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00:18
@tristan Mine is after the authentication. Needing to gather specific types of data with respect to the type of client <thing> that needs to be configured
user559633
Hm. So it's ends up missing more params for the request? Does it error out or just return a partial response?
oh it fails completely
500
user559633
Oh, interesting. Yeah, I'd probably have the backend respond with why it failed. Maybe not a big deal or good idea if you have a lot of hands on the project and the API changes really often though.
user559633
I'm pretty big into keeping the relevant debugging info with the rejection response for reasons of late-night pages
A friendly response would have been wise, yes. The A-ha moment is when I found the KeyError in one of the logs once I put the tcpdump in the docker container
user559633
00:22
Sorry, to be clear, I'm not finger wagging, I'm trying to open conversation
oh yeah totally
user559633
my social skills are more like social...i signed up for the e-course and forgot about it
heheh....fwiw, I didn't get any negative vibe from what you were saying
Looking at how I would help future similar problems like this from happening again would be to provide better responses from the middle service that the other two sources talk to.
user559633
you'll like this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/40033066/run-a-python-application-script-on-startup-using-linux

how do i run a script at startup "startup + cron"

... :/
user559633
and got voted up for some perverse reason
00:27
Discovery of today: Ice cream is high calorie for a reason. The "healthy" stuff is NASTY. As in, just threw out a full pint after eating 2 pints bad.
How's everyone else's day been?
I had to use tcpdump today and am still at work (leaving very soon) :)
user559633
i'm about to eat some pizza, drink beer, and watch brooklyn 99
how about you? I take it the icecream binge means it wasn't great
@tristan changing pizza for whatever is at home, but that is my exact plan when I get home
Oh, it's alright. I just really like ice cream. :P
I used to work at a dairy queen
00:30
Oooo, is there a new Brooklyn 99?
Stayed home all day because I was feeling sick.
user559633
Season 4!
And I'm going away on Monday for a couple days, so I wanted to be better before then. :P
user559633
:( feel better
user559633
i'm going to stop computering. have a good night
later tristan
00:31
It's just a little cold, just wasn't willing to risk it. I used the pretense of not wanting to infect co-workers.
Later, Tristan.
@MorganThrapp I think I'm coming down with something too
might take tomorrow off. Had two really long days at work
and will probably have to do more tonight
I really want to see this passing in the CI
I'll probalby end up logging back on here a little later since I have a few things to write up tonight.
later for now :)
Sounds much more productive than playing video games and eating soup all day. :P
Later, idjaw!
00:49
cbg
01:20
well that was faster than expected
hey hey @tristan I saw that. Go back to not-interneting
user559633
01:45
@idjaw heh, answered a question and regret it.
user559633
02:20
what's up corvid
user559633
and cbg Holly
02:54
For some reason I never noticed the mouse over text for comments said this:
> Use comments to ask for more information or suggest improvements. Avoid answering questions in comments.
avoid answering questions in comments
Remove the comma at this line: number = number // i,. That comma at the end of the line is creating the tuple. — idjaw 12 mins ago
woops
:P
 
3 hours later…
05:40
cbg
@idjaw this is inevitable since we tend to avoid answering off-topics in a's
ah. I was wondering why I wasn't noticing a difference between raise and raise from e
53
A: Python exception chaining

phihagException chaining is only available in Python 3, where you can write: try: v = {}['a'] except KeyError as e: raise ValueError('failed') from e which yields an output like Traceback (most recent call last): File "t.py", line 2, in <module> v = {}['a'] KeyError: 'a' The above ex...

so, what cases in python 3 would you need to make sure you are explicitly using from e?
@idjaw When you're explicitly wrapping underlying exceptions to a more manageable set of exceptions?
So that the user of a library can catch a set of exceptions that is well defined, instead of anything thrown by what the library uses.
A bit of a semantic difference though, since both implicit and explicit chaining get the job done
That makes sense. But it seems that without the chaining you can still get that chained exception
explicitly not doing raise MyException from e
But In my eyes implicit chaining should be left for what it says: "in case the exception handling failed" vs. "I want to wrap this exception"
So if you see "During handling of the above exception," you know that the exception handling itself failed when it should not have
Vs. "The above exception was the direct cause " and you know that the exception has been wrapped
I might be oversimplifying it though
06:18
nono, well understood what you were saying. I think I'm curious as to what decides a chained exception will be shown as opposed to not when you don't specify from
Ah, I misunderstood you completely then
all good. fwiw, your reasoning is exactly why I wanted to use from e in my test in the first place :)
So if you don't specify from and your exception handler or finally clause raises a new exception, you get the implicit __context__ chaining
vs. __cause__ with from
@idjaw simple:
you raise from, you get explicit chaining (direct cause)
you raise in an except block, you get "during handling, another was raised"
you never get the direct cause implicitly
right and explicit, you get, the above exception was the direct cause for the following exception (or along those lines)
06:33
thus raise Exception is wrong in python 3 in except block
it should be raise from None or raise from previous e
# bad
except SomeException e:
    raise MyException from e

# good
except SomeException e:
    raise from e
^^ is that what you are saying?
I know the latter is syntactically incorrect. Just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying.
raise from e would be an interesting construct, if valid :P
The exception was the direct cause of itself?
@idjaw lol
@idjaw raise ... from e, happy?
MUCH
or raise ... from None
but this is yet. another. reason. why. we. need. to. kill. python. two.
now: ACTION!
06:45
current tox file -> envlist = py34, py35
I'm doing my part
I loved that movie
Leaving a note for future self: 3 essential papers to read to understand software development. The New New Product Development Game, Royce's 1970 Waterfall, Iterative and Incremental Development: A Brief History
me too, and then hated the people who said "I don't like it because it is too militaristic"
@IljaEverilä @idjaw a Slashdot comment was lost; presumably the user was deleted or so... fortunately I had copied it into stack overflow chat, so now if you google it, my comment is the only match in the entire internuts.
Mar 29 at 11:13, by Antti Haapala
"The problem is not in "Agile" methodology.

The problem is in "Mongolian Clusterfuck" methodology, called "Agile" by managers who think "Mongolian Clusterfuck" isn't catchy enough.

Agile sets short reachable targets, and reiterates and modifies them upon reaching them. The cycle is 2-4 weeks.

Mongolian Clusterfuck is similar, but the cycle is 2-4 hours and the targets that haven't been reached are abandonned half-finished.

Agile has specs that accept modifications when the customer requests them. Mongolian Clusterfuck has specs that change every time your boss stops by.
this one
I remember that one :D
06:51
haha. The throw more people at it approach
That reminds me: last day at the current job. Time to start something and abandon it half-finished... :D
So @Sevanteri can pick up the pieces
hmm it doesn't even show the more link in the embedded quote
@IljaEverilä here: gb.rlemon.ca
random vulgar commit messages. If I recall I think they are quotes from a movie.
use them wisely
I am believer in agile iterative methodology in software development
No big software ever got developed successfully with an upfront plan that was then executed.
Our commit messages are vulgar to begin with :|
06:58
are they
write out all the lyrics to the fresh prince of bel air in your last commit
Some of them are
the new logo, the image
loooool
Usually the ones that just mark the current commits of submodules
checkbox f*ck up fix lol
07:00
> nullf*ckers
#BUG-123 account table stuff (f*cks it up, but hey, massa says, I does)
this one is mine:
button sheisse
so expressive, after 2.5 years it is immediately obvious what happened in that commit
> SO MUCH COLORS V*TTU
We should stop
well you will :D
but then that log is not used for history
the submodule logs are
Haha, I though that "remove asdfasdf" was just venting frustration, but git show <commit> shows that it actually does remove "asdfasdf" from a template
07:11
> ezy here have fun learning
followed by code with dumb errors.
@IljaEverilä @Sevanteri lunch where
TBA, any good suggestions?
Frans & Camille, pan burgers
burger buffet:? :D
Dear lord no
neither?
07:19
That 1st one seems ok
lol Valkee has Phở
wonder how bad it is :D
Cabbage
In today's episode of "The Blind Leading The Blind" I give you stackoverflow.com/questions/40036921/…
@PM2Ring ^
but thanks anw since martijn didn't care to paste a link
anyway I am voting cv on that
because however it gets resolved it will be unlikely to help (very much) future readers.
rbrb for me. Cheers
@AnttiHaapala Good point, but I don't feel comfortable using that close reason on non-typo questions that haven't actually been resolved yet.
07:28
@PM2Ring :P
it takes 6 hours for it to be closed :D
my vote is ready :D
Cabbage!
07:59
Cbg
09:02
Interesting. I commented to a super short answer starting with “I suppose …” whether the author was just guessing or whether its an actual answer (hinting at the low quality of the answer). – Apparently, my comment was deleted.
09:12
… and I thought the time of “Here, use jQuery” answers is over… :/
@poke, I don't think there was a need for an attack like that. I always think that every answer worth take in consideration. — Ionut 4 mins ago
*sigh*
cbg
@poke link?:P
gotcha
Huh? You found it already? If not this was the answer.
or was that another one?:D
the jquery one was shit too
yeah..
And there's the downvote, and the attack continues. Oh, well... — Ionut 1 min ago
Great @Andras. Now I’m the bad one!
xD
@poke nyehehehe
Ionut, save your breath, @poke has been a gentleman and only noted that your answer is low-quality. I'm not bound by such courtesies. — Andras Deak 7 secs ago
#thuglife
09:25
.. ^^"
wow, what the hell, another comment of me disappeared?
@poke it has
guy flagged you, and a mod agreed
well, somebody flagged you
@Martijn You around?
I assume it was deemed "non constructive". Some mods don't think twice about comment flags.
answer deleted by answerer
their own comments are gone now too
Well, it was constructive in response to the non constructive whining…
@poke I agree:D
09:29
And I kind of find it harmful to remove comments trying to take out the fire but leaving those that are burning.
I'm not going to downvote the other crappy one, I don't know C#
@poke yup, but comment flags don't show context, I think
That’s fine. Wasn’t asking for downvotes anyway :P
:P
I need to do that for you, we wouldn't want you to lose some precious rep;D
But a comment starting with “Maybe you’re reading too much into my comment, it certainly wasn’t an ‘attack’” kind of begs to look at the context… :S
@poke well we have mods and we have mods
09:31
true
@AnttiHaapala anyone who doesn't see that as satire is missing all the point of that film
Wait, is that Starship Troopers? With the space bugs that suck out factual knowledge from human brains through straw-like appendages?
Late morning cabbage, all
@AndrasDeak into their brains, which their entire bodies are shaped like
09:43
oh yeah, forgot that detail:D
I don't see why anybody has an issue with that movie being militaristic.....
They're totally crazy if they think that
@RobertGrant well, ...
"The sci-fi film's self-aware satire went unrecognized by critics when it came out 16 years ago. Now, some are finally getting the joke."
I guess, "'muricans"?
even Roger Ebert...
> Roger Ebert, who had praised the “pointed social satire” of Verhoeven’s Robocop, found the film “one-dimensional,” a trivial nothing “pitched at 11-year-old science-fiction fans.”'
Though, I don't laugh at Starship Troopers any longer :D
@Antti I'm just reading that we're in for another informational poster campaign. This one says "We sent the message to Brussels: 98% NO to forced immigration"
god I hate these yammers
I agree with the last paragraph, and I also understand why it raises ire. The Mobile Infantry and bugs are window dressing for a political story. This story is about how democracy, with anyone allowed to vote, will fail, and how an orderly society run by soldiers would be great. Heinlein even has classes where they "prove" their society is better. Verhoeven and Neumeier instead saw a society run entirely by people who all went through government boot camp, they saw Nazi Germany and brainwashed Hitler Youth. BUT WE ALL WANTED TO SEE THE MI IN ARMORED SUITS ANYWAY! — Schwern Sep 30 '15 at 5:08
@Antti pic
and no, that is a recent shot, that's how our metro line 3 looks like
09:57
can you write the text so that I don't need to write it :p
3 mins ago, by Andras Deak
@Antti I'm just reading that we're in for another informational poster campaign. This one says "We sent the message to Brussels: 98% NO to forced immigration"
@AndrasDeak yes... :D
"Megüzentük Brüsszelnek: 98% NEM a kényszerbetelepítésre". Like this?
yep :D
so if someone comes with rebuttal :P
@AnttiHaapala big surprise given the zero entrance requirement for becoming a film critic
09:59
@AnttiHaapala I don't get it
Ebert was often quite right and agreeable :D
@AndrasDeak anw thanks :D
no worries:D
I am ODing on coffee
halp
@khajvah rather like UD - drink more
I had 3 double espressos and no food today
10:08
hmm...@Antti the government might have miscalculated by timing this media oppression attempt three weeks before the anniversary of '56
I expect some gatherings on the 23rd
@khajvah doesn't that give you stomach aches and/or nausea?
at least have some sloth snacks
@AndrasDeak yeap and a little shakiness
so....why?:P
@AndrasDeak ... :P
that would be best, go organize some demonstrations
if government tries to suppress ... :D
I don't organize:)
we'll have more than enough demonstrations, probably
guys, what's linux's "too many open files" error?
10:15
@khajvah too many open file descriptors in a process
I also prefer the longer version of Edmund Burke's saying, which goes "When good men do nothing, evil triumphs. Unless effort is involved, in which case, fair play."
the tricky bit will be to construct one that looks useful without alienating anybody
@khajvah file descriptor leak?
don't forget to fclose everything
weird
@RobertGrant I didn't say "do nothing", I said "don't organize"
It's been less than a week since the last demonstration I went to
Sorry, was just kidding mate
10:29
I just wanted to be clear:P
Need to re-think my backup policy sighs
what borked?:S
Oh... I've been doing some work recently... I dockered things for a test and staging environment, then just before releasing, did some tidying up and sutpidly deleted the staging container instead of the test
Thankfully I do have a backup, but it's a 72gb gzip file in Glacier...
:(
is it the time or the money?
So I've had to download that entire file, then extract it - only to discover I don't have enough space to extract it along side existing data...
10:32
I remember you guys saying that glacier charges when you recover?
so now I'm trying to tidy up some space
@JonClements bah:(
I'm sorry about that
So - got one very very beeped off client wondering where they job is and their client having a go at them... no one's in a very happy place :(
@khajvah In Unix-like OSes each process has a small file descriptor table maintained by the kernel. I guess the small size of the table is a bit of a relic of Ancient Times, but generally a process doesn't need to have a huge bunch of files open simultaneously, so if you get a "too many open files" error that probably means your program is going crazy. :)
10:37
rhubarb for now
jon@minvera ~ $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
728544
@PM2Ring ^^^ looks like a fairly high limit to hit :)
$ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
796956
OMG I'm better than Jon! \o/
we should hold a maximum-open-file-descriptor-off:D
@poke are you trying to find out why a comment was gone?
@AndrasDeak how can I live with myself now!? :(
The comment you replied to was self-deleted, your comment was flagged, I removed it as it was now without context.
10:40
@JonClements *gives 34206 file descriptors to Jon*
@JonClements I think that's the system-wide file table. The per-process limit is much smaller. I'm a bit hazy on the low-level details, but I vaguely remember doing stuff in C (probably on the Amiga) where individual processes were limited to 16 open files (or maybe it was 32). My guess is that on Linux the limit would be in the neighbourhood of 256 files.
comments are really ephemeral, we clean out comments all the time.
@AndrasDeak awww.... thanks for sharing :)
@MartijnPieters I believe poke's impression was that at one stage his comment was gone, while the other ones not. Which made it look weird from a moderating stand point.
@AndrasDeak perhaps I missed something then. Comment flags are plentiful and usually processed in large batches.
10:43
hi all
@MartijnPieters and poke might have missed the deletion of the rest:)
it doesn't really matter now that the answerer self-deleted
Am having a doubt about how raw string works in regular expression
re.match(r"\n","C:\some\nDay\n")

re.match("\n", "C:\some\nDay\n")
both expression results in None
@Mathan r"\n" contains two characters, a backslash and an n. While the pattern "C:\some\nDay\n" contains an end-of-line at the end, so it won't match
but a backslash and an n should be considered as raw string know?
i mean just as string
sorry, I don't understand that. But I also don't understand why you don't get a match in the second case, so I'll let others consider it:P
10:47
okay
@khajvah: This page has some relevant info: stackoverflow.com/questions/14042824/…
@Mathan don't you need .search instead of .match?
If i use .search <_sre.SRE_Match object; span=(7, 8), match='\n'> is the result for both expression
> If zero or more characters at the beginning of string match this regular expression, return a corresponding match object
@Mathan I think I know why
Can you explain to me?
10:51
r"\n" is two characters, a backslash and an n. But this is a valid 2-character regex that matches a newline character. And "\n" is a single character, a newline. It will match a newline as a character, not being interpreted as a regular expression.
that's my guess
but I have to leave now, good luck
so when i have to use r
okay thank you
@Mathan whenever you want to use literal backslashes conveniently in any string, not just for regex
@PM2Ring thanks. My web app has a leak when an error happens
r"\this\is\my\path" is the same as "\\this\\is\\my\\path", otherwise \t and others might be interpreted as control characters. So in a non-raw string you need to escape backslashes by using two backslashes.
Exactly... that's where i got this confusion
10:53
% cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
14852859
when i use this in regex
@Mathan that would error in Python 3.6!
@AnttiHaapala show-off
that's not my machine
@Mathan I'd probably use a raw string to avoid complications
10:54
ok, the server's max is 99k
mine only shows 1614785
then you know that a backslash stands for a backslash
but I even with the leak, I couldn't possibly reach that
something is going crazy
@khajvah that's not wht you're hitting, as I said before you're hitting the perprocess limit
@khajvah did you read PM's note about process-wise limits?
10:55
% python
Python 2.7.12 (default, Jul  1 2016, 15:12:24)
[GCC 5.4.0 20160609] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import resource
>>>
>>> print resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE)
(1024, 65536)
OK OK see y'all later
@AndrasDeak or mine...
sorry about python 2
6
was lazy.
@AnttiHaapala or yours:P
@AnttiHaapala never!!
@AndrasDeak oh missed that
@AnttiHaapala you should hold up to certain standards
10:56
@AnttiHaapala Antti using python 2
you mean __better__
As for the break command, it successfully broke your program, SyntaxError: 'break' outside loop. — Antti Haapala 18 secs ago
0
A: I need assistance with the "break" command

JRazorbreak using for circles, not any place. Use sys.exit

wat????!
DSM
DSM
11:14
That's probably "break is only used within loops, not at an arbitrary location", and as it happens I don't know the words for "loop" or "arbitrary" in Japanese so I might say "circle" and "any place". :-)
@DSM I was just wondering how someone who doesn't know the word "loop" can have 1000 score on stack overflow :D
@AnttiHaapala non-native speaker. 'circles' is 'loops'.
@MartijnPieters bad net connection again :? :D
@AnttiHaapala nah, I just didn't bother reading further ;-)
Quick-fire remarks without fact-checking, that's me.
maybe they just have better programming books in their native language.
back in time, there were good programming books translated into Finnish but even then when I was 10-12 I did know the word loop
in English
I wonder if there is a language where the word for "circle" is used for "loop"
11:29
@PM2Ring I'd say that missing call parens off is a simple typographical error, so I closed it on that basis
Yes, I though "circles" for "loops" was quite creative.
@holdenweb Yeah, I suppose so, and at a stretch the missing return can be considered to be a typo too. But where do you draw the line between simple syntax abuse and sheer cluelessness? :)
You can't always do that. Some people get it fairly quickly, otheres eventually stop programming, and htere's a vast spectrum of cluelessness between.
These guys claim the some people will just never be able to learn programming eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf (they give anecdotal supporting evidence, but the study itself I regard as too small to draw conclusions).
@MartijnPieters hehe as a mod you too should remember Hanlon's razor; here :D
WAT suddenly I stopped wanting to work for google
11:48
@AnttiHaapala why would you want to work for them?
in the first place
@khajvah for money?
do they actually pay well?
idk about that
24 hours ago, by tristan
i suspect that people in europe are fed a steady stream of bullshit about what it's like to be in america by people that have no idea what the fuck they're talking about
lol smiling at this
had to star it again,
isn't this universal :D
@AnttiHaapala I guess the interviewer just had an expected answer sheet and was a manager with limited knowledge
@khajvah exactly
that is the gravest mistake that an employing organization can do
11:56
@MartijnPieters The comments and the answer was self-deleted after my comment was removed. I did refresh the page a few times to verify that.
it is utterly inexcusable
damn Google interviews are easier than people make it look
I saw many people posting questions and most are easy
I should actually try to apply. If I secure an interview, I might be able to take an entry level job

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