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12:00 AM
User Agent, the string that browser sends along with the request
If Chrome can even do such an advanced thing that every browser since 1990 could do
 
I don't know if I can edit this on my TV, might as well go on a proxy.
 
I should really just stop doing this. Of course, the single +2 answer there is precisely a rubbish answer (to a rubbish question) that took me a minute to write. On several of the others, I've spent 15 minutes - hours (the connected_components one):
 
It's an android TV but it doesn't offer much flexibility.
 
It's just, I learn so much myself.
 
do you look for stuff you don't know and research?
 
12:04 AM
0
Q: Story about difference between C and C++

EthanI once read a great story about the difference between C and C++ where, if I recall, C was like a little tugboat or a canoe or something and C++ was like a massive cruise ship with Bjarne stirring all kinds of mischief in the furnace room. Anyways I just spent an hour trying to find this thing o...

 
'void Pointer to a structure causes error 'dereferencing 'void *' pointer'. There's a surprise :(
 
I'm shocked
 
@Mysticial Speaking of this, I once read this really funny comparison between C and C++. C was described as an old man yelling "Back in my day, men collected their own garbage!"
 
@JohanLarsson Basically, I anticipate what I will need/want to learn and focus on that. Last year I've basically treated all boost questions (learning Asio, Interprocess, Coroutine, and more of Mpl, Fusion, Phoenix, MSM)
 
Good way to learn, have edge cases served.
 
12:09 AM
That
 
I sometimes want 10k to see flags.
 
It's nice to see what tripped people up. Also, it's the fast path to /inside/ knowledge (such as yesterday I spent a while figuring out why Boost Graph algorithms invoked UB if I changed the graph container.)
 
what is your strategy for finding questions?
 
12:11 AM
I take the good with the bad
The nicest thing about this feed is that it's relatively quiet
About 5 questions a day, avg
 
I answer old questions when researching stuff sometimes. Not an effective rep strategy.
 
Me too, though not so much anymore. These days that would be Python3 RESTful client stuff. Not versed enough yet
 
I'm back
 
@Jefffrey ... whirled chips?
 
yup
 
12:18 AM
@Columbo aka "curly fries".
 
lieutenant
 
> I KNOW THIS DOESN'T BELONG HERE BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT IT. THIS STORY IS GREAT AND I'M CERTAIN SOMEONE KNOWS WHERE TO FIND IT. INSTEAD OF SIMPLY DOWN VOTING, PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHERE IS AN APPROPRIATE PLACE TO ASK FOR IT!
daaaayum
 
@JerryCoffin Ahh, I remember now. I've seen such at Burger King ages ago.
@Jefffrey Yes sir?
 
It was a "yup, lieutenant". :)
@milleniumbug linky link?
(always post links)
 
The question that Mysticial provided
Oh, removed already
 
12:21 AM
@Columbo At Burger King? Really? So they actually had something that looked like food? How deceitful!
 
@JerryCoffin I don't go there anymore. I haven't been in any fast food restaurant since a couple of months.
Firstly it's expensive, secondly it's unhealthy. Expensive unhealthy muck.
 
I think I'm growing against open source software now.
 
Ell
Why?
 
... because it's Jefffrey ;)
 
Well, unfunded software is likely to be less perfect than one that is funded.
 
12:25 AM
@Columbo Last time I ate at Burger King was probably around 20 years ago or so. I have had something from McDonalds a bit more recently, but only when my wife wanted something, and insisted that I needed to eat some too.
 
Ell
@jefffrey why do you think this? Also I think you should amend your statement
 
@JerryCoffin Your wife insisted you to eat McDonalds? My wife would never let me eat anything from any fast food restaurant, she would insist to cook me something. Oh, my wife is crazy about cooking...
 
Ell
You're talking about unfunded software not open source software
 
@Ell How so?
 
@Jefffrey While true, it's also generally a lot less expensive, and sufficiently good quality for most peoples' uses.
 
12:26 AM
@Jefffrey I'm currently writing this using an open source operating system and an open source browser.
 
@JerryCoffin Well, that seems to depend on how many people are working on that software and how popular that is.
 
And they work pretty well.
 
Ell
Clang is funded, Ubuntu is funded, a lot of open source software is funded
 
Hold on, guys.
 
@Ell Clang is what?
 
12:27 AM
@Columbo We were driving somewhere, and she was hungry. McDonalds was the first place she saw, so that's where we stopped. I was just going to skip eating completely, but she didn't like that idea.
 
I know I'm "going against" something as sacred as open software. You'll need to let me explain, please.
 
@JerryCoffin I see. I thought you weren't forced to go there.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey of course :)
This is a discussion :)
 
Open source works if there are a lot of people who have the passions to dedicate to this.
This is not very common.
IME
 
Ell
@Columbo clang is funded
 
12:28 AM
Linux works because it's popular.
 
@Ell You mean through donations?
@Jefffrey Pretty much.
 
@Jefffrey It's certainly true that the quality of open source software varies widely. The same is true of commercial software though. And while the average quality of commercial software may be higher, I'm pretty sure the best open source is quite a bit better than the worst commercial.
 
Ell
By apple devs
 
Is google chrome commercial?
 
chances are the best open source is better than the best commercial
 
Ell
12:30 AM
No
It it is funded by Google
 
@JohanLarsson How so?
 
no data, just a feeling
 
You can't deny that with commercial software you can expect bugs to be fixed within 24 hours from the report.
 
Ell
With sufficient eyes, every bug is shallow
 
@Columbo Yes--large donations from large companies, such as Apple. IBM (among others) supplies a lot of funding to Linux as well. In fact, most of the large open source software projects are backed by commercial software companies to varying degrees.
 
12:30 AM
Money leads to professionalism.
 
So Chrome is funded by Google and Firefox is funded by Mozilla.
 
@Jefffrey where do you buy that?
 
Oxygen forms no bonds? Doesn't there exist, well, air, which is O2?
 
@Jefffrey HEY!! My customers might be reading this thread! Stop giving them ideas!
 
@Ell Right. That's why (for example) bugs in OpenSSL are consistently found and fixed so quickly.
 
12:31 AM
@JohanLarsson Buy what?
@JerryCoffin lol
;)
 
@Jefffrey bugs fixed within 24 hours
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin is this sarcasm? I cant tell :/
 
I revoke my last message
Didn't get the joke
 
@JohanLarsson By spending money on this hypothetical commercial software
 
@Ell It absolutely is:)
 
12:32 AM
@Columbo Reading the hover-popup (whatever that's called) helps.
 
@JerryCoffin Exactly what I just did.
 
It's why if you have a problem with the phone, Apple (or any other company, I don't know), takes yours and gives you a brand new phone.
Customer happiness is very important
 
@Jefffrey Well, I promise to provide some feedback within 24 hrs. Usually 'Thanks you for your report, it is under investigation'.
 
@MartinJames :P
I'm just saying.
Maybe if this industry seems to be full of "crap", there must be a reason, right?
 
12:34 AM
People like you
 
Well, yes.
actually.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey I want to bring what I said earlier up again. You're not talking about open source software
I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong
 
Autodesk has a funny autoreply on bug reports. Something like we may or may not look at it. from memory
 
Ell
But I feel like you're just talking about unfunded softwaee
 
@Ell I'm talking about software created collaboratively and publicly
I call is open source, but I might be mistaken.
 
Ell
12:35 AM
I don't see why it must be of lower quality
 
Rule #1 of Open Source software: you don't talk about open source software.
Correct me if I'm wrong
 
It doesn't have to be.
 
user3010322
Is rightfold around?
 
I'm not saying linux is shit.
Oh god.
 
@ThePhD He's right around the fold
 
12:36 AM
Ok.
 
Ell
Open source software is probably bad if its made by a bunch of amateurs
 
Would it be a stretch to compare free open source to some sort of communism?
 
Ell
@Jefffrey I think so yes
 
I figured you would think that.
 
Ell
Well
 
12:37 AM
@Jefffrey It certainly wouldn't be the first time that analogy had been drawn.
 
@JerryCoffin Do you consider it wrong too?
 
Ell
It depends I guess. Maybe I don't know communism well enough but to me it means people can't own property
 
Would it be a stretch to say that anarchy is some sort of communism
 
Ell
And that property is shared amongst everyone
@sehe definitely :P
 
@Jefffrey I think they are similar.
 
12:38 AM
@sehe Some kind of anarchy is a specie of communism, yes.
 
...
 
@Jefffrey It depends on what you mean by open source and what you mean by communism. Different people use both terms to cover quite a few, often widely differing, things.
 
Ell
^
 
Anarchy's mentality is particularly wide.
 
Ell
@Jefffrey have you read the cathedral and the bazaar? :)
 
12:39 AM
No
 
Go!
 
Anyway
 
Ell
You should read it if you're interested in open source vs not open source
It's very interesting
 
The communism analogy is going to take too much. Lemme see if I can come up with something better.
 
Ell
I ought of read it again sometime soon
 
12:40 AM
@Jefffrey Like, arguments?
 
Ell
@Jefffrey how about a cathedral and a bazaar? :P
 
I guess I'm just surprised there are not many commercial libraries.
 
Batsebah goes to Qatar
@Jefffrey The makers just realize that they must make them a commodity in order to make progress and sell their hardware/main products/services
 
@Jefffrey If there is a sufficiently sophisticated open source library, would it really pay out to buy a commercial license for a commercial library?
 
@Columbo Well, yes.
 
12:43 AM
It's not about the pay. It's about ubiquity and quality
 
You pay for quality and service.
Just imagine a company half as big as google. Only working on libraries.
 
Ell
There are some commercial libraries
 
They have 1000 or so employee, all working 8 hours a day 5 days a week on the library.
 
@sehe If the commercial library was, overall, not better than the open source counterpart, it wouldn't have any raison d'être.
 
Guaranteed 24 hours fixes for bugs.
 
12:44 AM
@Jefffrey Wow, that would be quite nice.
 
Online support.
And any linked service.
 
@Jefffrey How is the online important?
 
@Jefffrey lol
 
@Columbo The crux being that commercial libraries have a hard time being better than open libraries. For several reasons.
 
Of course cat is laughing.
 
12:45 AM
You won't get that from anywhere
24h response time, maybe
 
I love how y'all call him just Cat, as if there wasn't any other cat that was important
 
@CatPlusPlus right now, yes.
With such a company you would.
 
@Jefffrey Also, let's not forget about JVMs and .NET frameworks, which have been proprietary for the largest parts of their evolutions
 
Open-source projects with commercial support are not much different than closed projects with commercial support
 
Those are really rather huge sets of libraries. And they were being pushed by OS/hardware vendors
 
12:47 AM
Except that with closed ones you're usually at the mercy of the vendor
 
> "Developers. Developers. Developers"
 
Well open source sounds risky if you are selling the source code.
 
@sehe One of them being the fact that some open source libraries are improving too quickly for you to surpass them with a commercial team in reasonable time?
 
It's all about claiming market percentage, and making libraries a comodity is a key step there
@Columbo Are you asking a question?
 
@Jefffrey You're selling support, not code
 
12:48 AM
@sehe Yes. Whether that statement was correct, essentially.
 
@CatPlusPlus Not in my example.
They are selling libraries and support.
 
That's why I appended a question mark :)
 
I don't know what your example is
 
Thought so.
 
@Columbo In part
4 mins ago, by sehe
@Columbo The crux being that commercial libraries have a hard time being better than open libraries. For several reasons.
 
12:49 AM
 
Ell
@Jefffrey what could be an example of a library someone would sell?
 
@Ell Any library. It's quite irrelevant.
 
But that's not really relevant. Even if companies could, they'd still consider making it open just to be even more appealing and close to the communities
 
I would expect this company to be smart enough and don't reinvent the wheel if a solid library on that subject already exists.
 
12:51 AM
But usually companies either go smart or they go bankrupt.
So I would be pretty confident in this regard.
 
Not invented here (NIH) is the philosophy of social, corporate, or institutional cultures that avoid using or buying already existing products, research, standards, or knowledge because of their external origins and costs. The reasons for not wanting to use the work of others are varied, but can include fear through lack of understanding, an unwillingness to value the work of others, or forming part of a wider "turf war". As a social phenomenon, this philosophy manifests as an unwillingness to adopt an idea or product because it originates from another culture, a form of tribalism. The term is...
 
That wikipedia page is p irrelevant.
 
@Ell I think it's worth pointing out that libraries tend to be different from other code in a crucial respect. Even libraries that use closed-source licensing frequently (typically?) include source code. The typical user (of the library) has access to source code either way.
 
But thanks anyway.
 
@Jefffrey NIH is the reason why companies are generally smart enough to invent everything again. Even apple is now using it's own SSL library, or something like that.
 
Ell
12:53 AM
@JerryCoffin yeah true
 
@sehe I'm talking about a company specialized in making libraries.
 
lol. what company would hat be
 
Oh god
 
^ good arguments
 
Ell
Are there any berliners here?
 
12:54 AM
Sehe, what have I talked about for the past ~100 messages?
 
I've not seen a company cranking out "libraries" as a core business.
 
Some weird fantasy
 
@Ell No, but Martinho Fernandez is in Berlin
 
Ell
The former wall is lit up isn't it?
 
@sehe Have you understood any of my last 20 or so messages?
It's an hypothetical company.
 
12:54 AM
Who knows
 
I'm talking hypothetically.
There's no such a company AFAIK yet
 
I wonder why
 
Our college was evacuated today due to a chemical lack somewhere in the front building
 
@Jefffrey Apparently not then. So, why are we discussing hypothetical companies, and getting argumentative about /what is true/ about them?
 
Because I'm trying to list what I think would be great about those companies.
 
12:56 AM
Okay. I've missed the bullets on that list. I'll keep quiet for a while, so they can start flowing
 
w/e
 
2 mins ago, by sehe
^ good arguments
 
@Ell Seen how quickly this has went down?
 
@Jefffrey May I list what I think about this hypothetical compiler that remarks every single bug in your program, has reasonable and not standard-compliant behavior and is open-source?
- It's good
 
Sounds like an hyperbole.
 
12:58 AM
Agreed
 
@Jefffrey A hyperbole.
 
Damn dedup
 
right
> An hyperbole is an exaggeration which may be used for emphasis and humor.
 
@sehe The Visual Studio Gallery lists a pretty fair number of them. Some of those companies sell things other than libraries, but if you look though it, you'll find a pretty fair number that are (or at least seem to be) devoted exclusively to selling libraries.
 
> A hyperbole is a form of speech that uses exaggerated statements or claims that are not to be taken literally.
 
1:00 AM
I'm not saying you are wrong.
I said you are right.
 
@Jefffrey I'm not saying you are right.
Hold on, what?
I'm not making me any friends like this, excuse me
 
3 mins ago, by Jefffrey
right
 
@Jefffrey By quoting that quote you implied I am wrong.
 
Not at all.
 
@Columbo Although almost nobody uses it that way anymore, words that start with "h" are traditionally preceded by "an" rather than "a".
 
1:03 AM
In fact I cleared my opinion on what you said right before posting it.
 
@JerryCoffin What about Wh? Like in "Lightness is such an whore"
 
Wh doesn't start with an h
 
@Jefffrey I wondered if a similar rule exists.
 
Ell
Gosh. Why do people want to combine roads and solar cells
 
its easier to maintain?
 
1:07 AM
@Columbo Not that I recall (but my memory is notoriously undependable).
 
@JerryCoffin Same as mine.
 
@JerryCoffin mmm. Can you name an example? I tend to view these as small companies basically erected around a library once it picked up some speed (think just_threads?)
 
@Columbo ...only different. Remember, each of us is unique (just like everybody else).
 
@JerryCoffin Why are you saying that?
 
@Mikhail how will it be easier to maintain? It will be subject to a lot more wear and if you need to repair something, you have to block traffic?
 
1:13 AM
Clearly everyone is unique considering the set of knowledge or the brains internal working, but pointing out that we are all unique and exceptional and blublable is just kindergarden bullshit.
 
@sehe Some probably are. Others seem a bit larger (e.g., Telerik) and sell a fairly wide range of libraries.
 
@JerryCoffin The way I remember they started as a purely Web UI oriented shop and just spun of their in-house developed libraries?
 
@Columbo Because I like the inherent almost-contradiction of "everybody's unique--just like everybody else".
 
@JerryCoffin I thought something about that sentence was noteworthy :)
 
@Columbo don't crush my presiuslittelsnoflake
 
1:15 AM
@sehe Oh god. Just imagine that as a hash tag.
> Just got my new kittie cat! I luv her sooo much it's #ridiculous! #kitty #2014 #presiuslittelsnoflake
Oh, that is actually a common term
 
Why am I allowed to break const correctness here?
 
> Child of extremely overprotective and/or self-absorbed parents. Coddled from birth, their mommy and daddy will get stupid, ludicrous rules added or changed because they cannot fathom the idea that their kid might have to learn humility. Often turn out to be stuck-up, spoiled pains in the ass because they get everything they want.
Sounds like the definition of my little brother. No, seriously.
 
@sehe I don't know their history well enough to comment on it meaningfully. They're hardly the only example though. For another example, LeadTools has been around for decades. I talked to them years ago, and at that time, it was apparently at least a 3-person company anyway (but I've no idea how much bigger than that they might be/have been).
 
They can hardly claim to be the world leader of imaging SDKs if they consist of three people?
 
@Maxpm const-ness is shallow in C++.
 
1:22 AM
Of course, it's always possible it was a guy, his wife and his son (or whatever)--I was talking to them about the library, and only know there were three people because I (think I) recall talking to at least three different people.
@Columbo It's pretty easy to make all sorts of meaningless claims, regardless of company size.
 
@Columbo If theres no competition, they could.
 
@JerryCoffin It seems weird that you talked to three guys about this library that we now coincidentally mentioned.
 
@Mysticial Wow. This is a scary discovery.
 
@Columbo It's not coincidental--at least AFAIK, I was the one who first brought them up in this conversation, largely because I happened to recall that experience.
 
@Mysticial I'm surprised as well, I was expecting the const to allow you only to call const member functions (member variables included)
 
1:25 AM
@JerryCoffin Ahh, that explains it.
 
If you want true const-ness, you will need to enforce it manually on the interface level.
 
I am now the world leader in empty SDKs. SDKs that are not doing anything; Mine's called NoSDK. There is no source or runtime libraries. There is no download page or website. Integration into your projects is trivial.
 
@Columbo nope thats @rightfold
 
@Borgleader Wat
You're not serious
 
you must be new here
 
1:27 AM
@Borgleader Quite, why?
 
if you werent, youd know im serious :P
o.o i just realized you commented on a question i answered earlier
more precisely, on the competing answer
 
@Borgleader Eh?
I'm going to bed in a minute, bother to share the link?
 
@Columbo I've used some of LeadTools code. It seemed pretty solid--it was pretty fast, worked well, and handled an almost amazing variety of file formats.
 
No, that is not correct. A braced-init-list does not have a type. — Columbo 8 hours ago
 
@JerryCoffin It's very rare to see someone praise someone elses software :)
 
1:31 AM
@Columbo Fightrolled is semi-notorious for starting a lot more things than he finishes.
 
@JerryCoffin Semi-notorious? So he didn't even manage to make himself fully notorious? :P
@Borgleader Oh, that. Just wanted to know if I commented nonsense somewhere :)
Going to sleep, see y'all tomorrow
 
@Columbo I don't think any of us qualifies as fully notorious. Fully notorious would be "Wanted" posters being distributed about you...
@Columbo G'night.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:55 AM
@JerryCoffin Puppy has now delivered more than Lightpolled!
 
 
1 hour later…
4:11 AM
@Ell It doesn't own the container though. It owns the pointer that the container holds. The container is non-owning.
Gah, the nerve of coliru.stacked-crooked.com to go down.
 
user2620028
Could someone tell me what i am looking for to distinguish c from c++ (I believe the files i am working with are c++ just want to make sure)
 
@HatterisMad Classes.
 
user2620028
#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include<sys/types.h>
#include<sys/ipc.h>
#include<sys/sem.h>
#include<sys/shm.h>
 
stdio is a C library
just google those and see if any of them are c++ libraries
 
user2620028
i just hate to work in this as the person who wrote it claims it is c.... and previous times i have worked with other pieces from him have been c++ lol
 
4:24 AM
If the person who wrote it claims it is C why wouldn't it be C?
 
user2620028
It is a professor... And what he has claimed to be c before has been c++ lol
 
google
 
user2620028
Oh right i remember why.... in his previous "c" program he was using cout and cin haha.
 
4:48 AM
@HatterisMad Sounds a lot like what we usually call "C with classes". And no, that's not a compliment.
 
user2620028
5:12 AM
@JerryCoffin Good to know haha. Yeah it bugs the crap out of me because i don't know whether to submit c or c++ compiling code.
 
@HatterisMad C++ will compile C code, I believe.
 
user2620028
right but the other way around.
 
5:38 AM
but it turns out it got removed somewhere
I can't get it to work!
I wasn't gonna use it or anything but I was curious :p
 
anybody know what's up with that?
 
5:56 AM
@StackedCrooked: any chance you're awake right now?
 
6:54 AM
Did the whole network just die?
nvm
 
@Mysticial SO died briefly just now (for me, at least), and also 30 minutes ago
 
7:56 AM
32
Q: How do I tell my colleagues that the codebase they've built is a total mess and their practices are ancient?

user1807The situation A few months ago, I've been working with a new team in a new company. The company offers some web services and the team's role is to develop and maintain those services. Problem #1: the team is not a team, it is a set of individuals. They do not collaborate with each other. Everyo...

^^ Reads like:
> How do I tell my colleagues that their code is bad and that they should feel bad?
 
hi
> how do I tell my Google colleagues...
@JerryCoffin 6:56 am on saturday? nuh-uh
Metro 2033 free on Humble Store
 
8:41 AM
Morning
 
@Jefffrey hi
 
What's the point in declaring a functor and then instantiate that functor to be used like a regular function? Like here.
 
> I have a pet peeve about the use of the word “functor” in C++. People keep calling function objects functors. It’s like calling Luciano Pavarotti an “operator,” because he sings operas.
 
I'm sorry for that guy.
 
@Jefffrey he's right
anyway, it's probably going around C++ functions being retarded
when compared to structures, that is
 
8:45 AM
Yeah, but how so?
 
i.e. no partial specialization, but I think there can be more differences
maybe here it's used just to keep consistency with the rest of the code
or maybe it's related to that constexpr thing
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's just a constexpr with const fallback.
 
welp
I dunno.
c++ is a weird language
 
ikr
 
hm hm hm I could add more tests to potato empires
 
8:51 AM
How is that coming along?
 
Because functors are first class functions.
You can pass them around, bind them easily, etc.
They don't decay to pointers. Their signature is mostly irrelevant.
 
@Rapptz You can pass them around to std::function and "callable" template function arguments, no?
 
std::function is for storing functions like callbacks
 
Yup, and it works with "normal" functions too.
 
@Jefffrey If this was a regular function, you'd have to pass it around by doing for_each<T, U, V, X, Y, Z>
 
8:54 AM
Oh
I see
 
@Jefffrey really cool actually
we made a move from explicit argument passing to State recently
it was pretty easy actually because all of the lenses stayed the same
we're still far from 0.2, but getting there
 
@Rapptz Now I wonder if polymorphic lambdas are implemented with a templated struct or a templated operator().
 
latter
 
Prolly the latter.
Yeah.
Thanks. :)
@BartekBanachewicz Is glisha intended to be dependent on lens?
 

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