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8:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes How much home do you have?
 
Anyone know if you can disable middle click altogether on linux? I dont even know how its registered, I guess X11 forwards it to the DE
 
@Prismatic "Anyone know if you can ________ on linux?" "YES."
 
Anyone know if you can make _______ not suck on linux? :p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not with that attitude.
 
@Prismatic I don't think so if the _____ in general is too thirsty.
 
8:04 PM
@Prismatic What exactly do you want not to suck, and how
 
@Jeremy Visual Studio
 
@Jeremy I don't have time to write a book
 
@Prismatic It's not too hard. Not telling us just makes it harder.
 
@Prismatic That doesn't sound like linux's problem.
 
Though its not fair to blame 'linux' per se, just things that use it
 
@VermillionAzure Not telling you what? Plenty of things suck about linux. My drivers suck, my DE and most of its applications suck, I can't do the simplest shit without things crashing all the time. Because I can't fix any of these things without relying on other people who will never do it, the user experience sucks
 
@Prismatic whoosh
 
@Prismatic Drivers: try new ones, or write your own. Crashes: figure out why they're happening and fix them.
In theory, you're capable of solving these problems.
 
@Jeremy Its not within the realm of reasonable action. I don't know if you're being sarcastic, pedantic or what
 
@Prismatic My point is you can do whatever you want. If your linux experience sucks, you're at least partially responsible.
 
8:08 PM
@Jeremy You're an idiot
 
@Jeremy You're assuming we all know how to program low-level for Linux :(
 
@Prismatic If everything about linux sucks, why do you use it?
 
is there an argument happening
 
@Jeremy When did I say everything sucks? Am I not allowed to complain about broken shit?
 
7 mins ago, by Prismatic
Anyone know if you can make _______ not suck on linux? :p
 
8:11 PM
> Though its not fair to blame 'linux' per se, just things that use it
 
@Jeremy Visual Studio Code, a.k.a. Not-Visual Studio
 
@Jeremy It's pretty fucking shit.
 
I think the linux vs windows arguments would stop if people asked themselves why they use a particular OS over another and then tried to understand that others have their own reasons
 
I think they would stop if we just burned all the Linux distros with a flamethrower
 
user1804599
It's not Vim.
 
8:16 PM
@Jeremy That's pretty much the attitude that has kept the user experience on Linux sucking for decades now.
 
people on Linux simply do not invest in a good user experience or really have any idea how to even start with a good user experience, as far as I can tell
 
@JerryCoffin I'd want to disagree with that, but I don't have knowledge of linux pre-2007.
 
@JerryCoffin Hehe aptitude.
 
@Jeremy Wait two years, that'll be a decade then
 
@Prismatic Oh - that's true. Third party support sucks and will probably always suck.
@milleniumbug Twelve more for the plural
 
8:19 PM
@Puppy As far as I've seen, the only ones with goals that are coherent at all are the ones who've simply decided to imitate Windows (or MacOS).
 
@Puppy I believe it.
 
@JerryCoffin I honestly don't have a problem with those guys. At least they can accept that the Linux user experience is shit and they should do something about it, and then try to make and execute some sort of plan that's at least vaguely about doing something in that area
 
@VermillionAzure You deleted so quicly?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's no place like ~
 
8:22 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Yeah because we already have a reopen queue.
 
Of course we have :-P ...
 
@Puppy The primary problem I have with them is that they're setting their sights so low. Windows annoys me constantly (and MacOS is worse). It's downright amazing how much of common, everyday tasks they make manual for no particularly good reason.
 
I didn't expect http requests to be so complicated with vimscript
 
@JerryCoffin If only OSes were much better...
 
I wonder if you can get this to work on vim touch on android github.com/mattn/webapi-vim
 
8:24 PM
Quite frankly, Mac might be the best operating system to be on right now.
 
@VermillionAzure inb4 flag
 
> You need the curl command, which can be downloaded from here: curl.haxx.se
you probably need to have a rooted phone
man it sucks when you don't know stuff
 
@VermillionAzure Shit, it fails for ARM architecture mostly.
 
@VermillionAzure If MacOS were the only OS available, I'd either start on my own OS or else quit programming entirely.
8
 
^ Good point!
 
8:27 PM
@JerryCoffin Why? MacOS X is just UNIX.
 
@VermillionAzure What, it's slow, expensive, buggy, tied to bad, expensive hardware, with a crappy user experience and totally proprietary everything?
 
@JerryCoffin Hey, at least you get Bash and most of the usual Unix toolset.
 
Windows may be proprietary but I can run it on whatever the fuck hardware I want
and develop software on/for it for nothing
 
@Puppy yeah you're right.
 
With Windows you're stuck using Cygwin or MSYS.
 
8:27 PM
@NathanOsman WTF NO
MINGW MASTER RACE
 
@NathanOsman If by that, you mean "I'm using Windows but I want to pretend that I'm using Linux"
in which case, yes, there are options for emulating that operating system.
 
@wilx You could wish. But it's not. It's a UNIX kernel, but as many are fond of pointing out, that's not all there is to an OS.
 
@JerryCoffin If only they'd fix broken OpenGL support.
 
By that I mean "I'm using Windows and I want to not feel the need to hit my head with a brick every few minutes."
 
@NathanOsman buahahahahha, adding fuel aren't we?
 
8:29 PM
Case in point - some debugging on Windows last night made me really miss strace (okay, not a Unix tool, but whatever).
 
@Puppy @JerryCoffin User experience for who? Grandma or Jerry?
 
OMG I just watched German Big Bang Theory by accident.
 
@NathanOsman In which case, I suggest not attempting to simulate Linux on Windows.
 
If SUX was the only available OS I'd quit using computers
@NathanOsman No you're not
 
Why c++ allow us to override the default argument? Is that safe? I think security wise its not. Swift doesn't allow to pass parameters if arguments are default initialized

func say(pri: Int = 23){
println("\(pri)")
}

say(4) //error
say() //prints 23
 
8:30 PM
@fredoverflow "German Big Bang Theory by accident"? That sounds like an exceptionally strange show.
 
@NathanOsman Which means you're a badlet stuck with one environment
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess I need to clarify. You're stuck with those if you want to emulate a Linux/Unix userspace.
 
PowerShell is better than the traditional hodgepodge of coreutils and whatever-the-fuck-else by a long shot
 
strace wouldn't help you on windows anyway
 
@androidplusios.design ....................................................................
 
8:31 PM
@androidplusios.design If you love Swift so much, why don't you marry it?
 
@androidplusios.design Don't dump your code here. Read the rules. NOW
 
@androidplusios.design Is that a rant?
 
strace on Windows is API Monitor
 
user3790646
Hello
 
Or how was it called
 
8:32 PM
@androidplusios.design because default parameters can be a great boon but also make code easier to write. It can also make better sense based on how it's used.
 
just asking. I did it as my course in college. I am c++ guy
-_-
 
@AndreyErick Hilo ...
 
> I am c++ guy


... what.
 
@CatPlusPlus this?
 
I think there's more than one but yeah a tool like that
 
8:32 PM
and java doesn't even support default arguments :p
 
Which one specifically doesn't really matter
 
I tried Process Monitor.
 
That's not trace
 
@NathanOsman First of all, there are other ways to emulate a Unix userspace. Second, emulating the Unix userspace is hardly the highest possible aspiration. Many (most?) Windows native tools are much more intelligently designed.
 
Or maybe
 
8:33 PM
@NathanOsman Fortunately, that is not the requirement of a sane man.
 
@androidplusios.design You're poor something else than a "c++ guy"
 
I don't use that often
 
@Puppy To each his own. Windows does organize some things better than Unix/Linux.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ i didn't get you. What?
 
@androidplusios.design What's the purpose of that argument then?
 
8:34 PM
personally I like the part where you can do shit
 
Why can't it just be a regular variable inside the function body?
And you can have that in C++ too:
 
no purpose just asking my teacher told C++ should fix. Security wise its not right. Just asking you guys. You people know better @Jefffrey
 
user3790646
It was here you were born. It's here you will die.
 
void say() {
    int pri = 23;
    std::cout << pri << '\n';
}
 
user3790646
oops
 
8:36 PM
@androidplusios.design These people surely do know me better
 
@NathanOsman Eeek, linux/unix doesn't even manages desktops. There are various applications. That's one of the basic misconceptions!
 
Gnome is great.
 
I really must be the only person that doesn't give a shit about the Linux "user experience." Windows is the honda accord, os x the ferrari, but linux is like building a car from a kit of parts. If you need leather seats and wood grain out of the box, maybe don't go about building your own car?
 
Which means you're so stuck in meta you don't even recognise the original purpose
I had that problem too
 
@Jeremy How is OS X the ferrari?
 
8:39 PM
@Nooble Expensive and trendy.
 
@Jeremy Honestly, the comparison is good. But people want something better than Windows and Mac. Linux is more like a family of cars or a family of parts; some people want to assemble Linux to be what they want it to be; the successor to the big home OS's
 
@Jeremy "os x is the ferrari"? A good troll needs more subtlety.
 
@Jeremy Ahh I see.
 
@Nooble it's koala
 
@JerryCoffin Substitute any manufacturer you want.
 
8:40 PM
@VermillionAzure Blasphemy!
 
@Jeremy My customers cannot do that, (well, actually some of them can, but in general:).
 
@Jeremy Alternatively, you could just pre-assemble the car in a way that makes it not shit, instead of requiring that all of your customers assemble the car themselves.
 
@Puppy BUT THAT'S PREASSMBLING MY CAR THAT'S BLAAAAASSSSSSSPHEMU
 
OSX is a pile of poo in this analogy
And every other, too
 
:P
 
8:41 PM
Katt talks business now
 
Apple is g a r b a g e
6
 
Some of my customers can actually build cars, but cannot continually move files around and chmod/chown to make shit work correctly.
 
@Puppy That's exactly what some distros try to do.
 
and epically fail.
 
@Jeremy Just because linux is a kit car doesn't mean people shouldn't care about the user experience once you've built up the car. Its not practical to build every component of the car yourself, so you get parts (DEs, managers, applications). But the quality of the parts aren't always that great and have lots of legacy and interop problems.
 
8:42 PM
@Puppy It's pretty easy to think of a few reasons why that might be.
 
0
Q: Wesite broken, generated random number?

JeroenMy website is randomly doing really weird, i changed nothing. My the images/css is broken on my page, when I go to page source everything is fine. Then when I go to the actual file, css or png or whatever it shows like: logo.png?sbttmwjjzfrihoak main.css?tihjtifriruguked It generated the r...

Things are really getting out of hands
 
@Jeremy I don't give a shit why that might be. I only care about the output quality.
 
user3790646
Oh my
 
user3790646
not existing god
 
The components available to your typical desktop linux user aren't that great. But stuff like android provides a pretty good UX... so it is possible.
 
8:43 PM
In case of Apple things are getting out of ass
 
@Jefffrey obvious troll?
 
user3790646
@AlexM. I agree.
 
@VermillionAzure The problem is that Linux delivers a kit with only three wheels (each of a different size) and four different steering wheels, two engines (neither of which actually fits into the body) and three transmissions (none of which works with either of the provided engines).
 
@JerryCoffin This metaphor isn't clear to me. Can you explain it?
 
@JerryCoffin Oh! And because everything's "free," you need to 3D print any parts you need to get!
 
8:44 PM
Problems with Linux UX are entirely social
 
also no windshield, exhaust, or seats.
 
@Puppy or paint job
 
@VermillionAzure The windscreen washers work OK.
 
@MartinJames If only they had a windscreen to wash...
 
@VermillionAzure You're probably unadvertantly intermingling koala with kola shit!
 
8:46 PM
@MartinJames AC functionality 100%!
 
@Puppy Well, yeah, so it sprays inside:)
 
@MartinJames It works for when I'm thirsty
 
@VermillionAzure Only 'cos there's alcohol in the screenwash additive.
 
@Jeremy The parts in the kit don't fit together into a functional car. You get too many of some parts, too few of others, and (most of all) incompatible interfaces between parts, so may of the pieces simply don't work well with each other at all.
 
@VermillionAzure Drinking detergents is an amazing idea
 
8:47 PM
@MartinJames ^Probably!
 
@JerryCoffin I can understand that. Which pieces of linux do you feel work this way, specifically?
 
Unjustified use of alcohol and drugs!
 
Not that I don't believe you, I just haven't felt this way about it myself.
 
@Jeremy Printer drivers.
 
Guess why Linux distros are most popular on servers where there is no GUI or multimedia requirements at all
 
8:48 PM
Support for main engineering-related applications
 
@VermillionAzure Print, and what?
 
Because linuxers can't into GUI
 
Application support is not a thing OS delivers
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@πάνταῥεῖ It's much too complex to setup a driver for one that isn't automatically installed.
 
8:49 PM
@Jeremy Virtually all of them. For one really obvious (and ongoing for decades) problem, the X Server is a separate process with its own process priority. In reality, drawing priority should be based on the priority of the task doing the drawing.
 
Totally Linux fault that company X hasn't done a Linux port of their shit
 
@CatPlusPlus .. for each of their customers:)
 
@VermillionAzure /etc/MySpecialPrinterDevice/config ??
 
@JerryCoffin That makes sense.
 
And really the applications I use are the only reason I don't use Linux on desktop
 
8:51 PM
@CatPlusPlus agreed
I cannot run AutoCAD on Linux (I think? Wine? Actually, I don't think they can because of some weird OS-related stuff like SimCity)
 
@CatPlusPlus Same.
 
> xinput set-button-map device-id 1 0 3
good bye forever middle click
burn in hell
 
Windows and Linux are equally shit because all software is shit
 
Gnome is magical. I have 2 keystrokes for any application
 
But then there's long pause
And OSX
 
8:52 PM
@CaptainGiraffe gnome 2 was awesome
 
garbage
i3 best WM
 
@CatPlusPlus Whenever I need something my suse linux environment isn't capable of/appropriate for, I'm using a VMWare image.
 
Never had a better experience with linux than on 2.6 with gnome 2
 
awesome best WM
 
i3 is better
 
8:53 PM
never tried i3.
 
Has a better defined model of what's happening
 
i will try now
 
@CatPlusPlus Certainly could be.
 
Yeah no
 
@Prismatic Gnome3 2 keystrokes for anything
 
8:54 PM
well, Linux can certainly increase (or decrease) the barrier to entry depending on how their infrastructure and APIs work
for example if you have to ship 99999 different implementations for the various distros..
 
You don't
Ever
 
you say that, but I simply don't believe it
 
people please, give it a rest, you can't win an argument against stupid.
 
If the distro bungs vanilla linux up it's their responsibility to provide patches
 
for example, I seem to recall that when you changed CI from TeamCity to Jenkins, you changed distro and then everybody had to change how their stuff worked into that ebuild stuff.
 
8:56 PM
See: basically every ubuntu package.
 
For OSS shit you provide config hooks and repo maintainers take care of the differences if there are any (that's mostly just names of packages)
 
assuming that they actually did and did not, for example, simply decide to forget about the problem.
 
For non-OSS shit you just ship with whatever you need and don't care about what distro does
What
 
or not do it because it goes against their philosophy.
like Ubuntu's packages being obscenely out of date
 
Hmm. I was thinking. If cache locality and arrays are so sexy recently, why isn't the "ordered array of key,value pairs" implementation of maps also popular?
 
8:58 PM
Okay maybe do try learning a thing or two about things work in that ecosystem first
@Jefffrey Because it's O(n) access
 
you say that like I care about how they work, which I simply don't.
all that matters to me is that when you changed distro, I had to change how my build stuff worked.
and when I try to get packages on Ubuntu, it doesn't fucking work.
I don't care whose fault it is, how it's supposed to work, or why it doesn't.
all that matters to me is that it doesn't.
 
@CatPlusPlus You mean lookup? I'm pretty sure I can give a O(log(n)) algorithm for that.
 
It is your fault Puppy.
 
@Jefffrey if sorted yes
 
@Jefffrey Actually, in a lot of cases (predictably distributed data) you can use an interpolating search to get ~O(log log n).
 
8:59 PM
@Jefffrey So you have to choose between insertion and lookup
 
but even then you don't use ordered array of key/value pairs
 

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