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11:00 PM
Really. That's sooooo much more userfriendly and full featured
 
@nabijaczleweli eeh I probably got occupied with sth else or didn't want to stop the music
maybe next time
 
Ell
I herd ZFS sucks up ram
Not that that's a reason I went for btrfs
I've just been interested in btrfs for a while
I never really looked into ZFS
Btrfs will catch up with zfs eventually and become preferred due to licensing reasons
 
@sehe uhhh creating an object at a specified address?
 
@Ell Depends on how you handle ZFS, but feature wise, btrfs is years behind ZFS.
 
Ell
But ZFS can never be distributed with the kernel whereas btrfs can
And oracles focus is on btrfs IIRC
ZFS can't ever be the default choice because of the fact it can't be distributed
 
11:07 PM
@Ell lol
Define distributed
 
Licensing is the equivalent of religion in the IT
 
@VermillionAzure mmm. it's tied with manual lifetime management there
 
@sehe mmmm yes polar bear
 
@Ell only if you enable dedup. Which is not mandatory
 
WTFPL license is best license
 
Ell
11:08 PM
@CatPlusPlus the GPL defines it better than I will vOv
 
@nabijaczleweli for a moment I was going to bash rightfold for saying that again. But then I noticed the handle
@CatPlusPlus define "never" /cc @ell
 
Well Trained Frisky Patrol License! Valid for frisky creatures and products only. Woof.
 
@Ell so what
 
I'm back.
From almost 2 days of driver trouble.
 
@Nooble Bye
 
11:10 PM
@VermillionAzure D:
 
Oh distributed as in shipped with
I misread
 
Ell
I won't try to argue the case for btrfs; I'm using it for the leet creds
 
Something
 
@Nooble I'm gonna smack that colon to the other side of that mouth
And retype it as :D
 
@Nooble You're not back until you're on mumble
 
Ell
11:11 PM
Which really means for the fun and challenge
 
@nabijaczleweli Give me a few minutes, reinstalling my stupid OS.
 
@Nooble Why would you wanna do that?
 
inb4 windows
 
@nabijaczleweli Because Windows 10.
@milleniumbug Yes.
 
@Ell I keep wondering if the linux kernel will ever reach a moment where there is just too much code.
 
11:12 PM
What's equally likely to btrfs becoming stable and preferred is SmartOS and LX-branded zones taking place of Linux kernel
Or more even
 
I was actually quite sad when I heard CoreOS switching from btrfs to ext4.
 
@Nican Too much for what
@Nican lol
idk why they started with btrfs in the first place
 
Ell
Its because of licencing
 
But then again alpha
 
Ell
I'm tellin ya it is
 
11:13 PM
For anyone using NVIDIA hardware, do not under any circumstance upgrade to 353.30. Stick with 352.84. I've experience around 60-70% less FPS on 353.30 for some odd reason.
 
@CatPlusPlus Have you ever played Mesmer?
 
Ell
Oracle is prolly infringing on patents with ZFS so they don't want to ask the creators to relicence :3
 
Nobody cares ZFS is out-of-tree module when it's light years ahead of btrfs in terms of features and stability
I'd probably try SmartOS if I had to provision raw hardware
 
Ell
I've never heard of smartos
 
@Nooble Upgrade what to 353.3? Drivers?
 
11:18 PM
but btrfs is so shiny
 
Ell
Btrfs on disk format is stable at least vOv
 
@Ell It's p cool
 
Ell
I wonder at what point any codebase can be considered stable
When all known bugs are gone and there is 80% test coverage?
 
Uh when it does what it's expected to and doesn't suffer from critical failures?
New Spotify tray icon is so bright
Neon green was really good choice there
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus but you have to draw a line somewhere for an "expected failure rate"
Everything has bugs
 
11:21 PM
Once you stop adding crap to it there's only a finite number of things that can go wrong
 
> SmartOS unites four extraordinary technologies to revolutionize the datacenter:
 
That IT projects are terrible at handling scope creep is another story
 
I lost interest at datacenter
 
Katt has reached the point of no difference between sarcasm and lack thereof
 
11:22 PM
Hey, I wrote a mini make tutorial; any good? compactcpp.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/2-1-building-using-gnu-make
 
@VermillionAzure CC= g++ pls ` = ` or =
 
@Borgleader Good job
 
@nabijaczleweli good idea
done.
 
nuke make from orbit
 
@CatPlusPlus The hypervisor thing reminded me of qubes-os.org
 
11:24 PM
nuke @milleniumbug from up close
 
@milleniumbug Honestly, I find it fine for what it does. Bigger systems require bigger tools
 
such clusterfuck of bad ideas
 
Make is terrible and you're not even explaining anything about it
 
@VermillionAzure Not enough automatic variables, please add all
 
Ell
Ninja is a better solution for the problem make solves
But as you point out make is everywhere
 
11:25 PM
ffs batch files are more usable for small projects
 
Good evening, Lounge
 
@nabijaczleweli meh
 
No, they aren't
 
for bigger you don't want make anyway
 
@milleniumbug I've never written a batch file, honestly
 
11:26 PM
@jaggedSpire Eevening
 
Also, I do like Ninja better but I don't have enough use with it yet.
CMake also deserves better tutorials.
 
@Borgleader Yeah something like that
Xen is meh though
 
@CatPlusPlus what else should i say
 
"Don't use make"
 
Ell
CMake is also bad
Everything is bad
 
11:28 PM
@Ell But it's extremely flexible for platforms
 
CMake is tolerable
Make is just bad
 
@milleniumbug I find CMake a bit too hard.
It's so... heavy.
 
Ell
But terrible language :(
 
lol video
Are you 5
 
11:29 PM
I was checking around
 
Ell
I just use ninja on its own currently
I only have like 10 source files
 
@Borgleader it's open source
you're supposed to contribute the video if you don't like it :P
 
and it would have been more practical since im playing GW2 atm
 
It's illumos
 
@Ell I'd do this if there were slightly better tutorials for it.
 
Ell
11:29 PM
It's illuminate, don't use it
 
I.e. Solaris, more or less
 
don't use anything made by the illuminati, yes
 
Ell
@VermillionAzure the doc on the website is pretty easy to understand
Have you read it?
 
The fun part is LX-branded zones which can run native Linux apps
 
@Ell Yes.
 
11:30 PM
@VermillionAzure So what else do you need
 
@CatPlusPlus How do I build each .o file from a .cpp?
 
Ell
Sory I can't user virtualization because I need to run everything native onto the cold metal, it needs to have 100% performance
 
Uh like the docs say? Add a rule, add a build stanza for every file
 
Ell
@VermillionAzure myoutput.o: cxx myinput.cpp
 
Fuuuck
 
Ell
11:32 PM
output: rule_used_for_building input
 
Exam booking disappeared
Fuuuuu
 
Oh hey 1.6
 
@Jefffrey weren't you done with exams?
 
11:33 PM
I want a generic format
 
I'm done on the 29th of this month, and I start again at the 25 of the next one.
I'm never done with exams.
 
Generic what format
 
@nabijaczleweli Yeah I have that
 
There's no other format
 
@VermillionAzure A what
 
11:33 PM
Wildcard rules in make are shit
 
@VermillionAzure And? Whaddaya want?
 
Ell
@VermillionAzure second one is a generic format
 
@CatPlusPlus It's good for me.
 
> -o$@ $^
 
And now I'm even more not done with exams.
 
11:33 PM
@Ell and ~~prestige~~
 
FUUUUU
 
line noise
 
@nabijaczleweli No, I'm asking for Ninja
 
@Jefffrey you'll be done sooner or later
 
@VermillionAzure Try putting object files to a separate directory
 
11:34 PM
@milleniumbug huh?
 
@milleniumbug your standard make rules
 
@CatPlusPlus That can be done already with make. How about Ninja?
 
Ell
I can't deal with in-tree build
So messy
 
@AlexM. Definitely later, given that I have to take 1 year and a half only for the last exam
 
meaningful variable names are so overrated
 
Ninja has no problem with things like that because it doesn't have any stupidity baked in
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, I find it nicer to have such things.
 
@nabijaczleweli lol
 
Ell
@Jefffrey what happened?
 
@nabijaczleweli Yes.
Those drivers are evil.
 
11:35 PM
There's no point in typing the same pattern over and over; DRY
 
@Ell It's like that for everybody
 
I don't even know how they managed to reduce my performance by more than half
 
for a moment there I thought you too failed the year like me
 
Ell
@VermillionAzure generate the ninja file
 
was ready to go like BROGGIO CMERE
 
11:35 PM
@VermillionAzure You don't write ninja files by hand.
 
You generate Ninja descriptors aaaaand I don't know why I'm even bothering
 
@Ell Using.... CMake of course.
 
Go have fun with Make
 
11:36 PM
christ this industry
2
 
or, we use Python./
 
No sense of quality anywhere
 
You have 7 exams per year, the last year the last exam starts at the very beginning of the year and ends at the end of the school year, and then you have to take 6 months of stage working 8 hours a day and then you have completed that exam. You can't take that exam if you have other fundamental ones not completed yet.
Fundamental ones are all except a couple of math and physic.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dude, I can do this with make too. What's the difference if it's Python + make or Python + Ninja? Only build speed, not ease. I might as well start using CMake.
And CMake and make are terrible
 
@VermillionAzure I thought you wanted to know how to do it.
 
11:37 PM
Ninja is more reliable and easier to deal with
 
So it's mathematically impossible for you to finish in 3 years.
Minimum 4 and a half.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, I'm asking how I might get more flexible control in Ninja
 
@VermillionAzure So, dude, I dunno what you're trying to tell me.
 
i.e. make each .cpp file into the .o file.
 
@VermillionAzure I already showed you how, then.
 
11:37 PM
@VermillionAzure By not having wildcard rules
That's the more flexible option
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but that involves Python.
 
I'm still doing this gaaah fuck this shit
 
@VermillionAzure And I don't know how that relates to whatever.
You asked how. That's how.
 
Ell
I can't believe how simple my solution to my btrfs problem was
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay, I don't like how it's done which is why I haven't switched over to Ninja. I'm arguing primarily with Cat right now anyways
 
11:38 PM
Not use btrfs?
 
Ell
I made a mistake in my initramfs near the start
 
@CatPlusPlus I hear you
 
Ell
I just tried that again and it worked this time
Idk what I did wrong first time
 
By not putting btrfs driver on it? :v
 
@Ell I always start with a fat kernel when I'm playing around with stuff like that.
 
11:39 PM
But is the tutorial alright?
 
What tutorial?
 
@nabijaczleweli Also, I believe this doesn't work if you have more than one dependency, which is why you use $<
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes he wrote a make tut
 
I never really bother with modules when I'm compiling kernels
 
11:40 PM
Oh missed that.
 
Ell
I haven't read it yet
 
Of course he made a tutorial
 
@VermillionAzure Whaaaat. I use $^ exclusively on n files (where n >> 1) and it works
 
it does work. @< is for single source
 
11:41 PM
@nabijaczleweli ohhh right
it's the other way around
 
im shocked
 
Perhaps I should use $| instead
Preserving order can be important
 
of course not
 
Good tutorial for beginner programmers
10/10
 
11:42 PM
@nabijaczleweli yeah, I had that up already
 
@CatPlusPlus TBF not all beginners are alike. If it was me, I'd have liked a no-holds-barred simple Makefile
 
I think I'll make a png file when I get home
 
here's one for free: i.imgur.com/BZuNCAu.png
 
@VermillionAzure Relationship Tricky goals
 
@nabijaczleweli That makes no sense.
 
11:43 PM
@VermillionAzure gud
 
Hmmm where should I go for criticism anyways?
I can't keep coming here; I know you guys don't like it soo... where can you guys punt me?
 
Iraq
 
@VermillionAzure Get a room ( Í¡~ ͜ʖ Í¡°)
 
Fuuuuuck
I'm so fucking screwed
 
calm down m8
 
11:47 PM
what happened
 
try alcohol im still having some of that cider i bought ages ago its good
 
I just lost 1 year of my life basically
1 more year in this fucking university
 
:(
 
so you did fail the year like me
 
FTR people don't lose years
 
11:48 PM
BROGGIO CMERE
 
*my brother.
guessing
 
I apparently failed to book an exam
 
@sehe yes I translated bro into italian
 
@Jefffrey Talk to the dean
 
11:49 PM
Yeah, you can probably fix that talking to people.
 
yep I doubt they'd let you retake the year just for that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes a.k.a. you cannot fix it
 
I've contacted the professor to see if I can get in anyway, but it's like 1% chance.
 
Mention what a lovely office they have and what a pity it'd be if something were to happen to it wink wink (this is how you do things in Italy, right?)
@nabijaczleweli Worked for me before.
 
The rules are clear "If the system doesn't have your registration, you don't take the exam".
 
11:50 PM
what the hell does it mean to book exams anyway
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Talking to people? snort :P
 
you have to take all exams you added to your contract when you started the year
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
It has implications because the system is designed like hell and they can't register a grade if I'm not registered.
It's an online system.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah they just take a pizza and threaten that they'll use ketchup on it
 
11:51 PM
Also the implication that I've lost 1 year are not clear to other people.
 
It's not exactly true. You're study will be delayed.
 
It's a "If I can't pass this exam, then I can't pass this exam this year and the next year I have an unpassed fundamental exam so I can't begin that last exam that takes 1 year" thing
 
How I wish, how I wish you were here.
 
I understand
 
11:52 PM
Pink Floyd, Pink Floyd everywhere
 
@Jefffrey so you need to go back 2 years
why do you need to book a fundamental exam lol it's in the name that you have to take it no matter what i.e. autobook
 
@Jefffrey Don't worry.
Use it to your advantage.
 
your college is weird
ever considered going to a different college?
 
Alex so constructive.
Not
 
No shit the average time for completing 3 years is 5.6 years
 
11:54 PM
@sehe if I had to sit there for 5 years I'd deff switch colleges :P
 
@AlexM. Not now for sure. I'm too deep into this shit to let go.
That would mean lose the past 3 years.
 
not really, since passed exams can easily map to other unis
 
> easily
 
Not too easily.
 
e.g. polytechnic students can come to my college and most of their exams get recognized
 
11:55 PM
Man. Have you checked with reality :)
 
yes I gave you an example
 
Also Padua is a nice university to come off of
 
what we learn at my uni is contained in what they learn at poly so it's pretty trivial to map exams between the two
 
@AlexM. In my case they didn't even map properly to the same uni.
 
^
 
11:56 PM
They didn't even map properly to virtually the same degree FFS
 
weren't you supposed to be sleeping bub
 
@Jefffrey talk to the dean like sehe said
 
Let's hear from the professor first
 
@AlexM. or whoever it was
 
@Rapptz Having trouble with that.
 
11:57 PM
how's the tinnitus?
 
@sehe whoops,
 
Not quiet but I've grown to ignore it.
 
:D
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess that's quite something
 
But I should sleep.
I didn't sleep much yesterday and I have a date tomorrow, and I'm hosting some kind of party the day after. :/
 

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