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21:00
Oops could get suspended
Great!
at that point you might want to post that as a real question on the site
AAAAANNNNNNnnnnddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
5:00PM
Have a good weekend all
Grats. RUNRUNRUN
bye
21:01
So... I sign in to codeplex with my live account. To use codeplex as a tfs server, I need a codeplex password.
run away from tfs
is my humble advice after one summer of using it
Aug 2 at 19:04, by Grixxly
tfs? try fix swear?
@zneak TFS is great. I suspect whoever configured yours did it wrong.
21:02
I hate TFS
Would TFS be similar to TC?
It disturbs me that you had a Grixxly quote at the ready.
No, I just remembered it and used chat search ;)
TFS is the thing you pulled our project from Lews.
I know but what is TC?
Team City
21:04
No idea
Ah looks like a Java stuff
Supports .NET and Ruby
Totally different.
Nvm.
So rlemon is in, who else?
Ryan
Sweet!
Kyle said he's in, when "he has time." Which means he's not in.
Bummer
21:06
Okay.. Back. Was talking to my boss..

I have a question for fellow American programmers. What is a good starting salary fresh out of college?
@HerNameIsEllie, depends where I guess
its seriously only an issue of time
Well, yeah..
1 billion dollars
21:06
((sighhh)) I'm serious.
@KyleTrauberman Okay, I'm not smart enough to connect to codeplex via tfs with my regular account
@HerNameIsEllie Depends on degree and location. I wanted 50k starting with a CS degree but could only get ~40ish where I'm at. If I was willing to move to a bigger city I think I'd have an easier time getting 50.
im serious that would be a good starting wage
...I take that back
My goodness G+ is so confusing
21:07
LastPass for the rescue!
@Billdr Won't that be in the same situation as myself?
@RyanTernier Ikr?
I've got 3 companies courting me, my current employer, and 2 other companies in Texas - USAA and ARGO. I just got an offer from my employer for $40k. Seems a little low.
Want to add a friend, no you have to add a circle, i hate circles I want a triangle, no you need a circle, BUT I WANT A... triangle
@KyleTrauberman You want in? Circle me on G+
@HerNameIsEllie Women!
@HerNameIsEllie That was my feeling too.
That is standard graduate salary I think.
Low, but we have to suck it up.
21:08
Okay, that makes me feel a little better.
@HerNameIsEllie I'm in the Midwest, I get about 45k. Another friend of mine with the same experience is getting $47. We're both entry level.
I mean, it's not an IT company I work for... it's cattle and pork and I just work in IT
If you like your current employer, try to wait on a higher offer from someone else and then use that as leverage.
if you have 2 companies courting you, you can probably try to pull that up a little
21:09
it should let you set your codeplex password there
@Billdr You get 45k for a start up? I imagined lower. Dude that's awesome.
I don't think they'll accept counter-offers/leverage. This is a relatively small company, so I don't know that they can afford more... I was just curious if this is a slap in the face, or average.
I was basically in the position of beggers can't be choosers. Almost zero opportunities for developers in my hometown.
Na, not a slap in the face, low-end of average imo
that's less than i'd settle for, probably, but definitely not a slap in the face
@LewsTherin I was pushing for 50k. I was making 52k doing documentation/tech support, including my overtime pay and tuition reimbursment.
21:10
10-4
Good hours.
considering that's 30 hours a week, that's fairly good then
@Billdr 45K for a software engineer?
I used to work half 8 to 5
Oh, 30 hours a week, nm
21:11
you guys are making $45k per year?
I got 20k for a startup when I started as a junior, worked my way to 40 in 2 years, they wouldn't pay me more, so I left and and got a 40% raise
my first dev job I was making 60k
But this is such a lax job, I mean, if it's a slow day, I can basically sit around and goof off with my fellow nerds. Who would leave that?
@HerNameIsEllie If you live in WI/MN/Ia I'd say that's in range; a tad low for a metro in those states.
@pe
@Kyle i make more than that
21:11
@KyleTrauberman Are you kidding? WTF
@HerNameIsEllie what's the job title/what is your education level?
@Pheonixblade9 45k for Jr .Net
and I make way more than that now
Experience?
i graduated in 2007
21:11
This is my first job and I make $75k + bonus + stock options
@LewsTherin I just noticed I didn't have you in the right circle. I think. Were you not seeing my posts on G+ about the clan site?
with my BSCS
nice pheonix
@Pheonixblade9 Hire me?
;)
@Billdr Let me check
21:12
I think I would just be hired as a 'Programmer'. Like I said, this isn't an IT company, so they don't have super official titles. I basically do whatever is in my realm of knowledge/whatever needs to be done. And come May, I will have a Bachelor's in Computer Information Systems.
Sounds like I need to gtfo of Michigan
@robjb lol, I was actually doing recruiting recently. I went to the UW job fair
@LewsTherin My experience? This is my first job as a developer. I was a hobbiest for a while. I published my own android app, which got me in.
I work in OK.
Da Fuq is going on. I need to move to America ha ha
21:12
I switched jobs about 2 years ago and got a $20k bump in salary
WIndows 8 came out and is available to all MSDN subscribers right?
I think "sharepoint" on my resume helps a little though
@user1079641 yes
yea i only earn £26k
@robjb I was in Michigan, went to WMU for computer engineering. I was interviewing with companies like Amway, Stryker, Ford and getting offers for ~$60k... got an offer out in Seattle for $75k. I probably could have gotten more.
@KyleTrauberman We make fun of Sharepoint at my job
21:13
So I know its free for them, but how many licenses do they get?
i make fun of it too
@Pheonixblade9 dafuq, I graduated from WMU in CS
Or is it unlimited for them?
i hate it
@E.LDunn Ikr? It sucks. 30k is starting salary here.
21:13
@RyanTernier @KyleTrauberman Okay, you two are properly circled. If you look through my post history you should see some posts where I talk about writing a site to Lews and Andre.
£26k is like $50k
@robjb hahaha, Dr. Kapenga! I got an A in Operating systems, to give you an idea of my skill level, I guess
(disclaimer: that's off my head)
@user1079641 there's usually 10 keys in msdn
so for 10 different computers?
21:14
@KyleTrauberman Sharepoint dev is the WORST. I hated just managing permissions on that pile.
that's nice!
Hey, in G+ i have like 50 images, how can I select All-> delete?
@zneak Lemme check
@Billdr tell me about it
@Pheonixblade9 You're telling me... I had him as PM and client for my senior design class
What a pita
21:14
Haha, wanna see my senior design? it might actually end up as a patent
i'm lucky enough to work mostly with apps that connect to sharepoint via the client om
@Pheonixblade9 Think I had an AB in that class
@zneak For euro it sucks.
@Pheonixblade9 Sure!
bah who stared that hahah
21:15
mostly mvc apps
@LewsTherin that's a comfy living in the US, somewhere around the middle of the middle class
@Pheonixblade9 Ours was developing automated Lithium-Ion battery testing software for the SunSeeker
@robjb I ended up 3rd in the class for computer engineering, so I guess I'm above average. not crazy, though. but the 1st and 2nd ranked guys still don't have jobs, and I got a job over spring break... so there ya go
@robjb nice, my friend Byron did a lot with that
So you can see why we ended up with Kapenga as a client
I'm so moving to US :D
21:15
@LewsTherin do ettt!
Well thanks for the advice, guys. Very helpful. :)
I did the Android app and most of the documentation/graphics/writing for the report.
as a "us alien", I'd like to say that there's a lot of bad stuff going on here
@KyleTrauberman If I pretend to be Indian, might just work?
@zneak ?
21:16
and that you'll have to get used to creationnist bullshit in Congress
and lawmakers that think angels, as physical beings, exist
and that evolution and the big bang are lies straight from the pit of hell
and that when a woman is "raped for real", her body has ways to not fall pregnant
@LewsTherin no pretending required
@Pheonixblade9 Pretty cool ... most of the circuit diagrams are over my head though :(
AND you'll be in the country that started ACTA, SOPA+PIPA, and the TPP
I forgot that.
@LewsTherin I'm trying to get OUT of the US
21:18
Ok I'm happy to stay here lol
Especially if Mittney wins
that guy is incredible
@robjb oh god yes
if mitt wins
how can he get 50% of voting intentions while being, well, himself
I'm joining @rlemon and @kendallfrey in canadurr
21:19
if he wins I'll seriously consider running back to good ol Canada
Canada here I come!
even with Stephen Harper there
I feel that we really shouldn't talk about politics.
Yeeea, I kinda agree.
actually, if mitt wins, I'm saving up to move to japan
or the UK
basically anywhere but here
@Pheonixblade9 Let me know if you start hiring any .NET people, I'm open to relocating ;)
21:21
dont come here kyle
but don't you folks love 'merican accents?
haha i guess the ladies do, but you`ll soon get fed up of being here
just like we love english accents
I love british humor
@E.LDunn Why's that?
21:22
I would love the british accent if I was able to understand it lol
England is my #1 choice if I leave the country
I love the British accent.
Off to do some actual coding. It was fun, guys. I'll be back. :)
take care
@LewsTherin Ever heard Geordie?
21:23
@robjb Like Cheryl?
lol i was just about to ask if americans really do think we all speak like the queen
I was actually referring to Benedict Cumberbatch depiction in Sherlock.
He has such a cultured accent.
@LewsTherin I don't know who Cheryl is, but I listened to a Geordie recording and thought they were speaking Vortigaunt
Cheryl Cole. Everyone hates her because she has a Geordie accent.
I don't. She is hot.
21:29
@LewsTherin That's not the kinda accent I was talking about lol ... what I heard was a recorded conversation between two elderly Brits, and there wasn't a word I could understand in the whole thing
let me know when you copy it so I can remove it from chat
@Pheonixblade9 copied
we have a ton of Michiganders here. My boss went to U of M
@robjb Lol, not sure. Paste a link to an example?
aww i wanna move to seattle
21:30
@E.LDunn it's pretty cool here :) lots of jobs.
@LewsTherin Found it -> youtube.com/watch?v=AhHLmhchLrU
Intel is hiring like crazy for their tablet division
give me job :D
@Pheonixblade9 I'll send when I get home this evening
I interviewed with them for a post-silicon validation position
21:31
@robjb Brb
@robjb cool, I'll forward it along
@robjb I won't hold it against you that you can't understand my circuit diagrams (even if they are beautiful :P )
I just whipped out an eCommerce app I wrote for Amway when I was interviewed here, I think the interview was sealed after that, lol
I always bring my laptop with code samples with me to interviews
Nice ... I will keep that in mind
Also, put anything that you're not ashamed of up on github. When I interviewed with Zillow, they asked for that
Lol, whenever I post something from my blog on Reddit, my traffic goes up 1000%
@Pheonixblade9 Yes, have been meaning to do that. I'm pretty sure that's why I was turned down after interview w/ chess.com
@Pheonixblade9 that's because reddit
21:38
Alright, leaving for the day, hour long drive ahead of me -_-
@robjb I have some pretty crazy stuff up on my website, but I don't get to update it often. I'm pretty proud of this: isthisonthetest.com/?q=node/13
@robjb catch ya later
I'll leave you all with this image of wisdom
@Pheonixblade9 Bookmarked, ttyl
thats soo cool
I'll leave you all with this image of wisdom:
:)
@E.LDunn why don't you move to Seattle, if you want to come here? though I suggest moving after the spring :P
21:46
Hiya @SpecialK.
i would love too, but it takes money
I have to make a percentage from this string "0.5", it returns me correct format by parsing it, which is 50%, but if the user is from Finland for example, it will return 500%, it is correct to use System.Globalization.CultureInfo.InvariantCulture.NumberFormat in order to return 50% no matter what's his localization ?
what is it parsed into?
a 0.5 double?
it's probably right to use the invariant culture to return 50% though, just make sure that Finnish people don't expect a 500 per-thousand value
21:49
float.Parse("0.5"); currentlyu won't work if the user is from a country that use , as a decimal divider
oh that's a parsing issue rather than a formatting issue right?
sorry if I missed that
no, it's formatting issue
I just didn't include the whole thing
@E.LDunn what's your technical level? tons of people hiring out here.
string.Format("Commission Rate: {0:P0}", float.Parse("0.5"));
and it prints 500% and not 500‰?
21:51
it prints 500% instead of 50%
@SpecialK. take a look at this:
It's for a Windows Phone application
double value = .086;
Console.WriteLine(value.ToString("#0.##%", CultureInfo.InvariantCulture));
// Displays 8.6%
so this is the string Format I'm using, I have added invariant culture, and it seems to work fine now
21:52
@Pheonixblade9 lowest of the low, but im not willing to do any ms exams till i know where there heading
@Pheonixblade9 thanks, it works.
who was missing kendall earlier?
Has anyone here ever used VS's hex editor?
@E.LDunn MS exams mean pretty much diddly squat here. Maybe at bigger companies. We care about previous projects and if you're BSing, or if you know what you're doing
oh hello @KendallFrey
nope, never used it
22:01
It works in an emergency :)
I have Kendall*
Can anyone help me with my question, I've posted it 2 days ago..
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13054708/what-is-the-best-way-to-route-paths-in-a-large-grid
are you trying to do flocking?
@IslamMoustafa I'll look in a few seconds. BRB
otherwise, that's a very, very hard problem
and I feel that some constraints are missing
for instance, do you just want a path, or you want to minimize the length of each path too?
22:06
@zneak, Thank you waiting for your reply.. :)
@Pheonixbla9, Thank you waiting for your reply.. :)
so do you want just paths or do you want to minimize the length of each path?
@zneak, I want a bunch of paths for each pair with a maximum length..
Okay, am I going in the right direction with the current algorithm? or should I consider another one..
I dunno, that's a very hard problem lol
for instance, if at some point you block, that doesn't mean there's no route, it just means that considering the previous routes we've chosen there's no more possibilities
I would try a modified version of the A* algorithm
to find the paths
@KendallFrey !!!
... i missed you
you left for the day and I have to talk to Kyle!
it was torture
lol
@rlemon admit it, you enjoyed our time together.
22:15
Yeah but my current algorithm block only if there is no routes at all with the conditions and pairs I provided. I mean after trying all the available possibilities that's why it take a huge time if it is used in large grids
yes, and that's precisely why you can't use it
you need to find something better
@rlemon !!!!!
and that's the really hard part of your problem lol
that worked!
I've tried to enhance it by using yield return so that the functions can return output faster but still huge time..
22:16
	<location path="/import/fileupload">
		<system.web>
			<authorization>
				<allow users="*"/>
			</authorization>
		</system.web>
	</location>
^ added that to web.config and it worked
no longer requires auth for file uploads
@Billdr no!
@Billdr :P
@zneak, I don't know about A* algorithm but I'll read about it.
@KyleTrauberman sorry was in other room and ignoring pings. yes I lied. I am sorry...... will you forgive me?
@IslamMoustafa, it helps finding the shortest path
@rlemon fine. I suppose.
22:20
:D
good, I can breathe now
I know, but do you think it will lessen the time of the algorithm or it just find the routes may be in the same time of the old one.
@zneak, because the one I used know finds the routes successfully for any grid even large ones, but its problem is that it takes ages to do that.. :)
@IslamMoustafa I have not used AI much but if the grid gets large I think AI is the only option
if the process of finding a route is the longest thing, then A* will almost definitely help
You will not be guaranteed any global min/max
A* is great at finding the shortest path real fast
22:26
@zneak It looks good
I used it several times before for several different graph pathfinding problems
@zneak, Ok I'll try to use it and modify on it. but does it excel in huge grid, and by huge I mean like 16x16x2..?
yes
16x16x2 is not that huge
@JohanLarsson, ok but can you tell me any resources that I can begin with..?
22:29
I used it on 512x512 grids with very decent performance (to find single paths at least)
@IslamMoustafa, A* is a form of AI
Hi is there anyone who can help me on Autopostback problem in asp.net or c#
@IslamMoustafa Start with zneaks stuff (zneak>Johan)
lol
@zneak, WOW.. :)
My algorithm finds 1 path in like 400 second in 16x16 grid, it can take like ages it there is 2 paths..
22:30
That is really good and there are more courses by Stephen Boyd on Youtube
if you use breadth-first search, it's almost certain that it takes ages
you're taking every single closest point until you find your destination
A* works by specifying a heuristic function that tells how close you are to your destination
@zneak, I will try to use it in the next few days and I'll update my question, Thank you. But please if you find any related resources let me know.. :)
in your case that would just be the distance between a given point and your destination point
I've got thousands of things on my mind, don't get your hopes too high for more help lol
@IslamMoustafa do you choose the start points?
anyways I'm going
have fun guys
22:34
@JohanLarsson, yes you give it a set of pairs of nodes (Start, End) like (9,4) and (12,13)
so how is everyone this fine friday evening/night?
Installing Win 8!
And done!
a little drunk but other than that ok
LOL
Looks like a lot more than drunk
little drunk + jammed keyboard on laptop == a lot
22:46
lol
@LewsTherin I can join your project if you want me but dont expect much
You should ask Billdr. He is the man not me
johan do people ever tell you, you look like lex from smallville
Unless you are looking for over design & antipatterns
@E.LDunn I think Lews did
22:47
I have more a radio face than a tv face though :)
Oct 7 at 16:07, by Lews Therin
@JohanLarsson You have an uncanny resemblance to Michael Rosenbaum (Lex Luthor :P)
how did you find it so fast?
Lol
I remembered "uncanny resemblance to Michael"
That did it :P
I have only watched Smallville a couple of minutes once, felt the urge to slit my wrists almost instantly
22:50
Why?
It is such a good show.
Maybe I should not be the judge but I did not like it
but I don't watch much tv 80% crap and worse
:O
I agree, but 20% is awesome.
Or at least passable
Have you watched Eastbound & Down I found that funny, especially when tired/drunk
22:54
Nope, not my type of show
What do you like other than Smallville?
I liked Oz
Stargate (all of it), Fringe, Heroes, Doctor Who, Supernatural, White Collar, The Vampire Diaries, Arrow
House
Planet Earth should be mentioned
Revolution
@JohanLarsson Documentary :O
I rarely watch documentaries
@LewsTherin I can actualy stand house, one of the few things I dont insta zap away from
@LewsTherin You can watch it just because it is so high end
22:58
Win 8 good to go.
@JohanLarsson House is awesome. Too bad is over.
@LewsTherin I dont recall ever seeing any of them but they are probably translated to something strange in Swedish
if (sentence.Contains("Win 8") && sentence.Contains("good"))
{
    throw new WtfException();
}

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