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8:00 AM
@SecondRikudo the alt text is even better "Officer suspended from horse" :D
 
Yeah, its preference. I don't see how amCSS is anything different. Remove the abstraction of applying your styles and its just CSS.
 
IE8, IE9 @SecondRikudo
 
Lovely to work with
 
@SecondRikudo browser compatibility
 
8:00 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Dump them out of the freaking window
 
let say I have [col_1, col_2, .... col_10, col_11], when I apply javascript sort. only from 1 to 9 is sorted other is not sorting.
 
That's why I mostly do controlled services.
Fuck IE Nein
 
I get it's all just another form of organisation. I'm just coming from experience dealing with a lot of builds that have no organisation. Anything that coerces some form of stylistic modularization is A-Ok in my book.,
 
@pirabdulwakeel do you know how lexicographic sorting works?
@monners you shouldn't really be needing col-12 and stuff like that to begin with..
 
8:01 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I doubt he knows what lexicographic is.
 
@monners have you seen suit.css: github.com/suitcss/suit?
 
Also, CSS is cascading you group connected elements through nesting selectors - it's pretty trivial to do so...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That was just an example from the post. I'm not a fan of grid systems in general, so I agree.
@mikedidthis Yes
 
Am I the only one that thinks it's kinda rude to just throw a blog url at someone instead of explaining what you want to say / what point you're trying to make?
 
.menuitem
.menuitem.selected
.menuitem.selected .innermenu
Or whatever
 
8:02 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum , I will look into, but did'nt heard about
 
@monners k, so maybe find a naming convention that suits your builds instead. I see the problem btw, I just don't think using random attributes is the way forward, unless your whole team can get behind it.
 
@Cerbrus Your suggestion was "use this framework"
 
@mikedidthis I'm not hailing amcss as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I currently use a naming convention, which works for me, I just think this is a pretty good idea.
 
Even if it didn't assume I didn't know what Foundation is, you basically dumped a framework at me :P
 
8:03 AM
5 mins ago, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
Why would you need classes named something like col-12 to begin with?
"Foundation uses it"
 
How does that answer my question though?
 
Only then, I threw a link at you
 
morning all
@Cerbrus haven't you seen CSS frameworks
 
Would you have rather gotten a "I don't believe in these sort of frameworks, they're slow, take a lot of space, andCSS isn't that hard anyway" before that link which explains all this much better @Cerbrus ?
 
Foundation makes it very easy to buiild a grid page
 
8:04 AM
@monners Sorry, I wasn't saying you were :D I just don't feel that its any different to our current solutions, your just masking the declaration space.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum: Yes.
 
It's very easy to build a grid page anyway, seriously, CSS is easy.
 
@mikedidthis you wouldn't believe how many times I've been burnt by someone just whacking a generic .button class in somewhere with an important tag :P
 
'cause now I know why
 
@monners idiots <3
 
8:05 AM
If you read that blog post, you would have known why and got the arguments :P
 
meh. IMO, grid systems aren't much better than just sticking presentational attributes in your HTML. in fact, that's pretty much what they are -- they're just not as standard. :P
 
You wouldn't believe what I found today. Lemme find it again.
 
This is dupe of this?
 
After way too much time reading
 
@mikedidthis <p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt">&nbsp;</p>
 
8:06 AM
@monners printer designer :D
 
@Cerbrus it's worth reading.
 
Aren't they just the worst?
 
I'll dump it in my "to read" list
 
@AwalGarg Almost, but not quite
 
@Cerbrus look at this
 
8:07 AM
This one talks about height, this one about width. They're similar but not identical issues.
 
But hey, at least print designers respect typographic rhythm and scale
 
@monners totally. I am thankful I started in print before moving to web.
 
Good morning sirs
 
@SecondRikudo ok
 
@ziGi: What's the advantage of that over foundation?
 
8:08 AM
Oh, I didn't know you started in print
 
Why would I need a framework for grids anyway o_0?
 
I guess I kinda did too
 
It's just making divs and assigning width to them in percents most of the time anyway...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum: Create / edit / list pages for 20 different models
 
^ that
 
8:08 AM
@Cerbrus not much besides it is simpler and smaller
 
@mikedidthis Does that refer to my post or @Cerbrus 's ?
 
I haven't used foundation to know in detail
 
@Cerbrus Why would that make it easier?
 
A grid framework makes that work so much faster, and much more consistent
 
Uhhh... no, not really.
 
8:09 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum your post, @Cerbrus messed it all up :D
 
@Cerbrus and eats your soul.
 
A proper template makes it faster and consistent.
 
myWhatever { width:66%; } <- that's really all there is to it, if I want to do it inline I still can.
 
A proper CSS makes it work
 
TypeError: a.name is undefined @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
8:09 AM
the difference is that I don't have 100KB of excess css in my code base I didn't write.
 
keys.sort(function(a,b){return a.name.localeCompare(b.name); });
 
Yay, 100kb.
 
You define your product's design language once in a CSS file, how you expect a menu to look, how you expect a button to look etc and then reuse that across your website. Ever notice how in an iPhone or an Android all the buttons look the same? That's for a reason.
 
@Cerbrus ... 100kB is a lot.
 
That's really too insignificant to worry about for us
 
8:10 AM
The only benefit I see to using a full-blown framework is if you're pumping out a whole lot of sites with minimal customization that need consistent markup
 
If 100kB is too insignificant, I worry for your site and your soul.
 
It's as consistent without it, it's just less work to learn bootstrap/foundation than to learn CSS so people do that.
 
Most of you work on products, though, right? Not in agencies?
 
Even twitter dumped their own bootstrap :D
 
Also, it's not necessarily the 100kB, it's the extra request, plus learning yet another framework (and teaching it to a junior), etc.
 
8:11 AM
@monners right, but that would not change in an Agency for me.
 
@SecondRikudo: Extra request? Minifier / bundler
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Have you ever worked in an agency?
 
@monners yes, but not for the last 5 years or so.
 
Just to clarify, I'm not advocating the proliferation of massive frameworks, I'm just saying they're useful in certain high-turnaround situations. In an agency what you don't want is 20 different grid systems implemented 20 different ways.
 
You're not actually saving work though.
Unless you use the same bootstrap theme, that's the only win I see here.
 
8:14 AM
you are in maintenance
 
width:66% isn't harder to understand than the bootstrap or foundation version.
If your intent is to use a premade theme, then bootstrap is a win.
If you're actually interested in your own design I don't see the point.
 
No, you start with bootstrap, set it up so you can customize key variables, make project-specific tweaks within scope and maintain in a consistent manner
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum there is a problem with this since it doesn't exactly take 2/3 of the screen but 1% less
I really hate how 100 is not divisable by 3
 
@ziGi so do calc on 100/3 :P
 
Yeah, our numeric system should totally use base 12
 
8:16 AM
yeah, it's a period, you can't do periods
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's why it's so important to have the designers on board from the get go. They've gotta work within the constraints of the framework (yeah, I know that sounds horrible, but agency!). Otherwise it all falls to shit.
 
As I see it, you'd use bootstrap for the same reason you'd use jQuery.. your boss wants you to use it to speed up production times
I can't fault my boss for that, as much as I'd like to do it my way
 
^
 
@copy well I guess that's why time is split like that
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum it does have one tiny benefit: not having margins/padding screw around with you as much. Your 66% becomes calc(66% - 20px), for example, if you have 10px padding on either side
 
8:16 AM
@Neil but you get much much less win from bootstrap, much
 
youtube.com/watch?v=U6xJfP7-HCc for the people who recently got Internet
 
@ziGi Bootstrap defines col-xs-4 as 33.33333%, though
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's subjective
 
@cHao content-box much?
 
@Kippie haha ok, that's cool
 
8:17 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Maybe on the first and second build, but not on the third and up
 
@Neil of course it's subjective, we're debating here. I didn't claim to have god like knowledge about the objective merits of using a framework.
 
'morn
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum DON'T SHATTER THE ILLUSION!
3
 
I could tell my boss to screw himself and use my own libraries, but then I'd be directly at fault for any production delays, even if it weren't directly my fault
 
@monners I can only see the win with themes.
 
8:18 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum i've used box-sizing before, but meh.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Just so you know. :) We can debate a subjective topic all day and never prove a thing
 
@cHao well, it fixes the -20px issue you were complaining abut.
 
it always felt like i was doing something wrong
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum then consider it as a framework for building themes. It's still faster to build a theme than it is to build from scratch every time
 
@Neil I'm not saying 'don't use jQuery', I'm saying CSS is simple enough as it is (unlike the DOM which is a monster) and you can build stuff just as fast without bootstrap.
 
8:19 AM
If you have width 300px and padding 10px is the whole box 320px?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum If you have to make a dialog, I promise that unless you had some example lying around somewhere that you've already made, it would take less time to use bootstrap
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Believe it or not, not all frontenders build reusable styles. Forcing them to adhere to the rules of a framework can help. A lot.
 
@ziGi by default, yes. Plus the width of borders and margins
 
It wouldn't take much more time, but you can't dispute that it would still cut time
 
@monners so your argument is "I work with people who are not professional, and keeping them in line is important"? I can sort of get that point, but I don't believe in it - just like Java :D
 
8:21 AM
Disclaimer: I've built three fairly large sites with foundation. All of them were disasters. But I attribute that to the designers not knowing and/or respecting the limitations of what the company was trying to achieve by using the framework to begin with
 
backbone devs.
using this function in the view ->
 
^ definitely oh I thought you meant were bad like Java devs :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Humans, eh. We suck.
 
jConfirm(config.jConfirmMessage, "Confirm Deactivation", thisView.deactivateSuccessMessage;
}
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's not a point of being professional or not. You can put a bunch of "professional" programmers in the same room, and they'd debate for hours about using hanging curly brackets or curly bracket on new line
3
 
8:22 AM
@Neil probably if it's simple enough and not important enough I'd just use fancybox and it'd take me a second :P
 
Programmers are going to have coding differences
 
how can i pass variables from parent scope to the deactivateSuccessMessage
 
@Neil of course they'll have differences, but you don't need to 'keep them in line', you need to establish coding standards.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Which would be fine, should you not need to do anything else, though it might be worth your while just to be able to in the future ;)
 
@Neil I think that's the difference between a programmer and an engineer. Team work is an important part of an engineer's skillset.
 
8:23 AM
@monners you'd really enjoy that getify article.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum And how long will that take?
 
Which one? Did you post is a minute ago?
 
Kill two birds with one stone. Use this framework. Anyone for coffee?
 
@Neil well, a minute to send them the coding standards file if you type real slow, and then 5 minutes for them to read it so I'd say 6 minutes.
 
I'm going to use bootstrap in a side project
 
8:24 AM
I don't agree with that post, but it raises a lot of good points.
 
@monners Engineers don't usually have these kinds of problems, or I think it would be the very same
 
Haha my colleague said that margin is pushing the element from the outside to the inside that is why it is called "marge in", otherwise it would be margeout
 
I'm not going to write more than 25 lines of CSS per project ever
 
@Neil Must be nice... le sigh
 
I'm no designer, so I'll just use default components and be done with it
 
8:25 AM
@ziGi So correct him. don't make fun of him
 
@copy coolio, do you count applying the style to the html as writing CSS
@RoyiNamir I tried but he doesn't listen
He is from those people who are always right
 
@monners Indeed
 
@FlorianMargaine like I said - if your intent is to use a theme someone wrote already - it's fine.
 
@ziGi No
 
so then you don't do much I guess
 
8:26 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Lets put it this way, if you're paying for the program to be made, you can do whatever you think is best :)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum keys.sort(function(a,b){
return a.localeCompare(b);
});
@BenjaminGruenbaum the result is same
 
Yes , I know it's odd but I just got familiar with document.createDocumentFragment - nice one
:-)
Though , I don't know when would I use it :-)
 
@pirabdulwakeel because that's what lexicographic sorting means
 
(temporary container ???)
 
jQuery uses fragments all the time, resig has a nice post about it
 
8:29 AM
Do you gus think SASS is a good way to handle CSS more dynamically and consistently?
 
fragments for each array value @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum in future, send me these posts at the beginning of a discussion :P I wholeheartedly agree with almost all of that (business requirements aside).
 
Tnx , Added to later-reading : ejohn.org/blog/dom-documentfragments
 
@monners :D
 
I always forget which is which in keys.sort(function(a,b){
 
8:32 AM
@monners I sent that post to @Cerbrus at the start and he accused me of being a douche, so I figured it'd do more harm than good to send it to others immediately.
 
(a,b)
 
Imagine you have an array with 2 elements
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Are you sure his response was related to the article?
 
a is the first and b is the second.
Now I remember.
@monners Yes.
 
@RoyiNamir is that an inside joke?
 
8:33 AM
yes but does a-b should yield positive or b-a ?
 
31 mins ago, by Cerbrus
Am I the only one that thinks it's kinda rude to just throw a blog url at someone instead of explaining what you want to say / what point you're trying to make?
 
(for asc order)
@ziGi no jokes here
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Shit. I thought that was funny for a second.
 
@RoyiNamir imagine you have an array [a, b] with just those two elements, and you want to decide which is bigger - a or b
[1,2].sort(function(a,b){ return a - b; }) // should return [1, 2]
 
I think it is not really rude, to just throw a blog link, if 20 people ask you the same question, it's much more time-worthy to just give them a link with your explanation.
 
8:34 AM
@ziGi me ?
 
I can totally see why it'd come off as rude
 
I just read that blog
For the application we're building here, building a custom "framework" really isn't an option.
 
Because it'd take way too much time, it'd be a pain in the ass to document, we'd really have to start from scratch
 
@RoyiNamir you?
 
8:39 AM
@Cerbrus did you read the whole article?
 
You mean re-use code you've written before?
 
... I'm being thick, but why does this fiddle say ddl_selected isn't defined? jsfiddle.net/f6c7cq9n
 
@Cerbrus what kind of websites does your company do?
@Sippy it's inside the onLoad because it's in jsfiddle.
 
Nothing intended for public viewing. Management systems
Working with a load of data (grids, crud everywhere, etc)
 
@Sippy so you'd want to change that on the right hand side in jsfiddle, and also not use attributes like onclick.
 
8:43 AM
So nothing "fancy"
 
So db skins?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yep
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Assign handlers using js?
 
@Sippy yup
 
Alrighty, cheers
 
8:44 AM
db "skins"?
 
Well, if bootstrap works for you by all means do use it - I just think it's a waste
 
Here's a (rather verbose) example.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I use bootstrap for apps that would otherwise have no stylesheet at all.
 
Not bootstrap, foundation / angular
 
Guys, other than the ability to set multiple event handlers, what advantages does .addEventHandler("click", function() { have over .onclick = function() {?
 
@SecondRikudo Ah thanks. My problem now is I can't recreate my freakin error. Haha
 
8:48 AM
@SecondRikudo sane scoping, probably perfromance
 
It doesn't overwrite existing onclick,s @SecondRikudo
 
I'm trying to do exactly that, but when I 'unhide' the row, it renders the whole row inside a td for some reason
 
@SecondRikudo I believe nothing you'll ever encounter
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sane scoping? How is the scoping different from .onclick's?
@Cerbrus Other than the ability to set multiple handlers.
 
Morning chaps
how can I force 1 function to only run when another function is finished excecuting
 
8:51 AM
@CustomizedName function1(); function2();?
Or are we talking about async?
 
@SecondRikudo 3rd argument too
 
@SecondRikudo addEventListener?
 
@SecondRikudo yup, function2 has a asynch call, at the moment I fixed the issue by calling function1 when a request in function2 is done with a response, not sure if it's the best way though
 
@CustomizedName jsfiddle.net/80uj3t50
Bug @BenjaminGruenbaum for more details.
 
@SecondRikudo I wonder why JS developers use TimeOut function a lot, what if server doesn't returns response within 2 seconds then what going to happen :)
 
9:00 AM
@CustomizedName Nothing :)
 
this is what I was really after

 $.when(taskOne, taskTwo).done(function () {
      console.log('taskOne and taskTwo are finished');
  });
I wasn't sure if this even exists to be honest
but it's my fault as I was asking function1 needs to be excecuted after function2
I just figured out we can execute 2 functions parallel and then use there result to go further :)
 
MGE
Hello, I don't know why this isen't work: jsfiddle.net/hsy57g9u/1
but if I put
alert(number_format(125500, 0, '', ','));
under the function, it works
 
@MGE jsfiddle puts links in the onload section
 
MGE
lol
thx
 
!!learn jsfiddle_sad "<> JSFiddle puts your code in a window.onload = function() {.. by default so inline scripts won't work, if you want to opt out of that behavior change that to 'body/head - no wrap' in the menu to the right"
 
9:12 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Command jsfiddle_sad learned
 
!!jsfiddle_sad
 
JSFiddle puts your code in a window.onload = function() {.. by default so inline scripts won't work, if you want to opt out of that behavior change that to 'body/head - no wrap' in the menu to the right
 
yay
You're the third person to ask that today
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum menu to the left*
 
fuuuu
:(
!!forget jsfiddle_sad
 
9:19 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Command jsfiddle_sad forgotten.
 
!!learn jsfiddle_sad "<> JSFiddle puts your code in a window.onload = function() {.. by default so inline scripts won't work, if you want to opt out of that behavior change that to 'body/head - no wrap' in the menu to the left"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Command jsfiddle_sad learned
 
@@SomeKittensUx2666 Hey i forgot to tell solved the issue of Jasmine httpBackend mock call
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum can't really think of any reason, specially it's has a accepted answer too from you
 
9:28 AM
Hmm, maybe people don't like that, that could make sense
 
9:39 AM
WOO I recreated the issue. jsfiddle.net/f6c7cq9n/3
When you click Audi, it puts all the 'unhidden' rows on one row
How would I get round that?
Well it's actually rendering the second row inside a td.
I believe.
 
@Sippy use BMW instead ;)
 
@CustomizedName OFC why didn't I think of that
I just figured out I'm a retard anyway
table-cell is exactly what it sounds like.
 
why not using jQuery
 
Why bother?
k didn't fix it. Still renders in a table cell, just a different one per row now. Lol
That last one is probably a bit clearer as to my problem and intent.
 
I just posted my shortest answer ever :D
(To be fair, OP asked)
 
9:51 AM
table-row worked
winning
 
Hi, I'm trying to use bracket notation to call a jQuery function. Does anyone know why it's saying 'Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token [ ' ---> jsfiddle.net/ngv06ytt
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum where's the link :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Could you (and/or anyone else who's herding the crowd in this room) weigh in on this? Once we have a built-in method, we probably won't allow 8k-galleries anymore, so I would like to hear opinions from people administering the JS room.
6
 
@CustomizedName setTimeout in this specific example is to show you an example for a function that does this asynchronously.
To the promise, it doesn't matter whether it was setTimeout or an XMLHttpRequest
 

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