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15:00
Hey @davidism This guy came in here a day or so ago with a Flask question and we told him to post it on the main site. It was horrible, and we had problems communicating with him, trying to get him to improve it. He's fixed it up a little, but I guess it's still not particularly answerable. Do you have any suggestions... apart from "Nuke it from orbit"? stackoverflow.com/questions/42041070/…
Doesn't appear to be a Flask question based on the error.
(an episode from the series "meanwhile in Finland")
@davidism Oh, ok. Thanks for looking at it. He says he went to stripe.com and tried to upgrade but had problems. But he keeps posting the info in here instead of adding it to his question.
Also, I'm pretty sure there's some packages that you can install that fix TLS for Python requests at least, probably a duplicate for that sitting somewhere.
@davidism I've put that link in a comment.
DSM
DSM
15:12
Life is suffering cabbage for all.
@AnttiHaapala :)
@DSM Do you want to talk about it over some cabbage soup?
@AnttiHaapala reminds me of the saying of my homeland: "if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes"
DSM
DSM
Thankfully I work from home on Mondays so I don't need to handle human contact.
@PM2Ring I see... I just didn't think of it, my thought was because it returned a map object which you had to call to "run"
15:14
@PM2Ring the solution is to upgrade the connection to TLS1.1 using Python
alas I guess the user is using a crappy macos python where such feat is unpossibru.
@PM2Ring cleaned up
@PM2Ring @AnttiHaapala this is most likely the right dupe, although I can't test it out with Stripe: stackoverflow.com/questions/29099404/…
grr... anyone else find it annoying when people try to oversimplify problems which are inherently complex?
Although the real answer is to use a later version of Python / SSL library.
@davidism looks correct, or another possibility is that their stripe lib is just out of date
but I suspect that this is also a MacOSX issue.
<grr apple>
2 rep remaining to cap :P
Stripe uses requests, so yes looks like this is the right dupe. github.com/stripe/stripe-python/blob/master/setup.py#L29
15:27
somehow the Python answers do not get rep, but works nice
@davidism Interesting! I can use that info to improve my Python 2.6.6 setup.
This one might be more relevant for Macs: stackoverflow.com/questions/37304907/…
@corvid Sure. To paraphrase Einstein : Things should be simplified as much as possible, but no further.
"earned at least 200 reputation on 75 days"
halfway there...
@davidism I think this is the stock python, so no
Right, but I'm not sure if the extra packages will help if they're using Mac's stock OpenSSL and Python versions.
15:41
pyopenssl says "high-level wrapper over openssl"
pyOpenSSL is a rather thin wrapper around (a subset of) the OpenSSL library. With thin wrapper we mean that a lot of the object methods do nothing more than calling a corresponding function in the OpenSSL library.
@PM2Ring I posted a comment with the last two links you posted, if you want to remove those.
though, yes, not sure :D
If anyone with a Mac wants to test if making a TLS 1.2 request with pip install requests[security] works for the system Python, that would be nice.
Would have to find a domain that only supports TLS 1.2 though.
@davidism Thanks. I'm on my phone so I'm a bit slow.
@davidism I have a mac, can do that
15:44
@davidism perhaps the stripe? :D
Yeah, but you might need to go through some hoops to set up an API sandbox first.
I'm pretty sure there's some SSL testing sites out there.
Also, anyone know how to pip install to a specific version of python?
pipX works on UX I believe?
@corvid create a virtualenv with that python, don't install to the system
@davidism hmm strange...
15:46
I really don't like managing versions of python tbh :\ that's one thing that annoys me about python
i tried
openssl s_client -connect api.stripe.com:443 -tls1
and it works until it starts complaining about apikey
uh didn't pip actually work for different versions? By using a number behind "pip" (pip3 install xyz, pip2 install xyz)
no need for a virtual environment for this?
@AnttiHaapala from the Strip blog it looks like they backed off that check for now, and I actually couldn't find the message in their code, so maybe they just need to update the library.
@paul23 no, don't do that ever
@paul23 this is for your system env
I should learn to use virtual envs someday. [cat_reading_newspaper.png]
15:49
@davidism care to enlighten me? - Any reason why it's so terrible?
I just specify the complete path of whichever pip I want to run.
Yes: use a virtualenv. Never install things to the system yourself, let your package manager do that.
-no experience with linux/bsd deriviates- But if you install things within a virtual environment other applications won't be able to reach that, right? That's the whole idea of a virtual environment?
I'm guessing "package manager" here means something other than "a thing which downloads packages" because pip is one of those
the idea is to keep your working environment isolated from system environment
15:52
@paul23 also: if for some reason you're ignoring the advice, use pythonX -mpip to make sure it is the pip for the version that you're using
@Kevin system package manager, the thing that manages your system python install
because it may happen that you need different versions of various packages in different environments and it would became difficult to work
Luckily windows doesn't have a "system" Python so I guess I'll just do whatever I want, then.
DSM
DSM
I'm not 100% opposed to installing to the system, but don't do it nearly as much as I used to now that I can install the stack in less than twenty minutes.
If you're on Mac or Linux, your system Python is used for system things. Messing with the pacakages available to it is a really dangerous idea.
15:53
installing to the system is fine, as long as its something like ipython ;)
In which case you would use your package manager to install it @marxin: pacaur -S ipython.
Well I'm using windows, so can't really speak from experience. But am I correct in assuming you just use a "user-account-wide" virtual environment then? Or do you typically create a new virtual env for each application?
DSM
DSM
In the olden days I used to get frustrated because pip3 didn't map to the right subversion. Working with environments (conda, in my case) does make life easier.
I have a different env for each project.
virtualenvwrapper or pew make this much nicer
There's even a virtualenvwrapper for Windows CMD or powershell now.
If I need to do something with a specific package for SO, I'll either already have an env with it, or I'll just spin up a temporary one.
Since pip caches downloads and wheel builds, it's really fast to do this.
@davidism but can (say) another virtual environment that runs gcc reach your python environment that way? (I honestly wonder as from my, dated, knowledge virtual environments can't communicate with each other).
15:59
Huh? GCC has nothing to do with virtualenv.
I can't imagine a reason that envs would need to communicate. Not even sure what that means.
@Kevin And Windows doesn't have a system package manager in the Linux sense , unless things have changed lately. Sure, it has Windows Updates for core system components, but not something that manages general software.
Uh I was taught that virtual environment see data (programs, files) inside other environments just as "blobs" which can't be read/written to. Protecting your system from programs ran in the virtual environment. For communication I am thinking of "I create a C application that runs some python code" or: "build tools in gcc that use python".
Virtualenv is just for isolating Python dependencies.
You seem to be thinking of docker or something.
@paul23 so that would be embeding a Python runtime in C, which is different, and not really the target case for virtualenv. The other direction, Python that calls C, is totally acceptable in a virtualenv.
If you're just talking about calling separate Python code, then you can still use virtualenv: /path/to/env/bin/python my_script.py.
you should use activate script not only for convenience but also this script does something more that just change the path
in /env/bin/ directory
@marxin no, the activate script is only for convenience during development, it is not required for executing from the env.
16:11
it unset PYTHONHOME for example
with some software it maybe could cause issues
imo its better to activate
No, the answer is to not globally set your PYTHON* env vars.
one might say that the answer is to install os without python for non-dev env ;)
there is activate script so use it, dont think too much
source activate, bum, done
What's an activate script? Is it like a startup script?
16:27
@BhargavRao too bad you've written NATO in Java, you might have found this useful: bitbucket.org/davidism/shanty/src/…
Reads the actual "new answers to old questions" tool, instead of faking it through the API.
Ouch, Hadn't seen that.
TBH, I wrote that just to learn Java.
I've been working on it on and off for a couple months. Finished the API base client as well as the 10k tools.
Should be easy to add a "retract flag" method.
Finally have over 50 reps! :D
@BhargavRao you can do the same thing my lib does for auth, it'll just be a little more painful in Java since you don't have Beautiful Soup and requests.
@davidism I'm not sure if the CMs agree to scrape the contents. There was an issue before where an user created a fake CV Queue by scraping the main page. The CMs later asked him to shut it down because the number of requests was above 100 per minute.
DSM
DSM
16:31
@Orange: step by step!
@Orange Congrats!
@davidism Yep, I'll look at the code. Thanks. :)
@BhargavRao not planning do any high volume automation with non-api stuff.
My goal is to make a nicer interface for some things I do normally.
Maybe try to make a new Android client with Kivy since the current client is really out of date.
Thanks, its only taken me 3 months xD
Ah, Yes. I don't think it would be an issue if the number of requests are just 5 or 10 per minute.
Welcome to the adults table. So, fellow adults, what's everyone's opinion on the strength of the yen vs the US dollar-- I can't fake this any more. What's everyone's favorite pokemon generation? Can't go wrong with gold/silver if you ask me.
16:34
I haven't played a Pokemon since Gold, and I only finished Blue.
DSM
DSM
I know it's short for "pocket monsters", and that Pikachu is a thing. I could probably recognize a handful of other Pokemon facts if other people remember them, I want to say Charizard? I have young relatives who like them.
Pokemon Snap is obviously best Pokemon game though.
Ok, so two votes for Gen 1, one vote for Gen 2. Strong showing.
I wanted an N64 for that as a kid so much.
I'm pretty sure I rented Snap from blockbuster for like a month in a row
DSM
DSM
16:36
I just searched the room transcripts to remember what the one with the tops was called. Kevin said "Beyblade".
I still boggle at the idea of a gritty reboot of the concept of tops.
I think I can remember most of the Pokemon theme song, but not the PokeRap.
The world really is full of things.
DSM
DSM
Many, many things.
@davidism horribly I think I can remember all the words to the bart simpson rap from the early 90s.
DSM
DSM
16:38
Feel the groove!
Remember when Bart Simpson was considered subversive? Good times.
omg.
not that. I mean The Bartman.
:D TIL
I love it when people decides to rewrite code, but leave the old functions in the solutions.... Makes figuring out which is the actual function that is being called so much more fun... /s
for example, allocationCal vs allocationCalculate
In one of my projects I wrote a function calculate_data(widget) which generated a short report of data regarding the widget. Then I needed something similar but for sprockets, so I wrote a function calculate_sprocket_data(sprocket). But I didn't go back and rename the first one calculate_widget_data.
(Yes, I had a good reason for not making them instance methods. I forget what it was, though)
17:02
cbg all
cbg \o
How's it going?
I've been playing Grim Fandango and 90 minutes in I have been able to solve roughly 33% of the puzzles without referring to a walkthrough.
Me: maybe I can use this rope to cross the gap. [clicks rope]
Manny: not picking that up.
Me: ok, I guess it's not interactable. I'll try something else...
[half an hour of futile experimentation later...]
Me: I've tried absolutely everything, may as well keep doing things I already know don't work. [clicks on the rope, but more to the right]
Manny: [picks up rope]
Me: [stream of invectives]
@Kevin it's more annoying on PS4, where you don't have a mouse.
One of the steam achievements is "play the game using only the keyboard". Its title is "Tim made us put this one in"
DSM
DSM
17:11
(Aside: took me longer than it should have to remember the corresponding verb was "inveigh".)
Me: I have two puzzles I can solve but I can't figure one out. Maybe one will give me a reward that I can use on the other.
Manny: why won't you help me?
Eva: I need <item X>, Manny.
Me: Ok, so Eva will help me out with the other puzzle if I do this one first. [gets item X]
Manny: Here you go. It's been a pleasure working with you.
Eva: It certainly has.
Me: [click]
Eva: It certainly has.
Me: [click click click]
Eva: It -- It -- It certainly has.
Me: ಠ_ಠ
This game would be lousy if not for its interesting atmosphere and soundtrack and story and setting and characters.
@Kevin Is that one of these old point-and-click-adventures?
I really liked The Gene Machine
Yeah. This is considered one of the greats, so I'm willing to accept that it isn't the game that is bad, but it is me that is bad at playing the game.
Yeah, sometimes they are a bit tricky, especially if there is a very small spot that needs to be clicked which does not stick out..
I wouldn't even classify the rope problem as a "pixel hunt", to be fair. The way the rope was presented on the screen, there really was a difference between its left and right segments.
17:25
One example I can name is in Indiana Jones - The last crusade.
Namely, it was wound around a protruding cantilever, the left half acting as a makeshift ladder, and the right half lying slack.
You're in a library in a scene once and are supposed to find 3 books that will contain hints for your further journey. Problem is, there are dozens of screen-filling book shelves and those books you search are in no way optically distinguishable from the others.
That was truly annoying.
Ha, that's the first illustrated example on tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PixelHunt
> There's one tiny area labeled "book" instead of "books" in this screen. Good luck finding it.
Oh, what a coincidence xD
But I really played that game.
At least half of it. I could never advance past the first floor of the Nazi castle.
I've heard the Indiana Jones game taking place in Atlantis is as good as the films.
17:29
Never played that one though, but maybe I have it laying around in some backup archive somewhere...
(Not Python related)
Is it ok to ask the question on Data Administration SE related to database choice based on the type of data one would be dealing with?
I guess it will be opinion based there as well :/
I'd say to ask in their chat, but most rooms outside of SO are ghost towns
First, check if their room is a ghost town. If not, ask. If, cry.
You are right. Except room "The Heapâ„¢ - Consultancy" (having last message of 6 hours back), rest of chat rooms are having the last message of around 7 days back :|
Seems like ether nobody is interested in databases or the people interested in databases don't get along well with each other...
Nice thing about ghost towns is that anyone that comes into that room for the next week will read your message. Once or twice I've gotten a reply 2+ days after the fact.
Looking at it that way, it's no worse than a busy room, assuming you're not in a hurry.
17:40
I am still in research phase, 2 days is fine if I know I will be getting some suggestion. But I doubt that I would be able to get that. Reason being: Hardly there would be any visitor. If there are any, there is a very less possibility that they would be having the idea of the databases I am interested in
Ohh wow. I just got the reply. May be it is not that bad
Huzzah!
cbg
@ByteCommander friend ported scummvm to work on Nokia 770.
Indiana Jones and the fate of atlantis was a bit difficult in that... in the unscrewing the bookcase, you could see where to click so no pixel hunt necessary, but the target area is 1 pixel :D
I think I remember hearing about that before. "I know precisely where to click, but my lousy '90s mouse can't move in single pixel increments"
Nokia... o.O?
@ByteCommander this was in 2006, and the friend was @IljaEverilä :D
(doxxed :D)
17:53
Well, but I played Indy and Gene Machine natively... :=D
@ByteCommander and the said nokia was a full-featured linux computer with touch display.
I guess ScummVM is an attractive target for porters, since you only need to get one program working and bam! You can play a hundred games.
Ah, ok. For me, "Nokia" immediately triggers the image of a phone like this in my brain:
Ah yes, the indestructi-brick.
Many games of Snake were had.
18:00
@Kevin *meny
cbg
this was my first cell phone
My current cellphone has been stuck in a boot loop for the past two days so I'm feeling real nostalgic for actual functional tech right now
I feel like such a youngin then, this was my first type of phone
@corvid This was my first too :D
Mr fancy with his phone that folds in half
18:11
This one for me:
@idjaw MINE TOO
5110, right?
The cool kids in school had the Motorola Razr or whatever it was called.
@AndrasDeak but the picture says 5190
18:13
@AndrasDeak either that or 5190
Yes. It was called Razr. It was the bomb!
then it didn't work and I brought it for warranty repair and they gave me a replacement for time being...
I had a phone that looked identical to the one idjaw posted, but I don't know what its version number was
my next one was what ByteCommander posted
18:14
@Kevin lol, an "ASSMUNG" phone xD
Then I went through two sony-ericsson phones
trying to remember which models
they gave me this when my phone was being repaired :')
@idjaw Walkman series?
@ByteCommander Yeah, I only noticed that on second read-through.
18:15
That's my first phone.
one was this:
z520a
the other one was worse than that model
Remember when phones had full keyboards? I'm so tired of predictive text.
what's predictive text?
;)
Or Swype or whatever kids are using these days.
and in my youth (heh. :|) I could write SMSes blind
18:16
What was the 'autocomplete' or predictive text called on pre-smartphone phones again?
drawing a blank
predictive text?
T9, innit?
yes
T9
oh, right
18:16
that's it
I loved it!
I hated it since day 1
always had it disabled since
you can practically text without even looking at the phone. Just centre your thumb on the 5 and go to town
First thing you did when you got a new phone. Disable T9.
haha...I loved it
that ---------------------------^
18:17
Yeah, most time when I was using T9, I spent teaching it words...
loooooved it
that's why ------------------------^
Andras, I'm ruining your messages.
you are -----------^
18:18
Texting blind was much easier without using T9.
But it's almost as annoying if you have words with consecutive letters on the same button, so that you have to wait that second or two until the previous letter is confirmed...
@ByteCommander use arrows
no, you can press downarrow
Finno-Ugric high five
18:19
recbg
Oh man I loved triple-tap texting
@AndrasDeak o/
Honestly texting while driving wasn't that bad with triple tap
it's these stupid smartphones that made everything dangerous
18:20
if there anything we should protesting these days it's to abolish smartphones
go back to T9
NO MORE INTERNET ON PHONES!
People got stupider as phones got smarter.
who's with me
there was a joke, someone had edited the pic of 3210 so that it only had the "nav key" or whatever they called it... and the accompanied text said that it has T1 predictive typing...
also the laws that mean we can't put our phone up and watch for traffic while we're texting
@idjaw Honestly if I had a nice flip phone with a decent camera and a wifi hotspot that's literally all I need.
@idjaw I can't keep an eye on my deer without a smartphone
18:21
I'd rather do everything else on my tablet/computer anyway
Many of you will probably appreciate this
@ChaoticTwist Nah, it's just easier to publicize one's stupidity.
@WayneWerner it's not really about where you're looking; it's about divided attention. People can't really multitask.
And why not just drive when you're driving?
what a concept eh?
18:25
@AndrasDeak Except 90% of driving isn't driving anyway. Though I'd be perfectly happy to accept studies that show that people of a certain age can't determine that they need to actually pay attention when stop light/signs are in the near future.
@AndrasDeak deer?
I want a maybech s600 and a driver. How much do you think that would run me? Any good deals out there?
I know many people, myself included, who have actually hypnotized themselves while driving (that, "wait a minute, how did I even get home? I hope I didn't run anyone over" feeling).
A lot of the time when I get home, I can't even remember how I got there. That's like, nonetasking.
I don't know any studies, but my subjective impression is that what people call multitasking is just juggling with your single attention between tasks. And when the juggle is such that you're concentrating on your phone, you're a deadly danger to whoever is on the road
only driving doesn't guarantee the driver's attention, but each thing that actively distracts the driver only makes things worse
18:27
fun fact: the original pitcher of SMS messages, the creator of IRC and the number one Python 3 ranter on Stack Overflow are graduates of the same university.
We're already deadly dangers - we adjust the radio, we check our hair, we read books...
@WayneWerner Same, but I console myself with the fact that I'd probably remember something truly novel happening, so it's not at all likely that I ran somebody over.
@WayneWerner your point being?:D
@Kevin ditto
18:27
putting phones on that list doesn't help
that people shouldn't be in charge of cars. And that putting phones on the list probably doesn't hurt that much, honestly.
If you can't multitask, perhaps consider task switching
@MarcusS But the risk of going down that road involves creating alternate timelines.
I think phones are just a convenient scapegoat. And yeah, it's also likely that some of the accidents wouldn't happen if smartphones were unavailable
@WayneWerner I know someone who got flashed for speeding while holding a burger in one hand and a soft drink in the other, steering with his knee...
18:31
my dad used to do that occasionally: driving down a slope, phone rings, pick it up with right and roll the window up with left:D
I drove all the way home with my knees one day. About 15 miles.
I think humans are just stupid, and sometimes it's okie to be stupid, but not while operating a several ton metal machine.
I'm the kind of person who likes to know where my limits lie. And if I'm in a situation where suddenly both of my arms are disabled and my throttle gets stuck, I would like to be confident that I can not kill people ;)
I'm just always impressed by this consistent ballet of near-death experiences that we're fine with on a daily basis
^I get amazed by this over here in NYC, where traffic is crazy and people are crossing streets / intersections constantly
^I'd like you to visit India someday :P
18:35
traveling at 45mph (72kph) a 20º drift into the other lane is the equivalent of driving into a brick wall at 90mph (144kph)
You get good at it after a while but it's amazing that there aren't more collisions
we move these murder machines around at such high rates of speed that we forget the insane amount of danger we're putting ourselves in.
Because after all, we're not the ones on our smartphones :D
And yet flying is perceived to be more dangerous. Talk about stupid brains.
people feel safer in a metal box
18:37
side note: when OP actually tries to solve his own problem but ends up with a 24 for loop... -WutFace-
@WayneWerner Germany does not even have an official speed limit on highways...
@Orange I think it's partly because people lose all control on a plane, and partly because when things go wrong on a plane, a lot of people die in a very cognitive-bias-inducing manner
@ByteCommander isn't that over now? Maybe just for foreigners?
Nope. There is no state-wide speed limit, but half of the highways have local speed limits.
General speed limits in Germany are set by the federal government. All limits are multiples of 5 km/h. There are two default speed limits: 50 km/h (31 mph) inside built-up areas and 100 km/h (62 mph) outside built-up areas. While parts of the autobahns and many other freeway-style highways have a posted limits up to 130 km/h (81 mph) based on accident experience, congestion and other factors, many rural sections have no general speed limit. The German Highway Code (Straßenverkehrsordnung) section on speed begins with the requirement which may be rendered in English: Any person driving a vehicle...
We even have a Wikipedia article about that xD
Oh, I didn't remember you were German, sorry
No problem. I wouldn't know where you'Re from either.
After all, I'm mostly lurking in here anyway, so I don't really expect you to remember much of me ;)
18:40
Grand tour were on about the autobahns, how you "could" go as fast as you want, but most don't or something like that
We even have a sign that indicates the end of all speed limits:
(Out of curiosity) how to add image in chat?
one-boxing: only post the link
just paste it
^ this is something I face everyday on my way to office :P
18:44
@MoinuddinQuadri serious question, what happens if you need to poop?
as far as stereotypes go, India is supposed to have one of the deadliest road cultures
My office is around 1.5 miles from my place and it takes me around 35-45 minutes to reach there
@MoinuddinQuadri You're a Bangalorean too? :P
well maybe not deadly, but insane:D
My office is 10' from my bedroom ;)
18:45
@MooingRawr Always do it (even if you do not feel like doing it) before you leave your home/office
@AndrasDeak Road culture doesn't exist here :D
@WayneWerner working home in a mansion?
@MoinuddinQuadri I meant like if you were in traffic, like you did it before but what if your stomach was having issues?
well, for certain values of mansion
@MooingRawr as far as stereotypes go... :D
18:47
@MooingRawr Don't go outside if you have upset stomach. (Wearing Huggies is another option; never tried it though)
Meh, my office/university is around 1:45h away from home using public transport...
@MooingRawr The way traffic moves here, you could just leave your car on the road, go find a place to do your business, come back and drive away.
And they mostly have additional delay of several minutes up to half an hour or just get cancelled quite often too.
Crazy..... I hate traffic.... Guess I'm never going to India/where ever that place is
@MooingRawr You'll love the German railways then. Feels like no traffic at all, especially when you would need to get somewhere...
18:49
That's mostly just true for Bangalore (a city in India).
Traffic in other places is not that horrendous.
@ChaoticTwist That pic was from Bangalore only ;)
@MoinuddinQuadri I know. I'm quite sure I travel on the same road everyday too :D
Some places are overcrowded, that results into traffic. The places which are less crowded don't have any rule (because there is no traffic police to impose them)
I wanna drive on the autobahn one day. Just go vroom vroom, but I doubt I would even break past 200-250 km/h
@MoinuddinQuadri why don't you walk to work/bike?
I use motor bike. But as you can see in the picture, there is hardly any place on the road to even walk. People over here don't follow lane. Road is usually zig-zag jammed
user6845426
18:53
Hello all :D
Excel has 1,048,576 rows.. The more you know
@MooingRawr More people are going that way these days, but there are no separate bike lanes for cyclists or proper pavements for pedestrians (there are in a few places but not in most places). So cycling/walking could get a little dangerous at times.
@MoinuddinQuadri Welp you single handedly convinced me never to visit India. Well you and Chaotic
user6845426
Can someone recommend a framework for creating GUIs?
What OS @dipper
user6845426
18:57
I'm running Mac OSX and using PyCharm
There's GTK which you can use glade to create the ui or tkinter
and QT, but i've not used qt so i can't comment on that

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