« first day (3258 days earlier)      last day (1690 days later) » 
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

12:14 AM
Not precisely. There are lots of questions containing the terms [python] intersection column. However none of them are about not reading in the data, only the header row.
 
12:25 AM
...don't have time to wade through them now... many of those need retitling surgery and are about join, set_index, concat, etc.
 
12:40 AM
Hey folks when we want to take the intersection of n objects (unlike union), is there a more elegant code idiom than taking the zero'th object, then intersecting with the other (n-1)? Hence the ugly first line in the following:
    """Get set intersection of column-names of specified CSV files"""
    common_columns = set(pd.read_csv(files[0], nrows=0).columns)  # <-- how can we avoid this? only needed for intersection not union

    for f in files[1:]:
        common_columns &= set(pd.read_csv(f, nrows=0).columns)
 
1:27 AM
cbg
 
 
5 hours later…
6:11 AM
cbg guys o/
 
@smci I did change a few style things in my answers along the way but I'm not sure I'd add too recent features. Writing answers that confusingly breaks for a lot of unknowing people defeats the purpose.
 
some of us are veritably still running 2.7, or at least 3.4. if the question does not need the fancy chrome, leave it off. or add it as an addendum.
 
@AndrasDeak Sigh. All the people going "but the print command doesn't work". I see much wailing and gnashing of teeth in Jan 2020.
 
cbg
 
it can't be helped
 
6:21 AM
Guys what should we do with this question about clamping outliers? OP anecdotally says studd doesn't work or causes an error, but didn't comment on whether the answer they got solved it. Leave open? Downvote? Close for no MCVE/unclear? something else?
 
@inspectorG4dget I already lost two just getting the actions beta to run more or less the way I want =D
 
6:36 AM
@smci very no MCVE
 
Anyone here works for Google?
 
user10984358
Well I work using google. Sorry had to make that joke.
 
user10984358
I know (knew) of a friend who does.
 
No problem; Thanks
 
user10984358
7:06 AM
Heya, is there any “makes life easier” way of parsing the stdout from a Popen call?
 
user10984358
Do I have to treat them as normal strings? There is a tabular structure in the output so I want to know if I can get or index them as columns or rows?
 
user10984358
Well actually I need the final output as a JSON if my choice. Anything I should be looking at ?
 
the csv module might help you parse it never mind, just splitting on whitespace is way easier
 
user10984358
Csv with delimiter as Whitespace could work I guess
 
8:13 AM
anybody can help me on django
my storage engine is myisam and i am not able to configure in django
 
8:31 AM
Hi. I'm trying to parse a webpage w/ beautifulsoup but I'm having some issue with getting the correct elements.
https://imgur.com/a/FhWGR4x
I'm trying to get this element but I'm not sure how. I know I have to use .find but I'm unsure as to what to put as the arguments/parameters
 
8:49 AM
dsaf0+943213¤
 
you okay there Antti? :P
 
>>> base64.b64decode('!"!#"!%&%&&/&///&&&%%%""!!!!!')
b'\xff\xff\xff'
exactly how liberal should an API be...
 
9:05 AM
>>> base64.b64decode('!"!#"!%&%&&/&///&&&%%%""!!!!!', validate=True)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/base64.py", line 86, in b64decode
    raise binascii.Error('Non-base64 digit found')
binascii.Error: Non-base64 digit found
Stupid default behavior though
 
^ Agreed. i wish it was flipped the other way
I like things to complain by default, if we are allowed to supress complaints
But oh well, at least the option is there i suppose.
@Ducktor is that website created by you/under your control or no? Because the div itself seems to have no identifier, which will make it annoying to select when there's more than 1 divs present on the page. (which there most likely will be)
 
yeah it seems to be created by javascript? (no it's not my website)
 
anyways, you can try your luck with beautifulsoup's findall and writing some logic around selecting the div as relevant
Oh. if it's created by javascript, does the div even show up in your beautifulsoup?
 
I'm gonna try to see if I can get any result via selenium
it doesn't lol
 
Ok yep, good call. you don't have a choice there then. go for selenium
 
9:32 AM
I can, but is there anything interesting about it?
 
@smci How about defining a "universal set" object whose __and__ method yields the right-hand operand, and initialising to that before starting iterations?
class universe:
    def __and__(self, other):
        return other

sets = set("abcd"), set("ebcd"), set("deadbeef")

result = universe()

for s in sets:
    result &= s

print(result)
seems to work nicely.
 
10:06 AM
what is the term for finding the angle between two vectors that is smaller so if the angle is 45° I want it to be 45° but if it is 160° I want it to be 20°.
I feel so stupid right now, not sure how to express this
Like it should subtract 180° if the angle is above 90°
and then fabs
that's the code, but I feel like this code has a term in math and is already implemented and I'm missing something obvious here
Basically
double angle2(const Eigen::Vector3d& a, const Eigen::Vector3d& b){
  double result = angle(a, b);
  if(result > M_PI_2){
    result = fabs(result - M_PI);
  }
  return result;
}
sorry the c++, but the idea applies
 
Can't fabs(result - M_PI) be simplified to M_PI - result?
 
No if result is 5° I want it to be 5° not 175°
 
5 is < 180 anyway, so it won't even enter that if branch
 
10:29 AM
@Hakaishin I believe @Aran-Fey's point is that taking the result > M_PI branch guarantees a positive result for result - M_PI.
Hence the fabs call is redundant.
 
could also go for a naive version, just take min of absolute of a-b and 180-(a-b)
 
@holdenweb indeed it is
 
ah right, but what is the mathematical term for this kind of operation?
 
no clue
 
no idea. and no idea if there is one in the first place.
 
10:31 AM
hmm ok. Thanks for the sanity check
 
I'd think of it (not being a mathematician) as being a reflection around 90. Values go linearly up to 90, then linearly back down again to zero at 180, correct?
 
I think he's seeking a term that lets him search for some kind of operation. get_min_angle(a, b)
where get_min_angle has a nicer name or something. I am not sure if it exists or not though
 
oh man, I keep forgetting that 360° is pi*2, not pi
 
To simply one might write return result if result <= M_PI else 180-result, though I understand such linguistic impurities are not for everyone.
BTW did I mention I started a new job yesterday?
 
Ooh, that's awesome!
 
10:37 AM
I don't think so. Congratulations :)
 
Thanks. 30 hours a week, home-based, Lead Dev for a Python team. It leaves me time to pursue other consulting gigs, as I have a couple of clients for whom I work occasionally. Or to just not work.
Fairly low-stress, I am hoping. CTO'ing isn't always fun.
 
11:00 AM
@holdenweb woot!
@Hakaishin I don't think that has a name
something about the angle between lines (rather than vectors) perhaps
 
yes
 
@smci still not very nice and not directly applicable to your specific problem, but perhaps
>>> lst
[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 4], [2, 3, 4], [5, -1, 2]]

>>> set.intersection(set(lst[0]), *lst[1:])
{2}

>>> set.union(set(lst[0]), *lst[1:])
{1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -1}
but perhaps set(lst[0]).intersection(*lst[1:]) would be better
 
Perhaps in this case, one could opt for a functional approach
 
I'd recommend creating a helper that does the set intersect on arbitrary iterables.
def interset(iterable: 'Iterable[Iterable[T]]') -> 'Set[T]':
    """Create a set from the intersection of all elements in Iterable"""
    groups = iter(iterable)
    try:
        first = set(next(groups))
    except StopIteration:
        return set()
    else:
        for group in groups:
            first.intersection_update(group)
        return first
 
from functools import reduce
lst = [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 4], [2, 3, 4], [5, -1, 2]]
reduce(set.intersection, map(set, lst))

import numpy as np
reduce(np.intersect1d, lst)
One of those versions perhaps.
 
11:13 AM
the first looks really nice and clean
 
That's actually a good use of reduce
I didn't think it was possible
 
Generally, i too avoid functional approaches. This might be an exception that offers a fairly readable solution.
 
Ah, right, reduce did cross my mind when I read the problem in the morning. Then I forgot :D
 
@MisterMiyagi Nice solution, but first was perhaps an inappropriate name for the result?
 
Well, it's a bit of a shame that reduce creates a bunch of pointless sets internally though
 
11:24 AM
But I think @ParitoshSingh wins over us both - at least in readability terms.
 
Ooooh my new gnome has Night Light! Time to say farewell to redshift and friends.
 
@holdenweb agreed on everything you just wrote
 
11:54 AM
I'm trying to parse a timetable website made by my university (I believe it uses Mytimetable by Eveoh) and I'm currently stuck trying to get certain elements. The main element I need to find it "class=wc-day-column-inner". It seems this is created at runtime via Javascript but I'm not sure and I don't know how to get it if it is, in the first place.

I also couldn't find any parsers online for Mytimetable either.

What would be the best way of doing this?
I have both beautifulsoup and selenium.
 
I'd first try making a GET request, and if the resulting response doesn't contain your element then you probably need a browser or something
 
12:31 PM
If it's definitely created by javascript, one approach is to use selenium, wait until the page loads completely, then access the element. This is typically pretty easy to script, but is relatively slow, let's say 1sec. Another approach is to load the page in your web browser and use developer tools to monitor all the HTTP requests, and find which one is returning the data you want. Then you can replicate that request with urllib/requests. This is typically more difficult, but runs faster.
 
"runs faster" per request, right? So this applies ;)
 
It definitely applies.
 
Having become a request making slash API usage expert yesterday, I certainly see the appeal in the latter
I even refactored my pythoff hunter to use only half as much quota
 
12:47 PM
A recent question asks, "how do I do <reasonable thing> without using <language element that you definitely don't need to use in order to accomplish the thing>?" I commented "... Why would you use that element to begin with? Please show us your code where you use that element and we'll advise you on how to remove it". If they reply with "oh, I don't have any code, I just wanted to make sure that the code you write for me doesn't use the element", then my jimmies will be thoroughly rustled
Three people fell over themselves trying to give OP the codes and now they've gone silent, so I guess I'll never know.
 
1:24 PM
Hmm, I'm thinking about making a class BadWidgetList(list): pass, which behaves identically to list. The only reason I need a new type is because a function later on needs to distinguish between a list of bad widgets and a list of good widgets, and type inspection is the easiest laziest way to do it. Somebody convince me this is a bad idea.
 
I've read your reason for needing this 5 times now and I still don't get it
Could you cobble together a little example?
 
@Aran-Fey Yeah, although it may take a while.
 
I don't mind waiting, unless the only reason it takes so long is because you're busy defining pointless classes :P
 
morning cabbages, all
 
1:43 PM
@Kevin If the lists are homogenous the typing seems, shall we say, gratuitous.
 
def foo(var: list, list_is_bad: bool = False): ...
 
This little example will be somewhat less than minimal, alas
 
@Kevin this is a bad idea. You want to check List[BadWidget], not BadWidgetList. Just wait, oh, 5 more years until IPv4/6 dualstack is no longer a hassle and Python can do that out of the box.
 
2:01 PM
@Kevin that MS-Paint editing though..
 
pastebin.com/84AzbGhE. My goal here is to perform validation on objects to confirm that they conform to a particular structure. I can verify that an object is a certain type, and has certain attributes, and I can recursively validate the values of those attributes.
MisterMiyagi's crystal ball is particularly clear today, since he guessed that I'm doing type validation
AnyOf and ObjectSchema are pointless subclasses of list and dict respectively. I use them instead of regular list and dict, because is_valid([1,2], x) should have a different result than is_valid(AnyOf([1,2]), x)
is_valid([1,2], [1,2])          -> True
is_valid([1,2], 1)              -> False
is_valid([1,2], 2)              -> False
is_valid([1,2], 3)              -> False
is_valid(AnyOf([1,2]), [1,2])   -> False
is_valid(AnyOf([1,2]), 1)       -> True
is_valid(AnyOf([1,2]), 2)       -> True
is_valid(AnyOf([1,2]), 3)       -> True
 
That seems fine, actually. I think the problem here is that you've stuffed everything into the is_valid function - your code would be more extensible if you moved the relevant if-branches into the respective classes (AnyOf or ObjectSchema), at which point they would no longer be "useless"
 
I suppose, but I'd still need a non-method is_valid implementation because I need to be able to call is_valid when schema is a builtin type
I can't do (1).is_valid(1) for instance
I notice I forgot to actually forgot to support ints in my code, so let me just... pastebin.com/VusaYiN2
 
it looks like you are reinventing pattern matching. Would you like help? github.com/santinic/pampy
 
2:17 PM
The "make is_valid a method where possible" approach would look like pastebin.com/DHYcq0FL, and it is a bit cleaner, to my eye...
 
@MisterMiyagi 10/10 Clippy impersonation
wonder what the purple jedi lady has to do with pattern matching
oof, from pampy import _
 
I guess some localization modules also use _, still weird to me (and risky in a REPL)
 
you can also use ANY if the _ is too painful ;)
 
maybe someone can suggest pattern matching in future versions of python...
 
2:20 PM
@MisterMiyagi that's comforting, actually
 
@Aran-Fey what's that ast import doing in there? D:
 
except ANY kind of goes against every other language that uses pattern matching that I know of lol.
 
@MisterMiyagi leftovers from the original code
 
@Aran-Fey C'mon we need a minimal verifiable example :P
 
What I'd really like is a way to define schemas for ast objects without actually having to hand-craft every ast type in the hierarchy. If I could define "df.isna() and df.notna() are valid, everything else isn't" as "df.<isna|notna>()", that would be great
 
2:23 PM
@MisterMiyagi seems like fun
 
I'm still searching for an excuse to actually use it
 
@Kevin At this point it sounds like you just want a language that isn't Python.
 
and "df.str.contains is valid, but only if the first argument is a string, and the na keyword argument is a boolean, or not supplied" as "df.str.contains(<str>, <optional: na=<bool>>)"
 
@Dair We're always talking about Kevinscript in here.
 
... Or something of that nature. The exact syntax is entirely negotiable.
 
2:25 PM
also, recbg
 
I think if you put f=False you can chop some characters so I would say it still isn't minimal :P
actually nvm...
 
Ugh, since when does gail have "autocorrect"? I started seeing transient green dashes a few days ago and now it replaced my Hungarian text with an English word.
 
Actually, yes you can golf it more...
 
gail->gmail... I'm devolving
 
2:29 PM
@Kevin Are you trying to create a better panda?
 
panda?
 
@AndrasDeak sounds like you need autocorrect :p
 
@Aran-Fey :PP
 
laurel
that was pretty good :P
 
pandas...
 
2:31 PM
knowing kevin, i feel like this is probably an attempt to create a safe sandbox, or in some part related to that issue.
 
@Aran-Fey just wait until you're discussing furniture without accents and it replaces mobel with model
 
@Dair I'm trying to supplement pandas, I guess. This is all just a revisit of the idea I proposed during this discussion, about how one could create a whitelist-based sandbox in order to safely call eval() on suspicious user input
 
gives Mr. Miyagi back the crystal ball
 
The validator I wrote at that time was both very ugly and incomplete. Now I think I could write a solution that is complete and merely moderately ugly.
 
@Kevin So, create a language. Specifically a transpiler to python/pandas?
 
2:33 PM
@Kevin sounds like a good hamburger
 
@ParitoshSingh hands Paritosh an honorary crystal marble
 
@AndrasDeak "I went to the model store today, but I found none I liked"
 
Can i interest you in some nlp ?
 
not pretty enough for the price...
 
2:59 PM
@AndrasDeak Looks like that might not play too well interactively?
 
yeah
But then again docs.python.org/3/library/gettext.html#gettext.gettext. But then again then again that might be less likely to be used interactively, I've no idea.
 
Not worrying too much about it TBH.
 
Proposal: make REPLs emit a warning if "_" is bound by anything other than the REPL engine
 
Probably wouldn't hurt.
 
File under "marginally useful, but less marginally useful than the ten thousand other feature proposals currently under review"
 
3:10 PM
Been looking for this one for a while!
5
 
Tim Peters, although not Dutch, sounds quite interesting
 
> GUI stuff is supposed to be hard. It builds character.

Jim Ahlstrom, at one of the early Python workshops
Ah, so the neglected-stepchildness of Tkinter is a feature, not a bug
The founders could not have forseen the invention of Stack Overflow, an ingenious tool that transfers suffering from those that need it to me
"you have done me the favor of underestimating my ignorance"... "Another approach is to renounce all worldly goods and retreat to a primitive cabin in Montana, where you can live a life of purity, unpolluted by technological change" ... "now that there's absolutely no reason to continue with this, the amount of my life I'm willing to devote to it is unbounded"... These guys are totally ripping off my personal brand!
Tim Peters, meet me in the parking lot behind the Denny's and we'll settle this
 
3:26 PM
I knew Tim Peters before I met you, and always assumed you must have something in common. Now I find out it's a parking-lot fight :-(
@AndrasDeak Tim is a hoot.
 
Not all Denny's parking lot conflicts end with a fistfight. Sometimes you find common ground and go inside to discuss radical ideas over ham and eggs.
 
Sometimes you shake hands and finally fuse back into the one being you had been before the split
 
Tim arrives in the parking lot, sees me, shouts "It's escaped containment! But how???" and immediately flees
 
3:40 PM
I'm thinking of plagiarizing the <0.9 wink> syntax used in those quotes, as a replacement for my usual "half serious suggestion:" annotation, since the ability to use any decimal number between 0 and 1 will give me much finer granularity of sincerity
"0.9 serious suggestion" doesn't parse very well
Unrelated topic. Yesterday I saw a commenter say "there's only thing that should appear after if __name__ == "__main__":, and it's main()". Discuss.
I rarely bother to write a main function, as doing so increases my line count by 2 without much of a practical benefit. On the other hand, there's something to be said for making it crystal clear which variables in your code are intended to be global
 
I must seriously have sinned in a previous life to be reviewing this PHP (holds nose) "code"
 
I agree that putting the code in a main function is ideal, but it's really not a big deal if you don't
 
#program1.py
#not shown: f and g's implementation
if __name__ == "__main__":
    x = 23
    f(x)
    g()


#program2.py
#not shown: f and g's implementation
def main():
    x = 23
    f(x)
    g()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()
 
I also prefer the main() variant - it means the important part isn't crammed right at the bottom of the script
 
In program2, you know with complete certainty that g will not try to access the value of x, because x is not global. In program1, you can't be so certain. It would be pretty cruddy design if it did, but it's still possible so you have to keep that possibility in the back of your mind
 
3:53 PM
@Kevin umm... not sure I see the "which variables in your code are intended to be global" side - just more whatever's there that might execute - probably shouldn't do so without it being the main module
 
@MisterMiyagi Yes, being able to put main's definition right at the top of the file is an attractive selling point. That was the commenter's primary argument, incidentally.
 
My main reason for using a main function is because it allows me to use return to exit early ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
either way, I rarely need "__main__" - usually I'm writing a library xor a script
 
Same.
More power to devs that write modules that are both importable and usable from the command line, but I am not that kind of dev
 
4:01 PM
@Aran-Fey errr.... hows that work?
 
I used "__main__" for the first time in a long time recently. I'm reimplementing some R code to use inside a Django project and needed a way to run my code without firing up the full Django environment.
 
def main():
    if not sys.argv:
        print('You forgot to pass command line arguments, you fool')
        return

    ...  # do stuff
 
@MisterMiyagi Makes for easy implementation of console entry points, and allows testing of the main function too.
 
@JonClements ^^
 
Python devs, please allow return at the global scope
 
4:02 PM
@Aran-Fey yeah, but sys.argv is always true :)
 
@Kevin sys.exit().
 
it's a bit heavy on the "pseudo" and lacking in "code", I know (:
 
and if it's an error you should either sys.exit(some_code) or raise SystemExit kind of thing
 
@Code-Apprentice But the parenthesis keys are so far away from the home row ;_;
I want a programming language that uses only letters and space and newline
 
@Kevin ahh... the old controversial longjmp :)
 
4:05 PM
@Kevin I call my mains "do_stuff" usually :D
 
@JonClements Hmm, good point actually. I never really bothered with exit codes because I don't do any shell scripting or similar stuff
 
@Kevin haskell...oh wait, they go crazy with operator overloading
but they don't use parens nearly as much because function application is just a space
 
@Aran-Fey for shell stuff, I generally make stuff importable and executable (like some Python builtins)
all the executable stuff in its __main__ (whatever one chooses to do it) is parse command lines, and then use the functions defined in its own module
 
I'll attempt baking a pizza...wish me luck
 
then what main becomes is just some argparse
 
4:08 PM
We're cheering for you, Andras
 
I'll try to do better than my best
 
@AndrasDeak I like pizza.... sneaks inside the kitchen, in the corner invisible and silent, and watches the oven.. - licks nose.
 
My program architecture varies a lot depending on the scale/seriousness of the project to be honest... The scale goes from "a script that I'll run one time, then delete" all the way to "a project that I'm planning to use a lot and maybe eventually release for public use", and the higher a project lands on this scale the harder I try to properly separate everything into individual units
 
Delete??
 
don't worry, I never clear my garbage bin anyway
it's all still there... somewhere
 
4:15 PM
garbage bin??
 
who delete's code?
 
I'm sure I'll have no problem figuring out which of the 7 "temp.py" files is the one I'm looking for
 
that's what vcs is for
but I'm probably weird that way...I git init everything
and most of those get pushed up to GitHub, too
 
meanwhile, I'm sure at least 90% of my projects have unpushed (and possibly uncommitted) changes
 
programmers with commitment issues
 
4:22 PM
I never delete code, but I do frequently click "yes" when Notepad tells me "test.py already exists. Overwrite anyway?"
4
Only when code becomes truly interesting is it worthy of being named something else
 
4:45 PM
@Kevin "Notepad"? :p
 
Notepad++--
 
is there some recommended vote/response for "I'm installing to an unsupported version and get errors"? stackoverflow.com/questions/57978588/…
 
If we can call Python 3 "Python", I can call Notepad++ "Notepad"
 
@MisterMiyagi 3.2.4, wow
@Kevin and if python 2 is pythoff then notepad is nopepad?
 
The expression Notepad++ resolves to a reference to the variable Notepad anyway
 
4:46 PM
@MisterMiyagi I'm afraid that's fair game as far as SO goes, even if on the RTFM side
 
... I think. C and its imitators are hard.
Nope, it's preincrement that evaluates to the updated value, not postincrement.
 
perhaps ++ is overloaded for Notepad?
 
@Aran-Fey Pancake 1, the pizza is out of the oven. I repeat, the pizza is out of the oven. (I almost dropped it afterward on the floor, with emphasis on the "almost")
 
Engaging in mobile chat while holding hot baked goods in the other hand: not advised
"Pizza is a baked good" is the new "a hotdog in a bun is a sandwich" and "milk is a broth if it's poured over cereal"
 
Especially Smarties cereal
 
4:57 PM
I guess that's one way to kill a cereal. Guess that makes you a... cereal killer :P
 
Why so cereal? 🤡
 
@Kevin wait, I thought a hotdog in a bun was a hotdog
US metonymy is getting out of hand
 
Colloquially yeah although this raises concerns about infinitely nested hotdogs
If a hotdog in a bun is a hotdog, then a hotdog in a bun in a bun in a bun in ... (repeat N times) ... in a bun is a hotdog, too.
When creating a hotdog validator, make sure to check for loops where a bun is in itself
 
And I heard hare is delicious, so perhaps sometimes bun is in the hotdog
 
that's pure poetry
 
5:14 PM
@AndrasDeak Well done! (Except for the dropping part, but hey - good enough)
 
I'm quite proud myself, thanks
In unrelated news, some thriller in Aviation HNQ
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
@Kevin Channelling him, I'm sure Tim would endorse that (sorry, in the pub catching up).
 
5:17 PM
Idk what it is but cbg is so much more welcoming than hello
 
@Kevin -1 Argumentative. :P
 
If I don't occasionally turn everyone against each other, what's stopping them from realizing their collective power and overthrowing me?
 
@Kevin +1. Globals must die. Next: instance namespaces. Onwards to the functional revolution!
 
@Kevin ok calm down Machiavelli
 
@Kevin wait a second, we're allowed to do that? grabs a pitchfork
 
5:20 PM
@JonClements PHP was fine in its original incarnation as a database substitution system. Then it started to get fancy ideas about being a programming language and six versions later it's an odiferous programming language.
 
cabbage
 
@holdenweb I'm getting a strange deja-vu from your delayed replies. It's just as if life was flashing by my eyes, but with audio commentary.
 
@MisterMiyagi <inching towards the exit> no, definitely not allowed...
 
Sounds rather kinesthetic.
 
*throws Kevin over the podium so he can occupy the top place as he deserves*
 
5:22 PM
it's certainly something to behold
 
Maybe I'll just catch up quietly. It strikes me that these comments are possibly the textual equivalent of senescent mumblings.
 
isn't that why we're all here?
 
With age one's skull* gradually thins and all those thoughts start seeping out
 
Being declared the sacred king is all fun and games until seven days later when you're thrown into the volcano in order to ensure a good harvest
 
At different stages of senescence, in which dimension I suspect I can confidently claim priority.
 
5:23 PM
skull? whats a skull?
 
(*does not apply to any brains in jars)
 
@AndrasDeak But then there's the smile curve - think this but with the vertical access as "worth to employing organisation."
 
@holdenweb I am generally in favor of very late replies because if they were forbidden then I would only get 25% as many interesting math facts from PM 2Ring. Thanks to our differing schedules, the window of opportunity for "your message reminded me of this cool thing" replies in real-time is pretty small.
 
I must be worth at least a microCerf on any Internet reputations scale.
@Kevin There are schools of thought on that. Some people appreciate the instant responses (myself included when I have a question). I suppose what I'm saying is I respect this channel enough to go back and look at what it's been saying while I was busy (sometimes).
I like the Usenet-ty aspect, which is that the channel happens when it happens, and sometimes you have to be there. But I also like to inject the occasional mental fart as I head toward my dotage.
 
your allegedly elderly allegedly ramblings are always appreciated ;)
 
5:31 PM
No allegedly about it. I'll be 70 next.
 
show of hands: would you prefer type annotations for callables as '(A, B) -> R' strings or (A, B) >> R expressions?
 
@MisterMiyagi latter: ew no
@holdenweb nice!
 
My son will be 50 next, so as a young parent I was a bit more in touch with later generations than the parents who sensibly waited.
 
Expressions I suppose, although I'm not likely to use any kind of type annotation voluntarily
 
@MisterMiyagi Stop encouraging them!
 
5:33 PM
In Hungarian we have a saying that "old man: not an old man" which makes more sense in Hungarian because it contains two different words for old. Ultimately implying that having many years behind you doesn't handicap you
a bit similarly to how "the blind leading the blind" contains two different words for blindness in Hungarian :D
 
In some ways it does, but in other ways it can be quite liberating. I still love to disappoint people's expectations.
 
I bet :)
 
cbg all
 
cbg
I just realized the second occurence of "old" in that sentence is actually more or less a genderless word for "crone"
 
Untranslatable idioms are the best kind of idiom
 
5:37 PM
I'll stop myself from reading LostInTranslation @ tvtropes
 
 
That sort of reminds me: @Arne, I've finally realized why your new avatar is off to me. It reminds me way too much of Charlton Heston laughing like a madman
 
I can see that, yeah
 
6:05 PM
It's good to credibly convey that you're capable of becoming a madman. For it is written:
> Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live.
 
^ and usually its you
 
6:18 PM
Past Kevin has written some shoddy code that I've had to deal with and I'd definitely challenge him to a fistfight in the Denny's parking lot if I could. But not even my trademark move, The Lightspeed Punch, can reach him. I'd need a Faster Than Lightspeed Punch.
 
Must be frustrating that Past Kevin can easily make your life miserable. Like getting drunk and letting you sort out the hangover.
 
Even more frustrating that past Kevin didn't even think about the consequences :)
 
@holdenweb in the "early days" - I wouldn't knock php for being a convenient cgi
 
Past Kevin thinks thoroughly about consequences, he just gives 10000% weight to consequences that will occur in the next thirty minutes, and 0.00001% weight to anything farther out
 
@JonClements Me neither - that was its primary appeal before it got ideas above its station.
 
6:23 PM
something something calculated risk
 
@holdenweb I wonder if any many people here actually had to use/remember cgi :p
 
And so time travel was invented by Kevin, so that he could go back in time and smack past-Kevin for being such a git
 
I did a very small amount of cgi back in my perl days
 
I certainly did, both in Perl and Python. Glad to be rid of it.
@LinkBerest [Commentator] Alas, this did not affect the future in the way Kevin had anticipated.
 
These days I associate it with "the web technology that was once very widespread and now hated, perhaps to an unjustified extent"
Roughly the same trajectory as PHP, then
 
6:30 PM
@AndrasDeak ha, now I can't unsee it
 
I harbor a certain fondness for any tech that can get you from an empty file to "Hello, World!" in thirty seconds, and IIRC cgi qualified for that category. Python is in that same category.
 
@Arne just laugh it off
 
6:50 PM
In the blog with Joel - "Joel: The big picture there is, the school system should have given up on trigonometry and calculus a long time ago and started teaching statistics and probability. The discrete math is a lot more useful." I find that statement quite jarring :/
 
well, I guess we can just be thankful that Joel is not responsible for our respective countries' educational system ;)
a.k.a. spot the (ex-)CEO
 
I think prob/stat has more day-to-day applicability than it gets credit for
 
my major bug bear is that systems in PHP - it seems that most people don't use a framework differing between templates and executable code... (admittedly this is quite an old system, but still).
 
It probably does. However, shame if nobody could get to school because we didn't have, say, cars to get the kids there.
 
You're watching a commercial on TV. "Our competitor's product is three times more likely to cause serious side effects than our own product". Perhaps the average watcher thinks "wow! How is it even legal for a product to be so dangerous?", and the prob/stat-savvy watcher thinks, "so... I'm guessing it's a difference between a 0.003% chance and a 0.001% chance? Why did you even bother mentioning it?"
 
6:55 PM
Nobody says statistics is useless. Joel is saying trig and calculus is.
 
I think it depends on what you think the purpose of schools should be.
 
Mind you, I think the only reason PHP is still a thing is because of WordPress, and I have suspicions that while I quite like ruby, it's only getting there because of the Ruby on Rails momentum...
 
If the purpose of schools is "educate everyone well enough that they can operate in ordinary society and hold down an unskilled job", then you really don't need trig and calc. If the purpose is "give everyone a shot to discover what niche skill they have aptitude for", then trig and calc is essential if we want anyone to enter the STEM pipeline
 
Neither of which aim suddenly suggests that you should drop one aspect of math for another
 
@AndrasDeak xD
 
6:59 PM
Probability and statistics are taught at school. Or at least all the way through my education
 
@Arne that's the spirit :D
 
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

« first day (3258 days earlier)      last day (1690 days later) »