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15:00
28/6 are a much better solution
Almost as stupid as DST.
what about this
I can't remember what I was dealing with, some polygot programming, but one language returned the timestamp in seconds, the other milliseconds.
wasn't a difficult fix... but pissed me off.
< happened this week >
There is one down side to storing the date time as UTC in the db. How do you account for DST on the DB side? There is no way to convert a DateTime or DateTime2 to the users local time with respect to time zones and DST. If you pass an offset, then you could still be off due to one day being in DST and one not. Example 3/10/2012 2:00:00 EST is 3/09/2012 20:00:00 UTC but 3/13/2012 2:00:00 EST is 3/12/2012 19:00:00 UTC.
Basically an offset of -4 and -5 respectively. So which offset do you pass into your SP -4 or -5 to convert the UTC to local? Either way one is wrong
@rlemon probably C# and javascript?
15:01
calculation of time ranges in the db
I just make the server convert everything to unixtime
like give me x that happened between this date and this date, crossing DST boundaries present problems
There is a DateTime libray for .Net that might help
let me find it for you
@aBetterGamer why on the FSM's little blue-cheese moon would you choose to apply the DST offsets in the db?
@aBetterGamer no, they don't.
You don't understand time at all do you?
finding in x in a time range
15:02
It may be all wibbly wobbly but it's still a straight flying banana
yeah i see what your saying
makes sense
Noda Time
by John Skeet
remember that "wall time" is a display artifact
remember that "real time" is a thing that will continue marching forwards forever (as far as we're concerned) at a consistent pace, undeterred
15:04
@jcolebrand can't we stop it? I'm sure we can. There's a button somewhere.
@LiverpoolsNumber9 it's large and red :p
@jcolebrand and currently inches away from a crazy South-East Asian gentleman in a green coat.
@jcolebrand At a consistent pace, you say? Perhaps you should talk to Einstein about that.
@KendallFrey I'm surprised that you're doing that much travelling next to large gravity-bodies on a regular basis, and that you're still able to hold a conversation with me right now.
That's rather impressive.
15:09
That bloke with the dead-eyes can stop time. The one who lived in a box for ages. Then in a box on a stick in London for ages. Can't remember his name but he is properly supernatural.
@KendallFrey the only place that time warps like that is in the presence of large gravity holes, the sort of which completely disrupt your local spacetime to put you elsewhere in the galaxy
While you're on this local planet, you really don't have much to worry about those theories that you're referring to, so referring to them is just silly for the purposes of this conversatoin.
I think you have a misunderstanding of relativity.
However, if you were writing software for a spacecraft that was to travel near those large gravity-wells, then you would want to know such things
You know, they had to take relativity into account for things that didn't even get past the moon.
15:14
how does anybody get work done while in here all day?
Even things on the surface, like particle accelerators.
I can't seem to do both
@ScottSelby Neither can the rest of us.
Cher. She nearly managed it, but wrote a song instead.
Office is ordering Chinese food.... no one can agree what to get... it's chaotic over here.
</randomshare>
15:18
@Kend
@rlemon - can you agree to get "a bit of everything"?
@KendallFrey Einstein was wrong
@LiverpoolsNumber9 personally I don't care. I'm just hungry
soon I'm going to go get some street meat down the road.
he said himself "No problem can be solved from the same level of conciousness which created it"
15:19
@rlemon if you don't care, can I order for you?
How was Einstein wrong?
I'm not the one ordering :P
Speed of light
for example
it is not constant
jQuery Question; I have an element and want to find any 'img' element inside of it. What function should be used.
15:20
and time can;t be bent to your pleasure
@Darek How is it not constant?
and don't get me started on the twins paradox
baloney
No, I believe the twin paradox.
@RoelvanUden did you come in this room to ask jQuery questions just to confuse everyone? If so, bravo.
Exactly
You BELIEVE
15:20
@RoelvanUden jQuery(element).find("img") ...by the way.
You confuse me.
because that is how we decided to explain our known universe
@LiverpoolsNumber9 What?
Show me some proof.
with our limited understanding
let me go bacjk in time and slap you 5 minutes ago :)
15:21
@RoelvanUden this is the C# room (although we mostly discuss how "Einstein was wrong"
)
Just kidding
@LiverpoolsNumber9 And no, I want to find an element inside of an element. Somewhere in the children.
@RoelvanUden that's the code I just give you. The "element" should be replace with a tag name, .class or
#ID
Anyhow
Einstein never said we could go back in time.
15:22
I came to teh C# room or relativity?
I still want to know what you meant by saying the speed of light is not constant.
@RoelvanUden or use jQuery(element).children("img");
@KendallFrey went to see to an office problem. I'll notice, however, that you're probably doing neither this morning. And I'll further stipulate that if @aBetterGamer were doing those things, he would have mentors he could go and discuss such things with, and would probably have a math and science heavy background, and would be able to write a short essay on those effects.
@LiverpoolsNumber9 .children is just a single level, not further down, which is what I am after.
@jcolebrand WTF are you talking about?
15:22
However, driving my car to work this morning, taking the elevator and sitting in my chair, I didn't have to account for minute shifts in the gravity fields causing distortions of spacetime
Variable speed of light (VSL) is a concept that states that the speed of light, usually denoted by c, may be a function of space and time. Variable speed of light occurs in some situations of classical physics, as equivalent formulation of accepted theories, but also in various alternative theories of gravitation and cosmology, many of them non-mainstream. In classical physics, the refractive index describes how light slows down when traveling through a medium. The speed of light in vacuum instead is considered a constant, and defined by the SI as 299792458 m/s. Alternative theories ...
@KendallFrey fucking replies, how do they work
@RoelvanUden then use ".find()"
(which is what i said in the first place)
@LiverpoolsNumber9 .find reduces the current set..
theories, believes, in the meantime, no one really knows
15:23
@jcolebrand I don't know what 'neither' you're talking about.
Like I said, I have an element and somewhere down the tree of that element I have an image. I want to find that image. :)
Anyhow, lets go back to C# shall we?
guys, you should know by now, don't argue with @jcolebrand , he knows everything about everything, he's god gift to mankind and we should all be on our knees thanking him for joining us in the C# room to share his knowledge and wisdom about the universe
@RoelvanUden no it doesn't it.... funnily enough... FINDS elements.
STEVES BACK!!
@KendallFrey going to the moon and building a particle accelerator
15:24
Your point is?
@Steve fuck off again
well, don't act like you're better and smarter than everybody about everything and people won't think that
> VSL theories are a matter of debate.
@KendallFrey that for the purposes of a person who doesn't understand timezones, telling them to store everything in UTC is sufficient
just act normal.
15:25
@Steve never said I was
@jcolebrand Dude, are you high? You aren't making any sense.
@KendallFrey how am I not making sense?
@Darek I agree maybe relativity can get a room?
I never told anyone to store everything in UTC.
I said time is linear, for all intents and purposes.
You said "no it's not"
15:25
@Steve don't take it personally. Not all programmers are "people people"
Sorry... not ANY programmers
You fucks again. Stop flagging.
@KendallFrey I, however, did.
@jcolebrand Because it isn't. The twin paradox, for example.
@KendallFrey and for the purposes of storing naive times in databases, nobody cares about the twin paradox
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol what was flagged?
15:26
Of course not.
What made you think so?
@KendallFrey you're the one that contested my assertion that for all intents and purposes, time is linear
I was only talking about "on Earth" when I said that
2 mins ago, by jcolebrand
@Steve fuck off again
oh yeah, that was me who flagged that
i'll man up to it
@Steve actually a few people got in on the flag
UTC and relativity are two completely unrelated concepts. Why are you comparing them?
15:27
@KendallFrey because @aBetterGamer was trying to decide if he should store the datetimes in UTC or localtime
and you somehow brought in relativity
@Steve Please don't flag that type of stuff, ignore instead as Zoidberg suggested (imo)
@JohanLarsson I just flagged that.
@jcolebrand No, you said something unrelated to the subject and I brought up relativity.
@JohanLarsson i get flagged for saying cock and get banned for 30 minutes, i can't flag him telling me to fuck off?
don't care, doing it anyway, its in my right :)
@Steve ok fair enough, I was not telling you what to do, I asked using please :D
It wasn't the "saying Cock" it was the calling people cocks and cocksuckers
^ I'm famous!!
I was pointing out that worrying about shifting DST times isn't something to worry about
@JohanLarsson i'll try to limit my flagging, sorry
specifically because if you store everything in UTC then the database times are linear
15:30
I fail to see the connection.
@jcolebrand why are your times so funky?
@jcolebrand Could Noda Time and UTC solve your issues?
if any
@rlemon because I'm using the "unofficial official SO chat userscript" ?
@Darek the answer is "always store times in UTC"
Right
ahh. I use a lot of chat userscript. most are not useful
15:30
Noda Time would be more helpful when it comes to display of the time
that's what I do
correct
don;t mix
But when it comes to "how do I store time" the answer is "use UTC"
leave presentation to UI
storage UTC
same with numbers
@jcolebrand Not always.
@KendallFrey lemme try again. When DST hits in the fall, we see 1am-2am twice, if we store in local time, right? Then when we hit DST in the spring, we see 2am-3am has a gap, right?
15:31
more than half of my devs from an outsourcing company use Strings
@Steve What, you want to be just like him?
This is fun - there's three people having an argument but they're all on the same side.
@KendallFrey when, praytell, is the answer not "use UTC"?
yeah of course
15:31
no kidding
@LiverpoolsNumber9 The best kind of argument.
@Steve ty sir
@LightnessRacesinOrbit :)
@jcolebrand Did you mean "autumn"?
@KendallFrey linearly, which of the two 1am-2am sequences came first, if we don't use UTC?
15:32
@jcolebrand When you don't need to make your app cross-timezone.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I grew up in the South, I was told that November was part of winter as my childhood :p
@KendallFrey you still have to account for DST
@KendallFrey wtf. there is never any reason to store dates in any format that is even aware of timezones.
@jcolebrand Not always.
unless it's a database of different ways to render date strings in different timezones
Sometimes it's better to go with simple.
15:33
@KendallFrey xenephobic database?
I'm serious. Which of the two 1am-2am sequences is right?
int is pretty fucking simple
@jcolebrand What do you mean, 'right'?
@KendallFrey in the fall, when the logs show a 1am-2am entry in the database, is it from before the DST switch, or after?
Anyhow, here is an Rx challenge I have. I have an observable from time say, every second. I need another one which subscribes to it by throttles it to every 60 s. Any ideas?
15:34
say: 1:34 am and your server resets time at 2am
sorry for typos
@Darek I don't do Rx, more's the pity. Sorry, can't help you
@jcolebrand If it matters, you have a problem.
@jcolebrand how far South? like, Antarctica? I thought November was summer in the southern hemisphere o.o
It doesn't always matter.
15:34
@KendallFrey if you had stored it in UTC, it wouldn't matter.
@darek I think we've established that time doesn't exist and 60 seconds means different things to different people. I think you should put a gif of a kitten playing with a ball of wool up there instead.
@KendallFrey ok, well, it's obviously progressed to such a point as mattering in the reason for the discussion, which is the question he asked
since when does Gravatar require a WP account?!?!? en.gravatar.com/site/login
wtf?
As I said earlier, DST and timezones are a really stupid idea.
15:35
@rlemon Fancy seeing you here!
right, it does not exist yet we tend to measure it dilligently
@CodeMonkeyAlx ???
have we met?
@rlemon did the same company purchase / come to own .. both of those? See the automattic at the bottom
sorry I get confused about users
@jcolebrand regardlesss they did not used to
@rlemon Yes.... Android Chat -- I usually hide out there but I am in the process of the learning C# at the moment. xD
15:37
Did you know that if we would remember only the future, time would seem to move backwards?
is there anyway I can turn off the drive prefix for a network drive?
so now my current account is what? in the wind?
how do I log into my old account?
@KendallFrey I'm confused, wouldn't the future just become the past?
@CodeMonkeyAlx ahh, well hey then :P
@rlemon login to WP and see what happens :p
15:37
@jcolebrand Yeah!
then I have to create a WP account
Pass 1: 1% Defragmented - This is going to take awhile...
for instance, if I'm navigation to \\netdrive\private\, it would say that, instead of giving me "D:\private"
Aye... uh... Yup!
1
Q: Will Gravatar's new Wordpress-only policy affect us?

Lightness Races in OrbitLogging into gravatar now requires a Wordpress.com account. What consequences, if any, might this change create for the use of Gravatar on Stack Exchange sites?

15:38
@KendallFrey no, because we would only remember the future, we don't know the past.
I'm just spitting bullshit now.
per usual
that is so stupid. I had to create a WP account with my old email that I had in gravatar and it linked up
;)
but now I have a useless WP account I will only use for gravatar?
seems pointlessly stupid to me
15:39
Yep.
@KendallFrey that would be weird though, remembering how you die but not being a child
I have a lot of useless accounts on the internet.
@Steve That reminds me of something completely different.
@KendallFrey what?
> In my next life I want to live my life backwards. You start out dead and get that out of the way. Then you wake up in an old people's home feeling better every day. You get kicked out for being too healthy, go collect your pension, and then when you start work, you get a gold watch and a party on your first day. You work for 40 years until you're young enough to enjoy your retirement.
> You party, drink alcohol, and are generally promiscuous, then you are ready for high school. You then go to primary school, you become a kid, you play. You have no responsibilities, you become a baby until you are born. And then you spend your last 9 months floating in luxurious spa-like conditions with central heating and room service on tap, larger quarters every day and then Voila! You finish off as an orgasm! - Woody Allen
You already start off dead
15:43
lmfao, that sounds
amazing
I want to live my life sideways. I start pissed off, go through my average life pissed off and die pissed off.
Hang on...
I'd rather be pissed off than pissed on.
thats off of an old movie... robin hood men in tights
Men in tights...
lol, i didn't name it
but if i would have it would have been named the same thing
15:45
is daydreaming
:/
I'd rather be pissed on. By a sweaty businessman. In bangkok. On a Tuesday. In April. Next Tuesday actually.
@KendallFrey I heard that attributed to Carlin for some reason
Say Bangkok. Really loud. Right now.
Even better: Say it backwards.
Ha... really can't...
Kokgnab?
15:48
cockbang
kok gnab
job...
blow...
Is everybody in here from North America except me? (Just out of curiosity / lack of acknowledgement of my excellent Monty Python gag)
15:50
lol what
nah @DavidDV is from ... europe some where, @andre something is from brazil i think
i'm sure a good chunk of the people around here aren't from NA, although i'm sure the majority probably are
posted on April 05, 2013 by Eric Lippert

Roger Ebert was -- is -- a hero of mine. I've often thought that if I could be one tenth as clear, witty, insightful and kind, I'd consider myself a good writer. I remember getting a copy of Microsoft Cinemania in the … Continue reading →

@Steve you NA?
yep
Right. Well in nearly 5 in scouseland so I'm off.
later man
15:55
LMAO i just found a typo.
in what?
When I hover over the 'Browse File' menu option, it says 'Brouse File' in the status bar.
In some internal app.
lol
thats kind of funny, the keys aren't even next to eachother, somebody just didn't know how to spell
A Canadian would never make that mistake.
do you guys contract work out?
15:57
No.
Well, yes.
oh
To me.
I work for with an American company.
gotcha
we contract a lot of our work out overseas, man the applications that come back are so crappy
man idk why my nose hairs grow so fast - and yes i know thats what you wanted to know
I got this fetish...
Sorry, Steve, it's not nose hairs.
damn, you got me all excited at first
16:04
I bet I did.
well this chat is dead now
how are we supposed to pass the time before we get off of work
Poisonous nose hairs.
@KendallFrey I hate them... Makes it hard to breathe.
So do ropes.
user1125394
it's normal that Console.WriteLine(buffer); with buffer a byte[] doesn't work right?
16:06
So I got the jist of OOP now its matter of getting the little nik knack things out of the way.
nice!
@c'c It should 'work', but depending what you expected, you won't get what you expected.
user1125394
hmm I think it returns "System.Byte[]"
user1125394
which doesn't help ;)
call .ToString() on it
16:07
Same thing lol
user1125394
I was wanting to transmit byte[] to an other program
oh
user1125394
let's do with strings
stdout isn't the best way
user1125394
ahhh yes
16:08
if you base64 encode it you should be fine.
user1125394
you're my hero
user1125394
my encoder is UTF8Encoding
user1125394
@KendallFrey I read is
Alright so I can toss data between two classes.
user1125394
16:16
but ok strings are fine, base64 will just add processing
So will any other encoding.
what is the amazon service that allows you to host a vm on amazons servers? some cloud thing or something
nvm got it
woo and its free for a year
What is it called @Steve
ahhh i think i'm going home early today, i dont want to be here
later all
16:42
I just deposited 5 paychecks. Do I feel rich? Noooo.
user1125394
16:52
of $10 :p
hi i have an sql table with 5000000 rows with 20 column each . can i lode this table in c# DataTable ?
You can, but you probably shouldn't.
is i face any performance issue ?
cos i want to make my application faster .
i am using web based sql Db and . id don't want to ping my application on name for every data retrieving
#name -> web
It will probably be slow to load 5 million records.
If you have a suitable db structure, it should be able to take hundreds of hits per second.
ok then should i do all calculation on sql . is it best with 5 million records ?

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