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2:00 PM
These were 2 separate questions Cody. Is the answer good? and is the question good? take them separately.
 
@Andreas You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.
 
Ironically, the same could be said about members who do precisely the opposite. It is a problem when subject-matter experts close questions every 10 minutes, flag everything, never answer... Their actions rob the site of high-quality content, or even any sort of content.
 
I just want to know your POV. To me, both are bad.
 
The question should be closed. The answer is not something that would merit moderator intervention.
 
The question is: Should any question that is properly "closable" ever be answered? Dupes and typos are the clearest case, but there are others...
 
2:02 PM
I'd be willing to answer, but it's hard to find stuff that's answerable and worth answering.
 
We really, really, really have to stop trying to create rules that stop people from answering questions.
 
Instead, I answer stuff on Worldbuilding.
 
@CodyGray Yes. Did I ever say that is good behaviour?
 
Curation is an optional engagement.
 
@Andreas you are welcome to request privileges via a room owner. If you want to provide feebdback in other rooms where room owner approval isn't required, I'll be happy to add you
 
2:04 PM
@AdrianMole Duplicate, typo, requirement dump, no MCVE (the answer is a pure guess, and often mentions that too), etc.
 
@CodyGray It is a problem when subject-matter experts close questions every 10 minutes, flag everything, never answer - I follow a few flags on a daily basis. We are 2 people doing that on these specific tags on a daily basis, a few more less frequently. My last answer was on July 20. Since that date, I have over 6 pages of close votes in my profile on these same tags. So am I a bad expert?
 
@CodyGray Hey, I'm not a subject matter expert... ;)
 
It is not an answerer's job to deal with bad questions. That should be a janitor's job.
 
But there are folks (the type you've been discussing) that regularly answer such questions. As Cody says, I don't think there should be rules to stop this! And, as Cody also said, we have the downvote to use against such badly inspired answers.
 
@tripleee Oh; thank you, but I’d like to wait. I still had some misses concerning SD not too long ago, so I’d want to wait a little longer. :)
 
2:06 PM
@MrUpsidown It was your logic that people who contribute answers, rather than contributing to the removal of content, are hurting the site. I don't see why the logic doesn't also work the other way around.
 
So you mean I am hurting the site by not answering bad questions?
 
I don't really mean anything.
Sorry, never mind.
Obviously I am not being clear, and I just don't care enough to try and be more clear.
 
no worries
it's just a discussion, we all have different opinions
 
I am very frustrated at the accusations that answerers are doing something wrong by trying to answer.
If they were truly garbage posts, then we would want to do something about that. But I don't see the answers as being the problem.
I just don't buy the logic that having some poor-quality questions answered is actually attracting other poor-quality questions.
 
@AdrianMole Downvotes don’t work in certain tags.
 
2:09 PM
Garbage questions wouldn't be a problem if they got no replies
 
We have plenty of poor-quality questions that don't get answered, yet that doesn't seem to deter anyone. The very same people will come back and post their very same question as many times as the system will let them.
@JohnDvorak This is... absolutely wrong, based on everything I've ever seen and every ounce of logic that I can manage to assemble.
 
@CodyGray Not some; a lot.
 
I am quite lost at what point everyone tries to make here...
 
Better self-dupe autodetection?
 
@Andreas This is also absolute nonsense. There are no tags where downvotes don't work.
 
2:10 PM
@CodyGray be nice
 
@CodyGray It's an opinion, and one to which your are fully entitled. Six months ago I would have vehemently disagreed, but my own opinion is changing. I'm currently something of a "swing-voter," I guess.
 
Small tags where there are fewer users with downvote privileges? Well, there are also fewer answerers and fewer posts. Large tags where there are lots of users and answers, and upvotes get throw around freely? Well, there are also lots of users with downvote privileges to compensate.
@AdrianMole I've been at this a long time.
I no longer have to guess about what makes the most sense.
I've seen it before. I no longer have to construct elaborate scenarios. I can just look back at the history before my eyes.
 
Which is something I understand, respect and learn from. [/flattery]
 
@CodyGray Then we possess different information. One of these tags is Python. On a personal note (not using that to justify my view; just mentioning an example) I tried deleting some old questions of mine, but that wasn’t possible, because they had answers.
 
Excuse my ignorance and cutting in, but why is this post on meta heavily downvoted?
 
2:13 PM
@CodyGray I know it affects me.
 
Yes, we have restrictions in place that prevent deletion of questions that have been answered. I think that's a very good thing. I see a lot of users vandalizing their own content for reasons that I cannot fathom.
 
Still sounds like everyone is trying to make his/her own point, and still sounds like everyone is frustrated by at least something. I am vastly frustrated by quite a few things on SO and still keep doing what I think is best but often I get even more frustrated by discussions like this one where others tell you that you are not doing it right, or you are harming the site :/
 
Wouldn't vandalism be sufficiently covered by autoflags and easy reversals?
 
@oguzismail You want us to speculate about why people are downvoting things? No thank you. That is not productive. Asking random people in chat is only marginally better than leaving annoying "why the downvote?" comments.
 
@CodyGray Yes, it’s a very good thing, but these questions should never have been asked in the first place, and therefore neither answered. If it’s caused by a typo, give the answer in a comment, and flag/vote to close. If it’s another simple error, answer in the comments, and flag/vote to close.
 
2:15 PM
@MrUpsidown In many ways, the site is run (or at least curated) by consensus. But consensus doesn't mean blind conformity: we are a Community not a Borg-like Collective.
 
I shouldn't have down voted this because I should vote on the merit... oh... well... so I am not free to act the way I want.
 
@CodyGray I disagree it's not productive. It could be reworded sure, but the idea isn't bad.
 
@Andreas Sigh, no. No question should ever be answered in a comment. If you are compelled to leave a comment containing an answer or explanation, then you should be answering the question and not closing it.
 
@CodyGray That only makes sure noise and garbage stays on the site.
 
but answers prevent deletion
 
2:16 PM
Not everything needs to be deleted!
Not everything is garbage!
 
a lot does though
 
@CodyGray Garbage does, and I know I have asked garbage.
 
It.. doesn't. But that's OK. Obviously this is not going to go anywhere productive.
So I'm done here.
 
@CodyGray That's a case where I'm still 'swinging'.
 
@CodyGray I'm always open to arguments. (As in evidence, not as in mere disagreement)
 
2:19 PM
I am still trying to learn how this whole thing works, or doesn't work, or is supposed to work... and sometimes I feel really lost. And then, once every few months, I ask a question, one that I consider a good one, that is a clear one, with a MCVE and clear description of the issue, and I get down voted like crazy for no reason which also makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time :)
 
@MrUpsidown Maybe folks are seeing the "up" and "down" vote buttons inverted, in your case? xD
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/57627236/… or stackoverflow.com/questions/62287847/… for example! These must be really bad questions!
@AdrianMole that must be it then!
If anyone could give me a good reason why I got down voted 7 times (and 0 up votes) on these 2 questions... that would be really appreciated ;)
 
People don't like debugging questions with lots of code
 
"lots of code" ... okay, but it's really the minimal code needed, and it's fully reproducible, in a stack snippet... I don't know how I could have shorten that.
 
I nuked your thanks comment, but I don’t really understand the answer to your last question (it’s really simple, I know) though I can’t find any reason why your questions are outright bad.
Ooooh
Right. I thought it was saying there were 2 «display» properties in the CSS, which I couldn’t find.
 
2:30 PM
I still like to say thanks ;)
 
You just used the wrong value. Maybe people think it was too obvious, or too simple?
 
yeah, not as clear as it could be, maybe... but it fixed the issue
 
@MrUpsidown I have no problem with thanks comments as long as they don’t live forever. ;)
@MrUpsidown No, it’s just me not reading it correctly.
 
Maybe people think it was too obvious, or too simple - maybe then. That's not what I consider a bad question though. If it was like "just a typo" then it should be closed accordingly. And as you can see, none of the 2 questions received any close vote...
That's why I really like these 2 questions. Voting is just a total non-sense, at least for me.
 
The first one, I don’t see any problem with. The last one, however, could be «too basic» or «read the manuals», but at the same time, CSS is a real mess at times.
 
2:41 PM
For the first one: Safari is a mess. I'd drop Safari full support, but that might not be an option for you.
 
Oh... I thought it was the best browser :)
 
@JohnDvorak Eh... That feels like discrimination. I use Safari.
 
You don't have to, @Andreas
 
@JohnDvorak I like Safari.
 
Anyway, all this was about is that sometimes, people's reactions and voting schemes are still very weird to me, and on the other hand, other people seem to disagree with my voting scheme ;)
 
2:43 PM
Better than zoos, sure, but as a browser ... nah.
 
Still good to hear some more opinions
I would use IE but I am on a mac...
 
@MrUpsidown No...
 
As a web dev enthusiast, I despise it ;)
Firefox FTW. Chrome second best, if you don't mind the privacy invasion.
 
@CodyGray Pretty sure 90% of all the content on SO is
 
@JohnDvorak I do use FF too, if that helps. I’ve boycotted Google, so no Chrome Chromium for me.
 
2:46 PM
The newest mobile Firefox upgrade kills Tampermonkey support, but I'm hoping it will be fixed soon.
@tripleee seems they want to automate this ... but it's still unclear
 
@DavidBuck Spam? Symantec?
 
@Andreas The spam was deleted moments after my cv-pls
 
@Andreas There was a spam answer posted (now nuked) today.
 
mhm, ok.
 
thought no one would answer it but it already got three answers
 
3:15 PM
@JeanneDark I went for asking off-site resource
 
@blackgreen and has an accepted, link-only answer
 
3:58 PM
@Scratte The room owner in the source room must have write access to the destination room in order to move chat messages to the room.
 
@DalijaPrasnikar That one's gonna 'eat' a fair number of delete votes, I guess.
... unless one of our Cherished Blue People comes to the rescue. :-)
 
@AdrianMole 4
 
@Braiam Is that the maximum number? Even for a Q with a score of +23.
 
I think it's 6 in total
 
4:15 PM
@Vega All I can find is this: "It takes 3 votes, minimum, to delete a closed question. However, the number of delete votes required scales to the number of votes on the question and all its answers."
 
@AdrianMole but that maximum number of votes is capped at 10
 
OK, thanks! But it's a moot point now, as the question has been blue-locked.
 
I read the tooltip on 'delete'. It said '3 more are needed'
 
@Vega That's cheating! ;-)
 
@AdrianMole I like shortcuts ;)
 
4:17 PM
hehe
 
@DalijaPrasnikar I've put a historical lock on this. With 26,266 views in <3 years, and a relatively high percentage of those actually upvoting, it looks like it's actually been useful to a significant number of users. OTOH, it's clearly off-topic. I've left a deleted comment with the current number of views. We can revisit the question later (e.g. in a year) and see if it is still getting visits/is still useful.
 
Is this sufficiently off-topic to close? I assume it should have been on dba.se ideally stackoverflow.com/questions/50725607/…
 
@DavidBuck That post references this one covering the same issue: stackoverflow.com/questions/53441907/…
 
@DavidBuck The late answer is NAA, if anyone wants to flag... :)
It could be closed as duplicate?
 
4:34 PM
@Vega I had that thought and then wondered which one. Currently I'm philosophizing whether editing to reference VBA code would bring it on topic and whether VBA counts as programming ;)
 
@Vega Yes, that rant popped up in FP.
 
@AdrianMole Maximun is 10 delete votes
 
They're obviously duplicate topics but not immediately clear which would be a dupe of what. Still not convinced they're on-topic
 
@Makyen I am fine with historical lock, but wouldn't it make more sense to migrate it to Super User or Ask Different?
 
@DalijaPrasnikar Questions can only be migrated, even by moderators, for 60 days from when they are posted. It takes a CM to migrate older posts, and is rarely done.
 
4:42 PM
Ah... those migration rules :(
 
4:55 PM
@DavidBuck The second doesn't have accepted answer, so might not be used as target, but the duplicate? The question(s) is/are peripherally about programming environment, could perhaps stay. As I know vba on the (also) on periphery, I will vote if someone else agrees :)
 
Suspicious looking question. At least opinion-based, but possibly spam.
 
@DavidBuck I think they are on topic. "split front end/back end Microsoft Access application we built" implies a front-end (VBA) plus back end (DB). I am contemplating an edit that would make it on-topic.
 
@DanielWiddis to me front end/back end MS Access application means it's an Access form and Access database file
VBA not necessarily implied (unless there's a VBA tag)
 
@TylerH OP added VBA tag in first edit
workaround sites include "If using DAO to open a database from Visual Basic code, you may see error 3343..."
although front-end/back-end apparently is Access / MSSQL
I think I will edit it to include that error code, seeing multiple reports at links "error 3343 unrecognized database format . Clients are getting it when they are using it."
 
5:11 PM
@CodyGray What's wrong with "why the downvote" comments?
 
@TheMaster You could get suspended for asking those
 
OK, added a line referencing VB and the error code, cv'd the second one as dupe of the first.
 
@TheMaster it's noise and leads to focusing on the user rather than the content
 
Never seem to get complaints/comments like, "Why the upvote?"
3
 
5:24 PM
@AdrianMole I should comment my 0-voted answers as "Why no upvote?" or "Hey OP Why u no accept?" Off to do that now!
 
@AdrianMole It would be interesting to see if the system doesn't allow voting and how many users will visit SO
 
@akrun Oh really? Any link to such thoughts?
@AdrianHHH Thanks for the links
 
@TheMaster I would say I was suspended in the past when I commented along those lines
 
@TylerH I mean if the question is continuously downvoted, asking "why the downvote" would be the same as "Is there anything to improve my question?". And future visitors can help on the content. It is helpful to avoid future downvotes...i think
@AdrianMole If you're doing something wrong, you'd want to know what and how to fix it. If you're doing everything right and getting upvotes, why question it?
 
@akrun You don't get suspended for posting those comments, unless the same comments happen to be more harmful than just asking "why the downvote".
 
5:34 PM
Why the upvote? is very relevant because often times I find the very simple one-liners with not much effort gets more upvotes than somebody spending lots of effort to answer a difficult question
@E_net4staysawayfromMeta It is along those lines. I didn't say it is solely responsible, but it adds some weight based on moderators comments
 
@TheMaster You can post them, but expect them not to stay for long. And to be fair, there are often better ways to portray that comment than asking about the downvote.
 
There definitely are better ways to convey the question
 
@akrun Sure, a stream of comments only exhibiting heat over the downvotes can get you in trouble. The point is that it often takes more than just "why the downvote", because those are usually flagged as no longer needed.
 
The main reason for lots of upvotes for simple question is many users don't have time to spend on looking at the code or trying difficult questions. And if answering those duplicate questions gain more upvotes, people tend to answer those.
 
@AdrianMole I've seen those, but they're often from those who should know better. :(
Keep those to chat. :))))
 
5:42 PM
@E_net4staysawayfromMeta Yeah - I've seen them, too (from users other than the poster). And you're right - such people should know better. But I've never seen an OP ask why somebody upvoted their answer.
 
@AdrianMole "Thanks for the upvotes! ^.^"
 
@TheMaster Sure, but asking how you can improve your question is different from asking 'why am I getting downvotes'. If you are getting downvotes, and want to know why, look at the downvote button's tooltip. "this question lacks research effort; it's unclear or unhelpful" that's the answer to your question, so no need to ask it
unfortunately what often happens is someone says "-1 because of x y or z" and then OP targets the commenter out of revenge, for example
so it's best just to avoid that kind of discussion
@akrun did you mean to post that del-pls on the answer? If not I don't see how the del-pls reason applies to it, since it's an answer...
 
@TylerH I meant it is based on the question. It is a common question frequently asked
@TylerH Well, I see these questions (stackoverflow.com/questions/34131346/…, stackoverflow.com/questions/36159979/…) were similarly deleted, right?
@TylerH If you have any point that favors deletion of those questions (I see your vote also in one of them) and not in the link I showed, please let me know. I find both of them using grep
 
5:59 PM
@MrUpsidown FWIW those aren't really the minimal code needed. For example, if your problem is that images aren't showing in Safari only, then padding and background-color and margin properties are completely irrelevant. Just for future reference. Also I'm not sure you need all five wrapper elements (what, are you competing with SharePoint for wrapper world record?) for anything, let alone for an MCVE. Especially when each one just has height: 100%; on it.
@akrun Ah
@akrun not sure what you are asking/saying here
 
@TylerH Just answering to your query
 
@akrun Yes, I understand the first response as an answer to my question, and I think the second response, too. However, the third response doesn't make sense to me. :-)
 
You said the one I flagged for del-pls is not worthy of that. So, I showed two other links where similar deletions were applied and on one of them you also casted the vote
 
@akrun No I didn't, I asked if you meant to link to the answer or the question
since you said "has been asked a lot before"
 
@TylerH I meant for the question and not for the answer. May be there is a misunderstanding. Sorry
 
6:02 PM
If you simply meant to link to the question, that's all there is to it :-)
 
ok, np
There is nothing wrong in that answer, and I also feel there is nothing in my answer for those links as well
 
@TylerH I'd say that's nitpicking and they do have a reason in my final code but fair enough.
 
@TylerH divitis :D
 
 
1 hour later…
7:14 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
 
 
This post seems to have some odd, yet unpleasant, conversation taking place, in Czech, by way of NAAs stackoverflow.com/questions/63318402/…
 
@DavidBuck please raise a custom mod flag and indicate it is unplesaant. That is relevant info for the mods.
 
@rene Deleted as I typed the flag..
 
@DavidBuck I've raised a mod flag and pointed to your chat message
I expect Bhargav to curse at me when he needs to visit that Q/A again ...
 
@rene Thanks
 
9:05 PM
yw
 
9:50 PM
@AdrianMole: I've been meaning to ask, in relation to your username, whether you are aged 13¾?
(which, I guess, is old enough to use Stack Overflow! \o/)
@Dharman I think now the dup message has been removed, we need to do something. Do you think it is not a dup?
 
I don't understand why it was even closed as a duplicate
 
I trust your judgement, have voted to RO
 
@halfer I was at one point.
 
Eh... I just managed to misclick some buttons, and ended up creating a room with @AdrianMole... Is it possible to have rooms deleted? Completely deleted?
 
@AdrianMole No way, me too! And my name is not even Adrian.
 
10:04 PM
@Andreas Your mistakes will not live forever.
 
@Dharman I sure hope they won’t!
 
I don't think normal users can remove rooms, but the rooms will be locked after some time.
 
Then auto-deleted if there hasn’t been posted any message in it? Anyway. It’s not that important, actually. It’s just a dumb mistake (I blame the website). Then everybody can wonder why I and Adrian have an empty room.
 
10:20 PM
There are probably thousands of dead/frozen rooms on the SE network - all those that are created when comments turn into chat and are then never visited again. There may be a clean-up system that removes them after a certain time.
 
@Andreas what you can do is make the room Gallery (room info -> Access) to prevent anyone talking there. With no messages the room will freeze and be deleted in 7 days (or 14 I never get that right).
 
6-8
 
10:37 PM
I didn't want to be that predictable ....
 
10:51 PM
@Dharman How many ways can people mess up that?
 
@Braiam What do you mean?
 
@Andreas Deleted
 
@Dharman Put your host, port and auth, start the connection and keep it alive until the program ends, yet people seems to want to introduce complexity into it.
 
@Braiam I don't know. I do it it in 1-3 lines of code. It's a really simple task in PHP
 
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