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wim
wim
18:01
@Kevin agree
@Kevin The package maintainer clearly wanted to support Python 3.5. And generally, closed issues are the ones that were solved. Of course, this one was solved too because "look! I created my personal project and shared it on HN and Python-Ideas mailing list (who know why) and in case you missed it, I'm posting the link again. Is it not obvious that I don't need to keep the improvement request in your project open?"
@wim I'm pretty sure most of those people (or their teachers) are unaware of the difference between stdlib and third party modules
"import pandas for your csv read" vs "import csv for your csv read" are a huge difference
As a parallel argument, doesn't opening an issue imply some assumption of responsibility in resolving it? Even if it's just looking at proposed solutions and saying "yep, this resolves the issue". If the original issue opener no longer uses the project and wants to wash his hands of the matter, then he might want to abdicate that responsibility by closing the issue. Then someone else with a more vested interest can re-assume the responsibility by reopening it.
wim
wim
Further, you sound a bit peevey in that thread @vaultah. Yury's reply to you was correct and polite: "Feel free to reopen the issue if you need it".
18:03
Yury's great, I get it
uh-oh, Slavic clash detected:P
One could argue that Yury ought to have signed off saying something like "I'm closing this issue because it no longer affects me" rather than closing it with no justification. As you say, this can produce some confusion - readers might think that the issue is now resolved for good, when it really isn't.
@wim In any case, I'm not interested in continuing this discussion, sorry.
But this seems like a lack of clear communication than a cut-and-dry ethical problem
wim
wim
@vaultah :)
18:05
Everyone's using Git for their Advent code except me.
Where's the Mercurial support?!
wim
wim
mercurial too slow :P
I'm wondering if I should add mine and whether I should facelift my answers before I do that
I thought about following your lead and using bitbucket, but I didn't know if I needed an account or what, and even trying to determine whether I needed an account was more work than firing up a new gist.
@Kevin pretty sure you can log in to BitBucket with GitHub.
@vaultah But yeah, posting a link to his competing project is a tad skeevy.
18:07
Oh, they're phasing out everything but email and Google.
I don't have a strong feeling here about who's in the right or whatever. I just want to analyze things from multiple points of view, since that's basically my job
rbrb, going for a walk
wim
wim
but saying you "can't like uvloop because of its creator" is petty imo
like it or not on the merits of the code
Yeah, I try to separate the conduct of the author from the content of their creations. Otherwise, I couldn't enjoy Earthworm Jim, Linux, or FEZ.
18:11
anyhow, sorry for dragging this here
wim
wim
oh, some of the stuff Linus has said .... :D
Linus as the prime self-proclaimed Finnish asshole?:D
wim
wim
Mauro Andras, SHUT THE FUCK UP!
@AndrasDeak wat? who am I then?
18:13
But I love the guy:D Granted, I know very few specifics of his assholy actions.
@AnttiHaapala secondary self-proclaimed Finnish asshole? Sorry, man.
he's not an asshole, he's just a Finn
wim
wim
what's the difference? ;)
cultural gap?
Right, added my AoC2016 repo to the list
I see the spirit of Linus has possessed wim... I'll get the holy water.
18:13
not all asshole's are Finns?
we're only distant relatives
wim
wim
hahahaa
@wim Reminds me of:
18:14
The power of Stallman compels you!
^tr/'//d
zdrastvui
I wanna play games but my internet sucks :(
Stallman > Linus
wim
wim
18:26
who posted that sega coding vid? amazing!!
and yes, Mauro is WRONG.
that changes nothing
@AnttiHaapala thank you, kind sir
@wim Peter Varo, I think
@khajvah the ENOENT from ioctl is analogous to...
wim
wim
anyone notice the guy has a Sonic the hedgehog tattoo sleeve ... lmao
18:28
@AnttiHaapala I don't understand. I meant, it doesn't matter if he is wrong or not
@wim envious much?
wim
wim
totally
also, what a lovely accent (northern?) - are there any brits here who can guess where the accent is from ?
@khajvah I am thinking for an example from pythonland
I am gonna update my profile description to "webscale node.js/mongodb developer"
self-shaming
just kidding, I don't hate any tech:D
18:30
even PHP?
nope
I don't know anything about it, a bandwagon is not enough reason for me to hate anything
Antti doesn't hate any tech as well
wim
wim
debugger: "dbooger" LMAO
@АндрейБеньковский капуста
18:32
damn, you know the secretz
@khajvah I know much darker secrets. Tell me. Does a line Clipboard.SetText("<b>bold</b>", TextDataFormat.Html) look innocent to you? Note: it's C#, Windows Forms.
"I am using SQLite." Tagged: mysql :-|
wim
wim
Yeah. It's my sqlite, bro.
18:37
@khajvah something like "I've made b'123' + 42 now raise UnicodeDecodeError instead of TypeError. Only one stupid program broke, guess they just have to fix their shit"
wim
wim
thx
We're not bros, buddy.
@AnttiHaapala that's not a reason to be a Fin about.
wim
wim
you're all my stackbros
@khajvah of course it is
18:39
OK, judging by that single e-mail, Linus was perfectly right
I like the sound of "StackOverbros" for some reason
@khajvah if that is not a reason to curse someone who is supposed to know better, then I don't know what is?
@davidism I'm using mysqlite
@AnttiHaapala I dunno, like calling Python 3 non-Turing complete?
It's my sqlite. It's my personal computer, so it's mine.
18:40
@khajvah that is less.
@khajvah we're talking about the likes of Python core devs here.
@wim When I first saw that, I was like, "what, a homework question? Probably CV tim...ooooh, code golf"
*"It's a bug alright - in the kernel. How long have you been a
maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel
maintenance?

If a change results in user programs breaking, it's a bug in the
kernel. We never EVER blame the user programs. How hard can this be to
understand?"*
wim
wim
Yeah, that's "Please do my homework, Martijn". Easily confused.
great guy
@AnttiHaapala you are emotional about software
18:42
@khajvah it is a quote
I know
software never makes me emotional. Only assholes writing it :d
5
but you didn't quote "shut the fuck up" part
"Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!"
here
@khajvah this is the original place for the error. ENOENT is not a documented return value from ioctl.
@AnttiHaapala you are talking to soon-to-be node.js developer
let's talk about starbucks and how good the new Macbook touchbar is
18:45
sorry, can't participate in that
wim
wim
touchbar is awesome, especially love the modestly priced ESC key dongle sold separately
That's my stack over bros
wim
wim
stackoverbros before stackoverhoes dawg
@wim I have 13 dongles for function keys and esc
love them like my babies
18:49
I've got 13 dongles but a shift ain't one.
cbg
sup andras?
nothing much
you?
too bad :(
18:50
how so?
cbg @Sami
o/ wayne
@AndrasDeak just try to anwer Q & help users
and keep in rad room
@Sami that sounds depressing
yep no one need my room lol
Who else has a secret shame that they practically have no clue about IPv6?
18:53
I know it means we can have lots of them, and it uses hex.
@WayneWerner it has 5 dots colons in it, doesn't it? <-- that's a "me except I have no shame"
@WayneWerner not me
That is the extent of my knowledge.
IPv6?
MURICANS!
18:54
it's not work
just v4
@WayneWerner so what do you want to know about IPv6 but never dared to ask? :D'
@AndrasDeak I'm delighted that you mistook . for :. Or the other way around. Technically that'd be 10 dots, right? :D
sort of, yes:D
maybe there's a jackass teaching that ipv6 is difficult and confusing, so we should all stick to ipv4
@AnttiHaapala when will it become a standard? :)
it is a standard
@WayneWerner hem, up to 7 colons
18:56
it's not the standard
it is a standard, STFU mauro
@AnttiHaapala I was just nmaping my network via nmap 192.168.1.0/24 because I read that incantation somewhere, and I have no clue what the 0/24 bit meant, which reminded me that I have little clue about IPv6
that rounds to 192.168.1.0
18:57
/24 is the network mask. Originally IP used classful internet routing.
@WayneWerner I had a lecture about it a month ago, still didn't learn
it's supposed to be not understood
@AnttiHaapala then the marxists attacked?
networks 1-126 were class a, then 128-191 were class B and beyond that class C
@AndrasDeak exactly.
class A networks had 24 bits, class B networks 16 bits and class C networks 8 bits
then someone came up with the idea that all this just doesn't make sense and they decided that we need to use varying length prefixes instead
when you say bits...
what does that mean in the context of the IP address?
and came up with the /N notation where the /N tells how many bits there are in the network part
19:00
It's just like tar command in linux, you should google every time you use it
an IPv4 address is 4 octets, 32 bits total
or is that not where the bits have meaning?
@WayneWerner 192.168.1.0 is not an IP address. It is a human-readable representation of an IP address
@khajvah I've had tar -xvzf and tar -cvzf memorized after 1 year of use
@AndrasDeak I installed "dtrx" which does it for me
19:01
softie
@khajvah I just remember the mnemonic "eXtract Ze Files"
@WayneWerner 0xC0A80100
that's your IPv4 address; store that as a big-endian number
tar xf filename is all you need. not even a dash
@KevinMGranger does it work for gz?
and if it's a gzip?
19:02
Yep, at least for gnu tar. It detects it.
who uses that anyway
oh I thought you meant "at least for tar files", sorry
z for gzip, j for bzip2
so

In [16]: 0xC0A80100
Out[16]: 3232235776

?
v if you want spam
@WayneWerner convert every pair of chars
19:03
-v is typically the verbosity
@WayneWerner that's the actual IP address...
or ...
[0xC0,0xA8,0x01,0x00], right?
>>> '{:b}'.format(0xC0A80100)
'11000000101010000000000100000000'
-v for somewhat verbose -vvvvv for every possible thing
In [17]: bin(0xC0A80100)
Out[17]: '0b11000000101010000000000100000000'
@WayneWerner that has 32 bits. From that, /24 tells that the network part is 24 first bits
and remaining bits are for the hosts in that network.
19:05
oooh. So then it should spin through the rest of bits?
2 host values are reserved: all bits 0 are reserved for the network itself
and all bits 1 is the broadcast address that is received by all nodes
# So this is the network?
In [20]: '{:b}'.format(0xC0A80100)[:24]
Out[20]: '110000001010100000000001'
note to self, dont starve yourself for a late lunch and then order a baked rice dish.
In [26]: hex(int('{:b}'.format(0xC0A80100)[:24], 2))
Out[26]: '0xc0a801'
wim
wim
there should be a less verbose way of specifying maximum verbosity than the overly verbose -vvvvv
19:09
Here's hoping Firefox 50.0.2 is better than its predecessor.
Was 50.0.1 exceptionally disappointing?
Not sure, I jumped from 50.0.0 to 50.0.2 just a few minutes ago.
Just spent five minutes looking at a blank page with a spinny loading icon, on a page which had already been loaded, which I'm sure of because I was reading it ten minutes ago.
Ah, electrolysis woes
Got fed up, closed it, opened FF again, got the "installing updates" window. Good riddance to ye, two-versions-old version.
Never trust a version number that ends with too many zeroes. Smacks of "we just pushed out a lot of features that had zero QA in real-world environments"
@WayneWerner yea
19:16
@Kevin why don't they just hire QA that surfs the web all day
so the IP stack is really doing some simple bitwise masking. It builds a subnet mask by setting there the first 24 bits to 1 and rest to 0
Maybe they do. I'm speaking from a place of anger right now so you can't depend on me to fact-check.
@WayneWerner in your case, the network number is also 0xC0A80100, and netmask is 0xFFFFFF00
so when given an address like 0xC0A80123 the IP stack can and it with 0xFFFFFF00, if result is 0xC0A80100 - "yeah it is in my segment", if not, "ah not here, I guess I'll throw that at my default gateway router"
19:20
ah. That makes a lot of sense
same thing still works in IPv6
    inet 192.168.1.67  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.1.255
that's the /24 written the other way in the middle.
wowow who stars my every post?
@AnttiHaapala There are just a lot more bits - so either we'd have 12 groups if we wanted to remember 0-255, we use hex so we only have to remember 6 groups?
@WayneWerner there are 8 groups
but 3 things make it easier:
If by "remember" you mean "fine, I'll set up DNS"
first, any leading zeroes in a group can be omitted.
19:24
@KevinMGranger You mean dhcp? Or IPs of people on the internet at large? :P
second: you can replace one run of all zero groups by ::
Both, I guess.
@WayneWerner you don't need dhcp with ipv6
Although with IPv6, DHCP is less necessary because of stateless autoconfig
yea
so the host will submit a message to "all-routers" address
19:27
@AnttiHaapala So in fe80::42:e0ff:febb:3c6 there are 5 groups, so does that mean it's actually fe80:0000:0000:0000:0042:e0ff:febb:03c6?
@WayneWerner yes
@AnttiHaapala the /24 is equivalent with that netmask, right?
@AndrasDeak yes
cool, thanks
*so if the host isn't configured, it will multicast to "all-routers" for router solicitation
19:29
/me has learned much more about IPv6 now ;)
and a router answers and says: "our prefix is this"
the host can generate a globally unique ipv6 address from this by appending the MAC into the prefix.
That's crazy/interesting
fe80::1a5e:fff:fe39:de15
that is also formed like that
wim
wim
@Kevin compare get_digit_sequence and decode (!) Zen of python #13
ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff:uuuu:uuuu
19:31
compare it with my wifi mac address 18:5e:0f:39:de:15
back on the /24 part... so does that mean it's going to scan from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.254.254?
I presume so :P
Also, let's appreciate that facebook has the whole face:b00c prefix
@AndrasDeak that should be f712u ;)
Why isn't 24 bits the first 3 numbers?
and why 254 and not 255?
19:33
@wim Great minds think alike ;-)
@KevinMGranger they don't
host -t AAAA www.facebook.com
www.facebook.com is an alias for star-mini.c10r.facebook.com.
star-mini.c10r.facebook.com has IPv6 address 2a03:2880:f10a:83:face:b00c:0:25de
Actually, did you do AoC 2015? I think I may have stolen the "store coordinates as complex numbers" from you last year.
I was close
is AoC challenging?
wim
wim
No, I didn't know about it last year
19:34
Now that I think about it, even they wouldn't have that many IPs
@khajvah that's what they say
the first two so far are easy but fun
Why do I feel like I plagiarized a badger in the distant past, then...
but it's said to become incrementally more and more difficult
I am too lazy to last
It's not a sensation that can be easily confused for something else.
19:35
@Kevin *badgerized
bagiarised?
You burglarize from badgers. You plagiarize from platypuses.
wim
wim
plagiar plagiar plagiar plagiar plagiar plagiar plagiar FILE SUIT FILE SUIT
@khajvah not so far
Stahp, stahp, cease and desist.
@wim A Ceeeeease! Desiiiiist!
19:39
2 golden star, i feel special today! lol....... stupid order of operation got me looking for like close to 20 minutes... it's always the small little type-o type bugs ><
You pilfer from pythons. You abscond from anacondas.
I fretted over order of operations for a while myself because I didn't know if 1+1j was, like, considered a single complex integer literal, and would inadvertently cause 1+1j*10 to equal 10+10j
But no, it's 1+10j.
need to learn how to github properly one of these days
Conversely, 2e3**2 is not equal to 4e9.
@MooingRawr do you even git, bro
19:44
I do at work, but all I do is pull commit and push stuff...
the rest of git goes over my head, i don't really know how to set anything up or anything beyond pulling pushing and commiting
wim
wim
I just added WTFPL to my repo, so nobody can plagiarize me anymore! mwahahaha
how do you make a folder in a repo!?!?!?!?!
that's a thing?!?!?!?!! o.o
I'd start with Tom Preston-Werner's git parable
i should go google that
19:46
@MooingRawr you don't
Git doesn't track folders, only files
wim
wim
whoah, github actually autodetected it as a license!!
@khajvah it can be
folders are a byproduct of files living in them
k im confused but okie ill go google stuff
@khajvah I've done ~100 project euler tasks, and AoC was easier...
19:47
I wish I would've had that when I started out with git
it gives you a good foundation
ill read it in between my compiles
ty
though I also recommend coming back to it after you seriously hork things up ;)
(that's a when, not if, with git)
Also I recommend seriously horking things up in a test repo so you don't hurt anything important
figure out how to lose commits, break merging, and all that jazz
wim
wim
any sublime text users here?
<-
what up wim
wim
wim
how do I rectangle select with the mouse ?
19:50
I just use git-gui because I can't be bothered to remember any textual command that's more than eight characters long
When you know which side of git to hold, and which side will blow your foot off, you'll be a lot happier
I'll just press the shiny friendly buttons, thanks
That's often a great way to end out breaking something ;)
Well, I suppose if you only use Github's gui
wim
wim
noooooo
@wim isn't it alt or shift or control and drag?
maybe some combination?
wim
wim
19:51
seriously?
shift + right click hold
@wim
sorry i forgot they made that a thing, was still use to beta sublime text
wim
wim
oh, shift + right click was it. profit!
gold star for you edamame man
i find sublime text easier to understand than git ...
I'm a very big fan of learning the common features of editors, like swapping lines, block select if they've got it...
that's 3 gold stars yay i feel uber special today
@WayneWerner that's why im in love with sublime, u can compile off it, u can write your own plug in, override stuff... it's the linux of text editors
19:53
That way it doesn't matter if I'm using someone's blessed Vim, or emacs, or IntelliJ, or Notepad++, or sublime, or or or or
the only downside is custom syntax highlighting is really annoying to make
@MooingRawr I think you need some reeducation...
;)
@WayneWerner linux terminals (at least gnome) know ctrl+clickdrag for block select
Yeah, Terminology does ctrl+clickdrag. It can resize the block, too, which is nice
has a couple of handles on either side of the block
19:59
nice:)
You can do it on iTerm2 with what, ctrl+alt+clickdrag? I don't know, but it's in my muscle memory :D
cmd used to have block select, before I switched laptops and OSes... I wonder if there's a keyboard shortcut to reenable it.
is there a way to convert a normal function to an async def in 3.5? I'm giving up on 2.7 and tornado

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