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00:18
Yup, definitely seconding the idea of you hanging out with us, @idjaw.
00:35
Hey guys, quick question: Can you please tell me how the string formatting method using those special f-strings (f"string") is called so that I can study its docs?
I think it's just called f strings.
That's an awful keyword to enter in google... :-/
The other name is literal string interpolation.
Also, I just googled python f strings and all of the results were about the python feature.
Most of them are no official docs though.
Mainly performance questions or PEPs
The first result is the pep. That is official docs.
00:43
But thanks, now I know at least what to look for,
Yeah, no problem.
 
1 hour later…
DSM
DSM
01:51
Raymond Hettinger and Tim Peters answering your itertools question? How lucky can one guy get?
02:39
stackoverflow.com/a/39442092/1426065 Feeding a homework-asker. And he tried to insult me. I think. Ha!
03:28
@MorganThrapp I think that's Erlang's attitude to them
03:38
What, you don't think a linked list is the most efficient way to handle strings? I mean, each character only takes 16 bytes.
03:52
@MorganThrapp RobLang takes a different approach and preinitialises every string up to 1000 characters in length, to avoid paying that pesky initialisation penalty during runtime
 
1 hour later…
04:56
Cabbage :-)
 
2 hours later…
06:27
cbg
06:45
Cbg
07:02
grumpy morning cabbage
Your edited question has erroneous indentation. It will get reopened soon, but if you don't fix the indentation, it will probably get closed again. As for your question: why do you expect the solution to be y=0.5 x^2+2? You're solving the differential equation x'=x, the solution of which is x(t)=A*exp(t), as you found yourself. The code is working, but your expectations are wrong. — Andras Deak 13 secs ago
look at the original form of the question for additional source of grump
> I have this idea of what I want to do, but I'm too lazy to learn how to do that. I will just drop on SO and get my answer in no time.
-_-
they did put together a reasonable question, but it makes me wonder where they got that code from
if it wasn't for the indentation error, I'd have reopened his question
I don't regard the first version of question as reasonable at all. Not for SO.
@Slayther yeah, I meant post-closure-and-edit
With the edit, I would be fine with it, yeah, if it had indentation correct.
07:12
the original was Crappy McCrapface
Now it's just Crappy
:P
at least the close vote-on hold-edit-reopen cycle is working this time
What, did they fix something?
No, it's just that often OP makes a minor edit, it's still crap, and the post stays closed. Other times somebody polishes the poop, making an edit after putting the question on hold. The post enters the reopen queue, gets rejected, but then when OP edits it into shape later, it doesn't enter the reopen queue anymore.
07:17
cbg
@IljaEverilä
@AndrasDeak This is how I feel when I fix a question like that. youtu.be/yiJ9fy1qSFI?t=4m7s
Cbg
@Slayther yup, that's why you don't fix a question that
Yeah because poop is still, well, poop.
cbg
07:19
Cbg
o/ folks
07:52
Cabbage!
Morning all.
08:04
So PyCON UK accepted my poster proposal.
Only, they forgot to actuall tell me.
Until this weekend.
Like I have time to plan the trip now.
facepalm :( That sucks.
@Martijn keeps you on your toes I guess :)
@MartijnPieters why do you complain, just send the poster :d
@JonClements it's ridiculously late. I don't know if my colleague can come even.
@AnttiHaapala great lead time on having one printed, eh?
yeah the pycon uk is a bit mismanaged
08:11
Good thing I already have one ready..
send them a pdf :D
anw never seen posters in Finland in these cons :D
so small that everyone gets to speak 2 hours about nothing at all
also a greater quesiton is: why wouldn't you go even if your poster wasn't accepted
ah need to register to pycon finland
55 € is a steal actually :P
the conf contains a dinner and lunch and coffees
almost 55 € value alreadyt
Was really hopeful about getting to Pycon this year, but just totally broke at the moment. :( bah. Next time...
but only 1 day of talks :(
hmm
I think I am going to do my algometer
to pycon finland
that'd be kewl
show it in lightning talks
08:28
Monday morning: being made to work in Sharepoint. (。•́︿•̀。)
Isn't that human rights violations?
I'd say so. All of them.
@Withnail *highfive*
I dunno how we got from the 'we should stop emailing documents back and forward - maybe Dropbox or Google Drive?' conversation to 'your colleague has shared {{project_name}} with you via Sharepoint'.
Maybe they don't like hosting internal documents in the cloud
(Unless you use Office 365, in which case that doesn't apply)
08:35
Clippy: "It looks like you're trying to shoot yourself in the face. Would you like me to : a) Pull the trigger for you? b) Leave you to die in peace? "
Yeah, it's all cloud.
I think in reality, pulling the trigger or picking either of Clippy's options would also just pop up that same Clippy with the same options
To be perfectly honest, SharePoint is awesome at collaborating with Office documents.
I think I was particularly irked at having to register with MS again.
I dunno, the OneDrive for Business thing is rubbish because it's Sharepoint in the backend instead of the actual OneDrive tech
OneDrive for Business is to OneDrive, as Skype for Business is to Skype…
They only share the name, but it’s actually a completely different product :/
08:52
I remember being sent on a Sharepoint Administration course in 2005 - that was a fun couple of days sighs
@poke yeah but Lync is awesome
It has its positive moments…
@RobertGrant Really? :-/
Its annoying
Multi-tab chat is not there :-(
It is on mine
But way more importantly: a customer can dial my phone number, which comes through as a skype call, and I can connect others through phone numbers or as Skype contacts and it's seamless
We also have conference phones in the office that we can invite as Skype contacts, and then that phone is connected to the call
Stuff like that is great. A mate's company has just switched to Google for all its IT, and they can't currently talk to customers by phone
@AndrasDeak noot good
2 iraqi suspected of robbery and murder of a native here now
idiots
09:13
@RobertGrant We also use Lync. I agree that the calls part of it is awesome, but we need persistent chat here.
And Lync (our Lync at least) doesn't do that.
And yeah doing seamless conf calls with headsets really works well.
@Ffisegydd You can use Lync chat rooms for that
I refuse to Lync. I dislike the potential for management tracking.
I communicate via antenna which I push through my tinfoil hat on a "need-to-speak" basis.
6
@poke Yeah I thought it was potentially possible, but ours doesn't have it, which is why I said "(our Lync at least)" :(
We're getting Hipchat soon so eh.
Lync chat rooms kind of suck anyway..
@Ffisegydd lync = teh shit
09:19
they work, but are tedious. We only use them theoretically.. we have one, and we sometimes to post some information to share, but they are not really useable. You have to join the room every time manually. You do get notifications, but only if you switch to the chat rooms tab in lync
doesn't work in linux, period
I'd prefer actual video conferencing solutiosn
Eww to video conf.
Fizzy - is there a name for what this questioner wants to do? It's kind of a non-complete clustering, but I can't think what it might be called. It has some anologue with fuzzy clustering but with the potential to be in zero groups.
no, not for video conf
@AnttiHaapala That's my excuse for not allowing ITMS to impose it on me.
09:21
but it is much nicer to be in a working room where you can see the other face at a distance and work on full screen.
See the "novelty detection" plot
Got link from:
1
Q: Find the identity of outliers in clustering

Nilani AlgiriyageI'm a newbie to machine learning and these days experimenting with Singular Value Decomposition(SVD). Based on the x and y values I have drawn following digram using matplotlib. I'm in the process of detecting abnormal activities of web users. In this diagram there are few points like outliers. ...

You are a learned fellow indeed!
I don't think it has a particular name, just "outlier detection" I suppose.
Not sure how well it works for multi-class, as that example seems to use OneClassSVM. Leave that as an exercise to the reader :P
They were the kind of words I could not bring to mind. I was fairly sure there must be standard ways to do it and didn't want to advise a "roll your own solution" because I couldn't find it.
I'm sure there are applications to multi-class. People seem to like One Class SVM as an exemplar. I have marked many scripts beginning class OCSVM...
I suppose once you've classified, you could run through each group and identify the "learned frontier" for each for then further classification actions.
09:25
@Ffisegydd yeah the admins turn off persistent chat as a config option - ours was on and they turned it off here as well
@poke yeah we don't use the chat rooms because I don't have admin rights to create one, which is annoying
No persistent records of their IT support internal chats then ;)
Also I can't push uparrow and edit, which is also annoying
@RobertGrant Yeah, had to ask our IT to create a room for my team
Surprisingly that was one of my better experiences with our IT xD
slack's much better for chats anw.
works everywhere, has API
Is in the cloud though
09:32
yeah
well, use irc
host own server
works everywhere
no persistence
Watch out DSM, Unutbu, I answered a question.
@MartijnPieters reckon its better with your new edit. I think they're asking about determinism rather than stability
09:47
@JRichardSnape yeah, there is a small hint in one sentence in the question that my quick reading didn't reveal the first time through.
As you said though, underspecified!
Good job anwerers on SO do probabilistic matching.
user6568562
Cbg
Ooh, I've been added to the contributor list on NLTK. Proud face.
Rather luckily, TBH, someone just took one of my SO answers and put it into a PR.
@IljaEverilä wrong dupe actually
check_output does not accept stdout as an argument, at all?
True, missed that
09:58
Good spot -I misread STDIN for STDOUT in the dup :P
>>> import subprocess
>>> subprocess.check_output('echo foo', stdout=open('/dev/null'))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/subprocess.py", line 618, in check_output
    raise ValueError('stdout argument not allowed, it will be overridden.')
ValueError: stdout argument not allowed, it will be overridden.
You supress it in the original .call(), right? There must be dups for that
@JRichardSnape in 3.5 there is run which would be spot on.
but... 2.7 only :d
2.7 is what they say. Maybe there is a reason. Maybe not.
why use an obsolete version of Python?!
"because manipulating ASCII-only text in it is faste... oh wait"
10:02
Hey - don't shoot the messenger.
@JRichardSnape wat, I wasn't shooting at you unless you're flying above me...
:)
Over sensitive Monday morning - more coffee required.
I wasn't even using the dreaded "you" passive
:D:D:D
lol
oh wait
10:07
Should one care about the difference between "one" and "you" when talking about the absent other? Discuss.
:D
@JRichardSnape should
Sounds like a nice question for a sociology essay.
in Finnish we have a completely different verb form for passive, it is the 7th person form really...
7th person?
10:08
OR maybe i don't want to know. I have work to do...
No you don't.
You have a python conference to sign up for.
Then you have to make up a story for your wife on why you'll be away all weekend.
(1p, 2p, 3p) × (singular, plural) + passive
and then... nowadays people speak using passive "you" in Finnish... that's awful
one ought to correct such sloppiness at any opportunity.
can't correct TV :/
oh...
Request for Off-Site Resource Machine learning continuous data classification algorithm - Mateusz‎ - 2016-09-12 10:01:48Z
@JRichardSnape more like a sociology doctorate
10:22
:D The perennial paper.
rolls eyes
Withnail crying in the - OH HAI.
in Room for IntrepidBrit and Ffisegydd, 6 secs ago, by Ffisegydd
Everyone else is boring, with their families and their responsibilities.
FYI: Yes Offence.
10:36
I suppose I should de-lurk then, cbg("y\'all")
Why is uploading images on a webapp so difficult?
10:54
I'm trying to work out what class writer thought stackoverflow.com/questions/39448622/while-loop-in-python3 was a good idea
11:05
If not for the n += 1, that'd be a neat answer
user6568562
Only OP should fix indentation ?
11:43
morning everyone, from me new job
8
Congrats
user6568562
Congrats [ :
woo!
Nice one :)
@corvid Congrats! They already allow you to chat? Nice.
6
11:56
@corvid congrats!
congrats @corvid
Congrats, @corvid
12:20
congratulations:)
also, cabbage
@AnttiHaapala :/
hooray for idiots making the lives of everybody else as hard as possible
user6568562
Yo Andras [ :
If someone else adds a tag to a question that I answer, would the tag be aded to my tag count?
yes
user559633
12:35
@corvid nice, can you share where you ended up?
user559633
“How many of you want to start a company?” David Tisch asked. All hundred hands went up. That’s why we were there, crowded into a Wharton classroom to seek startup advice from an industry luminary.

“Keep your hand up if you are technical.” Five hands remained. Maybe six.

“Keep your hand up if you are looking for co-founders.” The only remaining hand belonged to a CS freshman in the corner.
12:50
NerdCop script is getting along, I see
@corvid well done :) anywhere we know?
@tristan amazing
Such a good sequence of questions
Cabbage
@RobertGrant Amazing but not surprising. I pity the poor innocent freshman.
13:05
A comment ten lines into this three hundred line file: //no need to edit beyond here. Someone is confident in their ability to write bug-free code whose underlying business logic will never change ever.
cabbage
Judging by corvid’s lack of responses, I am assuming that they found out about chat…
@corvid Congrats
@PM2Ring I think (s)he could name his/her price, pretty much :)
Haha, They allow us to use chat in office
13:07
@Kevin That’s often done for configuration in single-script parts, telling the end user not to look “down there”
@poke haha:D
Granted it's in javascript so the end user could theoretically read that comment, but I don't think it's meant for them
Today I am modifying UploadWidgets.aspx to add an additional step to check that the user has the permissions to upload the type of widget that they're uploading. There are three different ways to upload widgets and I am hoping with all of my heart that the logic is abstracted enough that I get to write the verification code once and not three times.
@Kevin worst case you can call the same method from 3 places
Probably the "right" thing to do is, if the code isn't abstracted enough, abstract it until it is.
Buuuut that would take longer, so
@Kevin just don't forget to update .widgets and .widget_list
13:11
Let's see... The code is 1500 lines long. Not encouraging.
user559633
@AndrasDeak heh, actually getting better at focusing again lately.
user559633
@RobertGrant That's actually the upshot of the article (techcrunch.com/2012/04/15/…)
user559633
A comment ten lines into my codebase is the line : # i'm truly sorry if you thought i knew what i was doing
There's about 100 instances of if(useX){x.foo.blah();}else{y.foo.blah();} scattered throughout. I guess it didn't occur to them that they could have done z = useX? x : y on line 1 and done z.foo.blah() everywhere else
Granted x and y are different types so it's not quite as trivial as my example...
user559633
13:18
/me quietly removes uses of if_defined() throughout codebase
How weird. My answer from early last month that got a crazy number of upvotes just lost its accept, but the OP hasn't (yet) accepted another answer. stackoverflow.com/questions/38742938/…
Ah. He just accepted his self-answer. I guess he didn't really understand the maths of my answer after all. Oh well.
user559633
nevermind, more that he's taking a part of PM 2 Ring's good answer and breaking it down to smaller chunks
keeps quiet to not sound stupid because he agrees
@tristan Which kind of “umm” is this?
user559633
@poke the vague one, sorry
13:29
"3 divides x and 5 divides x implies that 15 divides x" callously assumes that the reader uses a decimal counting system
In any base where 3*5 != 15, it's clearly not necessarily true
user559633
planned on copying more of is "well if x then y then z then a then b" that the self-answer used instead of just trying to understand the two sentences that PM2Ring opened with and explained it tersely and cleanly
Hmm, as I suspected, the two objects with completely identical interfaces have no parent types in common except for Object. This displeases me.
user559633
If a dish contains meat, vegans won't like it.
vs.
Well if a dish contains beef and chicken or chicken and lamb or lamb and beef or lamb beef and chicken
morning cabbage
user559633
cbg
13:32
cbg
@Kevin meh
I guess I could make an XOrPerhapsY class that has the same interface as both x and y, and delegates responsibility to whichever one is appropriate
@Kevin objects of your own (codebase's) creation?
user559633
@WayneWerner I assume the codebase he's in, but no the one he wants to claim ownership over
13:33
@tristan very glad to hear that:)
@WayneWerner Built-in dot net objects. Session and ViewState, to be exact.
You know @Morgan's famous when he becomes a tag ;) ...
I hope this also means that irl crap is getting less crappy...
Why the page is using both, I can't say.
Oh. Well, .NET then. Do they not adhere to an ISomethingThatDoesntSuck?
I'd be surprised if there's no interface - .NET is usually good about that sort of thing
user559633
13:34
@AndrasDeak Oh cheers :) IRL stuff is stable and okay now, but my attention span is really finicky, so even without other things going on, the planets typically need to align
I don't think so. I'm looking at their respective documentation pages and I don't see anything obvious that indicates what interface they implement
Oh wait, there it is. "Implements ICollection, IEnumerable"
Ok, great. Saves me a class definition.
user559633
Is there an IWatch?
@tristan then I'll sacrifice a goat so that your attention span stays well;)
@BhargavRao Aw man, I'm just middleware?
@tristan Personally I'm a fan of this method:
13:37
@MorganThrapp Thank god, You aren't "under"ware :D
                                  /   \
 _                        )      ((   ))     (
(@)                      /|\      ))_((     /|\
|-|                     / | \    (/\|/\)   / | \                      (@)
| | -------------------/--|-voV---\`|'/--Vov-|--\---------------------|-|
|-|                         '^`   (o o)  '^`                          | |
| |                               `\Y/'                               |-|
|-|                          HERE BE DRAGONS                          | |
@BhargavRao is that what happens when you're eating under there?
user559633
^ yeah kind of, but i typically don't mean it as humor
user559633
# to the newbie: please don't ask me to explain this method
# to the senior dev: please don't quit
neither did I, where I used it... then again it wasn't my code, just code that I discovered was doing the wrong things. The very very wrong things. All the wrong things in horrible frangible ways that were prone to break everything you knew about how the code maybe should have operated, because there was XML in XML inside beans and things that meant returning a thing that you thought would work, wouldn't, because reasons.
C is a wonderful language <3
int main(void) {
    int i = 1;
    <%42/(i-=-!-!-!-(15,742,013L<:"HE"L"LO WORLD??!":>)-!!i)&&i++?i++??!??!i++:+i++-sizeof(i++);%>
    printf("Your C skill is level %d\n", i);
}
13:45
I hope the answer is 1
@AndrasDeak out of 5?
I'd have liked 42, but I'll settle for 5
I am indeed surprised at the obscurity of that code, though. Only worked it out through curiosity at what <% could be that would make that code compilable...

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