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17:00
i wish there were a way to sort....holy crap...lol
sort what
the tables in this view
im connecting to a database that has a ton of tables...im looking for a specific table
@Skullomania It should be alphabetical?
it looks as though its listing the ks before the a's and b's
@Skullomania wat
17:03
one sec...let me send a pic..i need to hide some labels and info tho
@Skullomania Select the wizard and press ALT+Prtscrn
or download snagit
;)
i have snagit
@Steve i got Steveit
I going home
Steve will fix all your stuff.
17:06
lol
o/ :D
@Skullomania my company makes snagit :)
kick ass man!
right? I think so! I've never worked on it though
or even seen the code base
17:07
oh you imported ALL of your tables?
lol
i get it now
lol
:)
Stevie's mom has got it goin' on...
one day the new car scent will wear off...im hopeful
I have a winform app in C# with a DataGridView. For one of the columns in my DataGridView it is set to use ComboBox. However, how can I set the properties programmatically
17:08
@ton.yeung
I fixed that stupid service, bah.
@Tommo1977 what exactly you want to do
@VSharma I think I've got it working, 1 sec
@Steve I think I see the option you were talking about...now do I select the model.edmx and convert it to domain model
dataGridView1.Rows[e.RowIndex].Cells["COLUMN_ID"] by this way you can reach to combonbox cell.
17:17
Any good .NET business rules engines out there?
@RyanTernier BizTalk Business Rules Engine :)
ahahaha... no
WWF though
WWF?
windows workflow foundation
what about it?
you considering that as an alternative? I hear it has a rules engine
BRE is cursed tbh
It has no connection to BizTalk except that:
- it ships in the setup package for BizTalk Server
- you need a BizTalk Server licence to run it (why?)
The gui is also rubbish
17:22
@TomW Are you speaking about the Biztalk Rules Engine.
yeah
WWF doesn't need the BRE though
I didn't say it did
Quick question on generics.

Why would one do this:
        protected IResult SubmitMessage<Message, Response>(Response result, Message     message)
            where Message : IMessage
            where Response : IMessageResponse

When they could do this:
        protected IResult SubmitMessage(IMessageResponse result, IMessage     message)
        {
am I missing something, or did they just do extra work for complexities sake?
@Skullomania entity framework has little to do with domain models, according to DDD
17:24
@RyanTernier My immediate hunch is explicit interface implementation
But I haven't thought that through yet
the bottom one would also be explicit... no?
They are subtly different
@RyanTernier They will get actual types, not the interfaces
so you can get more information
The generic version enforces the interface implementation but doesn't actually type the method as receiving those interfaces
but it's probably useless, and a misunderstanding of generics
esp. since they are returning IResult :p
17:26
@ReedCopsey precisely.
That's it. The top version prevents methods that are implemented explicitly from being called on those parameters, unless you cast them
esp. since they're not using it in the return types, or setting an out param, etc
Why you'd want to do that, I don't know
@ReedCopsey That's what I was thinking. I can understand using the where clause on a class/interface delcaration but on function declarations it's a bit weird.
yep - most cases like that I've seen it's somebody not understanding how generics works ;)
17:28
No, it can make good sense on function declarations sometimes.
var mockDep = Mock.Of<ExternalDependency>();
// or
var mockDep = new Mock<ExternalDependency>();
(moq takes it both ways, the filthy library)
well, that's a different case - the return type is based on the parameter
in this case, it's returning an interface in either case... so it doesn't make as much sense
true.
that probably has a new constraint, as well
completely agree with you there.
Though I've found this to help:
public void AttachCertificate<T>(System.ServiceModel.ClientBase<T> service, X509Certificate certificate)
            where T : class
silly I have to do that to make it work (Unless there's a better way). The types I put into T don't inherit from anything, they're auto-gen types based off of XSD files
I kept scrolling, hoping for some sanity in that code. There was none.
Whenever I hear someone discussing "Proper exception handling" I always imagine that's what their code looks like.
Their descriptions are usually a TL;DR summation of an article they read and completely missed the point on.
On Error Goto Next
simple
Heh. I worked at a place where one of the "top devs" wrapped every WCF call in a try catch block.
Every. Single. One.
@SpencerRuport This is what I inherited.... (4x longer just not pasting it)
  catch (Exception e)
            {
                Type eType = e.GetType();
                if (eType == typeof (OrganizationIDMismatchException))
                {
                    //Unauthorized 401
                    log(LogEventTypeEnum.Information, ExceptionBuilder.BuildExceptionStack(e));
                    Document.BuildDataAccessRejectedResponse("HIALMessaging");
                    AuditTransactionStatus = TransactionStatus.Unauthorized;
17:50
Oh god.
every "error" type has it's own functionality and logging, but yea...
@RyanTernier wait, what?
"Business logic does not belong in the catch block".
That's, like, C# 101.
    There's a possibility of 18 error's that get returned. THere's an "Else" for each one. The last "Final else" Is and I quote:
else
                    {
                        //How the hell did it go into here. Give a bad message, do something bad, WTF. CALL RYAN OR PATRICK!!
                        //Any exception we don't know what it is, it's an actual failure, so make it a big red X. DO it. do it now!
                        log(LogEventTypeEnum.Failed, ExceptionBuilder.BuildExceptionStack(e));
I cry whenever I see that. Luckily that's getting deleted during this release and upgrade form .nET 2.0 to .net 4.0
haha
Well, we're moving to 4.0, because we have a risk that we might need to deploy the next version on server 2003
however after that I'm pushing it up to 4.5.2
<3 Government enterprise applications /cry
Still dealing with IE 6 support?
Hasn't 2003 reached end-of-life?
17:56
hello everyone. just a quick question. trying asp.net vnext in windows 10 vm (latest) and in vs 2015 preview (latest) and it is all really slow, so is it windows, visual studio, or...? i am using in on my computer in hyper-v vm and also i tried it in azure with about 4gb ram vm and the same issue. really slow... what is especially slow is runing the app - takes a few minutes to deploy and open ie! any tips? thnx
@SpencerRuport Nope, Ie7 /cry
@b0x0rz - What's the nature of your app? Just a little demo project?
@Squiggle May 2015 for enterprises
yeah. currently just a demo, one controller.
Currently, every "release" we do is a 4-8 hours process. In my new world everything is modular and can be released in a few minutes.
17:58
@RyanTernier ouch - 4.0 is going out of support in a year, too ;0
Operations will still want to take a day though.
@ton.yeung yeah not likely soon :P but maybe i can give it a go soon
@ReedCopsey I know. but government doesn't move as fast as I want them too, and I'm already considered a cowboy at the office haha
3 years ago I said "Why are you upgrading our hardware to 64-core servers with 256gb ram, when we're still on server 2003? " "becuase this ticket is for hardware upgrade, not software"
When you say "government" do you mean central government? or civil service?
Ministry of Health - BC
18:00
my condolences.
My software runs on Servers which are managed by another company (HP) who hates CGI because they want our business because we took it from them when I came on board.
also, it's 7pm. Way past home time. Seeya, suckers!
Cheers man.
lol @Squiggle
lol
maybe it'll happen
but I'm not holding my breath - otherwise, it'll be 4.5.2+ to be supported
but, tbh, it should be that anyways, since any OS that is supported will be able to run that
the end of date is the same as the end of life date for XP embedded :)
18:03
k, if no one has tried win10/vs2015 in vm's i'll also head out :D cheers all and now that i know there is a chat here, i'll be back ;) muhahahaa
I'm just waiting for Windows 10. Hopefully that gives everyone a good kick in the pants to get their websites updated away from IE7/8/9
@b0x0rz I am running Win 10 on my surface and PC (not a VM) with VS 2015 installed. works like a charm
oh k.@RyanTernier will try it on an actual box then, thnx
It's quite stable. The only issue i have on my surface is it will lose internet at the office and not want to connect unless I restart it. IT has an issue with the WiFi here - but never at my house or with my hotspot
i think that is the surface issue that drags on for a bit by microsoft updates, no? ;) @RyanTernier
@ReedCopsey Enterprise /extended support for .net lasts longer than mainstream support though.
Deadline Summary

.NET 4.x, 4.5, 4.5.1: January 12, 2016
.NET 3.5 SP 1: January 13, 2015 (Mainstream Support)
.NET 3.5 SP 1: January 14, 2020 (Extended Support)
.NET 4.5.2: January 9, 2018 (Mainstream Support)
.NET 4.5.2: January 10, 2023 (Extended Support)
18:07
.net 4.0 doesn't have extended support
ohhh really?
why wouldn't it when 3.5 does!?
extended support is upgrade to .net 4.5.2 - there will be no support of .net 4-4.5.1 after Jan. 12, 2016
because 3.5 is a separate CLR
hahaha <3 it
that makes sense
so CLR 4.0 is going 4.5.2+ and CLR 2 is going to be 3.5.1
they're not supporting 3.0 or 3.5 either :)
basically, you'll have to upgrade your frameworks off 2003/XP supported ones, or be unsupported
18:09
Server 2003 should be gone by July this year. My software will be released (some time) around that. At that point I'm upgrading the version to 4.5.2 in code
was fun
twas fun
JS was a bad choice
@KendallFrey :O
heathen!
18:11
@ReedCopsey eh? no support for 4.5.1, what does that mean, am i screwed?
JS was great for the structural part of the code, but the numeric part was problematic
omg somebody answer me about 4.5.1, lol, should i not be migrating solutions to that version?
maybe i dont know what extended support is
@Steve it means you'll need to migrate to 4.5.2 or later
which is an in-place upgrade, so it's basically easy - just install the new framework
@ReedCopsey migrate the installation or the code?
I don't really get what it means for a version of .NET to be "supported"
it's really an installer issue, though I'd also recompile and test using it, too
18:18
@KendallFrey i don't either, i'm freaking out trying to figure it out
lol
@ReedCopsey but it won't affect any existing code?
@KendallFrey well, it's the runtime itself - in theory, 4.5.2 and 4.6 are in place upgrades - so if you install that framework, stuff written for 4.0 should "just work"
but there are some edge case compat issues
I have a feeling .NET support is like XP support. Once it's gone, you can keep using it, but if you have problems, you're screwed.
basically
how are current .net versions 'supported', they fix bugs and keep the same version #? that doesn't make sense
sorry for the noobish questions :)
18:21
Let's have a noob day today
how do I make a const variable with user input
4
This makes me feel terrible: fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/092/d/5/…
readonly ish?
haha my company is bringing in massage therapists to give us all massages
</idkHowImSoLucky>
With happy ending @Steve?
if only
lol, i should be professional, so i will not say what i want to
i know, i miss his vulgarity
My company in nevada certainly doesn't
@ton.yeung what kind of benefit?
18:33
indeed
I have heard about it but dunno if it is true.
Buying sex is illegal in Sweden. Selling is not.
IANAL
lolwat
I think it's the opposite in Canada
I think that is what the law says. Only the buyer is punished.
No expert though.
@JohanLarsson oh my bad, yeah I read it backwards
<- must afk
18:36
@ton.yeung As long as you're the one making money, you're fine
Forth is an imperative stack-based computer programming language and programming environment. Language features include structured programming, reflection (the ability to modify the program structure during program execution), concatenative programming (functions are composed with juxtaposition) and extensibility (the programmer can create new commands). Although not an acronym, the language's name is sometimes spelled with all capital letters as FORTH, following the customary usage during its earlier years. A procedural programming language without type checking, Forth features both interactive...
Hello All
    Is it possible to pass a value like this:
     assetList.Add(new Asset(){
					 AssetGuid = new Guid(),
					 AllFlows = GetAllFlows(AssetGuid)
					 });
18:48
yes, but you need a closing parenthesis
The AssetGuid variable is not recognized on the second line of the code.
Asset must not have a public writable property named AssetGuid
Well this is irritating: dotnetfiddle.net/K4BZvc
It does have a public writable property called AssetGuid.
what's the error message?
18:51
@KendallFrey The error message is "Cannot Resolve Symbol AssetGuid"
@ton.yeung - Weird huh?
Took me forever to track that down.
@abhi Is this a C# error or a R# error?
If it's a C# error, what's the error number?
@SpencerRuport - There are two instances of the list. One from class instantiation in the deserializer, and one from testObj
@TravisJ You've confused me
How can one variable contain two values?
@TravisJ - Regardless, it shouldn't happen... right?
ReadOnly should mean read only.
18:55
readonly doesn't affect it
It is readonly
a readonly List can have items added to it
Let me try to make it more visible
you can't swap the list out, but you can change it
First, note that removing readonly exhibits the same behavior
Now see the duplication: dotnetfiddle.net/fD0ccS
By defining the list in the class's definitions you are causing it to include those values in the serializer.
18:59
@KendallFrey The C# error text is "AssetGuid doesn't exist in current context"/
@abhi sscce plz
wow, where have I been dotnetfiddle, never knew about that site, that's great.
@abhi oh, you mean on the second line
@prospector - Yeah, I really like it to. If you are in to mvc, click the mvc template.
19:03
yeah, property initializers don't work that way
I'm getting into MVC, starting to learn it on my next project. I've been doing webforms for years, but It seems like MVC is the way to go now
Yes, that is correct @KendallFrey
I've been using CShell to test code without running VS, but I like this fiddle site to share stuff.
@KendallFrey - Interesting that using a wrapper for the collection causes the serializer to work differently.
@TravisJ It's not about the wrapper
19:06
Ah okay
It's abut the readonly
That makes more sense.
Thanks guys
This is the sscce --> dotnetfiddle.net/k5129t
@KendallFrey - So you are saying the other collection was not readonly?
eww... I have to drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee for a week
19:07
@prospector what is CShell?
@Pheonixblade9 - I like SUV's :)
@TravisJ The object wasn't, no
@TravisJ it's so big and boring and complicated
CShell is an interactive C# scripting environment. It allows you to use C# without any fluff right in a console like environment called a read-eval-print-loop (REPL). Your code is directly evaluated and executed in a shell window, no separate executable has to be compiled and then run in a different process. More elaborate code can be written in a C# script and then evaluated as one file, only one line, or a selection.
@KendallFrey - Sorry, you are incorrect. dotnetfiddle.net/a0gA10
19:08
@TravisJ oh I figured out the stock thing btw
@Pheonixblade9 - Cool, what ended up happening?
basically I can exercise my shares if I want, but common stock won't get any money from the acquisition.
@KendallFrey - You realize I rewrote a serializer right?
even our CEO isn't exercising his options
Hi, I am getting select() is not a function error in console :/
19:09
@prospector - Yeah MVC is the way to go. Even more specifically, MVC with an MVVM client side templating engine like Angular.js or Knockout.js
@TravisJ No, I'm pretty sure I am correct, but the reason it behaves as it does I'm guessing is because the serializer doesn't recognize the collection type
@Pheonixblade9 - Oh okay cool, that makes sense.
when I do this: $("#Title").data('kendoComboBox').dataSource.select(0);
yeah, I was pretty sure they weren't doing anything illegal, that would be dumb
@KendallFrey - Nope, there is no readonly in the example I linked. The new instance of the array is what causes the change in your version.
19:09
@SpencerRuport I'm going to watch some pluralsight videos on it tonight when I get done working
@prospector I got LINQPAd for this.
@KendallFrey - There is nothing accurate about saying readonly affected the serialization.
@Pheonixblade9 - So you can exercise your option right now?
I think you misinterpreted me
@Pheonixblade9 - And then get shares with no value since they are in your current company, right?
@TravisJ yes, but there is going to be 0 cash allocated to common shareholders in the acquisition.
correct
19:11
@Pheonixblade9 - However, because it is an acquisition, you can convert those shares to shares in the new company.
Why not?
Is it a bad practice to have all my DataModels in 1 file?
@BenjaminDiele - Depends on how many there are.
@BenjaminDiele - I have like 30 of them in 1 file for mapping purposes.
@KendallFrey - Oh. Can you restate it?
8 at the moment, but growing every week
19:12
Fine for now.
aight, thanks
@KendallFrey - I think this is what @TravisJ is pointing out: dotnetfiddle.net/TlAC66
I remove the readonly property but it doesn't create a new readonly collection for me. SOMEOTHERLIST should deserialize to Goodbye,AOL
@TravisJ The idea was that if the collection is readonly, it can't be modified. The fiddle didn't only demonstrate that, it was a quick lame example
@BenjaminDiele Depends on the size of the project.
@abhi What size aspect? LOC? Files? Scope?
19:14
How mnay models in the file?
I think it's still small, but that's why I ask. Right now it's still easy to switch stuff
@SpencerRuport - ...
Console.WriteLine("SOMELIST: " + string.Join(",", testObj.SOMELIST));
Console.WriteLine("SOMEOTHERLIST: " + string.Join(",", testObj.SOMELIST));
right now 8, but I'm adding 2 today
my file is about 400 lines long
yeah yeah just noticed.
>_<
@TravisJ By changing that to use List instead of collection, the original behaviour is restored. I'm not sure what passing an array in vs using a collection initializer has to do with it. Or did I misunderstand you?
19:15
If you are comfortable navigating through the contents of the file, then you're good. Else time to split them.
@KendallFrey - Using a new object inside of the instance creation is the difference.
@SpencerRuport - Kind of changes the results ;)
@TravisJ - I haven't done any programming in about 2.5 months. I feel super rusty haha
@TravisJ I don't understand what that means
Keep making silly mistakes.
@KendallFrey - The collection uses a new array in its definition. The List does not. Internally the deserializer is using reflection, and it treats them differently.
19:19
@TravisJ Using an array in the list definition gives the same results as using an initializer
No, it doesn't. Did you look at the fiddle I showed you earlier?
Why are these attributes split per line? Can't you use them on 1 line but seperated by commas?
    [Required]
    [StringLength(50)]
    [Display(Name = "Last Name")]
    public string LastName { get; set; }
@BenjaminDiele - There are different, you cannot combine them I believe.
@TravisJ The one with Collection?
@BenjaminDiele They're different function attributes
19:21
Oh, so you can't combine those?
@BenjaminDiele - I don't think so, no.
Guys, I figured out what I was doing wrong before when trying to default to blank space. My corrections are 1) add the new text or empty string to the datasource in my viewmodel 2) Then select it in my js function call
finally urgh
@KendallFrey - Yes. Odd though, as yours just now exhibits the problematic behavior.
What determines if they are different though? Because I have this on my current datamodel
It seems that List will cause duplication but Collection not =/
19:21
    [Key, ForeignKey("Premise")]
    public int AddressId { get; set; }
@TravisJ That's what I tried to tell you
Kind of ruins the new object theory.
@KendallFrey - Why would List cause duplication?
13 mins ago, by Kendall Frey
@TravisJ No, I'm pretty sure I am correct, but the reason it behaves as it does I'm guessing is because the serializer doesn't recognize the collection type
probably only serializes arrays and lists
@KendallFrey - You can see it serialize the collection though.
see it how
19:23
@KendallFrey - It serializes the collection. dotnetfiddle.net/IrpTVO
uhhhh
based on what evidence is that statement made
You think Collection<string> is something else?
ok, you are right, it is serialized
{"SOMELIST":["Hello","World"]}
@TravisJ - Are you saying with the List it's keeping the collection initialized at runtime and adding to it whereas with the ReadOnlyCollection it's instantiating a new collection?
I change my guess to "not deserialized"
19:27
I feel like testObj2.SOMELIST and testObj2.SOMEOTHERLIST should deserialize to equivalent collections.
I'm trying to find the relevant code
Fixed label issue: dotnetfiddle.net/fD0ccS
Why does it decide to add to the List rather than just deserialize a new collection and then assign it to the SOMEOTHERLIST property?
I can't tell for sure, but I'm pretty sure it only deserializes to IList by default
@SpencerRuport because changing the field could cause problems, I expect
@KendallFrey - But that's what it does with the ReadOnlyCollection
I don't think it worries about changing the field
19:35
@SpencerRuport it... does?
I thought it ignores deserializing to it
@KendallFrey - Look at my fiddle: testObj2.SOMELIST: Goodbye,AOL
It's not ignoring the ReadOnlyCollection. It replaces it.
I do think it's a bit weird for a deserialization to append to an existing collection.
If it can't replace the collection for some reason it shouldn't mess with it IMO.
Hence my initial confusion.
Can I get some assistance...
I just had the weirdest thing happen with my internet. I couldn't send any data, nor load any new pages, but all my SO sockets were valid. It was like I was trapped, able to watch but not do anything.
19:41
@SpencerRuport - I wish we had the code for the deserializer
Does this look correct?
var token = Regex.Split(transaction, "**~***");
subscription = token.FirstOrDefault(t => t.Contains("(")).Split('(')[1];
If out of this token array I want to return the item within the (?
Have you tried running it through regexhero.net/tester ? I don't know regexes, but thats a pretty nifty testing tool
@SpencerRuport I think by default it adds to a collection, but if it's readonly or null, it creates a new one.
I'm sure James Newton-King would be able to answer your question properly
@KendallFrey - But a collection without readonly doesn't get added to. Only the list. Very strange. The odd thing is that the actual instance list is modified too.
Disregard the instance list comment. I was looking at too many things at once I think.
That might have something to do with it
19:48
Yeah this seems really weird to me: dotnetfiddle.net/ikNyiT
Put that way, it does
thedailywtf.com/articles/classic-wtf-the-long-way - wonder if he's talking about guys who wrote my software long ago
Anyone have a twitter and want to ask James about it? twitter.com/JamesNK -> dotnetfiddle.net/fffQYK
@SpencerRuport - I would ask on main, it is a good question
main?
On SO you mean?
19:54
yeah
@SpencerRuport - dotnetfiddle.net/FKeBLn
Somewhere, the type is being used to determine the ObjectCreationHandling (which @Kendall alluded to earlier)
More highlighted dotnetfiddle.net/pEjN44

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