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10:00 AM
and people just think on the $ signs
 
@Sippy Look, Apple fucked up again, just today. This is why I don't keep track.
Now they are bricking phones and tablets at updates. Go Apple! Whooh!
 
hahahahahaha
poor steve jobs if he saw the company today
btw do you agree what apple did in that terrorist case?
remember that network guy I talked about that doesnt do shit here all day long?
 
Not breaking their own business? Yeah, that was sensible.
Still you have to wonder, they apparently can do that which is bad in and by itself.
Still, everyone will just sing praises about their stance.
And ignore any related truths that might be inconvenient.
 
I am divided. I get why they refused, they couldnt loose the trust of the clients I get that. but the world is turning to shit cause of terrorism, they killed innocent people and who knows if the hadnt more plans attacked there could be info n that phone that could help to save lifes
 
Yeah it's either all or nothing. Either allow everyone and everything to spy on what you do, or nobody. I choose the latter.
But the bigger problem, really, is that Apple is apparently capable of pushing firmware onto a Phone, while it is locked, so remove the locking mechanism. That is incoherent and wrong. In proper security, you wouldn't be able to even patch the system when locked, and all files would be locked with the PIN as well.
Therefore, their security is questionable at best, anyway.
 
10:13 AM
They are capable, but have proven that they aren't willing to do so even when the FBI suggest that they do it via lawsuit.
Unless that's how the Israeli company did it
 
Oh yes, absolutely, but that means that there is an inherently weak component and it's only a matter of time for someone to break and sell that particular way around.
Which is quite possible what has happened, indeed.
 
That sounds difficult to break.
Actually no it isn't.
like it is, but the only remaining problem is still just the encryption bits
 
@Sippy I thought they insisted it wasn't possible but even so they weren't even going to research how to
 
The FBI's suggested solution in terms of their wording wasn't possible
 
Maybe that was the newer model
 
10:15 AM
They won't research a way around it, but one exists.
They know it.
They would be stupid not to.
Apple are far from stupid.
 
Well, analyzing what I know, you need the private key of Apple to push new firmware onto the phone. Let's consider this impossible for now. We don't know how to sign nor break the SSL at this point. What we do know is that after firmware pushing and removing the PIN requirement, files can be read. Therefore, it is possible to read the files using some sort of proprietary reading format, and it is not dependent on the user PIN to unlock. So.. if you know how, you should be able to.
That particular bit of knowledge is undoubtedly hard to obtain, but not impossible.
@Sippy Actually, AFAIK, BitLocker has no way around it. You could cry and rage all you want, but you wouldn't be able to get to the files. So, I consider Apple stupid by having a way while in reality, there should be no possible way to ever get to the files.
 
Electronmicrographing a microprocessor while it's running and still physically attached the device is probably at this point impossible, but were you to devise a method, this will all become moot again
 
Cellebrite Mobile Synchronization is an Israeli company that manufactures data extraction, transfer and analysis devices for cellular phones and mobile devices. The company is a subsidiary of Japan's Sun Corporation. == Overview == Cellebrite is headquartered in Petah Tikva, Israel. Its two subsidiary companies, Cellebrite USA Corp. and Cellebrite GmbH are respectively based in Parsippany, New Jersey, US, and Paderborn, Germany. Cellebrite is a fully owned subsidiary of Sun Corporation, a publicly traded company listed on JASDAQ (6736/JQ) based in Nagoya, Japan. Cellebrite has two busines...
They broke into the iPhone of a terrorist for the FBI. :)
 
Which is bad, because a method exists.
And it applies to all phones in existence running iOS
 
I agree to a point
I don't really know exactly where I stand with it.
I personally don't give a shit if people look at my personal files and information
If my government feel like reading my browser history, they're the ones who gonna get scarred.
It only becomes a problem if my government use that information to impersonate me in any way.
To me, personally.
The fact that there is an exploitable hole in something that a less savory individual could use to read my information is not exactly a good thing
I guess it's always a bad thing, cos no mechanism you employ to get around your own authentication is 100% secure.
 
10:24 AM
A search warrant should be part of PKI. The device should be able to authenticate and respond to search warrants as a cryptographic mechanism
Like SSL and code signing
 
That would introduce more potential exploits though surely
 
Would it?
Is PKI flawed? How?
Legitimately asking the question. If certificates are exploitable then a lot of stuff is screwes
Legitimately asking the question. If certificates are exploitable then a lot of stuff is screwed
 
I honestly think you would just have to require the user of the device to unlock the device (with a valid and proper warrant, because otherwise go fuck yourself police), rather than trying to come up with a cryptographic solution that undoubtedly weakens your system and allows chinese foreign invasion.
If the user happens to be dead, tough.
 
resharper is having a party
@RoelvanUden I disagree that that's a suitable outcome
 
Do you see duplicate messages when I make edits?
 
10:29 AM
@TomW I did for that one
Can't tell if SO Chat is fucked or my office internet is fucked today
 
I get it a lot.
Only on mobile
 
Ah
 
@RoelvanUden Passwords and cripto keys stored in some location protected a a key or password in your will would be one way to go
 
@AlexL Not sure if troll
 
If you have a will, but again, that's a vulnerable spot.
@Sippy So long as technology is all or nothing, I chose all.
 
10:32 AM
@RoelvanUden true, It depends on your goal as a user, if you want your data to die with you
if you don't then there must be a point of trust
 
damn I lost all the discussion
T.T
sad life
 
@RoelvanUden I think the tradeoff is worth it
 
what was this chat app developed on?
 
Maybe one day there will be no tradeoff.
@Mr.Toxy GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGLE
23
Q: What technologies were used to build the chat?

Bill PaetzkeI realize there is a similar, broader question here. But the answer is old and does not include the chat technology. Let me know (even if they completely rolled their own). Thanks! I am most interested in how they implemented Comet (aka HTTP push) it in .NET.

 
oh fancy MVC
@Sippy THHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAANKKKKKKKKKKKKK YYYYYYYOOOOOU good sir
 
10:38 AM
You really need to learn to google.
 
ohhhh oki ur right will do
wow
In portugal the services like Jakob has suck T.T
they are of the same companies that provide the internet and tv and phone deals
there is nothing dedicated to just that
that sucks
 
Hi guys
 await sendMail();

    public static async Task sendmail()
        {
           await transportWeb.DeliverAsync(myMessage);
        }
can anybody explain me this line:await sendMail();
Does this line means that it will wait for this sendmail to complete?
 
It suspends execution of the async method until the awaited task has completed.
 
@Sippy
So this means if i have next line after sendmail it will not executed until this send mail finishes?
is this so
?
 
Yup
 
10:47 AM
what if i want next line to be excuted immedialtely wihtout waiting for this sendmail to complete
then what i have to do
 
Remove await.
 
?
and async too right?
 
No.
 
but method is synchronous until i dont add await in it
 
Tbh I'm just reading the docs
And yeah, you need await, I've just realised. If the method is an async method then it looks like it will run asynchronously whether you await it or not.
 
10:50 AM
transportWeb.DeliverAsync(myMessage);
This i synchronous right?
 
No.
Well, dunno. It could be.
I'd assume it's public static async Task DeliverAsync()
 
public Task DeliverAsync(ISendGrid message);
 
That would be synchronous then.
I'm not sure if running it as part of an async Task would make it asynchronous in that context though.
@Roel is that assumption correct
 
since you're talking about async
imagine if you have a function that takes some time to execute and it may lock the UI can you use await for that function or you just make a new thread?
 
Use await and don't touch threading in the Task
That's one of the lovely warm design decisions I loved about Android tbh
 
10:56 AM
sippy and for several functions? Do you use await for all will it be the same?
 
So many software packages - Visual Studio included - lock the UI when performing network operations
So fucking annoying
 
await sendMail();

    public static async Task sendmail()
        {
           await transportWeb.DeliverAsync(myMessage);
        }
 
I've used a new thread unfortunetly I didnt knew about await
 
so when this line will be executed:await sendMail();
 
If you do your own multithreading implementation, chances are you will get real confused real quick.
 
10:57 AM
I have like 7-8 functions
 
it will wait for it to be finsihed?
 
No Learnin
 
@Mr.Toxy
 
It will execute it async
@Mr.Toxy Turn them into tasks then
refactorise em
 
hmmmm it's an option yeah
the main concern is just not to get the UI locked
since the user can cancel the update and that will rollback the changes
 
10:58 AM
I'd go with Tasks.
docs for await even mention UI locking
 
public async Task<string> WaitAsynchronouslyAsync()
{
    await Task.Delay(10000);
    return "Finished";
}
that?
 
Yeah
 
they say it wont lock it
 
It will if you use threads
 
oh right
 
11:00 AM
Well, not if you make a thread
 
it wont only until the delay
 
But if you use the main thread in an async task it'll fuck it up
 
thats retarded. you will have to wait even if the fuction is done
 
Mhm
 
@Sippy yeah thats why I didnt use it, it would certainly become unresponsive
sippy wont tasks use await?
 
11:03 AM
@Sippy I dunno man.
Your stack must be entirely async for it to work anyway.
 
Sounds reasonable
Async is something I still don't fully understand, never implemented it.
 
i want my sendmail to run asynchronously and dont wait for it to finish
so my code is correct?
 
good morning, showed gf Sous Vide, now she want one ;S
 
I vouch for the new thread only not to the main thread becomes so "heavy"
 
@tweray yo
 
11:04 AM
moving my entire stack over to async was the best thing i ever did, made life so easy
 
morning
 
o/
 
async rules
 
@Learning If you wait on something you don't want to wait for...
Then no.
 
async is fantastync
 
11:05 AM
async is awesome, but please don't async everything
 
just go with a new thread Learning
 
^ no.
 
it's so damn easy to implement anyways
 
^ no no no no
You should almost never do new Thread unless you're really quite sure about WHY you're doing that.
 
for sending messages, I just push them into a queue and let another process distribute them.
 
11:05 AM
!!doge no, threading, async
 
    wow
so no threading async
 
fail
 
Also that. message queue :o
 
use commas ^
 
  wow
                many no
                       so  threading
such  async
 
11:06 AM
@RoelvanUden use await instead? or tasks? but tasks use await right?
 
\o/
 
@Mr.Toxy Not necessarily. Use TPL over threads (Task.Run)
You don't have to await it
 
@Roel if you open your own thread do you also have to explicitly close it?
 
You can...
 
new Thread make you hate yourself 9 out of 10 times
 
11:07 AM
@Sippy nope
wait
 
the other 1 time you simply never come back to the code base
 
actually
 
I'm 40% sure threads don't clean themselves up.
 
!!youtube thrift shop
 
you have to do it yourself.
 
11:07 AM
@Squiggle Something went on fire; status 403
 
It depends what the thread is doing
 
>:(
 
roflmao
 
@Sippy It'll run to the end, just like TPL, but you explicitly create a thread and it takes resources to do so. It's not one from the thread pool, nor does it return to the thread pool. Threads explicitly created are best for long-running operations where you need fine grained control over the thread execution model
 
@Sippy I actually changed itm now it's just an async worker
@RoelvanUden do something like this: public static async Task Wait2() ?
 
11:09 AM
That's just defining a function that creates a task to run.
Task.Run(() => Console.WriteLine("Whoo from another thread")); for example
Or hey, Parallel.For is awesome.
 
i want fire and forget send mail
thats it
@RoelvanUden:i dont want to wait for my sendmail to complete
 
then do it.
 
and yes I actually didnt made a new thread, just used a BackGroundWorker()
 
That's even worse, that's a component.
 
wich Im not certain if doent create a new thread anyways...
 
11:10 AM
It does and does some funky COM shit as well.
 
Messidj kyooz
 
i have 1 exe and 1 web api method which i am caaling from winform appilcation
i am caaling this service asynchrnously
 
it's been working well for me even with 6Mb text file and updating the .config and everything
 
in this web service method i have this mail sending functionality
 
@RoelvanUden why is it worse?
 
11:11 AM
   await sendMail();

    public static async Task sendmail()
        {
           await transportWeb.DeliverAsync(myMessage);
        }
@RoelvanUden:So what i need to change in this code
??
Please suggest me
 
why await sendMail?
just run the task
 
if UI don't care about the result, just fire and forget
 
just fire and forget i want
Yes Ui dont care about the result
with this sending mail
 
@Learning Don't await.
REALLY ITS THE KEYWORD "WAIT"
 
Task.Run(sendmail)
 
11:13 AM
How the hell will tasks handle it if its a giant load of stuff to do on top of the main thread?
 
Sorry for my outburst.
 
Task.wait()
 
@Mr.Toxy Because COM is shit and takes additional resources :D
 
@RoelvanUden but the tasks wont use the main thread resources? Isnt just adding more to the thrad?
 
Which tasks? TPL tasks? They use the thread pool.
 
11:14 AM
yes TPL.
 
They won't use the main thread at all.
 
I think that Task.wait() returns immediatly @Learning
 
No.. it awaits a task in a blocking fashion.
2 mins ago, by tweray
Task.Run(sendmail)
^ That's the way to do this.
 
But i have two mail sending one by one like this:
 
I would change it but cant waste time refactoring it
 
11:16 AM
sendmail();
and again
sendmail();
 
and I already implemented the cancell stuff and rollback
to much of a hassle
but did learn something new
 
Task.Run(() => {
 sendmail();
 sendmail();
});
 
Honestly the best code is simple code. If it's confusing, it's not good code.
I personally find most threading stuff confusing (and I'm actually really really good at it), so I 99/100 times recommend you don't thread at all.
 
well its not confusing for me since I was the one doing it, but maybe for other person it is I dunno
 
Yeah.. wait until you look back 2 years from now
 
11:18 AM
hahahahhaa
yeah ur right
I get what you mean
 
> Code as if the next guy to maintain your code is a homicidal maniac who knows where you live.
 
cause you also need to fire stuff on the main thread tha cant be fired on the other wich is kinda confusing
and you have to do new function just to update lets say a label on the main thread
 
That's actually not completely true.
 
I couldnt invoke
didnt work for me
 
Just don't thread. Best solution, ever.
 
you can always add delegate to .ContinueWith()
easiest way to configure a callback
 
@Mr.Toxy Should I start flaming on this code?
 
sure
shoot it
if I can improve it might as well learn how
he's taking so long that Im afraid he's gonna say it's all shit
hahahaha
 
@Mr.Toxy stuff like StreamReader SR = new StreamReader should be var streamReader = new StreamReader
 
11:26 AM
Use var. Use proper indentation. Don't use m_, this isn't C++. Don't initialize fields outside of constructors. Don't use global variables. Don't use WinForms. Dispose your streams. Write files asynchronously. Don't write XML as strings. Don't use == true. Don't use message box. Split methods that are way too large (Looking at you thread worker). Don't catch Exception, specificy what you catch. Don't hardcode configuration settings. Don't use Application.Exit.
 
@AlexL yeah they wanted me to use the explicit types dunno why. So I just left it as is
 
Don't take this as being overly harsh, please. It's feedback to improve :-)
 
@RoelvanUden Im not man Im glad that you actually to a minute to look, thank you for your feedback honestly :)
 
yes, Roel is in very gentle mood today, he can be much harsher xD
 
@Mr.Toxy the var isnt the important part, SR is not a good name for anything
 
11:28 AM
Hahahaha I have a harsh reputation :D
 
hahahaha ur right
 
@RoelvanUden:I am too co damn confuse with this async and await
 
@RoelvanUden can I ask somethings?
 
Sure, go ahead and ask.
 
1. what should I use instead of message box
2. the vars with _ in the beginning I just got use to it bc the nomeclature we used to use was to name all private vars with _ in the beginning
3. should I use File.read/write instead of the streams?
4. in the exception I use it cause I dont know the exact exp :\
5. what do you mean by hardcode config settings?
 
11:32 AM
whats the problem with naming all your private vars with _
 
@tweray Roel just needs some TLC :)
@misha130 the problem? none I think...?
 
oh its supposed to be _m
 
dunno
 
not m_
 
yes _m
 
11:33 AM
Why even use m for member? We all get it if you use _ it's private and a member.
 
and like if its string its suposed to start like this string sThis =
 
3. Possible, or use using blocks. Note that it's not asynchronous, UI blocks.
1. Your own modal that does not block.
 
@Mr.Toxy no god no, burn it with fire
 
2. see above.
 
@RoelvanUden just bs they want me to use here, like if its a int use i int he beggining if its data use dt
 
11:34 AM
WinForms modals?
 
4. Then don't catch. Catch when it occurs and deal with it then. Now you're just swallowing exceptions without ever knowing what you are ignoring.
@Mr.Toxy I feel sorry for that.
 
I dont use it normally anyways I dfaf
 
The point of exception catching is not to trip get up and keep going while half your software crashed
 
5. I see a bunch of config values and names hardcoded into code, make them external in a seperate class/app config
 
dgaf
gonna lunhc brb
:)
 
11:35 AM
@misha130 Yeah.. but then you'd log what happened so you know what can happen that is causing mysterious situations. There are two approaches really, ignore it and move on but log it, or crash hard and log it.
For critical stuff, crashing hard is a tad too much. For most software, it's appropriate.
 
you mean catch log throw
 
I am a fan of doing a bit of both, catch known unknowns and crash hard on everything else
 
well what I was saying is that you shouldnt be hopeful and think that things will just work out
 
1. Catch, log, throw (fail fast). Best choice IMHO. No mysterious situations, ever.
2. Catch, log, continue (don't fail). You at least get knowledge about exceptions, but users may not be aware of problems and end up in inappropriate system states that are impossible to predict/debug/reason about.
@AlexL That is (1) above, and my preferred as well.
 
lets do a hybrid with #DEBUG TRUE :^)?
 
11:38 AM
N...no
 
no huh..
 
@RoelvanUden invalid states are worse than no states at all
 
this is all in the realm of reasonablity
 
That's what she said.
 
So, for the @stupidhackathon I made an app that orders delivery to a random location, and ubers you there...
^ this is what Technology is all about
 
11:52 AM
@Squiggle rofl
 
lol
sounds like a perfect way to trade pot
 
rofl
 
actually that's a really good point
"hey, man. Where's the drop-off?" "I have no idea, but there's a cab waiting outside that will take you there"
 
does it accept bitcoin payments?
 
dude, we should really make this app, and someone may really want to buy it on millions
 
11:57 AM
Uber? Probably.
 
i like this app!
 
@tweray Someone already made the app lol
 
problem is after we get the millions, FBI come after that
 
:P
 
i like this app!
can you uber me the details
 
11:58 AM
@Ggalla1779 k whatsapp me ur address. I'll send you my number via snapchat. What's ur snapchat ID?
 
I am joking Squiggle
 

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