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15:00
Mmmm, you are even more pessimistic than me, idjaw
Not that far - it's 2.25bn hello worlds, from all the code schools
how many of those hello worlds went on to the loop chapter.
That's the real mystery!
Loads of them are still stuck there, having misunderstood the conditionals chapter previously.
These are the individuals we need to help.
morning cabbage all
15:04
morning Wayne!
uugggggh. For the last 30 minutes I've been doing things to figure out why something was wrong.
turns out letsencrypt/files/manuale-reqs.txt != letsencrypt/files/manaule-reqs.txt
how long does it take you to spot the difference?
found it
started tight as you posted
right
@WayneWerner booooo. I once got really frustrated at a unit test that was failing and I couldn't spot the difference. So I finally put it in to the interpreter to compare the two strings and just show me the diff....it was one frackin' character, similar to your string. high five.
This is why most syntax highlighting is wrong. Different variables should be different colors, not different syntax constructs.
Yeah I like that idea
15:07
+1
@KevinMGranger or the crockford colouring:
colour the variables based on the scope they belong to / were declared in
I think the hardest part of this one: n == u (flipped)
Oh yeah that's what I've read about before! Scope colours.
Old Crockers ain't not nobody's foo'
That's nice, but it matters more in js compared to other languages. Maybe a bit of both? Like color warmness based on scope but different colors within that range for each variable
15:08
crockford colouring
That's pretty slick. I like that idea. I wonder if there's a vim for that
wow that looks exotic
I think vim's color system is unseparable from its syntax system, but that wouldn't matter unless you use syntax folding
of course that could be coupled with using white or such for operators etc...
i dont think i like that. it tells you a lot of the structure, but if you want to know whats happening, i think it looses a lot of information
15:10
Since I read and write upside down the un thing is even trickier. I didn't figure out the actual problem was until I created myself a fnord.txt to see if that worked.
Then there's plan9's acme way of doing syntax highlighting:
"Why do you need that? That's distracting."
I have to go shopping today.....I don't want to interact with other Christmas shopping people.
I did this to myself....I guess I deserve it.
Shopping after November 20th is the worst
"negative transfer" -- TIL
15:11
@WayneWerner that reminds me of the TED talk about the guy who reversed his bike's handlebars. He couldn't ride a normal one after that. However, his young kids could switch back and forth easily due to the neuroplasticity of youth.
also why I avoided learning the Dvorak kb even though it was (is?) claimed to be a more efficient way to type
because lazy
My shopping was all finished a week ago, until yesterday when I was asked, "you got a gift for {relative}'s girlfriend, right?"
@KevinMGranger Pretty sure that's Destin from Smarter Every Day
15:13
I need to find a cheapo TV for the children's playroom.
@AnttiHaapala how's your timing now? Mine does 1.3 seconds wall clock together for part1-2
unless that's where he got the idea
"I guess you can get her a gift card, but it would be better to get one for {place at the mall that only sells gift cards at the mall, and not anywhere lower-traffic like Target or Wawa}"
If they shop online at all, Amazon gift card is useful to a lot of people
15:14
And that's the story of how Kevin was forced to go to the mall during the worst possible time to go to the mall
Interestingly enough, I actually tried crossing my hands and riding my bike. That's also crazy difficult
@AndrasDeak 2.85s user 0.06s system 99% cpu 2.924 total
@Kevin Oh. That can actually work out well. Because usually you can buy those at the information kiosks in the shopping mall, and they have a few of those scattered around. So the chances for smaller lines and easier exit is much higher than going in to <store>
but I think it might be easier than the backwards handlebar, though I'm kind of curious if it is.
Hmm. I can't help but feel we've brought up this exact topic before.
15:15
mine is generic. so I could also do the "skip number of elves by md5 hash" and it would have comparable runtime.
Unfortunately I don't have the dollars or the supplies to make my own weird bike, so I'm going to have to wait.
@Kevin Dollar bills - like gift cards that you can spend anywhere!
@WayneWerner It's more fun to confine the individual to one complex and tell them to choose within that big box.
and only that big box.
@KevinMGranger Deja Vu ;)
@AnttiHaapala and I think I can still speed up mine, didn't have time to do that yet:)
15:17
haha..>@AndrasDeak you have a hat!!!!
@AnttiHaapala but mine is special
15 hours ago, by Andras Deak
My issue is not the hats; it's the shitty behaviour the masses show during winter bash:P Does the button solve that too?
I hope that when everyone is disappointed by the gifts I got them, they remember that I'm chronically bad at doing things that should be simple for ordinary humans, and temper their emotions accordingly
I wasn't going to don a hat, but then I got a secret one
@AndrasDeak <3 <3 <3
If nobody cries, that's a win for me
15:18
I would recommend not buying them onions, then
Reminds me of Beer Vision Goggles (also holy crap expensive)
Or Phantom Menace
Interestingly enough when my judgement was not impaired, driving with the beer vision goggles actually wasn't that bad
It just required way more concentration and really messed with depth perception
@Kevin Make everyone a mix tape cd usb key youtube playlist....
from the <3
My friend made me a cd of him playing christmas songs on his otomatone. I can't wait to listen to it.
15:21
that's fantastic
Extra points for theming it after a non-Christmas event. Like Halloween.
First I have to find something that plays CDs.
good luck.
He could probably play Spooky Scary Skeletons by ear
last day of hats?
useless :8
niceee
got silver badge in python 3x
just in time for winterbash
Time to bring all of my artistic abilities to bear... "I made you a gif of a turtle"
15:27
what is this Uncle Kevin?
This is a link to my GitHub. It has all my animations. You're welcome.
I would have framed it, but you can't frame a gif. Well, you can if you buy one of those expensive digital frames, but I'm not willing to spend that much on you. I feel like this is going really well.
Here are a list of stores you can purchase your own digital frame at
Thanks Uncle Kevin......thanks.
You're welcome. And if you don't have the frame hung prominently somewhere in your home when I visit six months from now, I'm going to be quietly hurt. I won't say anything, but it will never be the same between us again.
and I will probably not buy you another gift, again.
The goal here is to have them not put it up.
If git had a "quick commit" option like skyrim has a "quick save" option, I feel like I'd be committing a lot more frequently
15:32
And there you have it. Your out to never buying another Christmas gift again
@corvid "one click commit". Amazon would be on that one hard.
they'd send a take down for that hehe
Maybe I could switch religions instead? I understand Hannukah also has gifts, but you can get away with giving socks and back-to-school supplies.
OH NO YOU DON'T!!!!!


Amazon introduces one click commit for GH. 8 new for 499.99$
@Kevin Yes. There are many others you can choose from that you can use as a reason for not partaking in the gift ceremony.
@corvid git config alias.save 'commit -a -m "did work"'
Happy solstice, here's a box of uncooked spaghetti
6
or...."Kevin where is the Christmas tree?"...."Why is there a stick where the Christmas tree should be?".....and why are we about to watch Seinfeld?
15:35
hmm
egghead
Me and papa Kevinson are already on board to switch to Festivus. The rest of the household won't listen to our proposal, however.
hmmm that doesn't look good, switched hats
antti haapala sat on a wall. antti haapala had a great fall. all the kings horses and all the kings men, made him do python 2.7 again.
@KevinMGranger Then I can just f5 to save, and f9 to quick load? As someone who did pickpocket and one-handed thief in skyrim, I would use that way too much
15:39
@Kevin That defiant behaviour should not be tolerated. It's time to get more serious about Festivus.
Wow, how did that message sit in here for so long?
Yes, good riddance, we don't need such inflammatory material in our room
Does that code even run?
@AndrasDeak now this is the first video made by a non-hungarian, that is cute, interesting, entertaining and straight up to point at the same time :)
15:50
"nouns have hordes of forms that put Latin to shame" :DD
@PeterVaro that's great, thanks:D
@Antti ^^
watching
@AnttiHaapala one of the comments under the video says:
> When I was on an Erasmus exchange in Finland, one of my professors told us why Hungarian and Finnish were similar. There once was a group of nomads that travelled through Europe. They once saw a signpost reading "to the south you will find great climate, good wines and plenty of peoples to pillage". Some of the nomads could read, and they became known later as Hungarians
genius ;)
:D
hahhah :d
15:52
hehe:D
but ofc we all know the two languages have nothing in common, yet it is a good one
the video guy needs to put larger emphasis on the first syllable, otherwise it would be really great (well, even really greater)
I have the utmost respect for anybody that tries to learn Hungarian
the only things that I have noted are similar between Hungarian and Finnish right now are: a) vowel harmony, b) agglutination for tenses, moduses, grammatical cases, c) some random words that are fewer than Finnish has in common with any other languages, which is almost as much as by accident, d) attributes in noun phrases match in case and number with the nouns
that's about it.
I do not understand a single word of Hungarian by knowing Finnish.
and viceversa
^^
15:55
although I loved how finnish sounded like
when I was in Helsinki
the only thing that I caught in the video was that the comparative ending was -bb, and in Finnish it is -mpi
both are bilabial sounds :P
that's it... it might as well be an accident
@AnttiHaapala if you just look at the numbers, it can be a statistical fluke, but come one, vesi/víz, kala/hal? When all the others use so different words?
Alright.....I'm heading out to interact with other humans during week-before-christmas.
In Russia they have countless uralic languages in which I can recognize loads of words...
If I don't come back, finish my AoC. Here is my GH password: *******
15:57
@AndrasDeak vietnamese for fish.
@idjaw take care
cheers
@AnttiHaapala I never said that we didn't come from Vietnam... ;D
@AnttiHaapala well it surely solves the camel vs snake case problems: instead of beautiful=0, more_beautiful=1, most_beautiful=2 it will be szep=0, szebb=1, legszebb=2
beautifuller, beautifullest
15:58
kaunis, kauniimpi, kaunein
beautifullerene
"kauniita unia" is one of the few things I know in Finnish
i had a very good friend, who's father was finnish and her mother was hungarian
@PeterVaro I vote for legszebblin=3
16:01
and she spoke both languages fluently
and she said the same as Antti, only a few words, maybe some other similar traits but that's all
@idjaw and = ja
cbg @TheOneWhoLikesToKnow
@RobertGrant ;)
16:02
@PeterVaro and the fact that always the first syllable is stressed, which makes it sound the same as Finnish to Anglo-Saxons
There are numerous regular sound correspondences between Hungarian and the other Uralic languages. For example, Hungarian á corresponds to Khanty o in certain positions, and Hungarian h corresponds to Khanty x, while Hungarian final z corresponds to Khanty final t. These can be seen in Hungarian ház ("house") and Khanty xot ("house"), or Hungarian száz ("hundred") and Khanty sot ("hundred"). Hungarian and Khanty are closely connected, either genealogically or as part of a language area. The distance between Hungarian and the Finnic languages is greater, but the correspondences are also regular...
hmm there are quite a many it seems
kusi:D
for row in reader:
                if barcode in row:
                    cost=float(row[2])
                    price=quantity*cost
                    total=total+price
                    receipt.append(barcode+'    '+row[1]+'    '+str(quantity)+'    '+row[2]+'    '+str(price))
                    numofitems=numofitems+1
                if barcode not in row:
                    receipt.append(barcode+'    '+'Product not found')
@AndrasDeak that's why it is so hard to make proper blues or jazz with vocals in hungarian and in finnish -- we are better at 1s-3s than 2s-4s :P
okay?:P
I'll take your word for it:D
16:04
i am trying to do something that it runs a block of code if the program if it does not find a value in csv file
but it doesn't work right now
kéz = käsi, I wonder if our Keszi tribe got their name from the hand?
can anyone help me since i don't know how to phrase the question
found_value_in_any_line = False
for row in reader:
    #do stuff with rows here...
    if some_value in row:
        found_value_in_any_line = True

if not found_value_in_any_line:
    #do thing here...
@AndrasDeak no seriously, the rythimic pulsation in english is 1 - 2 - 3 - 4, while for example the hungarian folk songs are all 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
@TheOneWhoLikesToKnow
16:06
@PeterVaro OK, but I don't speak musicish:P
fair enough
:P
@Kevin any reason to avoid for-else, aside from confusing a newcomer?
but yeah, Edward király, angol király. Léptet fakó lován...
His original code is basically equivalent to
my_list = [1,2,3]
for item in my_list:
    if item != 2:
        print("2 not found")
... And expecting it to only print "2 not found" if my_list doesn't contain 2
@KevinMGranger I wasn't sure if he wanted to keep iterating over the file even after finding the value.
In which case breaking once you find the value means you don't get to process the rest
Oh, true. numofitems seems to imply that
16:10
@Kevin thanks a lot, didn't think of that :)
But yeah for-else is fine if you're only looking for the thing
You could also do if any(value in row for row in reader):
@Kevin it needs to print a receipt at the end
(This is all assuming that you can check for the presence of the value using the in operator, which may or may not be the case depending on the structure of reader)
They also need the row itself, so that wouldn't help
do you want to see all of my code?
16:12
(Like, if row is ["foobar", "bazqux"]` and value is "foo", then value in row isn't going to evaluate to True)
while we're being linguistic, bazqux sounds like a euphemistic swear in Hungarian
16:25
so funny <3
I am listening to Karelian languages... the reason those are languages and not dialects of Finnish are just geopolitical...
serious question: what is the best way to convince someone to use a newer way of doing things, if they are already so accustomed to the old way?
none?
people like their workflows
any good reason why you want them to change?
unless you would find a way to make them think they found the new way themselves :)
@corvid we don't know. If we knew, you wouldn't be using mongo. Q.E.D.
The person must be stuck with old data in their opinions cache. Try turning them off and on again.
16:37
rb folks
Anyone got any secret hat?
@AndrasDeak what did you do? :D
I have absolutely no idea
the usual stuff: downvote and close and delete:P
I did upvote some fellow answerers, dunno if that matters
16:48
@AndrasDeak: Same here. Don't know how I got it. Was closing the questions and making comments :/
Which one you got? 6?
the one on my avatar
Superman :D :D
17:05
Part 2 is actually more fun to do with data structures for some reason :X
haha
anyway, speak for yourself;D
Did you go for the math approach?
sort of
not too much
experimental mathematics, so to say
17:16
is it considered okay to use reddit or twitter at work if it is legitimately for programming stuff? I always feel nervous using it
BigCorp's policy was "everyone uses the Internet for personal purposes and everything we tried to stop it didn't work, so just... Try to keep it from becoming a Problem, ok?"
(My reply: "no can do, BigCorp")
DSM
DSM
17:32
Mountain Standard cabbage for all!
17:50
rhubarb
@corvid threaten to fire them if they don't?
DSM
DSM
18:08
@MarcusS: FWIW I used a skiplist for part 2, mostly for nostalgia.
Hey
how can I do sorted loop with array that looks like this

array = [[1,object],[10,object],[4,objectt]]
if like to do
for item in sorted(array[0]):
print item
<< [x,xx]
I guess I need to use lambda...
:- (
but no idea how
@Dariusz
yes?
18:14
from operator import itemgetter
for item in sorted(array, key=itemgetter(0)):
or... using a lambda:
for item in sorted(array, key=lambda item: item[0]):
amazing
thank you!
in sorted - key stands for the item I sort by ?
yea, sort of
mm thanks
You don't necessarily need a key at all.
>>> seq = [[4, "baz"], [1, "foo"], [100, "bar"]]
>>> for x in sorted(seq):
...     print(x)
...
[1, 'foo']
[4, 'baz']
[100, 'bar']
yeah I tried that but if second item is class/object then I was getting crash of some sorts
DSM
DSM
18:18
You could get an error if you have the same first element and the second element doesn't implement comparison, I guess.
You could implement __lt__ for your class, but at that point you may as well just use lambda/itemgetter.
DSM
DSM
Depends on whether the OP cares about what happens in case of ties or not, and only the OP knows..
@holdenweb Thanks! it's a clever idea with compression.
18:40
comprehension? ;-) Feel free to use it if it helps.
OK rhubarb, all. Going home while Amazon takes a snapshot of my volume, then have to restore it to a new volume and resize it.
DSM
DSM
Rhubarb for holdenweb!
@DSM I went about it this way: Day 19, both versions -- I imagine it's probably pretty similar?
A CTO's work is never done. One day, I swear, I'll "have people for that"
what's the purpose of your work? as CTO?
18:54
here http://pastebin.com/x4wXce3E
i have done here for few letters('d','s') can someone tell me way that how do i do it for all words available in string ?
for character in set(my_string):?
If by "word" you mean "letter"
Incidentally the line sorted(data,key=data.get,reverse=True) doesn't do anything
chars maybe
for letter in set(data): prob_let.append(data[letter] / len(s)) ?

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