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16:00
should've written "machine" there
it's almost as though the terms "compiled", "transpiled", "binary", "machine code", etc. are so overloaded and muddled more context is needed when using these terms, and the distinctions they are used to make in discussions tend to be arbitrary with lines blurring more and more over time 🤔
@Aris94 They aren’t spinoffs, they’re other implementations of the same language. CPython is just the “reference implementation” of the language, not the language itself. That’s how the core devs think of it, and what the docs say. When debating new features, “How could PyPy implement this”
@abarnert Bytecode is not machine code.. It must be further compiled to run
may only be part of the second set of arguments rather than the first, but it’s alwsys part of it.
@Aris94 the docs actually in many place says "CPython implementation detail: this would happen, not guaranteed on other Python implementations"
16:01
does anyone know anything about django
?*
@AmagicalFishy no :D
@AmagicalFishy you have already asked that, no need to repeat
:l
i know, and no one answered
so i asked again
@Aris94 Bytecode is machine code for a virtual machine. And, unless you’re using a JIT, bytecode is generally interpreted, not compiled.
@KevinMGranger I think this is the perfect way to conclude this debate lol. Honestly when you get this specific, it's sort of up to interpretation (not compilation ;) )
16:02
Well we now have a compilation of points people have made
@KevinMGranger loool yes we do
@AmagicalFishy without details, I'd have gone for the solution that you rejected. Since you rejected it, then IDK.
When you’re looking for a definite answer for something that’s semantically vague across multiple axes, you can have fun going back and forth disproving both answers, because both answers are at least 40% wrong.
Anywho, onto less divisive topics
17 hours ago, by wim
yanny or laurel?!
DSM
DSM
Good grief. Laurel, of course. Disclaimer: I have an aunt named Laurel and several friends called Laura, so I might have been primed.
16:04
Arrow really should have called their replacement Black Canary “Yanny”. Think of all the free advertising they’d be getting right now.
@abarnert We are are right in certain context and wrong in others. I still would not consider original python as a compiled language. But CPython and Jython and whatever else may very well be compiled. Context is key.
@AnttiHaapala ah, alright. i might just hack that together in that case. sorry for bothering—i've just asked a few totally unanswered questions and chat was my last resort :l
DSM
DSM
@Aris94: not to continue the conversation, but CPython probably is the "original python" you know.
@DSM lol that is a topic I am not confident to debate. I just know my good ol' Python2/3
what's python 2?
DSM
DSM
16:07
That's.. ... yeah, so Laurel. Definitely Laurel.
@DSM Maybe Guido had a complete enough model in his head before writing 0.1 that he could interpret it, in which case that model in his head is really the original implementation. :)
DSM
DSM
Aug 5 '14 at 14:05, by Kevin
I use Python 0. I mail my code to Guido and he interprets it in his head.
16:07
Don't you find it odd that the Python version numbering starts from 3.0 ... to me it seems very illogical ... where are Pythons 1 and 2?!
DSM
DSM
@AnttiHaapala: ;-)
@AnttiHaapala to be fair, Fallout started at 3
@wim technically it's an answer that says "yes" :D
wim
wim
This OP is kinda sounding angry
lol i dont get it. People dislike Python 2?
Is this like the emacs vs vim thing?
16:08
Ahha now I know: Terminator 1, Terminator 2, Python 3.
makes sense
tabs vs spaces?
@AnttiHaapala There is no Python 3.0. It goes from 2.7 to 3.3.
@wim I'm sure they are smiling which you just can't see
DSM
DSM
Maybe Python stole 3 from Valve. This might explain a few things. :thinking_face:
@KevinMGranger I can't tell if that's irony or not...
16:10
Why do people prefer Python 3 over Python 2? I honestly barely know the difference besides some syntax.
Why would it be ironic? it's just like how final fantasy started at 7
Important events in world history: William becomes King of England, Free Netherlands beat Napoleon, Python 3.3 released.
5
I heard Python 3 is better for Django so I use it. But I haven't noticed a difference.
jpp
jpp
3 > 2, bigger is better.
@Aris94 Try writing a server that handles 10000 connections via coroutines without await, or even yield from.
16:11
@jpp Oh shoot you're right
Talk to your kids about python 2. If you don't, who will? looks worriedly at Antti
haha, ok, it's like that. just checking.
Also, if you’ve ever used any non-English text… you’d still be debugging your Python 2 code, so you wouldn’t be here to chat about it.
@abarnert Python2 doesn't have a way to handle race conditions?
@Aris94 one word: UnicodeDecodeError
16:12
Python 2 isn't turing complete
(final fantasy VIII all the way)
@Aris94 which one is greater 3 or '4'?
>>> 3 > '4'
False
@AnttiHaapala lol why
It’s not about race conditions. Python 2 doesn’t have a nice way to trade off work between coroutines. You can do it by a slow trampoline, or with dozens of C extension types that you monkeypatch all over builtins and stdlib and then cross your fingers that you never call anything directly or indirectly that you forgot to patch.
>>> '3' > 4
True
@Aris94 ^that's Python 2.
16:14
You can't code for the web in Python 2
@abarnert I didn't really understand that. What do you mean by work between coroutines? Does this have to do with multithreading?
@AnttiHaapala Is this important? I don't see the big deal
You might like javascript, then
I think I see what's going on here 🤔
It’s what you do instead of mulithreading, so you can have 10000 concurrent tasks instead of 200, and you can control how they interact without putting locks all over the place.
16:17
> "foo" == TRUE, and "foo" == 0… but, of course, TRUE != 0
@KevinMGranger No I'm fine with either Python. Certain differences are just not worth complaining about lol
There's one really, really good answer to the question of which one is "better" without looking at details: one will be supported past January 1st, 2020, and one won't. The one that will be supported is Python 3.
@RobertGrant "foo" == 0?
Python 2 sucks. Until I have to use JS or Go or Ruby, and I wish I could get back to Python 2. It’s our variant of “first world problems”.
16:19
@abarnert Ah see I don't have much experience in the concurrency space. Maybe I'll notice the advantages later on.
@Aris94 repeating something with a question mark isn't that useful a question
@RobertGrant hmm I think the average human can understand. I forgot some people here are actually robots.
In what situation would "foo" == 2 be True
Some are trolls
@vaultah I agree
I understand you can have certain reasons to prefer one language over another. But it doesn't mean you have to go full fanboy and literally bash every single difference lol.
Some programmers get too emotionally attached to their preferred tools.
It's important to retain some of your human qualities after entering the space.
It helps with interviews too.
@Aris94 are you seriously insulting me and then asking me a question?
16:23
@RobertGrant I was clarifying my question that I after before your insult.
But I'm not expecting you to answer anymore lol
And I don't mind.
@Aris94 see the people whose names are in italics?
@Aris94 we don't often have trolls here though, you just came here on a bad day. Just an unfortunate coincidence
@vaultah Would you agree that I'm not the troll though? I was just asking questions about differences in languages, and then I get attacked..
@Aris94 I can use, and even appreciate, Python 2, Swift, F#, Smalltalk, and many other languages while pointing out their flaws. But when it comes to a few, like Java, it is a moral imperative to go all fanboy and bash every single difference.
The big danger is C++. It’s such a huge language that it would take a lifetime to learn all of its flaws well enough to bash them. :)
@AnttiHaapala Yes I assume they are admins.
@abarnert haha is Java really that bad?
I haven't used it much outside of college
16:28
Java 8 isn't that bad, if you can write the code from scratch and not follow some idiotic guidelines.
@Aris94 I'm pretty sure the correct answer to "your question is unclear" isn't an insult followed by clarifying the question, it's an optional apology followed by clarifying the question
Every language is bad, just in different ways
I'd never ever want to use java 7, 5, or 1.4 for anything any more.
@Aris94 Of course I’m being hyperbolic. Since Java has started stealing all the ideas that C# built on top of what it stole from Java (and building them more rigorously) it’s become a pretty good language; it’s really only the mass of legacy Java code, and the culture and tools that support it, that make it still suck.
wim
wim
@Arne From reading the landing page, it looks like only incremental improvements over stdlib logging. I would recommend going directly to structlog.
16:29
^+1
@RobertGrant I guess I misinterpreted your tone. Any way, I didn't mean for the insult to cut deep. I call all my computer friends robots.
@AnttiHaapala I haven't tried Java 8 yet, is it new?
well, what 3-4 years?
Java as an extension language for other JVM languages is a whole lot nicer than C as an extension language for Python. If only one of those JVM languages were Python 3 instead of 2.7 (or a version of Scala that went back to pre-1.0 and tried again).
@abarnert well Jython 3 wouldn't be too hard
I actually did some porting in my branch but never finalized and PR'd it
I did the bytes datatype
and turned all __future__s on
@AnttiHaapala Ah ok so around the same time as Swift? Feels new for me haha
It's hard to start a new project in anything other than Python for me though. I've been hooked for a while.
wim
wim
16:45
@AnttiHaapala Are those fidget spinners?
@Aris94 Hopefully that holds up for you as well as it has for me since around the 1.6/2.0 days. :) There are things where Python isn’t the right language (or just where “How could I tackle this with type-driven programming” is how I figure out what the problem is in the first place), but most projects, I do in Python.
@abarnert Yea I haven't had enough experience to find a situation Python couldn't have been utilized in.
@Aris94 boot loader...
wim
wim
@Aris94 If you are caught trolling in the chat 3 times then stack exchange changes your username into italics to warn other users. So be careful of those guys.
11
MicroPython tho
16:52
@wim Seriously? I thought they were admins or something lol
What is considered trolling though?
telling newbies tall tales about names set in italics
I feel like disagreement can be miscategorized as trolling
Hiding under a bridge and demanding tolls from those who wish to cross
wim
wim
And all the guys with mathematical patterns for avatar are bots because only humans are allowed to set a profile pic
@Aris94 I disagree, and therefore you’re a troll. :)
16:55
lol ok now I know i'm being trolled
You should all be promoted to admin
wim
wim
Except for Martijn, he an AI too but he was advanced enough to solve the CAPTCHA
Someone convinced me I was a bot in this very chat room a few years ago. Was that you, @wim ?
user image
18
Squeeeeee! I finally actually have a Wee Ninja!
^^ nice selfie
DSM
DSM
16:57
Awww.
you'll never be able to find it
@AndrasDeak I tagged it with a radioactive nanoparticle. It'll not elude me. I think.
I don't get it, I just see some plants and some stones? What's this a picture of?
It looks a bit like a fluffy shuriken :D
@KevinMGranger it's a picture of hunter2
16:59
saw one of your cousins in Stockholm, these
wim
wim
@abarnert No? It might have been that guy Alan
I think the ninja is that purple thing in front that looks like some kind of flower?
@AnttiHaapala my wee ninja just went: sure, that's my cousin.
wim
wim
yellow belt is the rookie one
My Lyft driver has just made a complete circle around my neighborhood going up 101, down 280, and back up 101 and past the exit to my house.
17:42
WOW
cbg. btw
Wait, where are the eye holes on the mascot's costum. Either that guy can't see, your cousins a midget, or the person in costum is really tall.
The mouth hole looks semipermeable. If he's looking out of that and not the eyes, he'd only have to be ~5 inches taller than the guy on the left.
That was what I was thinking, his FOV must be really bad though.
One of my friends sent this as a PoC.
I wonder how much it pays...
> i think the idea of continuation in web development predating REST was pretty cool. In REST every time a request comes in, the handler runs from the begining. the context is lost and we have to either rely on storing session state in cookies, client side or server side. it also limits the kind of state you can possibly store
17:56
@thefourtheye a bit too long
*cough* pastebin *cough*
Sorry about that :(
Oh, apparently pastebin works in India now.
I'm moving that previous message to Knives, because rules
Sure. I was just over excited.
18:13
thefourtheye be like, frick da rulez
@MartijnPieters oh nice is that a garden gnome?
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ even better...a garden NINJA!
wim
wim
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ I'm beginning to think you might be onto something with that "downvotes causes upvotes" logic
I downvoted this because it's garbage, and then shortly afterward someone upvoted it. And nobody upvoted the better answers, of which there are several.
@wim Yes, it's a pattern I've noticed a couple of times, especially with them. I'd venture a guess it's a little more than mere coincidence...
18:28
@wim this is gamification after all. Working the psychological angle can work. I suspect those of us who are here often look at answers and assign some measure of merit to it. If the vote tally differs from our perceived merit, we may be incented to rectify that imbalance.
you might think invisible framework coding ninjas is the only conglomerate here, but think again
I've been guilty of that exact behavior on several occasions. I see an answer that I wouldn't have otherwise voted for. But I definitely think it's not worth downvoting. If I see it at a -1, I'll bump it back up.
I particularly like the last sentence, because it would explain the compensatory upvotes on the downvotes
by the way, I received that email last year, so goodness knows what's happened since then
One time recently I found an answer with a score of 1337 and couldn't bring myself to upvote it even though it helped me solve a problem.
@Code-Apprentice that's funny. Some saboteur here, messed up my 123456 rep earlier with a question upvote (-: oh well ''.join(map(str, fib[3:7])) is next up. (that's 235813)
18:40
I had a very nice 41414 recently
@piRSquared your rep does not stop being a somewhat remarkable number today, is it on purpose?
@piRSquared 123546...that's interesting
Especially since it was 123456 last time I looked
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ first rule of weird group formation: don't talk about weird group formation
Is it a finite simple group?
18:51
(of order 2)
wim
wim
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ meetup daily and do battle in coding? isn't that basically what answering on stackoverflow is anyway?
11
I prefer to think of stack overflow as collaborative filtering... collaboratively filtering out the garbage by downvoting and voting to close :|
@AndrasDeak it's weird, I'll give you that
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ You missed out on the chance to spend a year talking about blockchain! Think of all the great conversations you could have had. "Isn't blockchain amazing?" "No, it's not just amazing, it changes everything!" "No, it changes more than just everything, it changes everything else too!"
yes, because discussing something I have zero interest in is totally something I'd love to do :D
19:08
https://github.com/joncatanio/cannoli
Cannoli is a compiler for a subset of Python 3.6.5 and is designed to evaluate the language features of Python that negatively impact performance. Cannoli is written in Rust and also compiles Python to Rust.
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ Collaborative filtering where I try to win!
I think people closed that question way to fast. The user might have been penalized for their english knowledge... I mean shouldn't comments and edit be made to attempt to improve before closing?
oh... open vote
19:21
cabbage
TIL and statements aren't evaluated after the first value returns False eg I expected `False and 3 and type('chieckn', 3) to return an error, but it did not.
@piRSquared how do you add tags like that in chat so I know next time
[tag:ov-pls]
DSM
DSM
Tradition says we use reopen-pls, but ov-pls works just as well, I guess. :-)
@Aran-Fey what do you have against my one-liner except that it's super hard to read? :p
19:26
A-ha! I knew that Q was a dupe of something
@Aran-Fey Oh well ok, I removed it
@OlivierMelançon That's my only complaint :p
really, two answers, neither one linear time?
@user2357112 working on it, ok?
Okay, should I hammer it as a dupe of this or nah? Neither one has particularly great answers (except mine, of course)
19:29
@user2357112 bah! Why you gotta call me out? Back to it then.
If you guys are gonna change your answers anyway, mind if I hammer the Q and you post them on the dupe?
No, I don't mind
There I added a solution in linear time
Wow thanks for closing it
I was going to post this:
        from heapq import heappush
        from collections import defaultdict

        d = defaultdict(list)
        for i, j in zip(scooby, snacks):
            heappush(d[i], -j)  # need to reverse the sign of j since heapq supports minheaps only

        print({k : -v[0] for k, v in d.items()})
        {1: 18, 4: 28}
though I still doubt this is linear, you'd need every element at once to build a heap in linear time. This is likely O NlogN at best.
An improvement would be to build the lists, heapify in one go, and then pop the top per heap
protip: replace the minheap with a call to the min function
19:35
if you call that per key, won't that become quadratic?
oh wait I'm doing that anyway. Hmm....
okay, maybe heaps are overkill here
another would be to keep a running min. That would really be linear.
Ok, now we need a one-liner that is linear
@OlivierMelançon don't become an ajax please... one liners are overrated
Python isn't huge on one-liners - the emphasis tends to go on readability and comprehensibility
But but... they are fun :'(
For some definition of "fun," perhaps. But I discourage my staff from writing anything that I can't understand :-)
19:39
@holdenweb you wizard staff writes code?
No. Staff writes code and I stop them from going mad.
(i.e. doing silly things).
Amazing how smart people can do dumb things sometimes if you don't watch them.
No one-liner, but I could write the linear solution without more line than the non-linear one
@Aran-Fey want to step in? It looks like you closed their previous Q
@piRSquared You did it!!!
I can't read it though
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ *shrug* The other question was about threads, not processes. If they have a complaint about the closure, they should've posted a comment on the question. The ball's in their court.
19:49
@OlivierMelançon oh, it's crappy/hacky and I'd get yelled at by @holdenweb for sure.
I won't tell
I used a mutable default, mutated inside a comprehension, and returned (None, other)
I'll upvote once I figure it out
Or downvote if you throw up
typo stackoverflow.com/questions/50398636 (see OP's last comment; just put the degrees-to-radians in the wrong place)
19:55
@piRSquared super ugly, I love it
I would throw up if that was in any project I am actually working on
It's good to have a tangible thing as a reference on what to avoid.
Shouldn't Python force us to respect some semblance of indentation within [], (), or {}?
This is valid and I think it shouldn't be...
[
       (
k,
           max(v))
for k, v in
    (               lambda d,
x
=
defaultdict(list): ([x[k].append(v) for k, v in d], x))
    (zip(scooby, snacks))[1].items()
]
The thing is you can have a linebreak anywhere in a list comprehension, so enforcing indentation is a bit complex for what it gives
It's easier for the parser to just consume white spaces
Also, the goal of indentation is to mark code blocks, something there is not in a list comprehension sin there are no statements
I guess it falls under the assumption that we are all adults
I suspect one of Guido's original goals was that the best way to deal with formatting giant expressions is to discourage people from making giant expressions, except in very trivial cases (like a list display with one element per line). Which is more about making alternatives easy to write, not just making expressions limited. But either way. the answer can usually just be "there is no right way to format that, rewrite it".
Comprehensions definitely break that, because a rule that "any comprehension that takes two lines should be rejected by your style checker" is too overzealous—but it's not that overzealous.
20:07
hi
@wim Thanks for checking that lib out. On closer inspection, the author of the package was also the creator of the page that advertised it.. so yeah, I might have been a little fast in jumping on that ship =/
I just run all code through black. If the resulting indentation isn't what I wanted, then I have to refactor the expression, because there is no way to override its formatting rules.
ahh that's what I was looking for black I just heard of that but forgot to check it out
rbrb
cabbage
20:15
@piRSquared What about that one:
list([d.update({x: max(d[x], y) if x in d else y}) or d for x, y, d in zip(scooby, snacks, [{}] * len(scooby))][0].items())
meta's been a dumpster fire of late
Oh boy, thanks for reminding me. I wanted to write a meta question a week ago and never got around to it
20:45
(is a small ninja in the flowerbed a garden gninja? possibly a gnignja? That looks like something that just got legalized.)
21:04
Gazizza, my dilsnoofuses and gninjas, it's Bill McNeal saying, get with the crezappy taste of Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor... Rocket Fuel's got tha upstate prison flavor that keeps you ugly all night long. So when you wanna get sick remember, nothing makes yo' feet stank like Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor... DAMN! It's crezappy!!!
@abarnert I limit the item expressions to a single line - fors and ifs can go on separate lines.
@holdenweb I do basically the same thing—the expression, and every clause, each has to fit on line. But if the total ends up more than 2 lines or one of them gets dangerously close to the right edge, black will break it up like this:
res = [
    complicated_expression(long_variable_name)
    for long_variable_name in stuff
    if complicated_filter_expression(long_variable_name)
]
If that 5 lines instead of 3 looks like "too much space", then I probably have to factor something out.
21:20
rbrb for home
21:43
please have a look at that oneliner
I'd be happier if black defaulted to ' instead of " for strings
wim
wim
I've been meaning to check out black. Will run it through some of my codebases at WimCorp tomorrow.
21:58
@abarnert thought this would be right up your alley; do you know if open() runs special syscalls aside from a file descriptor open?
This is an early version that eats up more CPU than it should, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway: Runnable in-browser python snippets for both SO and chat!
There's some people playing with LD_PRELOAD tricks in here and they're remapping syscalls to get file descriptors. It doesn't work with open(), which leads me to think there's some fundamental difference.
os.open(...) returns a file descriptor which works fine, in contrast.
wim
wim
wow, just got thanked for closing a guys question
finally a user that gets it
@Aran-Fey stopped reading at skulpt
'cause it runs python 2?
wim
wim
yes
and it royally screws up text/bytes things in python
22:06
python 2 is better than no python ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
wim
wim
there are other options out there since skulpt, you should consider them
Could you name some? I honestly couldn't keep track of which ones are outdated, not developed, pre-compilers, or unsuited for other reasons
skulpt has like 0 documentation, so if there's a better alternative I'm all ears
wim
wim
One solution is compiling Python directly to wasm. Bypassing javascript entirely. The only problem is that doesn't exist yet ;)
wim
wim
It was hinted at in PyCon this year, could be exciting times ahead for Python in the browser if it materializes
22:12
mayday mayday:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50383210/python-requests-how-to-post-few-stages-forms
If something's gonna replace JS, it should be a language that's designed for the web. Python would be a poor replacement
elm is designed for the web explicitly
Python would be just as good as js, if not better, I think
wim
wim
transcrypt is targetting Python3.6
brython is also 3 IIRC
and there's PyPy.js
@KevinMGranger Don't get me wrong; python would be an upgrade compared to JS. But it would leave a lot to be desired.
wim
wim
@Aran-Fey It's not necessarily about replacing js. It's about getting Python onto the web without needing to do it through a javascript runtime
Which is lipstick on a pig
22:16
@Belloz what about it?
wim
wim
no offense to our swinely friends
@OneRaynyDay open can call other things, but it depends a whole lot on Python 2 vs. Python 3, and what args you pass it. For example, 2.x usually uses C's stdio, which does whatever it does under the covers; 3.x, depending on what kind of buffering you ask for, may check whether the file is a TTY, or fstat the file or fsstat its filesystem to get its blocksize to pick a good buffer, etc.
@wim You can use existing emscripten 1 builds of CPython itself, or of LLVM IR running the bytecode CPython was compiled to, and then when emscripten 2 with its wasm output is done, you shouldn't have to change anything. (Unless you want all the spiffy new features, of course.)
@KevinMGranger JS's entire standard library is built around the DOM event model, DOM/CSSDOM for a GUI, browser callbacks for I/O, etc. Python's isn't. You could wedge the event model itself into driving an asyncio loop, but what good would that do without asyncio socks, local files, a Pythonesque GUI framework that can run inside that event loop, …?
Yes, additional work would be necessary.
wim
wim
22:32
@abarnert interesting.
any (good) reason why @mention doesn't change when a username gets changed?
see nonsensical orphaned @username everywhere on old content now :(
because @use will ping both "username" and "uselessname", so which one should that ping follow?
99% of pings only hit a single person tho
I think the future is the opposite. Most of the work to expose the browser environment nicely through wasm, instead of making it use JS shims, is useless. Nobody wants to manipulate divs from C code; you just want to get a GL surface and draw to it.
@Aran-Fey unless you're Kevin
22:36
Kevins shouldn't be allowed to change their usernames. Problem solved :)
Coldspeed solves that problem. Instead of accidentally pinging two people, you ping zero people.
3
What if we just legally recognize that all Kevins are actually the same person?
wim
wim
@AndrasDeak not talking about chat
@abarnert Strangely, using py2, and running strace -e trace=open, I can't even remotely find an open('my_file_name', O_RDONLY) call
wim
wim
talking about main / stack exchange
C's stdio should normally have an open() call in the strace dump.
22:43
In that case, I've seen plenty of comments on main refer to a person's reply by name without tagging them
In which case it would be useful to keep the context
Wait, does their username change on their comments?
wim
wim
their username changes on their comments, yes
Then it's even more confusing
wim
wim
but they still have their old username on other people's @mentions
it's such an obvious thing to get right (the mention should have a link to the userid, not just inject the current username text) that there is probably a good reason they didn't do it the 'right' way.
@wim ah, the one-ping-per-comment thing, interesting
wim
wim
@AndrasDeak ... no
22:46
no what?
wim
wim
think you're still misunderstanding what I'm asking about
I don't think so. You want pings in comments on main to change with the name of the addressee.
To which I objected that it wouldn't be ambiguous in chat, which you clarified. And on main there's a "nice" feature that you can only ping one person per comment, which gets rid of this complication and would make your requested feature technically feasible.
that's my understanding ^
@OneRaynyDay Most calls to open on 2.x ultimately call open_the_file. You can trace it from there for your platform, or work back to how that gets called for your open call, because without knowing either one of those I can't give you any more details. But I think it's probably going to be <whatever fopen does>, possibly followed by fstat.
@wim When you reference a message by ID, and it visibly turns into a @ for the user who owns that message and pings that user, does it actually get stored as just an @ to that user, or as a reference to the message?
in chat, by message
the message history keeps its ID form
How can I add /dev/random into tarfile in python?
22:53
cbg
@Thiner Can you even do that without python?
It seems like on main it should similarly store a reference to the comment, but I don't think it does.
/dev/random is a character device, not a regular file. It's technically infinite in size. So the first step is to get a computer with inifnite ram and disk space
@abarnert there's no directed reply in comments on main
tar can store special device file, right?
22:54
Unless you're talking about encoding a device file into tar and storing the major/minor
Oh you legitimately are, I love it. Now I'm curious too
Yeah I mean I don't know where to insert the major/minor
@KevinMGranger Why would you need infinite RAM? Surely tarfile reads a buffer at a time. So as long as you have infinite disk space and infinite time, that's all you need. :)
I cannot find major/minor in TarInfo....
Maybe I missed it?
I don't see it either. Good point
Uh, what's the point of "storing" /dev/random in a tar file?
22:56
To create a root file system in tar?
When I dir a TarInfo is has attributes named devmajor and devminor. They just don't show up in the docs.
@Aran-Fey asks the guy whose instinctive response to any problem is writing a userscript
"Why did you want to climb Mount Everest?"
"Because it's there"
"Why did you want to store /dev/random in a tarfile?"
"Because it's there"
@abarnert You saved my life! I believe that is the answer, and I will try out!
Well, that's a documentation issue to file right there
22:59
what? why? how?

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