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01:17
cbg
cbg
@ParitoshSingh I meant with Python :P
01:45
cbg patch
why has it been so quiet as of late
 
5 hours later…
06:40
cbg
I am reading up design patterns from Head First Design Pattern, but I can't find a good resource on how to implement them in Python
anyone have any experience with it?
alak, i do not
i am trying to figure out if beautifulsoup has a bug in it atm
no worries!
actually it looks like the file i was looking at has bugs
 
3 hours later…
09:17
Hello Guys
I want to create, utility program in python which scan the full host list of existing network class with user defined option.But without using nmap module
09:31
@MuhammadAmmar If this has to do with your new question on main please wait 2 days before asking here as per our rules
Okay,Since I am new to chat room, I will consider the rules while asking
Thank you :)
10:30
Sum of Pairs

Given a list of integers and a single sum value, return the first two values (parse from the left please) in order of appearance that add up to form the sum.

sum_pairs([11, 3, 7, 5], 10)
# ^--^ 3 + 7 = 10
== [3, 7]

sum_pairs([4, 3, 2, 3, 4], 6)
# ^-----^ 4 + 2 = 6, indices: 0, 2 *
# ^-----^ 3 + 3 = 6, indices: 1, 3
# ^-----^ 2 + 4 = 6, indices: 2, 4
# * entire pair is earlier, and therefore is the correct answer
(see full text)
How to solve this problem efficiently?
My attempt(Which works, but is slow):
def sum_pairs(x,y):
t = len(x)
F = []
C = []
for i in range(t):
    for k in range(i,t):
        if i == k:
            continue
        if x[i] + x[k] == y:
            F.append(i)
            F.append(k)
            C.append(F)
            F = []
G = []
if len(C) > 1:
    for i in range(len(C)):
        G.append(C[i][1])
    m = min(G)
    for i in C:
        if i[1] == m:
            G = []
            G.append(x[i[0]])
            G.append(x[i[1]])
            return G
elif len(C) == 1:
    G = []
(see full text)
I know it works because it has passed the sample tests.
One straightforward optimization: only loop once for val in x, and see if y - val is also in the list, and with what index. Speedup suggestion: create a set from the list too and filter your search based on y - val in that_set (O(1)), only check for index (O(n)) if there's a potential match. Watch out for y = 2*val edge case.
Although the specs are unclear for choosing the winner: I'd have expected [1,5] to beat [3,4]. "Entire pair is earlier" is nonsense. As usual with coding challenge sites.
Depending on the real specs it's probably enough to loop until the middle of the list
@AndrasDeak That optimization would only work in the case when there are no desired pairs in the list.
From the section of Speedup suggestion: On what basis, I mean what would be the criteria of val to be in that set?
@AndrasDeak That would fail when there is only one pair and both of the elements of the pair lies at the end of the list.
@AjayMishra good point
@AjayMishra I don't understand that
Style note: don't call them x and y. Y could be target or something meaningful.
@AndrasDeak Oh, Sorry. That would only work if len(desired_pairs) < 2
10:47
Because that condition would be true for two values.
Do you mean, to break as soon as a value is found? Then that might not satisfy the criteria of having the entire pair to be earlier.
@AjayMishra no
the [3,7] vs [1,5] example would break if we broke early
I didn't get you at all
I'm just saying I never said to stop with the loop when a pair is found.
You still have to collect candidates to fulfil whatever the problem's designer had in mind
Since you need indices you'd need for ind,val in enumerate(lst) etc.
11:12
heya guys
Can anyone help me getting question unbanned. I dont know what to do about my previous questions to fix it..
@Hudlommen When you say "unbanned", do you mean re-opened after being closed?
@connectyourcharger i am not allowed to ask questions on stack-overflow because i got banned. I think i ask ok questions but they get no upvotes so i just keep getting banned
@AjayMishra We had this question a few days ago. See Kevin's suggestion chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/47138627#47138627
@Hudlommen If you are question-banned, all I can recommend is this help page (follow everything it says exactly and you may be allowed to ask questions again): stackoverflow.com/help/question-bans
I was actually question-banned as a newer user, too.
@connectyourcharger yeah but the problem is that i was chat banned like 3-4 years ago. And after the 6 months, i try and ask some good questions, follow all the recommendations, be very nice when ppl ask questions and all that. But after 2-3 questions, banned again. I have once tried to go back through my posts and fix it, got 24 karma (or what its called), but nothing ever happened.
question banned*
11:22
@Hudlommen You've got a couple of deleted and downvoted questions from 2 years ago, but I don't see how you can salvage those (one wasn't even related to programming at all)... I don't see anything obvious to improve your last two questions... maybe if the folks here have a moment to make suggestions they can but they're not obliged to...
@Hudlommen My recommendation is to use the step-by-step question asking guide next time you are allowed to ask a question. It's really helpful and helps you plan out your questions (just used it the first time the other day myself).
@JonClements yeah exacly, and that was pointed out back then, fair enough. But there is just nothing to do now apart from being lucky and ask a question alot of people upvote. Because i am just a hobby programmer i can't really answer questions.
@connectyourcharger i always use that :)
that's understandable
and yes, it's a lovely tool
@connectyourcharger yeah it really is. Its a great way of helping new people ask good questions. - But the problem is you come as a non-programmer and ask questions to people that do it for a living. I would love to expect the same standards of my patients -_-
that's understandable, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can't give you any more advice than to just stick to the help page :(
11:29
@connectyourcharger i think i sadly just have to ghost this account and start over
well I wouldn't do that
unless you want a completely fresh start
@connectyourcharger well unless someone can parten my account, then i kinda have to.
yeah, unfortunately, that almost never happens
@connectyourcharger no, and i have waited for years now.
okay, well I wish you the best of luck wherever you may go
11:34
@connectyourcharger well you will most likely see me as Hudlomme2 soon :P
12:14
cabbage
Where was your avatar picture (the one on SO) taken @Hudlommen? This looks like a nic place to go hiking.
looks beautiful
13:06
@PM2Ring Again useless, see my code please :) . The problem is that there are many such possiblem pairs, suppose my list [5, 4, 3,2, 1, 9, 8 ,7 ,6, 5]
you have to sekect 1,9 but you wont get that throught kevin algo
@ReblochonMasque it is taking in Austria on a mountain called Hoher Dachstein. It has the "stairway to nothingness" and that is where i am stood.
@connectyourcharger i used my hudlommen2 account (i have used it loads before) but now i asked my question. BAM account locked for 2 weeks. Even the question is gone. I spend a long time getting it all just right :(
@ReblochonMasque So yes a very nice place to be. But i would say (out of what little experience i have of Austria) a better hike was on a mountain, by something called Untersbergbahn. Wonderful place where you can see all of Salzburg from.
@AjayMishra What do you mean? Kevin's algorithm finds (1, 9) for that list & a sum of 10.
13:27
@AjayMishra how about some humility when you are the one asking for a favour?
See also PM's pinned message
Aug 20 at 9:35, by PM 2Ring
Imagine that you won a competition, and the prize is a free session with a Python think-tank who normally charge $1000 per hour. Don't waste that prize!
@AndrasDeak is this chat the 1000$ per hour place?
It's a metaphor, but yes. Read the surrounding discussion in the chat transcript by clicking the date.
@Hudlommen Invoices will have the wire transfer instructions.
@AndrasDeak I am not disagreeing, i just wanted to be sure i understood you correct. Because i can see your point. How do i ask questions like @AjayMishra did higher up?
@AaronHall ^^
What do you mean? People just ask. As long as it fits the rules it's fine, but our patience is finite.
13:37
@Hudlommen sorry, was making a small joke with no context... :D
@AndrasDeak very
And frankly people asking for help then showing an attitude grind my gears.
@AaronHall yeah i know :D
@AndrasDeak oh for sure. I understand. But back to the question, how do i share code like that, so it shows correct. More so i dont spam the chat with 100 lines of useless stuff
Ah. It's better to use a code paste service for longer code. For shorter see sopython.com/wiki/…
Is pastebin fine?
13:40
Sure
And dont go crazy and ban me from the chat please. Its my last out
But here is my code:
@Hudlommen Mostly, although some people may not be able to access pastebin.
@PM2Ring ok. Lets hope it works then :)
and this is what i get out
So what happens is, that i get the initial data from twitch when i login. That is all good. I am then allowed to send 1-2 messages to the server, but then they stop making it through. No errors are comming up, but the message is not shown on the twitch channel.
When i try to collect data with .recv() i get a time out execpt.
@Hudlommen As a new user, you have a very few opportunities where you can demonstrate your usefulness to the site. Cooperating and having a pleasant disposition helps you if you're not experienced. If you can break through where you've earned a bit of credit, people will be more patient with you. You can edit posts to improve them and some people (not all) even put great stock in vote counts and flagging.
@AaronHall well that ship is sailed. I tried to fix it years back but my account has been in that semi-banned state ever since. I can ask a question or two every 6 months
@AaronHall It happened because i went into this chat place and asked why my posts got downvoted. Then ive been in bad standing ever since.
13:50
I think the trick here is to try to give more than you get.
@AaronHall i am all up for that. I am just not a programmer. I have never had any programming training so all i know is from this forum and youtube. I am doing my masters in Clinical Science and Technology. So the focus is not programming since we are supposed to work with the engineers for that part. But i really love programming and i think i have made it pretty far, but not to a point where i can really help others on a forum like this.
I'm not digging into any history, this conversation is just one user to another, but when I see a 34 point account, I think they're either brand new (i.e. created last week) or they're not making an effort. Learn how to fix up other people's questions, and when your edits pass review you'll earn 2 rep each. You can do that up to 500 times or until you're over 2k rep.
@AndrasDeak Any idea what could be wrong?
@AaronHall i am simply not that invested in the community and i never will be. Is there any other place i can go instead of SO?
14:00
@Hudlommen hang out in your uni's CS computer lab?
Tons of places. Reddit, quora, codementor...
that's what I did before SO - those guys helped me get on Linux.
@AaronHall how would i have time for that? As i said, this is just a hobby thing.
Yeah, reddit is also a good one...
@Hudlommen I was writing a lot of papers while working on my master's degree, I presume any other masters would have lots of papers too...
@AaronHall yeah, big clinical project every semester on top of classes ofc.
14:03
@Hudlommen would a meetup group also be too much of a commitment? Because those exist in every bigger city too
they'd probably love to help you - meet the right people and it might open some doors for you.
Yeah no, im fine with just hacking away at small problems and if i hit a snag like this one, ask on the internet. Why would i waste all that time.
yeah, investing the time to learn things is the worst
I suggest hiring people who will do the work for you
@AndrasDeak i am doing that. But i dont have time to meet up with strangers that also know python in the local bigger city because i have a socket() question?
i am simply not that invested in the community and i never will be.
That's exactly why you've gotten question banned. Not being invested implies not trying to comply. That leads to asking badly received questions.
you don't have to create value to find help on SO, but you certainly have to respect the time and effort of those who do
14:07
@AndrasDeak i dont think my question is stupid and where i have searched for an answer there has been non. So why is this the wrong place to ask this question? I am seeking help by people who know their shit, because i dont. If it takes for me to answer other peoples question about stuff i know nothing off, i cant see how this forum is winning anything
@Hudlommen That is a fair stance to have, but as Andras said, then you can't really be surprised if the community doesn't appreciate you
@Arne oh no, ive know that for a long time.
@Hudlommen That's where you're mistaken: this is not a forum, and it's not designed to help you. It's designed to create a common knowledge base; the fact that people ask questions for us to get there is a side-effect.
since you only indent to receive, and don't care about contributing
@Arne But i am not in anyones way. I am just trying to figure out why i get disconnected from the twitch chat
14:09
well yes you are
bad questions clutter the queue
chat could work for vague help, but there's only so much we can help with (see my earlier link about asking for help)
@Arne i do, but only when i can. I am no asking you to answer medical questions to come get treated in hospital do i?
and take review time away from questions and members that are more invested in having a healthy community
@Arne but my question is not damaging the community, when i get help i always thank people and so on. I just have nothing to help with
hmm
14:11
@AndrasDeak there are, but again i can't ask questions and Hudlommen2 got banned for 2 weeks
@Hudlommen you want the benefits of relationships without making the required effort. And that's only human, but that's also unrealistic. You have to make an effort. Maybe that's harder for you than for others here. Hospitals cost money, whether the patient, insurer, or government pays, they're paying for service. Nobody here is being paid. We're all strictly volunteers.
For the record I disagree that you have to answer questions to get help. But you have to ask an on-topic question on main, or ask an answerable question in chat.
@AaronHall I understand. But what can i pay? Should i just start answering questions i have no idea about just to get more rep?
rep is irrelevant
@AndrasDeak but i cant. my account has been semi-blocked for years now
14:13
Indeed. Though I'm told you get a free question every 6 months; make the best of those.
@AndrasDeak look at my last questions as Hudlommen and Hudlommen2, they are not bad or idiotic questions.
@AndrasDeak yeah i know. look at them. What am i to do?
and you can still ask in chat but most people won't review 100 lines of code with a vague problem statement
@Hudlommen I've proposed you make edits to build rep. I don't have the evidence right in front of me, but I think more rep grants you more questions.
@Hudlommen I can't see anything majorly wrong with that code, but it's hard to debug code without running it. At least one of our regulars knows a bit about twitch. They aren't here right now, but they may have suggestions.
@PM2Ring ok, thanks. Ill stick around to see what they have to say :)
@AaronHall how?
@AaronHall my own questions are clearly not good enough, so how am i to fix others?
14:15
So what Aaron's been talking about are the mechanics of being question-banned on main. What I've been talking about is mostly social dynamics.
@Hudlommen They're often here during USA business hours. Not so much on the weekends.
@PM2Ring ok. Ill try tomorrow then, or whenever the business hours are. Im in Denmark.
@Hudlommen I think the mechanism is hidden so it's not gamed.
@AndrasDeak yeah.
@AaronHall would make sense.
@Hudlommen You'll need to clearly explain what that code's supposed to do. We can kind of guess, but it's better if you can be explicit, especially since that code has no comments.
14:19
@Hudlommen Some people have earned a lot of rep points asking questions. I haven't figured out their secret sauce yet. I know I like questions where when I read the question I learn something new. Are you making it easy for the less skilled readers of your question to understand what you're doing and where you're stuck?
@PM2Ring i did, but my post as Hudlommen2 got removed. Its a bit hard to do it in the chat
@AaronHall I try. But ill have my next go in 6 months.
@Hudlommen One problem I've noticed is that you aren't using sockets right (like 99% of people). You can't rely on socket.send(data) to send all of the data, and you can't rely on socket.recv() to return all the data. You have to use socket.sendall(data) and call socket.recv() in a loop until you have all the data you need
^ Good point.
@Hudlommen We're a little more relaxed in here than on the main site, but we still need people to give clear problem statements if they want help.
@Hudlommen It was probably not a great idea to mention that you have another account in front of a mod. ;)
just to pin, no context:
Code formatting guide for chat, please practice in the sandbox if necessary.
Maybe we should consider putting that link into the room description...
14:28
so that it would be read as much as the rules? :(
can't hurt I guess
@PM2Ring dosen´t matter really. I would rather just have my main account unblocked so i could restart and not just make more accounts.
room topic changed to Python: The *productive programming cabbage. Guide to formatting code in chat. Room rules: sopython.com/chatroom [python] [python-2.x] [python-3.x]*
room topic changed to Python: The *productive programming cabbage. Guide to formatting code in chat : sopython.com/wiki/…. Room rules: sopython.com/chatroom [python] [python-2.x] [python-3.x]*
how ironic
@Aran-Fey okay. All the guides just use this method. But i will look into it, see if i can make it work like that.
14:32
One more edit, and I can't move those messages into the knives, sorry.
random guides you've found somewhere on the internet tend to be have wrong and/or bad code
though guides about sockets are even worse than usual
room topic changed to Python: The *productive programming cabbage. Guide to formatting code in chat: sopython.com/wiki/…. Room rules: sopython.com/chatroom [python] [python-2.x] [python-3.x]*
unfortunately on mobile neither the topic nor the starboard are visible
@Aran-Fey yeah but i also looked at sentdex and he seems (at least to me) to be a bit better at doing his guides. He did a 5 parter on youtube i watched.
I honestly can't recall if the room description was properly formatted before
pro-tip: random youtube guides are not a good source
Aug 26 at 10:36, by roganjosh
@jack.py FWIW I used to follow sentdex's tutorials when I was starting out. His code actually isn't that great once you have a footing to be able to evaluate it, but his projects are still pretty cool and span a huge range of things. It might give you some inspiration.
Aug 26 at 10:48, by Reblochon Masque
meh sentdex
14:34
@AndrasDeak I see it in the Info menu, but the Formatting Guide URL gets partly cut off.
Well info menu yes, but you have to look for it. Same as the starboard.
Oh, and the link is not a link on the info page. Amazing!
at least it's a link on desktop when you're in the room, which is probably the most common use case
@AndrasDeak no i know. But it was what i could find. Hence why i ended up asking here.
user10984358
I don't mean to barge in, but @Hudlommen tbh if one got banned why not create and another and just not repeat what you did? I know how it is when people dont answer your question, from your perspective it is just the all-knowing SO users, but in reality everyone here learns soemthing new
user10984358
I didn't really read much into the convo, but I am sorry if it came of as rude or "nonnuva business"
@TheNamesAlc i did. Hudlommen2 and it got banned. Or put in the box.
14:40
@TheNamesAlc that's explicitly forbidden. It's called a ban-evasion account and it's a no-no.
@TheNamesAlc once you are blacklistet, its over. You have one go :P
user10984358
welp i messed up
I too haven't read the whole conversation, but I'm of a different opinion: I don't think asking good questions requires any kind of expertise. It doesn't matter if you're a senior dev or a complete beginner. If you've hit the point where you got question banned, it's probably time to stop trying - your alt account likely won't fare any better than your original account.
user10984358
14:42
I didnt know that was a thing, I always assumed people had alts, do SO users "smurf" ?
@TheNamesAlc i can ask my question again in 6 months. I wasted my last question on a webscrape project with PubMed and EMBASE in mind.
it's not ban evasion if you're not banned
user10984358
that made it rhetorical
@TheNamesAlc I don't know what smurfing is but if you read the FAQ I linked to you'll see what is allowed and what isn't
14:44
@Aran-Fey i got banned years ago. I did the whole "clean up your act" thing. So i now can at least chat in here. But i can only ask few questions
ah, if the ban happened a long time ago then I suppose there's some hope for you still
user10984358
smurfing is basically you create new accounts and do stuff on that so as to not affect your main account, RPG for instance, so you dont lose points, thats off topic, sorry for having used a slang though
slang is fine as long as it's not offensive
Anyways, talking more about it wont help. Ive asked many times to be unbanned but it wont happen. If anyone knows about my problem, help would be fantastic :)
@AndrasDeak can my question from the Hudlommen2 account be moved over to this account at least?
I doubt it
14:46
sigh
user10984358
you can ask reddit, there's plethora of kind souls out there if you ask in the right way, reddit was my go to until I found this though I feel like chat is useful if you can ask what you want in the simplest way possible
look, multiple accounts are risky, you'll be tempted to vote for yourself. If you do, you'll be caught, because SO owns the computers. I recommend not to. I allude to it in my own main-site profile description.
@AaronHall do you think hudlommen3 would be too obvious?
Even if you don't vote on yourself asking questions with your main being question-banned is forbidden.
user10984358
dont wanna promote having alts but that 3 aint doing any good
14:48
hehehehe
user10984358
start after 6 months, go for reddit get to know their community
@Hudlommen I think you should focus on rehabilitating your current account.
@AaronHall as i said that ship is sailed.
It's never too late. Make good use of your free questions every 6 months and it'll be over.
@Hudlommen I believe it hasn't, I looked at your account. You've had ok questions. just a few bad ones.
14:50
I wasted my last question on a webscrape project with PubMed and EMBASE in mind.
"Wasting" your question only happens when you ask a bad one. I strongly suggest reading Jon Skeet's guide I linked earlier.
@AaronHall when was the last bad one?
@Hudlommen try fixing up one of your deleted ones and make it better, maybe even self-answer.
@AndrasDeak do you think it is a bad question?
I didn't say that, I didn't even look at it.
I'm talking generalities.
10k link, plus I believe Hudlommen can view it: stackoverflow.com/questions/46095517/…
14:52
they should be able to
undeleting a dupe won't have any point
Looking at the title and the dupe target it's probably the correct dupe.
@AndrasDeak sure it will, it can't be upvoted if it's deleted.
@AndrasDeak please do, tell me what parts are not helping me out of my ban
I don't think questions closed as duplicate contribute to a question ban, do they?
they don't, no
but it's hard to get upvotes on dupes with score at -1 already
oh it was @Aran-Fey that closed it! :P
14:54
IDK, but I know deleted questions do
@AaronHall they don't
I'm pretty sure deleted questions contribute to a question ban.
85
A: Can self-censoring end up with a question ban?

Shog9Deleted posts are mostly irrelevant to the question ban. If someone tells you otherwise, tell them they're wrong; if you see a meta post that says otherwise, edit it. What matters are poorly-received posts. That is, questions that are downvoted, closed, or flagged as inappropriate in some way. ...

@Hudlommen it's a small world... and SO is even smaller :P
101
A: What can I do when getting "We are no longer accepting questions/answers from this account"?

ArjanWhy am I getting this message? As stated in the about links on every page, Stack Exchange is a network of question and answer sites, not help forums. This implies that all posts are expected to have some value for later visitors too. To enforce that, and to prevent help vampires making the answe...

14:55
@Aran-Fey look at my answer: This time i had really been looking for an answer first, i guess i was using the wrong keywords. Thanks for your help :) – Hudlommen Sep 7 '17 at 15:01
Additionally, deletion itself counts against questions if less than 30 days old when deleted if others have invested time into answering or moderating the question.
well, indirectly - I've had dupes that I did so well on they're getting more views and upvotes than the dupe targets.
All seem to suggest that deletion is only a problem if there are answers.
lol see this part: "An automatic filter is in place to ban questions and/or answers from IP addresses or accounts with a history of extremely poor posts." that is not very PC in these days :P
@Hudlommen tbh that's a pretty difficult problem to google. Can't blame you for not finding the answer yourself
14:57
it's not non-PC; it's inaccurate though because it needn't be "extremely" poor
@Hudlommen your newest question is at +1 score and it's fine
follow that pattern and you'll get out of the ban
@AndrasDeak but with a 6 month cool of each time it will take yeeeears.
it might, I guess...
but you're on the right track
To be honest i think i have asked some good question on Hudlommen and Hudlommen2. For the past long long time and it has gotten me nowhere
it probably won't make you feel any better but the company is trying to make changes that makes it harder for users to ask crap questions
oh, well fk
@AndrasDeak so with my +1 question, what has to happen for me to get unbanned?
more + votes or answers or?
15:02
Only the company knows, the details are intentionally secret.
The general rule is "contribute to the community". Upvoted questions, upvoted answers, things like that. Be a good citizen.
user10984358
@AndrasDeak if this is the case, will that not discourage new users from deciding what is crappy and what is not??
Right, ill go upvote some answers. I wont know if they are right or wrong, so down voting would be an ass move. So i guess ill just make people feel good about them self
user10984358
had I known there was a ban hammer nearing my head for every (crappy) question I asked I would never seek help
@TheNamesAlc yeah i feel the same. Things i asked years and years ago are still haunting me
user10984358
the die has been cast man, lets all just hope we dont see hudlommen3
15:05
@Hudlommen anyways, in summary, I - a mod - do want you to rehabilitate your account. I do think some reworking of questions you've already posted will work on your behalf more quickly than 6 months. Improve your questions. Fix formatting, add clarity, remove cruft. Improve others' questions, and build rep points. I'm concerned about your attitude towards improvement, but I'm trying to be patient. Know it's not helping you with the community though.
@Hudlommen ugh, you are completely missing my point
upvoted answers you wrote
But whatever, try to game the system as you see fit. Then see if you get out of your ban.
@AndrasDeak i was kidding..
I laughed very loudly
@TheNamesAlc I have no idea what you're asking
user10984358
you mentioned about SO making changes that would make it hard for users to ask crap questions, with that in mind, new users might hesitate to ask questions, how would a beginner know which is top tier and which is crap tier, he is a beginner after all
user10984358
at least thats how I feel when I ask questions, in chat the rate of response is higher imo, owing to the regulars, making it hard to ask questions would just bring in more people with not so good questions who seek a fast reply
15:18
@TheNamesAlc our professor, when we were taught about matlab, told us not to use this forum for questions, for the same reason.
@AaronHall i am not gonna sit and reformat questions from years ago. I am very aware of how i ask them now, that is what it is. Ill just have to make throwaway accounts. I know you care about the community and the state of SO, and that is good. But i simply refuse to sit and redo old posts, it is just digging holes and filling them again. Not working with me here, and letting my account be banned for years is not really helping anyone. The old posts are not getting fixed either way.
@AaronHall as you can see, my newer Hudlommen2 account was only banned because i made you aware of it. Not because of my "never" post writing skills.
15:35
@TheNamesAlc in your experience of the main feed, do you believe these changes have really translated into a reluctance for beginners to ask questions?
"Make harder to ask crap questions" does not automatically imply making it harder to ask questions from the people liable to doing it. The question template, for example, tries to improve questions without making any barrier
ABS on car brakes makes it harder to crash, for example
@TheNamesAlc I didn't say "punish" crap questions. I said "make it harder" to ask crap questions. Is this where your misunderstanding is coming from?
@roganjosh i asked my question in '16 when i got banned
note that we've been discussing your question ban for more than an hour, and I don't think there's anything more to be said
@AndrasDeak you are right, i did what i could for the old account. Its deaded :(
15:55
@AaronHall What is the thing about 500 edits until a person reaches 2K rep... what happens after that?
@Dodge no more rep gain - this prevents you from gaining over 1k rep purely from edits.
Nothing. No more rep for edits, unless posts edited earlier get deleted. Still needs review until 2k.
Oh wow... I've noticed a few users with major rep editing posts at high frequency and assumed they were rep hounds. But they have not been gaining rep at all for that.
indeed
Some people are actually invested in the site :)
15:58
It's a good site to be invested in.
It's true, some in close proximity
there's for instance Brian Tompsett whom you'll often see vigilante mass-editing things with little support
47K edits, they deservese some recognition. Welp, if they run for mod they'll have a nice body of work
^ that's super-human effort
@roganjosh How's the website? Up and running?
16:01
I'm much more appreciative of Peter Mortensen, who actually edits grammatical mistakes and whatnot. That's at least a noble cause.
@Dodge For mod candidates, I believe, most users care about your pitch and your score. The average user is not going to look at flag and edit counts.
@AaronHall It does display a sense of altruism which selfless mods need in droves
Being a mod or room owner is a good way to get bashed by noobs on a near-daily basis with little ROI
@Dodge it is indeed, thanks :) there's still a broken feature but I'm totally unsure about the approach to fix it (I think I risk exposing a backend server that I don't think should be available). I don't want to make a bad move so I'm having to do a lot of research before I procees
Hmm, I don't know what I did there to double-post with an edit. Sorry
@roganjosh glad to hear that, I saw a few screeb grabs and it looked quite nice
16:09
@Dodge Let's not talk about individual users. But if a user is making a lot of edits that the community disagrees with, that's not 100% altruism. And if we're looking at edits as a score, then that's a benefit to the user, which also definitively breaks altruism (which is helping someone else at no benefit to oneself.) Then, of course, philosophically, we're asking is there even such a thing as "altruism" itself - because if we can think of an example, we've ruled it out...
@Dodge www.jpilkington.com . Some parts of bootstrap are now wonky when I view on a phone, not just the plotly.js stuff. Oh well, I succeeded in getting a project to keep me busy and learn from :)
@roganjosh happens a lot from mobile
@AaronHall Ok sure, self preservation rules all human decision making at some level and there is no such thing as true altruism. You make a valid point, but if you see me making tens of thousands of edits just know that I'm doing it for the greater good and in a selfless way (even though a benefit to the "greater good" ultimately trickles back to me)
He's not saying there's no such thing as true altruism. He's saying there's no such thing as true altruism that others know about.
@AndrasDeak did you ip ban my account now?
16:16
Every hour I IP ban a random account. Didn't you know that?
@AndrasDeak but i was gonna make my AndrasDeak2 account be fantastic, with no mistakes and a killer name!
I appreciate the effort
I guess the account has to be used from uni
@AndrasDeak That's an interesting thought, not sure if I agree, I'll have to think about that one
Would be fun to get the uni ip banned.
16:17
@Hudlommen wouldn't be the first time. Ultimately other people at the university start looking for the reason and the culprit is typically not applauded.
@AndrasDeak haha what are they gonna do?
@Dodge I think his point was that third parties knowing about the act will ultimately give some kind of gratification for the user, so the purity of the altruism can be questioned
A truly anonymous donation to some charity might be altruistic. The moment you attach your name to the donation it's hardly altruistic.
@AndrasDeak yeah, and I get that, but unless this is contemplated by the person being altruistic at the time the altruistic act is committed then it is truly a selfless act and should count as altruistic.
and let's not discuss public announcements made on twitter :P
Haha, so true
16:20
if I do a good deed that helps someone else and nobody knows it was me so I can't get any direct or second order benefit from it - is that altruism? Maybe it improves the ecology of the system so I still indirectly benefit...
@Dodge the way I see it part of the "problem" (however academic) is that you can't truly know what people think and what motivates them
@AaronHall I'd think it's still altruism, even if down the line you benefit in a sufficiently indirect way
That's my take as well
but then are we redefining altruism?
Helping someone get a job might be altruistic, even though you're contributing to the increase of GDP and maybe one day said person might be in a position to offer you a job (not even knowing who you are or what you did)
@AaronHall joke's on you; I don't know the definition to begin with, and since it's a social construct I bet we can debate the definition to no end and no real outcome
I don't recall if it was in a game-theory class or some other kind of class, but we defined it as "no benefit". But while that definition might be good for logic-games, it's not practically useful, is it.
16:24
yup
perhaps we can make it more specific by "no benefit to the best of your knowledge at the time"
Your ending up benefitting from the act doesn't retroactively cancel altruism.
I like "no direct or second-order benefit".
And that fact that being charitable typically produces a positive sensation for the person doing the giving means that, yeah, there is probably always some form of atruism-breaking-return
@AaronHall or third or fourth or...so sum them up and call it "no benefit" :P
Direct benefit would be quid-pro-quo. Second order would be reputational.
Well, you can always strip away a lot of human factors by looking at the bear saving a drowning crow
16:27
Cleaning up a beach I don't use without telling anybody - altruism. Telling people I cleaned it up - second order benefit. Cleaning up a beach I use regularly - direct benefit.
@roganjosh Do we know it didn't intend to eat it, only to realize it's not edible?
Yes. I know. Because reasons :P
I see ;)
Things like dolphins saving humans in distress is probably altruistic. Then again dolphins are also known to sexually assault humans, so what do I know about their ethical considerations.
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask apologies if not, I'm trying to scrape a page but a lot of the source code is JavaScript when viewing the source? I don't know much about JS so I'm not sure what's going on but on chrome when I inspect element I have actual HTML nodes. Is there a way I can scrape the HTML codes and the content of them? ATM I'm getting just JS jiberish
What language is your scraper/parser written in?
16:30
well I'm using just a HTTP request in python atm and printing the raw html
except its not html its just jiberish JS
if it's python then you're in the right place
Yeah just not sure if the web related stuff falls under python
A lot of webpages have content that's generated dynamically using JS. When you open the browser the JS runs and the HTML gets generated, that's what you end up seeing. Making the initial request using python you'll get the initial JS first.
Someone said I have to wait for the dom to load, how exactly do I do this?
@notatroll web-related stuff with python does; web-related stuff without python don't. Scraping things with python is python-related.
@notatroll I can't personally give a certain answer but it's possible you have to use a browser-like tool such as selenium
I don't do any web stuff
16:32
Maybe something like cefpython could handle it bette rfor me?
Selenium ah okay
or anything else that lets you run the JS to get the same end result
from a quick googling cefpython has something to do with chrome, so it could also indeed be relevant
@notatroll I've never heard of cefpython before, but it sounds interesting, and I expect it could do what you need. But I suspect there's less of a learning curve to using a basic headless browser like Selenium. Plus there are a ton of Selenium questions on SO.
Basically, you need something that can load the Web page & run the JavaScript in it that's required to produce the data you're trying to scrape.
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