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20:03
@KendallFrey From the C++ lounge's star list: i.sstatic.net/knxAA.jpg
Huh. Library names and language level methods are not natural language independent. That's gotta be a bummer.
Heh
That's like saying our vocabulary is not natural language independent :p
That was your point, wasn't it?
Sort of. Just seems weird to me that "string" is always "string" and not uh... "el stringo"
you want the types to be multilanguage?
and keywords?
sequencia do symbolo or whatever.
Want? Not particularly. It just seems like it'd be that much rougher for a non-English speaker to learn to code.
20:11
I must admit I don't like the idea of the symbols to be i18n
wow, that came out bad.
I can read "new TimeSpan()" and have a loose grasp of what it's doing. If I only spoke Russian? Maybe not so much.
all devs speak american. DUH. <g>
"sequencia do symbolo" is precisely why programming is done in English.
Who wants to type that every time?
or لكل
The spanish do.
20:14
We should all be writing code in latin ;)
I'm sure they'd abbreviate it to "seq" sort of like how we don't type "string of characters."
which is for each in arabic
@Billdr Keep in mind that "string" is a complete name in itself.
I thought it was derived from the phrase "string of characters."
some programmers have a hard enough time getting code to compile, can you imagine if they had to draw symbols?
20:15
Otherwise I'm not sure how "string" correlates to what it represents.
It may be, but now 'string' is a noun of its own.
as would seq or whatever the Spanish equivalent is.
Meh, English is the master language anyway.
lol
its the only language more widespread than chinese I think. And Chinese is only more because their country has so many people.
@ChadRuppert Using LabView you draw your code
20:17
at least AFAIK
@JohanLarsson Raptor
English is a handy language to know. Thanks movies and internet!
Labview code^^
Very much like RAPTOR
neat though
raptor was hard to google, too many other meanings
yeah, i had that problem the first time too
a cursory glance at raptor.martincarlisle.com still makes you think dinos
because of, um, the big dino on the top.
20:21
yuck
yuck indeed.
Visio is not an IDE, damnit.
the only thing i saw in RAPTOR that I liked,was you can watch the steps execute. So its 'sort of' good for new programmers. like brand new.
@ChadRuppert Is is oss or are they trying to sell something with that homepage?
The Lego programming language is like that too.
Compiles to C, I think.
20:23
its OSS i think.
AFAIK it has no use outside of its ide/interpreter. But maybe. I dont know, someone I was tutoring had to use it.
Oh neat, Lego MindStorm works with the Microsoft Robotics Developer Studio. You can program them in C# now. Exciting!
wazup
;)
yeah, My son was in a lego group, we heard about it. Wasnt willing to pony up the bucks for the mindstorm stuff though
Lego robots and natural language independent programming.
very expensive
20:26
Yar. Wife bought it for me last Christmas. I still haven't had time to do anything with it other than the default stuff. I did make it look a bit like Jonny5 though.
Yes! One more no-repro!
hey anyone wanna try help me with a visual studio publishing issue?
If your question is "Can I ask a question?", Magic Eight Ball says "Ask again later." - oct 31 at 17:40 by Kyle Trauberman
20:32
lol, no, my question was slightly different :P
or alternatively, "Don't ask to ask, just ask!"
I should write a chrome extension to add a button to my browser to post that to chat.
@KendallFrey What are you "Gaah"ing at?
If you do, expect recycle bin traffic to double.
@Billdr You.
@JamesKent don't know if I'll be able to help but throw the question out there and someone will probably pick it up with this many in tonight :)
20:34
What if I make it a random selection between the 30 ways we've put that since I started visiting the room?
Well.. you know how you can have multiple projects/apps within just the one solution? How can I Publish all of my lightswitch or visual studio apps that are within the same solution as 1 setup package which will install all of those apps... just how Microsoft office installation works, you download one file and it installs all the office apps
That 'can i ask a question' answer is becoming very grating.
Custom installer probably.
20:35
I'm looking into it James.
I know it can be done with the Visual Studio installer projects but don't really use the Publish option very often.
It seems to matter which version on VS you're on
VS installer projects are trash.
i'm on visual studio 2012 RC
They were removed in 2012.
For good reason.
20:36
:( just my luck
what reason was that?
@KendallFrey no doubt. Unfortunately I've had to pick up projects that people used those installers without changing them around.
@JamesKent They're trash.
the don't let james so this, reason?
lol @KendallFrey, ok.
2-second research throws this back:
I spent over an hour searching
20:39
Hmm, that might be the VS installer projects rather than Publish option in fairness
I'm jumping in and out
The link in that answer is valid to VS 2003.
wow
that's like a hundred years ago
^^
Can't edit the other message, oh well
I'm afraid it's time for me to pack up for the day James. Good luck.
Later room.
Thanks @Billdr, :)
20:42
It never fails to amaze me that basically local application deployment on windows is garbage, and MS have never seen the need to get off their arses and write a packaging utility that's i) straightforward to use and ii) good
Keep in mind that Linux installation is much worse than Windows.
Design MSI, then don't bother to supply an API with which to create them. What the hell?
linux installations are hard?
like the OS?
No, programs.
i assume you arent talking about using a package manager. :)
20:49
Well, not all programs can be installed with a package manager.
make/make install still is the thing for manuals, right?
And some can, but you have to search long and hard for (or guess) the name.
@ChadRuppert Usually, yes, but when I try, it usually doesn't work.
depends on the distro. If you do LFS it will typically work.
Either configure is broken, or I'm missing some dependency (which is itself missaing a dependency, etc.)
lol I tried LFS and could not manage to do anything useful.
LFS was a huge PITA
back when everything was single core P3s, that shit took FOREVER
i bet its a ton faster with todays compilers and multicore machines.
20:54
My dog was teached himself to puke in the floor drain, he is 8/8 for the last couple of months, prodigy!
Guess its fine to eat grass now, no third party involved
thats genius
hahaha
awesome
does he get rewarded for doing it right?
yep of course, I do as best as I can while he is puking. Hard to measure how much effect my involvement has given the situation
I have always carried him there when i have heard he was about to start.
might be setting yourself up for the situation of "Hmm, bored. I know, this always makes cool stuff happen" * puke*
Maybe, but the risk is probably because of the puke part
Cant imagine he enjoys it. Should be mentioned dogs really know how to puke. Looks like a complete workout.
21:01
later gators
When I write code I tend to use ctrl+s a lot. I find myself doing that on occasion when editing code in a post here too =/
do you even need to do ctrl+s using VS?
Was a while since I lost code
It saves on build I think?
idano, old habit I guess
it does
ok, that explains it for me, lots of builds running tests
Every time I read JScript documentation on MSDN, I want to cry.
21:15
Just let it out, it's nice to dare to become despondent, feeling human <-- Google translate
... That's about how i feel.
guys, did anybody used webkit in his/hers projects ?
I look after my friends two dogs + my two until Sunday, for those who don't know walking four dogs whose combined weight is <= your weight , kool = false;
Averaged 0.5 m between stops for taking a leak
21:37
they misbehave or are just all on their own page?
Hi guys
Vegas is OFF THE HOOK
I think you need another drink
I do a lot of ctrl +s too
@KyleTrauberman word homes
@TravisJ The are all males and i suspect the neighbor bitch is doing the bitch thing, dunno what its called in English
gotta, go, back in 45'
21:40
I do a lot of ctrl +s too
Just habit
@Johan - "in heat"
@TravisJ sir Travis never disappoints!
question: why is the wiki link in a comment in the room topic
wouldn't a string be better
I guess I did that to show what the returned value was
sigh calling a javascript module without using () is a pain the ass
21:48
sharepoint development in 2013 is HEAVY javascript
0
Q: Instantiate one instance of a module pattern conditionally in javascript

Travis JI am trying to expose a module. I wanted to expose only one instance of it to all callers, and I want to wait until the module is called to instantiate it. I tried to do this: var obj = {}; var foobar = function(){ var id=22; function GetId(){ return ++id; } return{ GetId: GetId }; }; obj.f...

but you can use mvc for the dev too
I'm so happy
<3 mvc
I'm actually excited about SharePoint Development in 2013
and js and razor and linq
these are a few of my favorite things
I don't use razor that often
but when I do, it's epic
21:51
I usually end up bleeding when I use razor
@KyleTrauberman rimshot
I want a Microsoft Surface
I must have entered a zillion drawings for one
You have a surface. AKA skin.
ba dum clunk
:P
ninja edit
I told my work not to by me the new surface
21:54
Yes, certainly.
Why?
I am waiting until the one with pro comes out
that one is going to be killer!
surface pro?
yeah
you can run VS on it!
21:55
I've always wanted to code without a keyboard.
I am going to turn mine into a walking hotspot server
Wait, it has one. But I bet it sucks.
The best thing about it, better than any other tablet, is that it does not run a micro kernel
Is it faster then?
I am not sure, but it is full featured.
21:57
its actually going to run win 8 pro instead of RT
cool
You would not be able to tell the difference functionality wise (speed wise I am not sure) between a desktop and the surface pro
The way I understand it, Windows RT is gonna be a stripped-down version that only runs apps. Amirite?
I think RT is nerfed
Damn that would suck.
21:58
like IOS compared to OSX
So I pulled up my remote desktop and the chat was still on it in front of the whole engineering dept... thank you for not having goatse or something on the chat
You're welcome. bows
damn, missed our opportunity =/
they are demoing access 2013 here
21:59
Is it still on the screen?
right now
screenshot!
taking one
shitty wifi upload in progress
please hold
that looks exciting....
(lies)
22:02
hahaha that is funny, I was expecting some UI and it just says "Access 2013"
if they show ui, ill show that
so I think to expose my module from my global I need to nest a factory pattern version of the module, in a module, which instantiates the module I want to expose
the guy next to me is using a surface
con-vo-lu-tion
it looks so sexy (the surface, not the guy)
hes taking notes in one note WITH A PEN
22:04
I remember when ms entered the game console market and no one thought it would work
ms is totally the tortoise from the fable....careful, precise, trudging, winning.
3
I want the surface with the blue keyboard mmm sexy
I realize that this picture is just a concept phone, but if Microsoft made this, I would cut my arm off and sell it so I could buy it: geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/…
It really annoys me when people start off their answer or comment with "No" when a boolean is not the type that was requested.
@JamesKent - Start cutting...Isn't that what the new htc phone looks like?
22:21
@TravisJ hmmm... i'm gonna go see if i can find it now, i haven't really seen any new HTC's lately. been having too much fun with my old nokia 8250 that i bought 12 years ago lol
lol cutting edge!
Don't you think it's funny that a 12 year old mobile phone still has better reception, better quality and still works perfectly, when in the past 12 years I've gone through countless different mobiles that have either fallen apart, had crappy reception/call quality, or just had a really crap os? Technology just doesn't seem to be made to last anymore
What is the battery life estimate of that surface?
i've thrown this nokia 8250 around and dropped it so many times, still works! lol
Also question about room topic, is the formatting of the C# to look like js intentional?
22:25
not enough generics?
@JohanLarsson Accoring to computerworld.com.au/article/428358/… the Surface's don't quite stack up compared to iPad's battery life... so if you know how long an ipad will last for, it's probably less than that
@TravisJ Like if you have applied vacuum to it sucked out all readability :)
@JamesKent ty for link
VS on a tablet can probably be pretty painful but still something that could make it a no-brainier choise
@JohanLarsson no probs :)
22:43
@zneak dic you try to ask your suck question here maybe it generates higher quality discussion
Any MVC Razor peeps here?
@JohanLarsson I didn't think about it for a while
I was busy reading how easy it is for the US government to snoop your emails: arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/…
but you have returned to it a couple of times, sounds like a stray background thread
did I?
I thought that was a one-time question
@zneak I usually don't worry too much about that type of thing, there is one thing to hour advantage, the extremely low signal to noise ratio. Try to imagine the amount of noise generated only using sms daily and you will come up with a very large number
22:51
int z;
while(x<20)
{
    while(y<20)
    {
        z=x*y;
        y++;
    }
    x++;
}
How can that block be optimized? Seems pretty clean from here.
SO
@Billdr My guess is that is pretty decent performance
er, assume iterators
yeah, with ++ and all
and hopefully x = 1 and y = 1 at start
My guess is that is pretty decent performance
and z += x * y because otherwise it's just 19 * 19
22:53
Sorry, this is weird homework. I need to think of a way to increase the performance of that loop.
multiplication is cheap for all I know
the result of z is irrelevant.
comparing is cheap
well what do you need to do then :/
get a result or loop as fast as you can?
room topic changed to C#: using( var room = ChatFactory<CSharp>() ){ room<User>.Add(you); room<Wiki>.Show(you," goo.gl/sw1w5 "); room<Question>.Add( () => you.Select( u => u.Questions ).Where(q => !q.Text.ToLower().Contains("can I ask")).FirstOrDefault() ); } [.net] [asp.net] [asp.net-mvc] [c#] [entity-framework] [linq] [visual-studio] [wcf] [wpf]
happy?
22:54
no
that's not legal C# at all
you're using generics on instances
I need to make the loop go faster. The loop must multiply every value of x by every value of y.
@zneak - Johan wanted more generics so I threw that together, what needs to change?
a static class cannot use generics?
using (var room = ...
that's not static
I wonder if using the result in a child while block is faster, since the result is already in the register.
factories which return instances without the new keyword are static, usually
unless they are injected
22:58
but room is an instance :/
you've written room<Wiki>, room<Question>, ...
rather have it be new chatfactory?
or a different clause in the using statement to define room?
whatever would be syntactically legal assuming the classes existed would be fine by me
@RyanTernier yes
@TravisJ you could always use your old trusted :
    #region AntiPattern
        //Write code here
    #endregion

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