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7:00 PM
And talk about kittens instead.
 
Kittens? wags tail... where where where.... me get... me get...
 
is vehemently opposed to a "Stack Overflow in Kitten" site.
 
If I had the 10 meta posts with 2 score I'd run for mod based on a Kitten pledge.
All my close votes would be accompanied by cute pictures of kittens!
 
@paul drop this now.
 
7:02 PM
One cannot voice his opinion if it doesn't fit the majority?
 
not in a chat room about python, no
 
One cannot make sweeping statements about entire peoples in here. Last warning.
 
cool down time
 
I blame vaultah personally. It's all his fault.
 
But back to the kittens!
 
0
Q: Python: del in for loop

encomiasticalProblem: test1 = [1, 2, 3] for i in range(len(test1)): #Want to do the below for every element in test1 print(test1[i]) if test1[i] % 2 == 0: #if the element meets certain conditions, it gets deleted del test1[i] #The thing in test1 gets deleted, but the range gets not ...

 
Air
@Ffisegydd That is decidedly not a kitten. It's clearly a bunny rabbit.
 
we're missing the canon dupe for^
 
7:06 PM
@Ffisegydd if any of my mates invited me around to see their "new kitten" and that was it.... I just err....
 
@davidism How did you become the lauded "*Web Developer*" that you are? Any recommendations on learning materials for python web frameworks? (can't decide between Django/Flask, and don't know much about working with SQL)
 
user2555451
Sorry, hit my keyboard by mistake. :*)
 
@AdamSmith you can take a look at github.com/sopython/sopython-site for some sexy Flask code.
 
@iCodez you meant to hit something else instead? :p
 
@paul23 Your comments would make sense if you were in a political chatroom. This one is about Python.
 
7:08 PM
@paul23 you may be interested in xkcd.com/1357. If you aren't interested in it, become so.
 
@davidism (strongly tempted to star that)
 
user2555451
@JonClements No, I was actually putting an oversized shake down and clipped the keyboard. My desk is too tiny. :(
 
@davidism ???? why did you remove my post about a topic being removed..
 
Further proof that there is an xkcd comic for every occasion.
 
Because of the content. Drop it.
 
7:10 PM
Eugh, PIL's font module isn't very good
 
Well actually I'm still interested in it; how to make sure code is never run by (bad) governments?
 
I just want 14 point arial, is that so hard?
 
@Kevin news at 9
 
7:11 PM
Actually making sure governments run your code at all, independent of which government is important to me.
 
bye
 
@davidism +1
 
(pretty sure no government wants to run his code)
 
(pretty sure his code wouldn't run)
 
(I like parenthesis)
 
7:12 PM
(thinks they're better italicised)
 
) elephant ears (
 
(I love (lots of (irritating (spurious) parentheses)))
how to make a LISP hacker go crazy? :P
 
{[(There's a set level of parenthesising in academic text actually, and it's braces, square brackets, and then round brackets)]}
 
(like this
 
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    (I love (lots of (irritating (simultaneous) parentheses)))
          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 
7:14 PM
⌈ Nobody can read this, since it is translated from Foreign ⌋
 
hey.. someone here develop for GAE?
 
haha I want my 101 rep on stackoverflow.ru, how do I login?!?!?
 
@rogcg welcome. Just ask your question, if someone can and wants to answer, they will.
 
Air
Snip. I should keep reading before I reply to things.
 
@davidism unless they're afraid the Chinese Gov't might steal their codez.
 
7:16 PM
:-[
 
@davidism just would like to know if someone would like to contribute on a project I've started..
 
cbg
 
cbg btw
 
found it out
 
Air
I... think I may need to ask a question on SO. :(
 
7:18 PM
Sounds drastic.
 
@Air Oh noes.
 
Я не говорю по-русски.
У нас есть водки и вина.
Это моя собака.
Вода холодная.
that is all the Russian I can remember to speak
 
Air
If it's anything like some of my past database-related questions, I foresee at least half an hour of write-up yielding comments about how "my" database is terrible, and no real solutions.
 
Air, your database is terrible. ;)
 
Thankfully my years of training has given be a masterful knowledge of the Greek alphabet, which is kinda like Russian. I reckon I can tackle ru.SO.
 
7:21 PM
What's the basic question, maybe I can point you in the right direction.
 
Air
@davidism Oh, the terrible part is pretty spot-on. It's just not mine, it's my employers. I was hired to fix it, more or less. And considering I'm a civil engineer... Well, you see how it got that way in the first place.
 
@Ffisegydd well, you'd understand компьютер and мультимедиа, and that's about it I guess
 
Air
@davidism It starts with a view that I trimmed down from 9 CTEs to only 4...
 
@davidism All your database are belong to us.
 
Air
Want to know more? Click here!
 
7:23 PM
Ah, this is one of those applications that were originally written as views/procedures in SQL.
 
I should learn SQL/Postgres.
 
@Ffisegydd you should
 
Those amuse me. The amount of contortion they go through to accomplish things is mind boggling.
 
Air
Less of an application than an internal reporting system that was designed 20 years ago and has been manhandled by who knows how many people since then.
 
Need to think about what we're gonna store sopython data in.
I've got an ebook on postgres I should read. I'll put it in the queue behind the other 20 or so ebooks I have to read.
 
7:26 PM
I honestly don't know that much straight SQL beyond what I've picked up by messing with SQLAlchemy. I know the basics for queries and that's about all I've ever needed.
 
@davidism that's bad :P
so basically you are using the SQL.intersection(MySQL)
 
I'm just saying I couldn't write an application entirely as views/procedures as quickly as I could write a Flask application to do the same.
 
Air
Honestly, this isn't even application logic.
It's that contorted because the data model is bad.
I'm looking at a nested loop join of cardinality 2.5e12
And just dying inside
 
DSM
That's going to take a while.
 
Air
The problem is communicating the filters on the view up to the CTEs
This would be easier if they would give me, oh I don't know, CREATE INDEX permissions
 
7:34 PM
This hits close to home, because I can think of a certain other site that rewards users for cranking out posts faster than their competitors
 
@Air wanna do something easier?
@Air come work for my employer
you have too easy problems, our problem is cross-correlated column statistics
 
Air
@AnttiHaapala My biggest problems in this job are all related to where I work, not what I work on. The technical problems just take some time to solve. We're not doing anything revolutionary in that area.
But, enough complaining. I haven't run out of ideas yet.
 
+25 for me today
Good night
Rhubarb All
:)
 
DSM
Hey, I didn't know that a calendar popped up if you clicked on the "visited" row of your user page.
 
@DSM It’s there to make you feel bad for all those single-day misses in your entire daily activity streak.
Every two months, I have like one weekend day missing because my timezone is really impractical for taking a day “off” the internet (not really a day off…)
 
7:48 PM
0
A: Downloading StackOverflow chat transcript

davidismThere is no official api for chat. I wrote a transcript parser for the Python chat room. We use it to record meetings; you can see it in action here. The code is a bit scattered, the relevant portions are here and here. It's kicked off with a first and last message id, and loads each day/time...

 
@Air the problem with us is we are not doing anything revolutionary in our area, but doing the not-revolutionary-thing-like-the-bosses-want-it-to-be-done requires us to do revolutionary solutions that no-one really ever will have heard off.
 
@AnttiHaapala So you're not so much finding a picture of a bird, you're just solving the halting problem to make your tape backups run faster.
 
@davidism you haven't yet rewritten the timestamp parsing function :(
 
To use mobile? No, I've sunk too much time in for that. :'(
 
@AdamSmith exactly :D
 
7:57 PM
@vaultah I think the problem was there's no mobile transcript, so it would only be useful for recent messages.
 
I remember reading some quote somewhere from someone (specific, right?) who was certain that in the drudgery of day-to-day coding, given the ever-present "Turtles all the way down" state of buggy frameworks, somebody SOMEWHERE has solved the Halting Problem because his boss told him he needed to and it will never see the light of day because it's in a backup script of some long-forgotten process for Acme, Inc.
 
Is there an easy way to listen to new messages?
I wonder how it's all updated in real time.
 
Ah websockets.
 
@davidism ^
 
8:00 PM
Yeah, the websockets are interesting. But they're very opaque, just have weird numeric identifiers for actions.
 
Do you think there's any use case for keeping a DB of content?
So listening to the websockets and storing it on sopython.
 
I'd rather they just make a real api.
 
Well yeah, that'd be ideal :P
 
@Ffisegydd I already have some plans, they're just slow moving plans.
RABBIT would have "start transcript" and "stop transcript" commands, so it could listen when we wanted it too.
 
We never did have that meeting, I realised as it began that I didn't actually know what to say/discuss :P
Need to think about it myself more.
 
8:01 PM
@JonClements are you gonna try out again?
 
@Ffisegydd umm.... think your t-shirt and stickers are delayed
 
@Jon no worries mate.
 
Nominations are open, I just got a notification.
 
@Benjamin I'm tempted...
 
I'd vote for you again ftr
 
8:04 PM
well, hopefully, we have Martijn running as well
 
@vaultah ah, the other problem: the mobile transcript still only has time, so most of the work in parsing dates, especially for starred messages, is still there
 
@AdamSmith 80% sure that's from the alt text of an xkcd, but their "search transcripts" box seems to be missing so I can't pin it down
 
It would make the timestamps slightly more accurate though, but only to the minute resolution, not seconds, which I know they store.
 
DSM
@Benjamin: belated, but חַג כָשֵׁר וְשָׂמֵחַ. (Or can I say מועד טובֿ מועדים לשמחה this week?)
@Jon: I'm not sure whether to encourage you to run or to encourage you not to. Good outcomes either way. :-)
 
@DSM thanks :) Happy easter I guess?
 
DSM
8:08 PM
@Benjamin: yep! This year everything synced up, so a friend of mine and I were complaining we couldn't watch an important basketball game because I was at the Vigil and he was at Seder. ;-)
 
I don't keep Kosher so just חַג שָׂמֵחַ is good, it's "happy holidays". Since it's not really the holiday anymore but "the time between the holidays" saying מועדים לשמחה is more accurate, but everyone around here says חַג שָׂמֵחַ so that's good :)
 
Air
Heh. Speaking of keeping kosher, my wife texted me last week asking if I wanted to make latkes for Pesach (she's an oblivious goy, but I love her). I said I was already planning to make pulled pork that night...
Delicious, delicious treif.
 
My flatmate is Jewish and is absolutely not Kosher. I think he eats more bacon/pork than I do.
 
I went to the beach for Easter and ate pizza while looking at the ocean.
 
Air
I should have opened a bottle of wine and done the four questions with her.
 
8:12 PM
I'm not Druish (ha! Spaceballs!) but I love latke. How can you NOT love latkes?
 
I'm really tempted to post on Hacker News saying "You always complain about how the moderators are crap on SO, well now's your chance to make a change." but somehow I don't think it would be well received.
 
Air
Even more heretical, I don't like jelly donuts.
 
@Unihedro good to see you throwing your hat in the ring :P
 
@davidism I don't think they have a problem with the moderators here, they just literally don't understand that the community does moderation.
 
DSM
Ehh, even the +0.5 I give to foods I don't usually eat doesn't move latkes much above zero.
 
8:13 PM
They definitely have problems with the moderators too.
 
@Ffisegydd Even if I don't win, I'll still do my best to help :)
 
@JonClements "have spent several years dealing with conflicts as an IRC Operator and Channel Services Admin" - in which network have you been?
 
DSM
Moderators, moderators everywhere!
 
@ThiefMaster err, that was in 2002 I think... might wanna remove that
 
Air
8:15 PM
@DSM Try curried sweet potato latkes. So much better than the standard fare. My wife's idea.
 
anyway... was "othernet"
 
Air
And it still works with applesauce and/or sour cream, if you like.
 
served my time in undernet as well
 
cbg!
@JonClements All the best!
 
@JonClements Uh boy. ( ;D )
 
8:17 PM
umm... just looking at the new summary stuff
 
@JonClements still curious
 
"candidate score 40/40" - huh?
 
Clean up that summary! Use complete sentences! Use specific examples! :)
 
DSM
Link to the any(i) and not any(i) answer! People will love it!
 
Feel kind of bad for that first nominee, comments seem pretty negative.
 
8:19 PM
@DSM or have a massive break down and sue me for costs of mental health? :p
 
yay go joncle
 
DSM
@Jon: I think that's the score from the criteria listed beneath it.
 
you and second ricudo have 40/40 badge score
 
@Antti you also throwin the hat in the ring?
 
@BhargavRao haha :D
lol
 
8:20 PM
umm, but 8 + 6 + 6 makes, errr.. well not 40
 
do I behave like a moderator
 
any(i) and not any(i) sounds like a great interview question
 
I think I'll nominate myself next year, will get my sh*t together and (finally) improve my English and overall behavior. At the moment I know I'd be a terrible moderator.
 
@Jon I agree with Senpai here. Come on mate. Capital letters and punctuation.
 
8+6+6 + 20 (k)
 
8:21 PM
oh sheesh... what am I missing
 
Air
41
A: Exclude comment flags from the helpful flag count during moderator election

Shog9Update: the system described below is live for all past and future elections Big thanks to Ol' Slim and his merry band of stats-obsessed voters over on Mathematics Stack Exchange for coming up with this brilliantly simple idea. Per venerable tradition, details on how each line-item contributes...

 
@vaultah yes, because you delete your OWN posts that are perfectly good :D
 
DSM
It's that attention to detail which will make you a good mod. ;-)
 
@JonClements see the unihedros score
it is 20 points for 20k
 
@AnttiHaapala You'll make a cool mod! (wrt to ur trash msg :P )
 
8:22 PM
@AnttiHaapala Sadly, that's not the only reason
 
6 points for 6k
 
i = iter(xrange(-1, 1)) would be my answer to that.. anything shorter/better? ;)
 
Air
Shog's answer above describes the score implementation.
 
@vaultah then you change your name all the time :D
 
DSM
@ThiefMaster: sorry, answer to what?
 
8:23 PM
any(i) and not any(i)
 
> This guy +1000. Very helpful and contributing user, super nice and helpful. Very respectful and active. – Benjamin Gruenbaum 5 mins ago
 
hm, iter([True, False]) should do the job, too
 
DSM
I don't know what we're trying to find, though. Something which returns True under that?
 
so where is that score calculation, which badges are included to that score
 
Air
@AnttiHaapala Did you read the above post?
 
DSM
8:26 PM
iter([1,0])
 
So Jon's gettin good reviews already
:)
 
Air
> 1 point for each 1K reputation, up to the maximum of 20 points. Users below 1K rep are not included.
>
> 1 point for each of the badges Civic Duty, Cleanup, Constituent, Convention, Copy Editor, Deputy, Electorate, Enthusiast, Explainer, Investor, Marshal, Organizer, Quorum, Refiner, Reviewer, Sportsmanship, Steward, Strunk & White, Tag Editor, Yearling. (Each badge is counted only once.)
 
@Air :">
 
user559633
is there a safe way to turn dictionary k:v into param=val? (i.e. not eval)
 
@tristan ?
 
DSM
8:28 PM
@tristan: ?
 
user559633
@tristan: ?
 
?
 
user559633
{'some_key', 'some_value'} -> some_key=some_value
 
Air
Hmmm... pass it to setattr?
 
@tristan where???
 
user559633
8:28 PM
on the inside of an object.
 
I assume you wanted a colon there as opposed to a comma.
 
there are 5 kinds of "some_key=some_value"
 
[setattr(self, key, value) for key, value in d.items()]
 
user559633
OH
 
user559633
disregard me.
 
DSM
8:29 PM
Always do!
 
user559633
yeah, thanks @davidism that's what i just typed.
 
that is "object.some_key = some_value"
 
user559633
cheers everyone
 
@davidism MJP would scold you for that list comp :D
 
@davidism bad! Naughty! Creating a list full of Nones.
 
user559633
8:29 PM
been staring at this chunk of jinja for too long and forgot how to brain
 
@Ffisegydd I was going to double that statement :)
 
Air
@davidism ew, using list comprehension for side effects
 
@tristan how about: self.__dict__.update(d)
 
DSM
If Kevin were here he'd have something clever to say about a list full of Nones. :-(
 
Mwahahaha!
 
user559633
8:30 PM
@AnttiHaapala also not a bad approach
 
though it does not do setattrs
so ymmv
 
user559633
i'm dealing with this interface that expects to be passing around lists everywhere.
 
any(setattr(self, key, value) for key, value in d.items())
there, no list comprehension
 
lol :D
 
user559633
passing it to attr is fine because i have setter properties for the variables i care about
 
8:31 PM
@davidism don't you think python should have consume
 
DSM
@davidism: keep that up and you're looking at a kick-mute..
 
from itertools import consume
 
I don't keep Kosher so just חַג שָׂמֵחַ is good, it's "happy holidays". Since it's not really the holiday anymore but "the time between the holidays" saying מועדים לשמחה is more accurate, but everyone around here says חַג שָׂמֵחַ so that's good :) @DSM
 
consume(setattr(self, key, value) for key, value in d.items())
 
user559633
i don't really understand why people use any(), all()
 
DSM
8:32 PM
@Benjamin: I think you're trapped in a timeloop!
 
I am, internet borked :D
 
DSM
@tristan: I don't understand how people don't use them. I regularly find myself wanting to branch on whether any or all of the elements in some iterable satisfy a predicate.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum it's all Greek to me in Finnish is ~it's all Hebrew to me, and that's quite apt right now
 
user559633
@DSM i suppose that's fair.
 
8:34 PM
Rbrb all
and @JonClements All the best :)
 
user2555451
The Caucus badge is silly. "Congratulations, you clicked on a link!"
 
@tristan what do you do instead? For loop with returns?
 
user559633
@BenjaminGruenbaum typically use a generator, so yeah, basically
 
In that case I think all and any is more concise and pythonic
 
user559633
huh. interesting.
 
user559633
8:37 PM
calling self.__dict__.update(d) skips properties
 
ofc
7 mins ago, by Antti Haapala
though it does not do setattrs
 
@Benjamin thanks for the kind comment - that's actually made my night I think
 
user559633
missed that message
 
Sure thing :)
 
DSM
Am I the only one who prefers vars(self) to self.__dict__? Sometimes I wonder if I'm using a Python fork, from how rare vars is.
 
8:38 PM
Can someone tl;dr this any/all thing? What’s going on?
 
@DSM I use vars a lot
 
user559633
@poke nothing interesting :)
 
DSM
any(people_who_like_any_and_all) and not all(people_who_like_any_and_all)
 
@vaultah That probably means you're doing something wrong though :p
 
@DSM you are more correct yes,
dict might not exist
 
user559633
8:39 PM
on topic discussion? in my sopython? it's less likely than you think
 
DSM
If __dict__ doesn't exist I think vars will explode, though.
 
what should we write for joncle
 
DSM
Tradition suggests haiku.
 
@JonClements :D
 
"5 0 days since he's widdled on the Python room carpet"
 
user559633
8:40 PM
@AnttiHaapala "@JonClements why won't you talk about the child you ran over in your car in 1997?"
 
>>> vars(x())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: vars() argument must have __dict__ attribute
 
DSM
See? :-)
I just don't like using dunderscores when we can avoid them.
 
user559633
then when it gets removed, ask for his birth pedigree certificate
 
@Ffisegydd was kinda hoping no one noticed... :(
 
Does "Connor Banks" sound like a normal name for a citizen of UK/US?
 
8:41 PM
Sounds like the sidekick of a secret agent.
 
@Ffisegydd stop reading my mind!
 
user559633
jon clements the dog
has springtime walks in the park
give moderation now
 
@tristan Did someone say pedigree?
 
DSM
Connor's a little uncommon as a first name, but not greatly so, and Banks is a reasonably common last name.
 
So it's too good/rare to be real?
 
user559633
8:43 PM
@poke oh no the brain millipedes are broadcasting my nightmares
 
DSM
No, I'd believe it.
 
user559633
@vaultah "ross banks"
 
my first thought was "umm... could be part of agents of shield"
 
:( need to think of a more common name
 
DSM
For what, if you don't mind my asking?
 
user559633
8:44 PM
@vaultah don't answer that
 
:D
 
user559633
@DSM don't worry about it
 
For infiltrating the West as part of his Spetznaz covert ops work.
 
@vaultah John Smith? :p
 
DSM
... oookkkaaaay....
 
user559633
8:45 PM
vaultah, the lady here wants to know what length of tie you require
 
Not that common :D @Jon
 
user559633
Geoff Smithe
 
@DSM I need a fake name
 
Jebediah Rummage
 
DSM
8:46 PM
Daniel Roberts.
 
user559633
Tennesee Jones
 
user559633
Turdcutter Buttqueen
 
user559633
Zoosmell Pooplord
 
Thank you all :P
 
@vaultah just use my name - then I can sue you for identity theft :p
 
DSM
8:47 PM
@Jon: do you remember when that guy posted dozens of "answers" using variants of your name?
 
@DSM that was hilarious... a dev actually went in and deleted all the post histories
 
I'd forgotten about that.
 
DSM
I remember it both for that and because it led to a change in how pandas did function interception when passing to groupby. :-)
 
yeah - it was here
 
DSM
8:50 PM
> Someone seems to be inventing new accounts simply to post this "answer", and using variants of the name "Jon Clements" even though they have no connection to the (widely-known) Jon Clements who asked the question. – DSM Jun 25 '14 at 20:56
 
widely known? awww.... shucks
hoping that's in a good way, and just not me peeing on the carpet kinda way :p
 
user559633
known to be wide, they meant.
 
user559633
eat less kibble
 
That's how you decide the moderator election: who's popular enough to have troll accounts named after them?
 
DSM
I think there was a troll question specifically aimed at Jon and one of the mods.
 
8:53 PM
@DSM yeah... shog got "emulated" - well you can see the trello board stuff
Wow... it's up to 14 already? wow
 
I’ve never heard of most of these persons.
which either is a bad sign for them, or for me.
 
think I've seen 2?
@Martijn get your rear in gear, and get your nomination up
 
@JonClements editing, poko poko.
We have a week.
 
@Martijn Are you going to run?
 
DSM
I recognize Jon; AstroCB; Unihedro; I think I recognize the name Second Rikudo, but that's it.
 
8:58 PM
I recognise a few of the names.
 
user559633
Is unihedro the 14 year old?
 
user559633
i thought he was, but based on the last message he sent in the election room, i think no
 
user559633
BOO
 
@poke I'll be nominating myself, yes.
 
DSM
Iplodman was young, if memory serves.
 

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