointer is in
 
@Xeo That only forces char to be that big as well.
Also interesting, such conditions would make static_cast<T*> and reinterpret_cast<T*> actually generate code and not be no-ops.
@набиячлэвэлиь Say, some machines can only do word-addressing, so in order to address specific bytes, you need a pointer (to a word) + an offset.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes does any architecture actually do that?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes neat
 
1:56 PM
@ratchetfreak The only ones I'm aware of are DSPs.
Cursory Google also found this:
The CDC 6600 was the flagship mainframe supercomputer of the 6000 series of computer systems manufactured by Control Data Corporation. The first CDC 6600 was delivered in 1965 to the CERN laboratory near Geneva, Switzerland, where it was used to analyse the two to three million photographs of bubble-chamber tracks that CERN experiments were producing every year. In 1966 another CDC 6600 was delivered to the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, part of the University of California at Berkeley, where it was used for the analysis of nuclear events photographed inside the Alvarez bubble chamber; for cooling...
:D
 
@Xeo via static_cast yes (insofar as it's not a function pointer), but you have to go through void* first, reinterpret_cast can do weird things
 
Oh, I forgot!
The PDP-11 is a series of 16-bit minicomputers sold by Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) from 1970 into the 1990s, one of a succession of products in the PDP series. The PDP-11 had several uniquely innovative features, and was easier to program than its predecessors through the additional general-purpose registers. The PDP-11 replaced the PDP-8 in many real-time applications, although both product lines lived in parallel for more than 10 years. In total, around 600,000 PDP-11s of all models were sold, making it one of DEC's most successful product lines. Its successor in the mid-range minicomputer...
Of course, good ole PDP-11s.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes still used at a LOT of nuclear plants
 
WhatsApp is so fucking poor
Why can't just everyone use Discord
Why this crap that just doesn't work when your phone has no access point
(Or is broken af as in my case)
 
How do you want to send messages across the Internet without Internet access?
 
2:02 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes quantum teleportation
 
Ethernet?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Who said I have no internet access
There is no WiFi available to my phone
is what I meant
 
What's the relevance of an "access point" then?
 
nwp
whatsapp/discord should not know anything about access points or ethernet
 
And AFAIK, they don't care.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes My. Phone. Cannot. Connect. To. An. Access. Point.
Thus has no internet.
 
2:04 PM
Oh, you mean to use it from the browser?
 
@nwp WhatsApp requires that your phone be online.
@R.MartinhoFernandes WhatsApp? You can, but your phone still needs to be connected for WhatsApp web
 
Telegram <3
@Columbo Yeah, I got that now.
I hope the Telegram guys decide to allow federation.
 
I hope the WhatsApp guys fuck a chick that has no smartphone
 
looks like that if you have no friends, you can save on phone bills
 
2:28 PM
Yo @Morwenn
 
@Columbo Hey :)
 
@Morwenn What's happening?
 
What do you mean?
 
How are you doing, how's stuff, how's life
 
Oh, well. Not much. I'm going to Japan Expo tomorrow and I might see Ven :)
What about you?
 
2:31 PM
Bittersweet lovelornness
 
#if defined(__COUNTER__) && (__COUNTER__ + 1 == __COUNTER__ + 0)
#define BENCHMARK_PRIVATE_UNIQUE_ID __COUNTER__
#else
#define BENCHMARK_PRIVATE_UNIQUE_ID __LINE__
#endif
This is clever.
 
@Columbo loverlornness?
Oh, I didn't know that word. Too bad :/
 
Not as bad as lovelornness :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes Except actually great nipples.
 
@Columbo Probably. I have yet to experience that ^^'
 
@Morwenn Must be young then?
 
2:36 PM
I could be younger, but I wouldn't be considered old.
 
Twenties then
 
24
 
@Columbo aren't you like 20 yourself?
 
3:05 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why? Is expression evaluation order inside preprocessor defined?
 
@wilx No.
__COUNTER__ isn't standard, anyway.
But the macro effectively tests whether __COUNTER__ exists and behaves like that.
s/the macro/that code/
Interesting, _ReadWriteBarrier is deprecated in favor of std::atomic_thread_fence.
 
Do class objects in C++ have access to private members of other class objects of the same type, like they do in C#?
 
Is there a name for such "visibility?"
Or is it just something that OO languages do?
 
If I need to describe in a context where it's not clear (e.g. when Ruby might be involved as well as C++), I use "class-visible" for C++-style and "instance-visible" for Ruby-style.
@RobertHarvey Most of them do it that way, AFAIK.
 
3:17 PM
OK, thanks.
 
Two exceptions I know: Python has no private visibility, and Ruby's private is limited to the specific object.
Since I don't Ruby, for most contexts I discuss in, "private" means the C++-style.
 
Remember I said this a few hours ago, now here is today's chart ... you can match the time points. I am such an oracle </shameless_self_promotion>
 
One thing that I do find annoying is that protected doesn't have the same property.
 
3:46 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Scala has private[this] for instance-visibility.
 
4:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...and the PDP-10, and the Cray 1, and the Burroughs B5x00, etc.
 
Little-known fact: GCC lets you define a 33-bit integer type https://t.co/kLwr7AEfk7
@fredoverflow Scala has private[pretty much any scope you want] because it's not shit
 
@RobertHarvey Don't know of a name for it, but it is pretty common among the statically oriented OO languages. OTOH, it's not true of (for one obvious example) Smalltalk.
 
Does Smalltalk have visibilities?
@набиячлэвэлиь Funny, can't do the same for, say, a 31-bit type.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes and no. It doesn't let you control visibility. Member variables are always private and member functions are always public. Somewhat like Python, there is a convention (that isn't enforced by the compiler) for writing member functions that the outside world shouldn't (at least normally) use.
 
Ven
@Morwenn sure hope so :)
 
4:08 PM
user image
10
 
4:50 PM
@StackedCrooked lol at Shokugeki no Souma
 
5:01 PM
Great. In order to increase docker container image size, one needs to not only set an option in the daemon, but also delete all containers and all images and rebuild everything from scratch.
Any complaint about this on the issue tracker is closed by telling you to follow the procedure outlined in the docs (which includes rm -rfing docker's directory, without any warning)
I guess docker is also maintained by idiots.
 
@Telkitty 19
 
5:19 PM
@Mysticial the sin is writing Java, cos C++ is better :P
SO tells me I didnt lose any rep today, yet yesterday I was at 11240, no im at 11239 =/
muh multiple of 5 :(
 
@Mysticial SS for repless fags?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Years ago, there were lots of conspiracy theories about Microsoft gaining dominance primarily via anti-competitive practices. While there's no question (in my mind) that they did engage in some anti-competitive practices, I still believe that most of it came down to one simple thing: although they did shoot themselves in the foot at times, they did it with (somewhat) lighter weapons than most of their competitors. IMO, that's close to the whole story.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I can't SS while I'm at work.
 
<insert sadfaec here>
 
@Borgleader Keep a handful of unimportant answers that do affect your rep modulo 5 because they have uncapped downvotes, or they push you over the cap for that day. Then when your rep becomes not a multiple-of-5 for whatever reason, you can fix it by deleting/undeleting the right combination of those answers.
 
nwp
5:27 PM
@ThePhD Did you know Sol2 was mentioned on cppcast #62? Specifically around minutes 15:10 and 20:00.
 
Personally, I have 5 of these "rep-tweaker" answers. Four of them are -8 upon deletion. That's sufficient to always keep my rep a multiple of 5.
Unfortunately, I don't have any answers that affect my rep modulo 2. So I can't lock my rep to be divisible by 10.
 
Ven
6:00 PM
@Borgleader you downvoted? :p
 
6:15 PM
@Ven Not today no. And if I did the rep thing should show me a -1, but it says I have no changes for the last two days, but last night I was at 11240 and now I'm not.
I suspect an answer I downvoted a while ago that was deleted got undeleted and so it shows the -1 for the original date and not for today
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow which is important w/ variance and mutable variables :)
 
user1804599
class C[+T] {
    private var x: T // error
    private[this] var x: T // ok
}
 
@Borgleader Seems like a reasonable explanation.
 
@Borgleader That's exactly what would happen. The people who downvoted my 5 "tweaker" answers get to feel the pain of random +/- 1 fluctuations. (unless they capped that day)
 
@Borgleader <3 <3 <3
 
6:29 PM
@TonyTheLion Hey <3
 
@TonyTheLion Hi Tony!
@Mysticial I figure anybody who downvoted one of my answers deserves to feel some random pain on a semi-regular basis (but I'm too lazy to bother with doing the work to keep my rep == 0 mod 5).
 
@JerryCoffin You should write a script for that. Whenever your rep gets off mod 5 == 0, delete/undelete to fix it. On top of that, once an hour, you randomly delete/undelete stuff that has downvotes in a way that doesn't affect mod 5. That'll piss off those users.
One catch is that there's a 5 post delete limit a day for old posts. I don't know if it applies if you delete/undelete the same post multiple times.
If you have a site crawler that crawls everyone's profile, you can try to correlate the rep fluctuations with the deletions. Then you can find out who it is and get back at them. :)
IOW, there is enough information in the public to unanonymize downvotes on answers provided that the downvote results in a change of rep for the downvoter.
Actually, you can do even more than that. Even if there's no rep-change, you can still pinpoint the person if you also crawl everyone's rep history for the day of the downvote. If they go from 200 to 201 after undeleting or vice-versa, then you know.
 
6:52 PM
CSI:SO
 
@Borgleader I've used that method a number of times to confirm a suspected downvoter.
IIRC, we did it to Don Larynx when he serially downvoted Cicada.
 
@Mysticial Oh wow that douche. Wasnt he the star troll too?
 
@Borgleader There was a separate star troll that was actually a bot. I don't know if Don also did it.
Oh yes it also did stars.
 
Oct 30 '15 at 1:19, by jaggedSpire
@Borgleader Don Larynx was the serial flagger
 
I knew he did flagging and serial downvoting. But I found a part of the transcript that confirmed he also did starring.
If he kept that sort of shit up, that would explain his current 3-month suspension.
 
7:04 PM
> The suspension period ends on Aug 13 at 20:06.
Well lets see if the apocalypse starts again in a month or so
 
Seems overly verbose. I'd go with the bool and leave a comment next to the true if it is a problem.
 
I suppose it depends on the whether it's internal code or a public api. In public apis I would avoid the bool. In internal code I often tend to be the only user..
 
Hello everyone. I am trying to build a desktop application similar to the below picture. Some coordinate system with many points to plot and read. And user would select points, manipulate stuff, calculate and view data. I am familiar with c++, c# and wpf, mvvm and WinForms. I prefer it to be wpf. What library should I go for?
 
string.replace("ab", true); // not very good
However, if there was a non-verbose way to use enums then I would always use it. Also in internal code.
 
How about some taboo?
const bool FLUSH_YES = true;
const bool FLUSH_NO = false;
 
7:42 PM
std::lock_guard<mutex> lock(mutex, std::defer_lock); // tag object, also nice
@Mysticial Not even #define? :P
socket.write_and_flush(bufffer); // hmm...
 
user1804599
@Mysticial eww not constexpr
 
user1804599
@Mysticial eww no auto
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked shouldn't be a member funciton
 
user1804599
@FirstStep Boost
 
write(socket), flush;
^ Poco actually did something like this in the DB wrappers.
session << "DROP TABLE IF EXISTS Person", now;
 
7:51 PM
@StackedCrooked Eh I would replace with bool shouldFlush or something. Especially for binary choices like this.
 
user1804599
/r/shittydsls
 
"shouldFlush"? I want to be certain about whether it's gonna flush or not!
 
willFlush, wtv works for you :P
 
Hm.
I suppose I'll just use the bool then.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked try pure functional programming
 
7:54 PM
My code is above that. I don't want to dirty my hands with pure functional programming
.
9
 
@Bassie Boost? 2d interactive coordinate system
 
8:10 PM
Boost is a whole library
Or a bunch of them I think
Does a lot that you normally have a hard time doing :P
 
8:22 PM
@StackedCrooked One possibility: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/933b7a86a53c014a
@Darkrifts That I have a hard time doing, or that you have a hard time doing?
 
me :P
Never used it before though Lol
 
@Darkrifts I'd say it's worth a try.
 
Meh
 
@JerryCoffin <insert lazy mom joke here>
 
@набиячлэвэлиь urmom
 
8:37 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь Yo momma so lazy ... nah, just doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
Laziness is
 
@StackedCrooked Dlang provides Flag template for this:
string getLine(Flag!"keepTerminator" keepTerminator)
{
    ...
    if (keepTerminator) ...
    ...
}
...
auto line = getLine(Yes.keepTerminator);
> The structs Yes and No are provided as shorthand for Flag!"Name".yes and Flag!"Name".no and are preferred for brevity and readability.
 
yo
wassup
 
8:46 PM
teh sky
 
icu
 
@jaggedSpire @Bassie's cock
 
but why would her rooster climb so high?
well actually it might if it annoyed her
because that's what roosters do. Be annoying.
@Ven hello my venny friend
 
Ven
Hi :)
 
8:50 PM
I still can't make anything that looks half decent
 
> Hello Venny my old friend
 
@Ven how've you been?
 
Ven
@jaggedSpire amazing! Japan expo was a bit tiring (and not enough things to do IMHO) but lotsa amazing people. Better tomorrow, there'll be Morwenn :)
 
@Ven Awesome!
 
Ven
Aye!
 
8:55 PM
slinks away temporarily
 
Ell
9:09 PM
I see why the unidirectional data flow is the more correct model now
 
yep.
 
Ell
It means a virtual Dom is necessary though doesn't it?
Meh ignore me actually
 
nah
the virtual DOM is mostly just an optimization I think
if browsers weren't shit you could use regular DOM elements.
 
Ven
9:44 PM
yeah
 
 
1 hour later…
11:10 PM
@ThePhD hey~
 
I don't get it...London and Greenwich are so close...but an hour away...
 
☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃ https://t.co/0eCHjZWCgK
lol
 
11:42 PM
lol
 
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