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18:00
My deep learning model turned this up.
@Ffisegydd Ah. I didn't get your point at first, got it now
@davidism RIGHT NOW, I am interested in learning, since I have no chance of winning.
@SebastianNielsen Then learn pandas and scikit-learn to start with.
Well that is easier said than done.
I already know some of both of them
It's easier than deep learning.
18:00
you only need shallow learning for those
I know how to implement some KNN with scikit-learn
"already know some of both of them" sounds like you're already on the way to shallow knowledge ;)
@andras I guess
@WayneWerner Thanks Wayne!
DSM
DSM
18:02
"A little learning is not a dangerous thing to one who does not mistake it for a great deal."
@ZackTarr Let me know if it helped downgrading python by the way.
@DSM I dig the heck out of that.
This week my philosophy is "better to learn the wrong thing than to learn nothing", so feel free to ignore our opinions if the alternative is giving up in frustration
(ninjad by davidism)
18:06
... but do prepare to brace for the "I told you so"s if you come back in a week saying "man I should have started with scikit-learn before diving into deep learning, that would have been a more efficient path"
@Kevin what if you learnt what Andras looks like naked? Is that better than not learning anything?
8
wait what?
wat
is anyone proficient in NLP here?
18:06
Lowering the tone, one post at a time.
That is forbidden knowledge, and is why I keep emergency memory blackout tequila in my lower drawer
@Prateek yes.
Aren't we all proficient in NLP? You know, as humans?
@Kevin I chuckled
because I happened to have tequila in my lower drawer as well
18:08
@Ffisegydd cool. I wanna learn more in that. irrespective of Python.I mean its a challenging field to nail down into something particular model
never thought of it for serving that purpose
@Aran-Fey I mean . NLP in terms of technology,coding , techniques etc
That's a shame. I felt like an expert for a minute.
Insert electrodes into the brain as forcibly as possible. @Prateek
@OneRaynyDay didnt get what you mean?
@Aran-Fey I know you are being sarcastic. LOL
18:10
Jun 5 '16 at 20:44, by davidism
When we interact with people every day, we work with neural networks. This is why programmers still need to research neural networks.
Jun 29 '17 at 21:25, by davidism
If only there was a neural net, all problems would be solved.
Humans are proficient in NLP, but they are not proficient in telling a computer how to do NLP. Someone should write a computer that understands natural language so we can explain to it in natural language how to parse natural language
@Prateek was talking to fizzygood
@Kevin yeah. i agree
@Prateek you didn't actually ask a question, btw. Just you did ask if anyone knew NLP, so I assumed you had a question.
but there are some exceptions like these super robots Sofia , Einsten(not sure of name)
someone turn down the sarcasm knob so I'm not cringing please
The more data we have, the better deep learning is
@SebastianNielsen yes sir..its same in a course
@SebastianNielsen look at all that performance. It's at least 11!
@SebastianNielsen nice graph from imgur with no scale, definitely a citable reference.
18:12
xD
Cite: "Why deep learning: When the amounth of data is increased, machine learning techniques are insufficient in terms of performance and deep learning gives better performance like accuracy."
I wager 23 quatloos that the author of that graph has a financial incentive to make deep learning sound good
@AndrasDeak Way higher than that. Id say its over 9000 if I had to guess ;)
The precise ammount of how big the performance gap is, is not the point.
@Ffisegydd Oh yeah.. I am looking for some pointers to expand knowledge in that field..Hopefully build models, neural networks in future
18:14
my grad class professor kicks people out of his ML class whenever someone mentions the word neural networks when he's not teaching that particular section
@Prateek How much do you about it atm?
There is absolutely no way you are at a point where you've crossed from the red line to the blue line.
now i know why
I'm sure it would be quite easy to make a real graph relating performance to dataset size.
18:14
@davidism from the same source: cite: "What is amounth of big: It is hard to answer but intuitively 1 million sample is enough to say "big amounth of data""
Yeah don't get me started. I have to interview for data science positions, you can tell a hack if they come in squealing about deep learning.
So if the sample set is about 1 mil. or more, deep learning is most likely the best choice.
1 min ago, by davidism
There is absolutely no way you are at a point where you've crossed from the red line to the blue line.
Automatically suspicious of any presentation that can't spell "amount" right
18:15
@SebastianNielsen I would say basics..by nltk , and some algos i studies in school
Well lord behold machine learning is the way to go!
:)
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; A bunch of users flailing around trying to justify deep learning is no longer interesting.
Can I still talk during this?
I can!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Welcome to RO-only chat. Today's topic: should we get a secret handshake?
4
The dark council denies the existence of both the secret handshake and the dark council.
11
18:18
Over a chat room @Kevin?
hi-LARIOUS!
@SebastianNielsen yes..I have some knowledge. If you are proficient do you recommend any books/blogs ?
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; So stop talking about machine learning.
I don't know what at all gave you the impression that they're a good person to ask for resources on that.
Or why you thought it was worth continuing after the first time out.
Here's an idea: use the right tool for the job. But really, stop trying to justify it, it's lost its comedic edge.
@davidism you are misusing your power just a little bit..
No, I'm not.
Move on.
18:21
just a tiny little bit....
im ded
ok back to lurking, thanks for the comedy
Yeah that was amusing, but let's move on.
Laurel
Sprouts
what is happening
Moving on
18:22
Okay all, update on my py->exe task. I have installed py 3.5 and the needed libraries into the 3.5 version. I was unsure how to force pyinstaller to sue the 3.5 version over the 3.6, I tried the command "py -3.5 pyinstaller main.py" it didnt work. I then tried py2exe as Ive gotten it to work before and have experience in it. But I got this error.
I was trying to search for "machine cat" to post a picture, but I just got construction equipment. :-(
Where are the bionic cats when I need them?
> Feline Bravery
@ZackTarr Assuming pyinstaller is a module, shouldn't that be py -3.5 -m pyinstaller main.py?
And that's assuming you installed it in your Python 3.5 virtualenv.
You are using a virtualenv, right? That was rhetorical, the only correct answer is "of course."
18:25
I seem to remember that the Bionic Cat died during the prototyping process, but the Bionic Dog survived six years before the Bionic Man, and the Bionic Woman later rescued him from a lab and took him as a pet/sidekick.
I am not no @davidism and Let me try that Kevin
Perhaps he's like me and he just has a python35 directory and a python36 directory
Yeah Windows will work with that
Using the py command
Unless you're suggesting that the Six Million Dollar Man franchise is not real life.
Thats what Ive got yes. And no the -m didnt help.
:(
18:26
@ZackTarr I see. So what, specifically, is the error message?
The bionic cat probably died because of a missing semicolon.
XD
For py2exe or pyinstaller?
Pyinstaller.
C:\Users\ztarr\Desktop\Exe Test - Copy>py -3.5 -m pyinstaller main.py
C:\Python35-32\python.exe: No module named pyinstaller
Bah, I wanted to make a reference to Futurama's "Try this, kids at home!" scene, juxtaposed against my own poor environment setup, but I could only find a blurry camrip
18:27
Did you use pip3.5 to install it?
Yep I used py -3.5 -m pip install pyinstaller
Hmm, now that's curious.
You should try `py -3.5 -c "import pyinstaller" or some such
Basically try to import it.
    C:\Users\ztarr\Desktop\Exe Test - Copy>py -3.5 -c "import pyinstaller"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named 'pyinstaller'
18:29
When you did py -3.5 -m pip install pyinstaller, did you see any messages out of the ordinary that might indicate that there was a problem?
That's the Bionic Dog. My memory was actually correct for once. Also, he wasn't nearly as much a 70s fashion victim as the Bionic Man and Woman.
(you might be thinking "that's a silly question, I would have mentioned that already if that was the case", but it's good to nail down these assumptions instead of just leaving them as assumptions)
Should be all of its output
Ive got to go to a quick meeting with the lead. Ill be back in like 20 to continue. Sorry!
Ok, no angry red error messages there, that's good...
Since I conveniently have a very similar setup, let's see what it does on my machine.
wim
wim
could someone remind me what are the roomba rules
Can't beat vaultah at finding links.
wim
wim
@vaultah thx
I didn't see the 2x (removed)
could someone remind me of a googlewhack
-glares at vaultah-
wim
wim
it's the "has no answers" part I was interested in
shame it's not "has no answers with score >= 0"
Interesting, my attempt to import pyinstaller fails in a manner similar to Zack's: pastebin.com/2XcadRCx
Maybe the package has a different name than the module
18:39
From looking at docs, it looks like it's used as an executable
I also can't use their method on a fresh 3.5 install
However I can find pyinstaller on my PATH
Browsing through help("modules"), I don't see anything under P or I that looks like it might be related to pyinstaller. This is in line with your observations
wim
wim
Did I mention my app johnnydep already?
$ johnnydep pyinstaller --fields name import_names
name                    import_names
----------------------  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pyinstaller             PyInstaller
├── dis3                dis3
├── macholib>=1.8       macholib
│   └── altgraph>=0.15  altgraph
├── pefile>=2017.8.1    ordlookup, pefile, peutils
│   └── future          builtins, copyreg, future, html, http, libfuturize, libpasteurize, past, queue, reprlib, socketserver, tkinter, winreg, xmlrpc
So what should Zack do? [insert absolute path of python 3.5 directory here]/scripts/pyinstaller.exe main.py?
@ZackTarr when you come back from your meeting, try that
wim
wim
sorry, more concise:
$ johnnydep pyinstaller --fields name import_names --output-format json --no-deps
[
  {
    "name": "pyinstaller",
    "import_names": [
      "PyInstaller"
    ]
  }
]
C:\Users\Kevin>py -3.5 -c "import PyInstaller"

C:\Users\Kevin>
I am surprised that PyInstaller exists, but isn't listed in help("modules")
18:45
P might not sort with p
wim
wim
^
IPython             chainload           msilib              sunau
PIL                 chunk               msvcrt              symbol
PyInstaller         click               multiprocessing     sympyprinting
__future__          cmath               netbios             symtable
_ast                cmd                 netrc               sys
_bisect             code                nntplib             sysconfig
_bootlocale         codecs              nt                  tabnanny
Oh, right you are.
In that case, @ZackTarr might also like to try py -3.5 -m PyInstaller main.py
wim
wim
LOL, you have a tabnanny
I have no idea what that is.
It's a builtin
wim
wim
so it is
Oh, neat. That might actually be useful on the main site when you suspect the OP has tab-space-intermingling problems.
wim
wim
yeah, hit 'em with the tabnanny
"Do me a favor and run python -m tabnanny yourscript.py and see if it yells at you"
I think I once used it on a minion during a PR
18:53
Not that you can trust OP to run anything. "Yeah I ran it and it told me I was a perfect and special boy. Please fix my problem"
Back, catching up now
@Kevin Results from that were also unsuccessful. I think its an issue with my spec file though.
recbg
trying to exploit the drupal vuln
I just don't want to infect my machine with php
Well, it's better than "couldn't find pyinstaller" I guess
Yeah baby steps haha. Im now to the same point I was at with 3.6 I believe.
19:08
Oh, that's not fun.
Yeah just confirmed that it is the same error.
Well the good news is this probably means you can dispense with the 3.5 stuff and go back to just doing pyinstaller main.py since it fails either way.
Having disliked f-strings for ages, I now like them
(And cbg)
Anyone that's ever been chewed out for using eval would think twice about putting an expression inside a string. And yet, now it's the hot new tech
wim
wim
but you can't exploit that vuln with f-strings (can you...?)
19:23
I'm 90% sure you can't
wim
wim
so, apples and oranges
Somebody please delete my hard drive with x = input(); f"{x}"
x = "hello, " + name isn't different to x = f"hello, {name}"
wim
wim
on python2 or python3 ? troll.jpg
19:24
Reversing those two would make more sense in the context
reversed(_) FTFY
I would personally go with .format for string formatting.
I personally wouldn't use strings at all. They're just a pain, you know? Computers were made for numbers.
I still use .format maybe 20% of the time, when I feel like it aids in readability
@Kevin But the exe with 3.5 didnt work either? Are you proposing uninstalling 3.6 entirely and trying to use pyinstaller on a fresh 3.5?
wim
wim
19:26
yah format is sometimes better
like this '{0} {1} {0}'.format(x, y)
Sometimes "{} plus {} equals {}".format(very long equation, very long equation, very long equation) is an improvement over f"{very long equation} plus {very long equation} equals {very long equation}"
or when you reuse the same format string with various values inside
@ZackTarr No, I'm proposing sticking with 3.6 and exclusively trying to fix the problem within that environment, ignoring 3.5 entirely
If I need to print and transform my string, I'd go with string % notation, but else I think format is always better.
wim
wim
@Kevin why only 90% sure?
19:28
@Kevin Noted. I was just making sure I followed. Im going to try and do it on my home PC tonight and see what I can find. Might be something breaking it on my work PC but thats me just shooting in the dark
I reserve 91%+ for things I've formally proven from first principles
But thank you all for your help on the exe thing today! Ill work on it tonight and let you know how it goes.
rbrb
wim
wim
the return value of input() is a string
f'{x}' is then putting a string in a string
no eval there, what's there to be worried about?
Have you ever known a case where you'd need eval() ?
But what if your f string is f"{eval(x)}" :-P
wim
wim
19:31
...
Or maybe you're doing eval('f"' + x + '"'), where x is untrusted input
These are both idiotic ideas but a fool such as myself might try to argue that they fall under the umbrella of "f strings which are vulnerable"
wim
wim
you don't need the f-string to do that
@IMCoins I've been tempted in the exceedingly rare instance where ast.literal_eval worked for 99% of the inputs I needed to parse, and one corner case doesn't quite count as a literal. But the correct solution there is not to use eval, but to sigh dejectedly and write your own parser
wim
wim
@IMCoins hmm, nope. tried to think of one. couldn't.
well if you used eval or a lot of hard work to construct variables called var1, var2, ..., var156, you might want to use eval. But instead you should just restart.
wim
wim
19:37
I think I wrote in a test suite once a line like assert eval(repr(obj)) == obj but I wouldn't say I needed it
You can prove that eval is never absolutely necessary, because [mumble] turing completeness [handwave] LL(1) grammar [cough] ad-hoc lisp implementation
There is no magic within eval that you cannot also find within yourself
@StevenVascellaro @Stephen Glad to hear that, I thought I was the only one puzzled, like a sheep astray :P. Thanks for clearing that out. :)
@IMCoins please edit to remove the expletive
Cbg all. @IMCoins ^
May I suggest "bucket"
wim
wim
19:41
which expletive? the eval or the f-string?
@JaffreyJoy True story: Back when I used to contribute to the Dolphin Emulator, I accidentally broke games from Australia. Nobody noticed for 3 months.
Can't edit, too old. Did I say something wrong ?
"Or lazy coding, because sometimes **** it"
@IMCoins check the room rules - especially #2
wim
wim
where's that indent canonical someone here wrote
19:44
Didn't know, I'll read the rules. Sorry ! :)
wim
wim
ugh, too late
how typocal
Let's try this...
> I mean, there's a function for everything. I happened to see the other day one of my earlier code, and saw an `eval()` to name an object.variable like `arr.{} = some_value`. And even though I was impressed why I didn't think about a dictionnary before, I happened to discover `setattr()` and `getattr()` which offers this ability.

I believe the usage of `eval()` is just ignorance of another system to make things work the way you want them to. Or lazy coding, because sometimes, f--- it.

-- IMCoins
Speaking of f-strings, can we agree they are one of the best things added to Python?
wim
wim
19:46
hmm, nah
wim
wim
they add a slightly better way of doing something that was already possible with str.format
There. Naughty word moved, while retaining the rest of the message for posterity. Bit of a patch job but meh
wim
wim
Much better than a kick, +1
I love them because it lets me fix "Line too long" warnings without changing anything. :P
19:47
Anyway @IMCoins I think you're right on the money. eval shows up when you either don't know the right way to do the thing, or you know the right way but don't want to do it
@StevenVascellaro yeah I just use one for that
That, and they fix "logging-not-lazy" warnings in pylint
wim
wim
lazy is the root of all eval
Heh
reject the edit pls here stackoverflow.com/questions/49563861/… thanks
fixes OP's IndentationError *facepalm*
19:49
Bold move
I'm... bold... over
I'm debating if I should use f-strings when assigning variables
@AndrasDeak laurek
name = path[1] + " " + path[3] + " " + path[5]
name = f"{path[1]} {path[3]} {path[5]}"
wim
wim
' '.join(path[1::2])
@StevenVascellaro From reading Dolphin's occasional status reports, I get the idea that quite a lot of contributions only have an observable difference on like two games ever made out of a library of thousands
19:51
For that, I think "{} {} {}".format(path[1], path[3], path[5] is more readable
And wim's is cleverest
Sometimes the change only effects Big Rig Truckers '05. Sometimes the change makes Wind Waker's FPS double. One of these gets trumpeted more than the other.
@Kevin Two words: Rogue Squadron
I recall that one showing up in the status reports a lot :-)
I mostly stuck to working on the GUI, so I never dealt directly with emulation code
But there were always quite a few fun quirks
One of my favorite bugs reports was "Mario Galaxy doesn't crash when you do this glitch"
The emulation code guys scare me. Too often the report is like "by crawling through ten megabytes of raw assembly code and noticing a single byte out of place, GokuWeedLord420 was able to fix the invisible tauntaun glitch that has plagued Rogue Squadron for a decade"
I suspect GokuWeedLord420 gained actual force sensitivity from so much exposure to Rogue Squadron
19:56
I'm pretty sure I would remember a GokuWeedLord on the dev team :P
"Hey GokuWeedLord420, can you review my PR?"
"[waving mystically] This is not the dev team member you're looking for"
"... Do you ever walk into a room and forget why you came in? Oh well. [leaves]"
If you were curious, GitHub has a list of developers
Oh hey, I'm #44
Moderately disappointed that there aren't any names that were obviously chosen when the user was a 13 year old script kiddie and they haven't changed it since then because they're so important to the team that nobody dares suggest them switching to something more professional
@wim What does ' '.join(path[1::2]) do? Is it incrementing the index by 2?
@Kevin Ah I know that well - my birthname is skeletor_p0rn
20:04
Where's the zero_cool, where's sephiroth_and_me_4eva, where's i_hacked_ur_moms_toaster
Online I'm stuck with this stupid fad name you see here
wim
wim
yeah
I mean, my username was 'Stevoisiak', so take that as you will
I learned that waynew isn't obviously wayne w
some people read that as way new
Ah yeah that's quite good
20:05
which is kind of hilarious
@StevenVascellaro It does mean (path[1::2]): "I want all the elements from the index [1], until the end, with +2 index at each iteration."
@IMCoins all the odd-indexed path elements, yeah. 1, 3, 5, etc.
I am explaining it syntaxicly. :)
You could have `path[1::3]` and my explanation would still be correct.
wim
wim
@WayneWerner susanalbumparty
wim
wim
20:11
was trending on twitter a while back
"I'll take anal bum cover for $600" "What? No, that's 'An Album Cover!'"
@WayneWerner dont make me laugh like that during work
@OneRaynyDay blame Regis Philbin (that mongrel idiot)
20:28
Tcl has the most complete way of eliminating the need for eval: the function definition syntax takes a string for the function body. :)
Pretty much every control flow construct in Tcl takes strings.
It's always seemed weird to me that Tcl doesn't seem to have a way to extract the body of a defined function as a string, what with how extremely string-oriented the language is.
Yeah, that is a weird oversight.
it must be an easter egg
20:44
A couple years ago I was trying to get some ancient Tkinter code of mine to run on Python 2.7, and I realized that half my code was building strings of Tcl and passing them behind Tkinter's back. Surely that wasn't the right way to use Tkinter even back then. Anyway, I had no idea what any of it meant, and I ended up just reimplementing the GUI from scratch.
wim
wim
21:24
    try:
        result = download.result()
    except Exception as err:
        result = 'fail'
        log.error('fatal download error', key=key, err=str(err))
    finally:
        results[result] += 1
PyCharm warns me "local variable result might be referenced before assignment" ... really?
am I missing something obvious here?
if something other than Exception (subclasses included) was raised?
wim
wim
ah
yes, you're right, thanks
no problem
wim
wim
hmm, how to refactor to avoid that
put result = 'fail' outside the try/except flow I guess?
21:28
yup
wim
wim
ugly but works ...
is there a try-except-else?
could be useful for this
wim
wim
yes but won't help
how so?
well, DRY
wim
wim
else only entered if no exception
21:30
oooh OK, I see
Does git log -S show commits where the search term was removed?
wim
wim
yes
The one day I decide to read the transcripts... and I wish I hadn't
wim
wim
but if it was removed once and added once somewhere else, maybe not
21:32
Is there a way to filter only commits where the search term was removed and not include the ones where the term was added?
wim
wim
hmmm
I don't know, good question though.
Hi everybody
In FLASK, documentation, when you search the queries section dont appear a SELECT paragraph
@wim: For your exception problem, you could initialize result before the try.
@VictorA. umm, what?
In my current situation, I only have 6 commits to check, so no big deal
21:36
I think you are looking for the "Querying records" section...
wim
wim
@VictorA. that's .filter(...)
and I can narrow it down even more if I just check the specific file I am intersetd in
@ThiefMaster i edited
I still don't get your question
wim
wim
@user2357112 same as what I wrote already?
21:37
@wim i know but dont is too much specified
@wim: I don't think so.
result = 'fail'
try:
    result = ...
it's how I read it ^ v
wim
wim
9 mins ago, by wim
put result = 'fail' outside the try/except flow I guess?
@ThiefMaster i ask because i see davidism connected and he maintain flask library
I really need to look into syntax-aware diff tools...
wim
wim
21:38
am I smoking crack or are you?
Ah. Missed that.
smoked crackers, mhmmm
@VictorA. yeah, i'm a maintainer as well. what are you actually trying to find out with your question? do you want to know how to select something from your DB? then my first answer should be all you needed
wim
wim
maybe u should look in sqlalchemy docs directly
that's vanilla ORM stuff
@ThiefMaster yes, i want to know, but searching in queries only appear, inserting, deleting and quereying records
21:49
@VictorA. what are you trying to do?
@ThiefMaster yes, i want to know, but searching in queries only appear, inserting, deleting and quereying records, there is a part when you got examples but is not too much explained
@WayneWerner sorry bad english, filling a select box with id - description from a table, but get object is not JSON serializable
well, that's an easy solution. If you search for "python flask custom json serializer" then one of the results is this: stackoverflow.com/q/5022066/344286
@WayneWerner thanks!
@ThiefMaster is gonna flask get another actualization like 0.14?
user6368925
hello
21:58
hello
Huh, I'm out of close votes. That's a first.
@VictorA. 1.0, when it's ready.
@ThiefMaster Great, is cool flask, simple and efficient

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