« first day (2546 days earlier)      last day (2627 days later) » 
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

17:06
I tried to get into hardware a year back, but I got really anxious at the thought of bricking my equipment by sending a current through it the wrong direction or something, so I never got past the Hello World equivalent
Despite some very friendly guidance from users in this room
I wonder if there are any beginner-oriented virtual hardware simulators out there.
@MarcusAndrews I can use a soldering iron, but I haven't used my soldering skills much in the last few decades so they're a little rusty.
Some real Fisher Price level stuff where you hook a digital wire into a digital light bulb and see it emit digital light
@Kevin you could try Elenco snap-on circuits
But with Realistic Physics Action so it gets dimmer when you wire it in parallel or w/e
Much like Sim City, half of the fun would be in intentionally causing disasters to see what happens. Can you make the light bulb melt? Try to reach the leaderboards
randomly you get gamma rays that will fry a circuit or introduce noise
17:11
I need something new to procrastinate with, so I'm going to start cryptopals.com. Join me!
10
Encouraging people to make self-destructing boxes of eletronics is probably a no-go in the current political climate even if it's all make-believe
Other people joining in would be cool, since there's still a couple months before Advent.
@WayneWerner gamma rays - they're dangerous... look at Bruce Banner...
> So What Do I Need To Know?

You'll want to be able to code proficiently in any language.
Oh dear, it will take a while to gain proficiency in all languages.
Umm... Set 1 challenges don't look too difficult...
17:14
Apparently Set 1 Problem 6 is where a lot of people trip up.
wim
wim
@davidism looks fun, count me in
Now, when you say "join me", is there like, a social aspect like AoC has with its private leaderboard? Or is it more a sentiment of "let's all do these separately together"
The second one.
In any case, I'm in, time permitting :-)
something tells me these challenges are less aligned along my practical programming experience
17:22
First attempt at 1.1 gave me b'NDk... which is wrong. Rocky start.
Going live in 30 minutes (if I make it to @recursecenter in time 🏃) with Set 1 of http://cryptopals.com on http://twitch.tv/filosottile!
This guy is a security researcher who's already done them, but he's streaming working through them again in Go on Twitch.
wim
wim
I'm killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom
@Kevin umm... base64.b64encode(binascii.unhexlify('49276d206b696c6c696e6720796f75722062726169‌​6e206c696b65206120706f69736f6e6f7573206d757368726f6f6d')) ?
@davidism neat
@JonClements I was doing base64.b64encode(b"492...")
And then I spent an unproductive ten minutes looking at the struct module
wim
wim
17:28
yesterday, by wim
/me slips that one in the ol' toolbelt
bytes.fromhex came in handy sooner than expected.
@Kevin Drink more coffee?
Today is actually my allotted Caffeine Day, so this is me at peak performance, sadly.
Assuming peak performance doesn't require sustaining a train of thought longer than 20 seconds
what's all the hex stuff
we're all h3x0rs here
19 mins ago, by davidism
I need something new to procrastinate with, so I'm going to start https://www.cryptopals.com/. Join me!
17:32
Cryptopals challenge. See starred message at right, or see quoted message above
Or see explanatory message about other messages above.
or see broader context above
wim
wim
I will be putting my stuff here
b"I'm killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom"
if all these cryptocoins fail us, we can try trading in cryptopaz
17:33
All right, time to knock challenge 2 out of the pa TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'bytes' and 'bytes'
wim
wim
I can't believe I'm saying this but maybe Python 2 will be better for this stuff
i have #1 but no idea if it's the intended solution
I think I have an easier time if I can strictly delineate bytes as the type that I perform operations on, and strings as the type used to display pretty results
@wim Don't go there. :-O
17:36
Small hiccup that hexlify returns a bytes object instead of a string though
Ok, I've worked out the kinks and am totally ready for challenge thr-- hmm, where can I get a good natural language parsing library?
Umm.. hexlify(bytes(x ^ y for x, y in zip(bytes.fromhex(a), bytes.fromhex(b)))) at a first stab...
Food time - bbl
wim
wim
man, I have a feeling Python is going to suck for this.
better to use C or Go or something else
thanks for the heads-up, I'll try with awk then
does print(hex(int(s1, 16) ^ int(s2, 16))) count?
Yeah, Python is probably going to be awful for the later sets where performance / memory matters.
17:47
fingers crossed for numpy
wim
wim
I expect numpy actually will help a lot
you can use the dtype to make ints behave insanely
actually kind of fun to write out the logic by hand
Solutions by Room 6 - powered by insanely behaved ints...
7 was placed into solitary care following the incident with 9
<I understood that reference .gif>
17:57
@MarcusAndrews I use to take robotics that require soldering / hardware stuff but this was a few years ago...
Oh boy, 1.6 has a lot of instructions...
So I benefited from my own past answer for the first time. I saw the upvote on the question so I realized I wrote the answer before I could've tried upvoting it
@Kevin Good call. I think if we do this in Python 3 we should probably use proper Unicode strings for input & output data, unless the challenge only makes sense if you assume that the data is bytes.
wim
wim
18:14
the input is text, because you're reading it from html web page :)
maybe there will be some challenges where you have to download files, I don't know
About half of the challenges I've seen require you to make guesses about which cipher key is correct based on the letter frequency of the result resembling ordinary English text.
That sort of restricts you to assuming the data is ASCII
How would I go about reporting a user who edited a post to add code to a question that didn't have any code? I can't flag an edit, and I can't flag the user.
Because the average challenge-taker knows that E is the most common ascii letter, but doesn't know the most common Kannadian glyph or whatever
@Rawing sure you can
Should I just flag the question with a custom reason?
18:17
@Rawing or flag any post of the user
either way, explain in detail and link to the user or the edit depending on your choice
Alright, thanks.
heck, link to the edit in every case
you can also ping editors in comments, but you probably know this
Hmm, does markup work in the text box for custom reasons?
He's been pinged and asked where he got the code from, didn't respond. Posted an answer a few minutes later.
links do, never tried code
that's good to know, thanks
18:23
I'm pretty sure it's the exact same thing as comments
@davidism: Are you here?
@patchie welcome. Users are generally discouraged to randomly ping people, but I suspect you're here because of your closed post. I think if you want to discuss that post you should say what you want to say, otherwise by the time davidism responds you might not be here, which would lead to an endless loop of "are you here?" "yes, I'm here" "and now are you here again?" etc.
whoops, didn't hit the keys I wanted there
the benefit of SO chat is that messages are persistent and notifications are a thing, so async communication is possible
@AndrasDeak: yep, just wanted to know if he was here to discuss the matter.
18:28
dododo
sure
@MarcusAndrews Yoda would be proud :P
trytrytry
@AndrasDeak: also, he should know my question already, as i already gave him the question in the closed post. But it seems someone deleted it.
is there a way to see who deleted my comment? and why?
@patchie then he only knows if he read your comment before it got deleted
comments get deleted all the time, mostly because they get flagged by users
rude/abusive and "no longer needed" comments can get flags, and mods don't think much before deleting them
18:30
@AndrasDeak: yep. But you still didnt answer my question. Is there a way to see who deleted it?
nope
a mod could tell you that a mod deleted it
unless the post was rude, in which case a handful of regular users could've deleted it
Ordinary users can't directly delete other people's comments, incidentally
it was not rude, it explained why my post isnt a duplicate.
I have nothing more to add based on that information :P
and i also updated my post, to explain why my post isnt a duplicate. but still i get no response from any mod.
18:31
mods don't respond to that
how can i un"duplicate" my post then?
Mods are human exception handlers. The bulk of moderation (like closing and reopening) is done by regular users
its a false duplicate
if you convince a large-enough number of high-rep users that it's not a dupe, they can reopen it. The best would be to convince davidism first, because dupe hammers like that usually happen for a good reason
blah...so irritating that people mark stuff as duplicate when they really dont know how this stuff works
18:33
as it happens, davidism knows a lot more about flask than I do, so I wouldn't vote to reopen anything he hammered in [tag:flask*]
@patchie haha, that's great
bought three more mechanical keyboards
may have a problem :O
@MarcusAndrews how many hands do you have, again? :P
whew, they're still there -- 2
@patchie fun fact: you removed the language tag and the flask tag so now davidism couldn't reopen it even if he wanted to
18:35
@AndrasDeak: this system is super good, i know...NOT
I don't think I can add anything to the situation that will move things further
when a mod marks something as duplicate, they should discuss the matter with the user and respond, but he never did....maybe he also deleted my comment, i dont know.
it wasn't a mod, it was davidism, who's not a mod
aha, i dont know
users with a lot of experience can single-handedly close duplicates in their tags, so discussing with noobs is rarely necessary. If they make a mistake, they can be engaged in discussion to reopen.
this is what you started well, and continued worse
18:37
hehe, because he never responded
i have waited over a week for him to respond
coming here was the right step, and you should've stopped at explaining your point and waiting for his response
i am still waiting
we don't know when your comment got deleted and whether he had read it
@patchie *waiting in wise silence
it was there for 2-3 days
anyway, good luck
18:39
thanks
@MarcusAndrews if you have cats some of them can be effective decoys (the keyboards, not the cats)
i need it with this kind of system
do any of them have internal heating? :D
AD your patient is on the same level as a saint :P
Unfortunately we need this kind of system to deal with the countless bad questions we get every day
18:39
@MarcusAndrews the struggle is real. I have three(?)
plus several others :P
keyboards that is, not hands.
@AndrasDeak: cant i just create a new question? "This question was marked as an exact duplicate of an existing question. If this question is different, please edit it to explain how it is different or ask a new question."
or will randon people or mods get angry then? and duplicate my duplicate? :P
But that would be awesome. If I had enough processing power, anyway
@WayneWerner Which keyboards do you have?
18:41
@patchie yes, that would be a very... rude thing to do
my fingers, apparently, are possessed
@WayneWerner: it says that i can do it in the explanation though...
I can't reopen the question because you removed the tag I used to close the question.
@MarcusAndrews I have the leopold otaku keyboard (blank keycaps), a Bastion bluetooth keyboard, and then a Geezer one
@davidism: there...edited.
I don't find your "not a dupe" statement very convincing, mostly because the question itself is missing an MCVE and general coherence.
18:42
@patchie I meant make another question asking the same question
I agree with @davidism, having glanced at both the question in question and the duplicates
what kind of switches?
@WayneWerner: yep, i know...but it actually says i should edit my question or create a new question..
So edited your question ?
18:43
@patchie if you can't find the information that you need based on the duplicates, then you need to *edit your question and show what you tried and how none of those things apply
@patchie: You can ask a new, non-duplicate question, but asking another dupe will get a very poor reception.
@davidism nice, I started hacking cryptopals,
@patchie Well, I reopened it, but the quality's still low. I'd recommend reviewing How To Ask and Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable Example from the help center, then editing appropriately.
decided I'd use langdetect in task 3...
but it doesn't sound like you've actually tried anything beyond looking at the questions, seeing they lacked code that you can copy and paste, and then claiming they weren't actually dupes
18:45
Hmm, my cryptopals 1.6 code runs, but the key it chooses as the best candidate gives me junk plaintext...
half the time langdetectsays that s__[Y^W\x10}s\x17C\x10\\Y[U\x10Q\x10@_E^T\x10_V\x10RQS_^ is the most probable string as being written in English... pfft
@MarcusAndrews the leopold has browns, the other two have blues. I think the leopold are uh... whatever the brand is that's not Cherry but almost(?)
@patchie stop removing relevant tags
gateron?
I have no clue what the switch brands are in these other ones, but they're definitely blues
18:46
it wasnt relevant
yeah! gateron :)
Your title and body mention both "Python" and "Flask". If that's not actually relevant, edit the rest of your question to remove that too.
@MarcusAndrews what keyboards/switches do you have?
@davidism: the problem with adding python and flask, is clearly that people with no experience with my question can mark it as duplicate.
heads-up: I flagged your "why was my comment deleted?" comment as no longer needed :P
18:47
Same
I've determined that I can live without a 10key, but I need arrow keys
@patchie I'm going to be a teensy bit rude here and tell you that's a stupid reason to remove tags
@patchie ok, then you can leave now, since the question is open and as you say it's not related to Python.
I'd suggest reviewing the help center and also your approach to communication in general, it's pretty abrasive.
@WayneWerner: it might be stupid, but thats how stackoverflow works unfortunately.
18:49
I wonder how many views/answers a question that's missing relevant tags will get...
@patchie Seeing as how you aren't getting the information you seek, I'd say that's not how SO works... but anyway.
@WayneWerner iKBC F108 full with Cherry MX Blue, iKBC F87 tenkeyless with Cherry MX Brown, Ducky One tenkeyless with Cherry MX Red, and a Vortex POK3R 60% with Cherry MX Green
Enough garlic for me
@MarcusAndrews I really want to get a UHK
what are the greens? Aren't they like soft blues?
When the cats comes you know someone was shown out :D
greens are like heavy blues
18:50
thanks for the kick. lol
maybe it's to make room for the cats, which maybe it's because we like the cats more than the ones shown out ? who knows
@MarcusAndrews as a physicist I'll have to object
"stiffer" blues then? :D
18:52
Do you find that your fingers get tired more with the greens?
A fair number don't like the greens but if you have a heavier press they are pretty nice
personally no, you get used to them after a week or so (but that's just IME)
I think I might actually prefer them - I have a model M (ish), and I have noticed that it's got a stiffer spring than the blues
I sure do love the clicky sound though
definitely
the model M is the best keyboard for a zombie apocalypse
in what way?
18:53
I should probably go on Amazon and pick up a usb/PS/2 adapter
they're like 5lbs
UHK is a sweet keyboard too but I type very differently compared to most people so the hand split thing would be lost on me
aaah I see :D
you could literally bludgeon people to death with it and you might even be able to still use it for typing afterward
I should make a video real quick to freak people out, lol
Oh, there we go, my problem was in step #4: I was discarding all key sizes other than the three best candidates, but the actual right one was around 5-7th best. Maybe my normalized score calculator is wrong...
18:55
I don't know the amount of force required to break a human skull, but if it was one of those squishy Walking Dead style ones you could totally kill a zombie with a Model M and continue typing on it later
Funny that following the exact semi-optional recommendations on the page leads you to a wrong answer.
@WayneWerner OK I wasn't going to link this but your discussion of keypress strength reminded me of this
@WayneWerner If you watch Game of Thrones, the whole scene with the Mountain generated a ton of discussion on that very subject :P
@MarcusAndrews as a complete touch typer, I would be entertained (or freaked out) by that
@AndrasDeak ah, one of the classics.
I should see if I can find some of the old AIM gifs that I made
if you remember you had a buddy icon that was in line with buttons for like, "add buddy" or whatever
clever individuals noticed that and started making buddy icons that looked like they were buttons with the same text syle
I made one that was "eat buddy"
never had AIM
18:59
it was an animated gif that was heavily inspired by this Calvin and Hobbes
@WayneWerner Hmm, I may have used that one at one time. Small world :-)
Eugh my 1.6 solution is a horrible rat's nest of non-descriptive variable names
@Kevin I would be totally delighted if it were mine. And kind of amazed lol
I'm 70% sure it was "eat buddy". I wonder how likely is it that that exact concept was developed independently by more than one person?
@Kevin just use a common root name and add incremental integers with exec
could have been inspired/stolen :P
19:05
I guess stick figure cannibalism is a relatively obvious choice of gag if you're going for the sort of cutesy-grim Hot Topic aesthetic, a la Penguin of Doom, that was kind of trendy at the time
Um. I hope that didn't sound patronizing or anything
Hah. Nope. I was one of those Hot Topic teens (not that I had much money to spend at such a store)
I do have a pair of window frame (i.e. prescriptionless) glasses that I got there, still
I had a friend who taught me that glasses are the difference between looking like you had a bit too much to drink last night, and a college professor that was up a little late grading papers
One of the reasons I don't switch to contacts from glasses is so that my weirdness is viewed in the light of "eccentric intellectual" instead of "guy on the bus that talks to the empty seat next to him"
+2
Plus contacts are way too much...work.
So recently I thought of a rather interesting (I thought) counter argument to the argument about why we should have line lengths > 80. "It's 2017 and we have huge monitors!" they say.

Well then, just turn them on their sides and you'll be fine now, won't you?
19:15
@WayneWerner Hmm to counter that is, I have a TV for my monitor :D
@MooingRawr Change your text orientation?
I think the real reason they encourage short lines is because really long lines may indicate that your code is more complicated than it needs to be; either because you're cramming too many operations into one statement, or you're nesting too many blocks within one another, or both.
But "watch out for lines that do too much" and "try not to nest a lot" are really subjective, and there's not much room for subjectivity in a styling standards document. So they chose "keep it under 80 characters" as a guideline and "so tiny monitors can display it" as a justification
line length correlates with line&block complexity, but not perfectly.
also split screens
Sometimes you have a perfectly simple str.format call that happens to have a longish format string, and your IDE blares at you for the PEP 8 violation, but you're really not gaining much in readability by breaking it into two forty character chunks
also default terminal sizes
also it's probably easier to comprehend shorter lines even if a long one would fit your screen
19:22
@MooingRawr countering your counter to my counter: It's 2017 ;)
That's what I'm getting at: many long lines could be made clearer with more short lines (but not all of them)
@Kevin That's probably my main violation, and about the only one that I'm okay with
@WayneWerner But your counter is just a reason for my counter ;( it's 2017, we are using flat screen tv that are 40 inch, as a monitor :(
though most of the times I just split it into lines anyway because it's not like....
print(f'{some.thing} with some more text that has stuff'
        ' to say is really that big of a deal')
19:26
Hmm, am I going to have to install a third party library to decrypt AES-128?
@Kevin from Bletchley import Colossus?
can anyone see this
def hamming(a, b):
    diff = xorstrings(a, b)
    return bin(int.from_bytes(diff, 'big')).count('1')
wifi decided to die
@MarcusAndrews Yeah
19:27
@MarcusAndrews kinda hazy, but yes
@MarcusAndrews nope
finally, hrngngg
@WayneWerner youtube.com/watch?v=p3Z7A-Tkeks this is why I type funny
never learned how to use all the fingers lmao
that's pretty weird
the one that I've heard that amuses me the most is this guy that apparently typed about your speed but with two fingers.
@MarcusAndrews "this video will self-destruct in 3...2...1..."
He'd look at the keyboard and then type like a machine gun
19:30
wow
trying two fingers but making a ton of mistakes
The most useful class I took in high school was the one that taught me to touch type
One semester wasn't quite enough to learn the numbers/symbols row unfortunately so I am forever cursed to look down every time I need a parenthesis
IRC did that for me nicely
;)
@WayneWerner thanks for the clear exhibition for all to see why we should have more than 80 chars per line :D
I wrote a little application to do number row drills but I don't have the discipline to keep using it ten minutes every day for the month or so that would be necessary to commit to muscle memory
I only got as far as I did in school because my grade depended on it
Welp pycrypto failed to pip install, so this may be the end of my cryptopals adventure
@Kevin Get yourself a blank set of keycaps. That will fix your problem sharpish.
@Kevin what about cryptography? Though that might depend on pycrypto, I'm not sure
19:35
@WayneWerner I'll try it.
Ok, that worked. Thanks :-)
excellent!
Whether the library contains the tools I require, remains to be seen
pretty sure it has AES, and some of the other cryptography primitives, in addition to some higher level abstractions
The fernet sub-module, which is described as a kind of easy no-configuration-needed class, says that it runs on AES, so it must be available under the hood. But I don't think I can get at it by playing with the high-level toys only
Pretty sure there's a dangerous or whatever submodule that gives you access to the primitives
19:40
If I knew what I was doing and what I was looking for, I bet this would be a five minute task. But alas, I am an ignoramus.
hazmat
:D
in 6 I crosscorrelated all blocks together...
I still do not have a good frequency model, how'd you guys do it?
19:44
@AnttiHaapala Mine is quite primitive: for each alphabetical character, somewhere between 26 to 1 points depending on how common it is; and 10 points for a space.
zero points for non-space non-letters.
It turned out to be sufficient.
ah that's good...
Firedrill
rbrb
:D
It's more sophisticated than my lazy 26 - "etaoinshrdlcumwfgypbvkjxqz".index(c), so I expect it to be more than accurate enough
Curious, CBC mode requires a random byte sequence as an argument. I assumed that most encryption algorithms were deterministic.
IV is always random
it is deterministic with your random IV
19:51
All I know about IVs is that pokemon enthusiasts are really serious about them
You know you've stumbled on the half of the fandom that takes itself seriously when the article you're reading requires Mathjax to render properly
@Kevin I wonder how related they are to these IVs
which is probably what Antti meant ;)
This formula is obviously wrong because it doesn't take into account the powerful friendship that I share with my Rattata
cbg @toonarmycaptain
@Kevin did you ever play that hilariously bad PETA Pokemon game?
Firedrills would be more interesting with less warning and more effects, such as smoke...
19:54
Nah.
@toonarmycaptain you mean like releasing smoke grenades from the server room? ;)
slicing is quite handy in 6
@WayneWerner Amusingly they're kind of conceptually similar: you feed random IVs to your CBC mode on initialization, after which the algorithm is deterministic. Your pokemon's IVs are randomly generated when it's first created, and forever afterwards its stat growth is deterministic.
in JavaScript, 1 min ago, by taco
Just uploading all of my iPhone photos, ignore me
good times
@Kevin that's roughly what I gathered. Random Hacker used AES-256, it's super effective!
A wild script-kiddie appears! He uses ROT-13 and misses!
The chat's image uploading interface is pretty good, but if I was going to use it to mass upload irrelevant images, I'd probably make my own room for it
19:58
Not to be confused with ROTT, of course.
@WayneWerner Sure. That'll work. Small bottle rockets, firecrackers, for when the students get outside. A real test to see if our procedures are adequate.
@Kevin imgurs native image uploader is a lot easier
I've had some frustrating experiences with imgur proper, although the details have become fuzzy to me
DSM
DSM
20:00
103 passed, 3 xfailed, 1 xpassed in 55.47 seconds <- this makes me happy.
import time

import matplotlib as mpl

mpl.use('Agg')
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import numpy as np
so far so good
pycharm community says this fails pep8 because I used mpl.use('Agg')
but you're right, it has to come before importing pyplot
@kush no, because you don't have 2 empty lines.
20:05
no, the pycharm message is module level import not at top of file
ah ya
you can ignore that
though...
bwaah 1.6 completed.
took to much time
1.6?
@Kevin where did you get AES-EBC?
my pycrypto doesn't have ecb :/
*sorry just now noticed that of course it is not Electronic Book Code.
ok 1.8 done
20:28
That crypto site first puzzle's hidden message is a tad bit creepy ...
20:39
Not entirely sure if we're supposed to be handrolling solutions to these problems or using builtin functions
i just use built in cuz faster.
lol, touche:
Lots of people know that when you encrypt something in ECB mode, you can see penguins through it. Not so many of them can decrypt the contents of those ciphertexts, and now you can.
21:08
rhubarb all
\o have a good one
21:40
@AnttiHaapala Yep, that's one of the fastest ways in plain Python, unless you create tables. But if you have gmpy its popcount is over 4 times faster. See my bitcount_speed_tests.py, which has some stats in its docstring.
22:18
Is anyone still around at this time?
Thought so ^^
 
1 hour later…
23:52
I am
but you aren't :(
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

« first day (2546 days earlier)      last day (2627 days later) »