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7:18 AM
@sco1 you're back :D Good to see you again
@CrisLuengo did you try to visualise Winnie the Pooh?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:46 AM
Still mostly lurking nowadays but I hope everyone is well :)
 
I cannot speak for everyone, but I am, thanks
How's yourself?
 
 
5 hours later…
3:00 PM
@code-golfers, what stupidity is this? codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/252268/91877
"my program is actually shorter because the language doesn't use 256 different possible values per character." GTFO.
 
3:52 PM
that's about the code pages some languages define
 
4:30 PM
Yeah, it's the kind of bullshit that takes the fun out of games
Powergaming (or power gaming or optimization) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximizing progress towards a specific goal. Other players may consider this disruptive when done to the exclusion of all other considerations, such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie. When focusing on the letter of the rules over the spirit of the rules, it is often seen as unsporting, un-fun, or unsociable. This behavior is most often found in games with a wide range of game features, lengthy campaigns or...
 
4:49 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні well it is necessary (and I think quite accepted on PPCG): The issue came up that we decided to score in bytes, and how some languages have different encodings
take TI-Basic or APL
but if you just take some existing language and "define" it to use a different encoding scheme, it counts as a different language
so I believe this is a langauge that uses fractional bytes
even languages like Jelly (by the Dennis) make use of that: github.com/DennisMitchell/jellylanguage/wiki/Code-page
 
 
2 hours later…
6:27 PM
@flawr I don't see subbyte chars there
 
7:08 PM
In that case not, but it also has a custom encoding
so if your encoding uses less than 8 bits, we just use fractional bytes
 
One non-ascii char = one byte is "fine"
That's just an ascii remap
 
well ascii also just uses 7 bits really:)
 
7:30 PM
I mean in 100m sprints you don't just round to the nearest second either:)
 
 
1 hour later…
8:48 PM
I've often considered fractional-byte encoding (packing 8 ASCII chars in 7 bytes) for MATL... Quietly leaves the room
 
I can understand packing 7-bit characters, but what the hell is log256(96)? 6.584 bits per character? How do you pack characters that way? It makes 0 sense. I can see using Huffman encoding, for example. But then you wouldn't have 6.584 bits per character, you'd have some integer number of bits that depends on which characters you use.
That one particular answer, it says "≈ 9.054 bytes". That is 72.432 bits. No. You can have 72 bits or 73 bits, 9.0 or 9.125 bytes. Not 9.054 bytes. It is theoretically impossible, a bit being the smallest unit of information.
 
perhaps they just compute the number of valid codes vs the range of total codes
"I'm using a uint64 but only use a single bit so it's a 1-bit encoding"
OK, that's a bad analogy because the point is missing
 
They claim to use a 6.584-bit encoding...
 
I mean bits imply an arbitrary base 2
if you use a different base you'd get an integer
 
8:58 PM
"I'm using base-10 but I only have codes from 0 to 3 so this is a 0.4 digit encoding"
 
but it's just the convention to use bits and bytes
 
A bit is the minimal amount of information you can have. It doesn't imply any base.
You cannot have fractional bits.
 
but if you know some datapoint is one of three options
 
then you need more than one but less than 2 bits to represent it!
 
that is, you need a trit!
 
@flawr that means 2 bits
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні but 2 bits can represent 4 options!
huh a trit is actually a thing, I thought I just made that up:)
 
From now on, code golf is scored by computing entropy.
 
we did have som entropy challenges:)
@CrisLuengo I think I read about a soviet computer that used ternary for instance
many mechanical calculators use base 10
but we just agreed to score in bits, so you need to convert form one to another
in some base you will alwas have an integer number
 
9:04 PM
I guess that's an integer in base 96 then... :/
Still, no way to represent that in a computer with the given number of bits.
 
Who said anything about computers? :P
 
we're just a very binary-normative society when it comes to computers
 
The answer I linked is a program that runs in an actual implementation that you can download from GitHub.
Also, if you really need to win by 0.01 bits, feel free to go to hell and die.
 
That is just for the convenience of the poor people who don't have base 96-based architecture.
 
9:09 PM
hm what if we were to use a negative base?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:15 PM
@CrisLuengo I totally agree. The idea is good, but it would need an actual encoding, which would of course produce an integer number of bytes (or bits at the very least)
2 hours ago, by Luis Mendo
I've often considered fractional-byte encoding (packing 8 ASCII chars in 7 bytes) for MATL... Quietly leaves the room
Now I remember, actually it was a little more efficient:
base 95 encoding, optimizing code points to squeeze out one or two leading zeros. But I never brought myself to do such a change (I should have thought about it earlier in the design and implementation process)
 

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