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00:04
@AndrasDeak Tbf I do get them mixed up, but I checked the docs to make sure ;)
 
7 hours later…
07:18
hello is anyone there?
 
2 hours later…
09:07
@VentusZXC Many people just lurk here on the weekend. If you have an (on-topic) question, feel free to ask it in the void. If anyone knows the answer, they'll reply.
09:43
Lurking cbg
10:11
Hello! This question maybe is not proper for this channel. But you can do some ideas about cloud simulator?
What is a cloud simulator? You mean actual atmospheric clouds or a cluster of computers?
hey
i have a question regarding the stack overflow community
Is automating my account to get stack overflow badges legal or may have any consequences?
@Mihai8 there are some people in here that use large-scale clusters so you may be in luck but it's going to be hit-and-miss whether someone can help on that. I certainly can't sorry
@Aqua4 I'm curious what badges you're referring to?
first question is automating my SO account illegal ?
@roganjosh
10:21
My guess is "no" on a very broad basis since there are chat bots. But that's what they do; chat. Once you start getting towards actual activity on the site, I would imagine that it very quickly becomes disruptive behaviour that would not be allowed
ah, my bot just logs into my acc and exits
that is all
How does that earn you badges?
@roganjosh talking about the SO-fanatic badge - gold:D
Umm... won't even get you towards the fanatic badge :)
@JonClements been there done that :p
10:26
Well, the pup of knowledge has spoken. Looks like there are no badges to be had from this :)
dude! i see a few more that can be achieved
you know nothing Jon snow :p --- JK
10:39
@Mihai8 That doesn't seem Python related. What do you means by "But you can do some ideas about cloud simulator?"?
@JonClements this still does not answer my question, is it illegal?
@Aqua4 Did you read the TOS?
@MisterMiyagi I am going through it, did not find anything specific to bots
Plenty of users have user scripts/other bits they use to help them out with doing things on the site - those are generally fine... if however, it's generally frowned upon automating stuff that can 1) either go wrong and cause issues or 2) do so to achieve something you'd not have been able to achieve without at least some effort on your part kind of thing
@AndrasDeak what is your take on this?
10:43
It doesn't happen often but it's not unknown if it's found out that someone didn't get a badge/similar in good faith - the badge can be removed for instance
@JonClements I believe that it does not disrupt or perform any actions on my behalf. it just signs into my acc regularly that is all
wow! admins can do that?
" I believe that it does not disrupt or perform any actions on my behalf" - just "believe" or are you certain? :)
absolutely certain! - just a random sign in script using selenium
if it logs in to pretend you logged in, then it's logging in on your behalf
thats more of a fallback thing, incase i forgot to use SO over the weekend
10:47
@Aqua4 you're aware that Jon was a moderator for many years until just recently? I'm not sure why you're turning to Andras here
i was unaware of that, sorry
its just i have interacted with Andras before so...
@Aqua4 that you should not ping random people and that you don't deserve an activity badge if you can't be bothered to be active
whoa, I get it sincerest apologies, it was a bad idea
lot of sprouts for today, its better to rbrb
@Aqua4 also interesting question 2 days after you got the badge stackoverflow.com/help/badges/83/fanatic?userid=5760832 . I hope this is your greatest achievement in life.
You should also extend the quote in your profile to "Don't have it? Flaunt it anyway" :P
Ouch. I think perhaps the point has been made
10:59
I still have plenty to say...
@JonClements i now get the concept of being frowned upon
@AndrasDeak I have tried so many times for that one badge! once I failed at 75 days :/
Yes
That means, you know, that you're not a fanatic.
But it's not really about the fanatic badge
ok go ahead let me hear it
I'd have to write a few paragraphs for that, but I'm on mobile. I'll get back to you when I'm in front of a keyboard
@AndrasDeak some other room maybe, like you have expressed enough in this room
11:08
No, here's fine if you want to know my thoughts
well there's no stopping you sir,
send it in with '@' later. I will surely take a read and follow the guidelines :D
@AndrasDeak
11:28
hey guys what are the most useful design patterns to know?
say top 3-5
24
Q: What is the most frequently used design pattern?

Tamara WijsmanWhich design pattern do you think is the most popular?

(I googled "most useful design patterns")
let me just find a list of design patterns so I can find out which trivial and obvious concepts are considered design patterns nowadays...
let's see... iterators seem pretty useful. Oh and what's this, objects having state is a design pattern, too.
@shad0w_wa1k3r yes i know
i was just looking for peoples opinions on whats worht learning
oh, alright.
12:09
So @Aqua4 as I said the fanatic badge itself is inconsequential. Nobody really cares about it but yourself, so you're only fooling yourself by cheating to get it. If you think about it, it takes 100 days of consecutive activity to get the badge, whereas the hard-core users of SO usually have consecutive active days in the several thousands. That's how meaningless the fanatic badge is.
The problem is that cheating to get some award that has no consequence is an alarming symptom. There are a lot of people who value above all else appearances and what other people think. A lot of such people a
...hence my frowning
huh, I guess good advice can bypass the maximum chat message length limit
either that or multiline messages :)
12:32
Wow... a bit of a wall of text but very very nicely put...
 
2 hours later…
14:34
The fanatic badge was the first gold I earned as well but it also has a negative connotation of sorts... "don't you have better things to do than login to SO every day of your life for months on end." Nevertheless, I was not deterred.
I would star Andras' life lesson but I'm refraining from starring as my stars are occasionally removed
I always thought of "fanatic" as an Anti Poop-Socking hint.
14:50
Extremely patient rep farmers could have an army of fanatic socks
I never knew how much rep manipulation actually occurred on the site until I looked at the low end of the weekly rep gains. Every week someone is loosing thousands of points for voting irregularities.
 
2 hours later…
16:39
hello, does anybody know how i can represent this in cidr format? 'addr':fe80::f80e:92ff:fe42:6888%awdl0', 'netmask': 'ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff::/64. Would this be fe80::f80e:92ff:fe42:6888%awdl0/64 or fe80::f80e:92ff:fe42:6888%awdl0::/64? I'm learning ipv6.
@AndrasDeak thanks a million for beating some sense into me.
I actually know a few people who look beyond those badges like my CEO, one of the few people that I respect and I want to be like them, knowledgeable yet humble :)
I shouldn't have dragged myself to the level of these dishonest pretenders that I've to work with/under. It was just another desperate move to prove that I am better than these people would ever be!..... this has been an eye-opener for me, I sure am not falling for appearances again!
@Aqua4 I'm always glad to help :) Note that you can switch a black hat for a white one and do similar things for a good cause (this doesn't really apply to SO badges, but you know what I mean). Hope you'll find a fulfilling path.
 
1 hour later…
18:15
A few hours ago, I noticed this slightly odd Python question on the HNQ: How to bypass python function definition with decorator?. I suppose it's a valid use of decorators, but I'm not really comfortable with it. The decorator in the accepted answer is way more complicated and less readable than a simple if..elif..else construction, or selecting from a dict of functions.
19:09
^^ Gone
19:41
@PM2Ring frame inspection seems like serious overkill for this
I was looking at that and wondering why it was necessary. I don't understand what they need specifically from that
they need it to return the original function in case the re-definition doesn't apply
I'd rather do an explicit wrapper with a .register function the way that single dispatch works
@MisterMiyagi I'm not sure what you're referring to? I've found this but I don't think it is relevant? This is a dark patch in my python knowledge sorry, but curious to read more
Aha, thanks
Wow, ok, I've been completely blind to what appears to be a really fundamental aspect here. I've seen it asserted several times that Python doesn't support overloading but this is making it look like that is too strong of an assertion, even if it does require functools. Thanks for linking that, I have plenty of reading to do
20:02
after some consideration, using if gives everything the OP requested without any metaprogramming.
@roganjosh It's very useful and a good alternative to methods. Very nice if you want to keep the surface of your classes smooth without sacrificing functionality.
Yeah, it looks really cool. I can think of one or two situations in my codebase at work where this could really help and I just didn't think of looking how to do it
There are some third party libraries for proper multipledispatch out there as well, mind. More of a performance Hogg, though.
if any(s.startswith(('1', '2') for s in [first, second]):

i want to print first or second if it's starts with 1 or 2 but using the previous is still get all.
@MisterMiyagi Sure. If you really want to do this with a decorator it makes sense to use a similar approach to what the stdlib does. I notice that user2357112 mentioned singledispatch in a comment.
@αԋɱҽԃαмєяιcαη Anything wrong with a plain ol' if s.startswith('1'): print (first) elif s.startswith('2'): print(second)?
20:08
@Aran-Fey hmm, i just wondering how to do it one liner in case if i will match on multiple elements such as (1,2,3,4)
@PM2Ring Nah, I'm pretty convinced now decorators are a red herring. There is no advantage at all.
Any one-line solution to that problem is grossly overcomplicated. May I interest you in a 3-liner?
for prefix, value in (('1', first), ('2', second)):
    if s.startswith(prefix):
        print(value)
@roganjosh Well you don't need functools, but why re-invent the wheel? :) functools.singledispatch is implemented in plain Python, you can see the source here. Mind you, it has to do a lot of futzing around so that the dispatch behaves properly according to the type of the 1st arg.
A one-liner would look something like print(next(value for prefix, value in (('1', first), ('2', second)) if s.startswith(prefix)))
@Aran-Fey thank you.
20:17
@PM2Ring indeed :) Only last week, though, I decided that I really have just neglected functools along the way, and started reading more about the methods in my downtime. This has certainly spurred me on :)
could someone please look at the below question posted
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/60250790/unable-to-run-pytest-bdd-step-definition-file-as-it-throws-index-out-of-range-er
@Lucky1234 Please note the room rules. It's requested that you wait a minimum of 48 hours before posting a question from main here
@JonClements: I'm not disagreeing with the general sentiment here, but I went and tried to find something to cite limiting user automation, but there isn't anything explicit in SE Acceptable Use Policy or SE API Terms of Use
...as in, anything in the TOS explicitly limiting automating general use (not scraping or spamming or contact details).
20:33
@smci FWIW, a few years ago an SO mod got elected partly on the strength of a bot that had a great track record at flagging. But there was some concern that maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to allow the bot to run with full mod privileges. ;)
Once upon a time I think I might have cared about that ambiguity in the TOS but, meh. I suspect it's ill-defined criteria and nobody has bothered to flesh it out.
@roganjosh Yeah, the TOS/TOU are now a collection of vague documents, seem to be getting more vague and more numerous every revision.
@smci Case in point: if the TOS stated something like "SE Inc may at its discretion increase the version number of the CC-BY-SA licence when new versions become available" they wouldn't have a bunch of angry members complaining about the upgrading of the licence from 3.0 to 4.0.
20:49
Honestly, I really couldn't either. I do land on a lot of profiles per day but I don't remember when I've ever looked at their badges nor do I know what I would infer from them. Normally I'm looking at question/answer ratio, approx rep per posts and maybe a scan of the last few answers if I really want to know what level they operate on on SO. That's enough Meta info for me to know who I'm dealing with
@PM2Ring AFAIK the TOS is a joke. It linked to CC BY-SA 4.0 way before the change from 3.0 to 4.0 was announced, and SE just ignored anyone that mentioned it.
@smci Animuson is staff, not a mod, so (in a sense) has more authority than a mod. stackoverflow.com/users/246246/animuson
@PM2Ring Ah right
@Peilonrayz Indeed. The treated it like it was a trivial typographic inconsistency. And with the right wording in the TOS, it would have been trivial. But instead, they stuffed up, and broke the terms of the licence, and continue to react like it's a non-event.
@roganjosh I didn't say I care about automating Fanatic badge either. I pointed out that an SO employee is explicitly telling users it's ok to automate Fanatic badge. And the TOS are a tangled verbose mess and silent on user automation (I thought they used to restrict antisocial use). That's all. So when JonClements recommended the user to go read the TOS, in fact that wouldn't enlighten users on what automated use is/isnt permissible. That's all I'm saying.
(... I suppose the current state of SO TOS is also a lost cause. Sigh)
20:58
@smci Fair enough :) I think automation should be a part of the TOS and perhaps Jon just did the sensible thing and assumed it was (I mean, why isn't it? :P) but I was just extending on the opinion that I couldn't care less about someone automating the Fanatic badge
I've just given up trying to understand what SO is doing anyway. I agree with your observation but I fear it's utterly pointless to debate the TOS or even refer to it in any sane context these days :P
OTOH, I've heard of people running scripts that randomly upvote stuff on the front page, in order to cast the maximum number of votes every day (and get associated badges). People tend to frown on scripts like that.
I'd expect the TOS is written largely by lawyers, or at least the text in it has been approved by lawyers. Of course, we can't expect those lawyers to have much understanding of the actual day to day functioning of the network... ;)
...that explains a lot of mystery upvotes
I've been getting a few mystery upvotes on old posts lately. I've got a few popular ones that keep earning votes, which is nice, but it's kind of odd when a fairly obscure 3 or 4 year old answer gets upvoted twice in two weeks. :)
 
2 hours later…
22:56
@PM2Ring I suspect that sort of voting happens because something getting some attention recently linked to the material.

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