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21:00
A regular square is a fractal because you can construct it from four smaller squares.
A line segment is a fractal because you can construct it from two smaller line segments
oh no. oh please no. my coworker just wrote a python script
@wim I don't think we're on the same wavelength here
I don't think he's written python before
diffusion limited aggregation produces gorgeous stochastic fractals, which are not strictly self-similar
wat, which room is this, what language are you guys talking, I do not understand a word :P
21:02
math
the language is math.
wim
wim
@AndrasDeak that looks like it has self-similarity to me
@wim roughly yes, hence "not strictly self-similar"
we can argue how long this can be stretched
wim
wim
the statement you objected about never said strictly self-similar
I'm not disagreeing with you, yet, but still waiting to see a counter-example.
DSM
DSM
Ooh, did I miss some mathy bits?
I'm not certain there is one, I just find it highly-nontrivial. My main point is that fractal nature shoud be defined in terms of fractal dimension, not self-similarity
21:04
Wikipedia:
A fractal is a mathematical set that exhibits a repeating pattern that displays at every scale. It is also known as expanding symmetry or evolving symmetry. If the replication is exactly the same at every scale, it is called a self-similar pattern. An example of this is the Menger Sponge.[1] Fractals can also be nearly the same at different levels.
it could be a corollary that fractals are more or less self-similar, but I don't think this should be a given:)
so if the definition is that it exhibits a repeating pattern ... then...
@AnttiHaapala then wikipedia
what's the reference?
I'm arguing about a random.choice(very common misconception,fact)
I've been trying to google "non-self-similar fractals" and the like since we started with this topic, but there's an odd lack of results
either means that nobody knows, nobody cares, or I'm wrong (not saying that the last one is the least likely)
maybe I should ask on Stack Overflow
wim
wim
I was wrong once ...
welcome to the club
DSM
DSM
What's it like?
21:07
@wim I once thought that I was wrong... well, later I discovered that I was wrong about being wrong.
My only negative personality trait is my excessive humility.
wim
wim
@AnttiHaapala :D I had thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was right after all
I don't object to being wrong about this, but I seriously think that fractals would/should be defined by dimensionality. But then Hilbert curve, so I have to think about this
the maximum-likelihood statement right now seems to be wim's "no simple definition for a fractal", we have duck typed fractals
A square is self-similar and has dimension 2 (h/t Kevin), so does the Hilbert curve, yet only the latter quacks like a fractal
no, wait, I know!
the square has a well-defined Lebesgue measure, but the Hilbert curve doesn't!
BOOM, measure theoried
wim
wim
It is not necessary to formalise everything
So how about "stuff that have a well-defined Hausdorff dimension that doesn't coincide with the topological dimension"
@wim D: YOU DIDN'T
wim
wim
21:13
I did
For example, if you really drill a mathematician about what is a number
you're on my list
wim
wim
eventually they will try to tell you that a number is some set-like structure
and the simplest atom is the empty set
sure, cardinalities and whatnot
wim
wim
and arithmetic is ultimately done with the axioms of ZFC
and alephs and other Hebrew characters
wim
wim
21:14
sure, you can formalise numbers like that if you want
@wim now you go and say "C", you're crazy man, crazy
wim
wim
but it is not useful outside of academic context
human beings will understand the concept of numbers first through things like counting
and then through things like measuring distances
I perfectly agree, but I live in an academic context:D And we started talking about definitions of fractals, which is sort of inherently an academic context
otherwise I agree
wim
wim
it is not necessary to formalise what is a number for numbers to be useful
and likewise, it is not necessary to formalise what you mean when you call something a fractal
but if you start saying stuff like "all numbers smell green", you need to have a clear notion of numbers on the resolution of your statement
wim
wim
21:17
you can also formalise numbers and arithmetic in other systems, you don't necessarily need to use set theory
trying to draw a clear line in the sand and say "these things are fractals" and "these things are not" helps who exactly?
my point is that if I object to the claim that "fractals are self-similar", I should have a sufficiently specific notion of fractals (which I do), and if we discuss my dismay, we need to discuss the definition
otherwise my dismay is meaningless/nonsense (which it can still easily be)
I'm done, you can come back now
21:49
I've finally gotten around to read the the security-related article Wayne posted, really interesting
duct tape and baling wire everywhere
wim
wim
I read about halfway through then got annoyed with the loud web design and quit
Will be glad when that style of UX goes out of fashion ..
yeah, that's very distracting
there was also a "top highlight" as if I had difficulties reading
wim
wim
It's almost easier to read like this: view-source:medium.com/message/everything-is-broken-81e5f33a24e1#.cmgyxdaxi
"almost"
wim
wim
22:02
oh, chat doesn't markup the view-source: as part of the url. self.fail()
what about [like this](view-source:medium.com/message/everything-is-broken-81e5f33a24e1)
grrrrrrr
heh
it doesn't like you
wim
wim
the feeling is mutual
Read carefully in case you miss a step
22:18
gotta love those:D
wim
wim
22:31
1
Q: parse sql queries in python

ayonpythI want to be able to take an string like below and pull out the first parameter (id) and then use that to print it out. I have been looking into split for python, but I usually have to split 2 or 3 times before getting something usable. Here is an example of what is in e: EntryError(u"(sqlite3...

user is trying to parse SQL from an exception instance
@wim please read the room rules
wim
wim
answer suggests regex
haha:D
that doesn't sound like something you'd want to do, does it?
wim
wim
It's like, OP has fallen in a well. Another user has thrown down a shovel and shouts "keep digging"!
OK, that was my impression
wim
wim
22:33
walk away alecxe, just walk away ...
23:23
good night
wim
wim
23:34
scoping fun
>>> v = 'val'
>>> {'key': locals().get('v')}
{'key': 'val'}
>>> {'key': locals().get(v) for v in 'v'}
{'key': 'v'}
>>> {'key': locals().get('v'+ s) for s in ''}
{}
What's that
Hey
Has anyone else had issues with pyInstaller?
I keep getting this error when trying to run the compiled exe:
C:\Users\jammerxd\Desktop\VEXDisplayServer\dist>VEXSERVER
WARNING: file already exists but should not: C:\Users\jammerxd\AppData\Local\Temp\_MEI43482\include\pyconfig.h
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
File "c:\python27\lib\site-packages\PyInstaller-2.1-py2.7.egg\PyInstaller\loader\pyi_importers.py", line 270, in load_module
exec(bytecode, module.__dict__)
File "C:\Users\jammerxd\Desktop\VEXDisplayServer\build\VEXSERVER\out00-PYZ.pyz\wx", line 22, in <module>
23:52
I think your problem is in your code
What code?
the setup?
the actual application?
(the application runs fine in IDLE)
and nowhere in my application do I access FrozenImporter
Can't help you :D

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