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17:01
I don't think that Learning Python by itself would land me a job...would it?
Plus...in the field of Web. Dev.....This is seems a non-ending list of technologies developped there?
For the time being I'm doing Flask...
Learned some basics of JS..CSS...HTML...
@IronFist listen, you're not getting the answers you want because there are no answers. We don't know your circumstances, abilities, or desires, and finding them out over chat isn't going to work well.
@davidism...I understand that...
The only way you'll know if you can get a job is to apply and interview. Don't do it in a vacuum, talk with potential employers to find out what's expected during the interview if you're unsure.
@IronFist Learning how to learn is far more effective than learning a technology
@WayneWerner..Exactly...that's what I feel I'm missing
17:04
if you don't know how to learn then you'll be pretty rubbish. Most of software development is actually learning about the problem domain that you're supporting so that you can develop excellent solutions for their problems
Unless you just want to be a code monkey
To add to what Wayne just said, we have hired developers with zero Python experience who are now great Python developers because they have proven their ability to solve problems and willingness to learn
I'm a fast learner...but the problem is I don't grasp the concept to a deeper understanding...which causes me lot of hard times when trying to use what I learned
Which is why, to some degree, you have senior coworkers.
@idjaw ... I see
What's with all the ellipses?
17:07
Periods are free, aren't they?
Stream of consciousness :P
@davidism .. It's the same here in my working field...I've started with Supervisors, now I'm becoming a supervisor...
:P
So what are you confused about then?
If you just want to be a code monkey, learn Java/C# and find some crappy enterprise shop, work 9-5 and try to have a life outside of work
@KevinMGranger They cost 1-byte each. Probably.
@davidism Unless it's an actual ellipsis … in which case it's just one byte again
@WayneWerner Also, my brain cells. I have clients who seemingly write emails by holding down the period key until they think of something else to say. It's, uh, fun to read.
17:14
@MorganThrapp Oh man, I worked with a guy...
Every chat message...
or line in an email...
ended with a dot-dot-dot ...
It was the best ...
My mom does that in her texts.
Nothing like getting the text "What are you doing today...".
R...e...a...l...l...y...?
I never knew if he was done with his thought ...
Nice little panic attack.
I interpret "..." at the end of a sentence as sarcasm.
sure ....
or annoyance
hey Morgan .....
17:16
Gah, it hurts.
just kidding. <3 ..... (or am I)
len('\u2026'.encode('utf8')) # 3
So many …
I interpret "..." as an overly dramatic pause. "I like black coffee... [because it reminds me of my soul, which is also black]"
you gain no space by using the unicode character over the ascii
Jim
Jim
17:16
Is anybody aware of any questions that explain why 'a' + ' ' is 'a ' is False while 'a' + 'a' is 'aa' is True? I've been trying to figure it out, think it happens in the peephole optimizer but just can't detect it.
Both on Py2 and Py3, False for punctuation, True for lowercase/uppercase characters.
String caching is a mystery to me.
>>> '…'.encode()
b'\xe2\x80\xa6'
>>> chr(46)+chr(46)+chr(46)
'...'
It's likely an implementation detail; you shouldn't depend on it behaving consistently in all cases. What are you trying to do?
@Jim Magic, naturally
17:18
@Jim Search "about the changing id Martijn Pieters", First or second link would help you :-)
Jim
Jim
I'm not trying to depend on it, just trying to understand the quirk, really :-)
@Jim does 'a' + 'b' is 'ab' work?
>>> str((lambda x=[]: (x.append(x), x)[1])())[2:-2]
'...'
Jim
Jim
@davidism yup
@Jim I know that Python does intern short strings. Maybe ' ' isn't considered a short string
@davidism does for me on python3
17:20
In [7]: x = 'a'
In [8]: y = 'b'
In [9]: z = 'ab'
In [10]: x + y is z
Out[10]: False
Further interesting:
>>> ' ' + ' ' is '  '
False
>>> ' ' is ' '
True
15
Q: Why does a space effect the identity comparison of equal strings?

midkinI've noticed that adding a space to identical strings makes them compare unequal using is, while the non-space versions compare equal. a = 'abc' b = 'abc' a is b #outputs: True a = 'abc abc' b = 'abc abc' a is b #outputs: False I have read this question about comparing strings with == and is....

It's likely a quirk of how what is being exec'd when in the REPL.
Jim
Jim
@BhargavRao lovely
> The criteria for caching strings is if the string only has letters, underscores and numbers in the string so in your case the space does not meet the criteria.
17:21
>>> 'a' + 'b' is 'ab'
True
>>> x = 'a'
>>> y = 'b'
>>> z = 'ab'
>>> x + y is z
False
@BhargavRao Excellent find
@Jim Read that answer, and also the dupe there. They are really really good answers.
Oh right, I knew I had read that.
@WayneWerner Yup, I remember that post bcoz of the backstory. :D
If you want some more food for thought, read the comments there.
all kinds of magic!
so much fun
17:25
I wonder how they came up with the criteria of "letters, underscores and numbers". Why include numbers? Why not include punctuation?
Is it just because they want some partial symmetry with identifiers?
Hi :)
hey paul!
@Kevin Looks like it
@MorganThrapp omg I just noticed your post. That episode was hilarious!
@idjaw Hahaha, that's some serious scroll back. Yeah, I love R&M. Cannot wait for season 3.
17:28
Seems you guys have been busy with deciphering my ellipsis ... :P
Anyone experienced with anaconda and spyder?
Whoohoo, 26 times faster than the accepted solution. Which was accepted because it was 'shorter'..
@PM2Ring Not a Nana?
17:30
@MorganThrapp :O no. thanks
user3838356
I got some minimal experience with anaconda
stackoverflow.com/q/38619445 mcve, I'm witholding my vote in case it turns out to be the dupe I mentioned
Can I run those packs of python in a "sandbox" (in windows)? separate of my main python libraries? (As to not share packages etc). In a few weeks I have an examn at my uni at which i have to program in spyder (py 2.7) preinstalled (without internet etc)...
user3838356
But then I am not a programmer
user3838356
So I might not be able to help
Need to get some exercise with those ides.
user3838356
I think anaconda libraries are seperate of vanilla python libs
So I learn to resist the urge "let's google this library", and learn what's in and what's not in python XY.
@paul23 I think what you're looking for is virtualenv
venv in python3
(not strictly the same thing, but similar enough)
user3838356
Or he could just install python twice, into distinct directiories, I think
user3838356
17:34
Different versions tho
DSM
DSM
Conda supports separate environments. It's one step higher than just a virtualenv, because you can specify Python version as well.
@Ezze I did that once on windows, and I've yet to salvage the mess that the PATH variable became on my old laptop.
user3838356
Well I have 3 instances of python on my machine currently
@WayneWerner Thanks for the idea, it works on windows too I think?
user3838356
Yep, I mess around PATH a lot tho
user3838356
17:37
But then again, I reinstall every 6 months, so not a huge problem for me
@paul23 Yup. virtualenv just copies/links a bunch of files from the python directory and then you fiddle with the PATH
You can always go full VM with Vagrant. :)
Or partial VM with docker+containers
You could always just build a new computer each time.
You could always re-invent the computer each time, mining all the materials from scratch
17:51
"And the wheel," said the Captain, "What about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project."
"Ah," said the marketing girl, "Well, we're having a little difficulty there."
"Difficulty?" exclaimed Ford. "Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!"
The marketing girl soured him with a look.
"Alright, Mr. Wiseguy," she said, "if you're so clever, you tell us what colour it should be."
4
If you wish to bake a silicon wafer from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
Did the 'new computer each time' for a bit with RPis ;)
@JonClements They never even made it to the bike shed
18:14
@tristan so when are you in a position to deworm me? :p
I think my web project is literally crashing my wifi, I didn't even think that was possible
that's impressive
solar flares?
yeah! my internet is back
stupid lightning
Stupid lighting...well let's see how you will call it when it hits you
@JGreenwell photos or it never happened! :p
18:20
:D
@WayneWerner Found the problem: it would retry connection on five TCP sockets, even on failure, every 200 milliseconds
if it hits me I will probably call it "su...ish..lig...in"
Damn it
ellipsis again !
@corvid Well. That's exciting.
what's wrong with conic sections?
DSM
DSM
18:30
♫ the cornerstone of analytic geometry ♫
♫ describing objects on the coordinate plane ♫
♫ something poetic is written here ♫
♫ woof woof woof! ♫
my line's the best yet... so deep and meaningful...
?! Got an interview for a research analyst position at a local, larger, university :)
it was very poetic, Jon
@JGreenwell nice!
18:45
@JGreenwell sweet!
I'm actually pretty shocked as this was a pretty highly competitive position
Very nice
@JGreenwell tell them you've written some SO Docs content, that'll get their attention
think I'll stick to publications and other articles ;)
@RobertGrant Err... I get the impression he might want the job :p
18:50
Can't wait til they branch out into education and there's an SO Doctorates programme. Awarded to people who aren't confident enough to ask a question on SO.
(Okay I'm done)
currently I'm working on a course in mathematics for computer scientist and IT people. Did not realize the work involved in creating a course from near-scratch (thought it would be a lot but oi)
fun though, right?
oh, I enjoy it the way I enjoy research - pain when doing but the rush of accomplishment and joy of teaching people through it is well worth it
♫ let's break @Kevin's parser again ♫
recbg (late to the party, right?)
18:58
dou da dou da. Let's break Kevin's parser again, oh da dou da daaaay
actually, I've found I have to counsel other grad students who assume they will be bad academic candidates cause they "hate research" which actually means "I am unpracticed reading scholarly papers, written by Ph.Ds several years ahead of me at least, so its hard" and "reading research papers is not the part of academia that most find 'a joy'"
it's yammin' beautiful outside right now.
I certainly have the first problem (still have to read papers slowly and repeatedly)
@JGreenwell those are the academic equivalents of "omg it's so hard to get rep on SO today"
That's got to be the highest salary I've seen for a tech lead
19:00
Oh exciting. Having completed my datamunging and ML training script (thanks for the assistance, SOPython), I now get to turn it loose on my 700Mb CSV file.
cracks knuckles, puts computer in ice
700 Mb csv doesn't sound that bad:P
And they want the person to be willing to dabble in Javascript. How is that worth 150k?
yeah, but assume this has at least a couple of points of 'needing-optimisation'. ;)
actually i'm pretty sure this will will bork when there's gaps in the dates.
if you open them up, there's a gap in the dates
stackoverflow.com/q/38620923 opinion / too broad / Server Fault
19:07
groans
I always love when I see job offers which basically require 5 different focuses (web, data, database, system....and management just cause) for entry-level pay
it makes me chuckle
if anyone is interested (and hasn't seen it) there is an interesting ML using Python article from Kaggle
Yoink. Very interested.
Super quick, we need 2 more players for the next round of diplomacy, anyone interested? Turns are once a week, so it's a pretty minor time investment.
in SE Diplomacy on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jul 22 at 19:56, by Emrakul
@ProgramFOX @MorganThrapp @michaelpri @Doorknob Join SE III on WebDiplomacy with the password: QWOPTERPLOMACY!
19:23
:D
Rhubarb all, Got some work.
as if we didn't have enough politics problems here
rbrb @Bhargav:)
@AndrasDeak Heheh.
Rbrb, br.
Would GitHub make sense for deploying and tracking changes to a document? It's a rulebook for a board game.
19:26
if you're OK with public, sure
can someone else reject; Copied content: stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/…
see comment for link
I saw a job listing for "Archer Remote Support" where the requirement for the job was "10 years: Archer Remote Support"
OMG the narrator of the worms clan wars trailer seems sounds to be Jen from IT:D
@JGreenwell retracted now
sigh...yeah, he'll resubmit it with a minor change or name changes to undo my retraction I bet (people did that yesterday)
ruh roh - Does this mean I can be party to the drama now?
19:32
@JGreenwell I'd say "mod flag" but you can't do that on docs
then I'd say "invoke meta effect" but that's not nice:P
I'm documenting if I see it too much I'll make meta post -> considering yesterday I'm waiting a bit to see what rolls out of update and not pushing things too much
Compare this with this
yeah, I hit it a few places just added one of the links
deleted the example
Thanks J. hmm...what about the other topic example? It's an almost duplicate of this one:/
I added change (delete) for the other one
19:42
thx
that's 12 in a 24-hour period that I've had to flag/reject for being plagiarized
@Withnail ah, so they did add a 100 rep minimum for SOD review - good
100? I was on 435 earlier, I did just get a question answer accepted this afternoon though.
the just added it so a lot of people got the notice (cause they have over 100 rep) but it didn't actually change anything
wish they would also make it the threshold for contributing documentation (or at least 10) but, yeah, arguing that has been......ugly
cbg
what's up people
how can i decline this action? form may be is too large by width
http://i.imgur.com/FDMltUo.png
i resize it by the rigth botoom corner
19:54
I like when I get a chance to play with applied math and algorithms, its a rare thing for me
my wife is laughing at me using the chalkboard more than my computer right now
all and all, it's a good day :)
> Switch statements in Python? Nope!
That is a topic name? really, people?
Guys in SOCVR cleaned up the python 3 SOD tag (I helped a bit). Now we can't delete it, since -- SUCKER -- you can't delete the last topic of a tag. The corresponding meta post says "we'll roll out tag merges eventually, which will solve this problem". Delightful
@JGreenwell A topic name where?
0
score
4
4 examples
1 contributors
thanks, I was trying to think of a way to describe that
20:03
Alternatively "Python does not have switch statements", but that seemed like a statement rather than a topic.
better then mine, I was going to go with "Switch statements with Python" but that is actually a false statement
could see someone quoting it as an argument that Python had a switch (cause they failed to read the rest)......btw., do students assume professor do not check their references?
DSM
DSM
I'm happy that I'm just watching the crash and not participating.
ummm...new edit?
or conflicting one?
oh, conflicting
wait what?
I'll just reject it anyway
conflict, that person went through and changed all Python 3.0, 3.x to All versions
and a few other really minor changes
? I can only see the title edit...
20:07
Lol, shows how long I've managed to stay away from SO...
What are those blue bulbs I see at above linked page?
@paul23 Shitty Design Compensators
look in proposed changes that guy proposed a bunch of minor edits
@JGreenwell oh like that, I see
@paul23 little orbs of pure pain (click on one and you have the option to turn it off)
I'm glad suggestion throttling works fine
20:09
stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/13612 map returns a generator, list allows display
I get an error trying to reject that for some reason.
Is the guy sure that python 1.0 supported all these features?
as in "put All versions everywhere, morons!" (paraphrasing)
Am I the only one who thinks that "getattr" version - while working perfectly - is just "bad", and error prone?
@davidism yeah, that one and one of changes to classes is broken for some reason
@davidism "Transposing with Map: Using "None" as function argument (python 2.x only)"
does map generate a generator in py2 2?
20:11
ah, never mind
though I'm not sure why that topic needs a py2 restriction (but I don't know map)
I mean, why any random topic needs a py2 restriction
Would "abstracting the switch away by changing the (class) design" be a good solution?
@davidism but if you look at the comments...it's OP editing, and others are bashing him that the example is simply bad:D
What we really need is "introduced in version" rather than "select every version".
yup
assuming that features are here to stay (in python that should be fairly true)
OK I'm leaving this heap of dung
20:15
oi...Python's SOD is an oasis compared to some of the other languages
Apr 26 at 11:57, by Andras Deak
we have an informal saying that goes "shit is not a unit of measurement"
but it could be ;P
Hmm (how) could I get all function inside a class/namespace again? I know there was a table for functions that are loaded when you import something, but what is that table again?
dir(obj), vars(obj), locals(obj), obj.__dict__
20:33
2016 Top programming languages, top 3 = my top 3 (not necessarily in order)
stackoverflow.com/questions/38622544/… That dupe is arguable, but the whole question is "How do I file".
1, 3, 6 are my main languages....which is a neat pattern
3 and 6 are the only two I use, the other languages aren't even on there (for good reason).
damn, I want to find a B compiler :D
Just mirror a d compiler.
:-|
DSM
DSM
20:43
Heh.
:)
16
Q: Does anyone have a working B compiler?

AnthonyDoes anyone know where I could get a good B compiler? I have searched for a B compiler for some time now, but have been having some difficulty finding anything complete for a Windows or Linux system. Here is an example of B: main( ) { auto a, b, c, sum; a = 1; b = 2; c = 3; sum = a+b+c; putnu...

Speaking of words with the word broad in it, has anyone seen Broadchurch? + or -?
DSM
DSM
Season 1 or 2?
20:47
1 I guess...I haven't seen the show. I want to know if it is worth the investment
UK or US?
There is a US version?
I thought there was just one?
The real version
DSM
DSM
Season 1 was high-quality but disturbing. Depends on whether that's your thing, I guess.
There's a US version, Gracepoint.
Oh, did it have a different name? I knew it existed but haven't seen it.
David Tenant plays in both?
DSM
DSM
20:48
Yep. Weird listening to him talk with an American accent.
is the show anything like The Fall?
I concur with @DSM that UKS1 was very good. UKS2 I gave up on after a couple of episodes.
DSM
DSM
I also only watched the first few -- two, I think -- episodes of the second season. I don't know if there was a quality change or I just felt exhausted with the world.
he does a good one though - also concur that season 1 was good
and I've never seen season 2
alright...I'll add it to the list
20:51
cause there was only one season of Gracepoint ;)
I think part of the problem was that S1 was a whole, and clearly intended as such. I got the impression from what I saw of S2 that the writer didn't have anything else to say (except "thank you very much for this very large cheque").
I like the UK one better but part of that might be that seeing it first made the US version seem like a rehash rather then it being actually any problem with the show
that's good to know. I have no problem investing in just the first season knowing that it was meant to end there
I've known a few shows that never should have went on to another season
Wayward Pines is one
DSM
DSM
Just.. the show isn't a laugh riot.
Great first season...I gave up after just a couple of episodes in the second
never should have continued
20:53
-1
A: What are the implications of Python integers not being limited by 32 or 64 bit size?

Joran Beasleythe implications are that you must know and enforce your own integer widths when computing checksums you make it the size you want carry = (a & b)&255 a = (a ^ b)&255 b = (carry << 1)&255 would be one byte wide integers ...

maybe im misunderstanding the question ... but can one of you tell me why you think this answer is getting DV?
cause someone else misunderstood the question
DSM
DSM
I don't understand the Q. Or maybe I think I understand the Q but don't know exactly what an answer might be.. it's kind of asking for a list.
I feel like most shows I've seen went on at least 1 season too long.
Sometimes even more.
Guys....I think I found the answer to making sure we stay employed

a guideline on unmaintainable code!!!
alright ... thats what I thought ... thanks for the feedback :)
20:57
Community is one of the worst offenders, it went on 3 seasons too long.
I love community ... I would like to see 7 more seasons
Arrested Development should have stayed where it was too
^ agreed
I agree w/ Arrested Development
Would have liked more Firefly
20:59
Heh, yes, Whedon's got the opposite problem when it comes to series longevity.
DSM
DSM
Firefly's an interesting case. Two more seasons might have been great.. I don't know if six would have been.
What are you talking about? All 3 seasons of AD were great.
(although I seem to be nearly unique in having thought Dollhouse was great)
cbg again
@MorganThrapp I was referring to the Netflix season that was not great
DSM
DSM
21:00
I liked Dollhouse a lot too. That show needed three seasons.
I never gave that show a shot.
speaking of firefly
@idjaw What Netflix season? There was no Netflix season. That was just a terrible fever dream I had, right?
Today I was taken to military police station for walking down the street
DSM
DSM
(whispers to idjaw: I think that was Morgan's joke..)
21:00
have you guys see that show on scifi about space bounty hunters?
idjaw shakes his head in shame
that just started 2nd season?
DSM
DSM
Killjoys?
shame ding shame ding shame
21:01
that one
Orphan Black is starting to feel the same way, I loved the first 2 or 3 seasons.
@khajvah are you in Turkey?
Season 4 was rough.
killjoys is awesome imho
@khajvah That doesn't sound fun :-(
DSM
DSM
21:01
@JoranBeasley: yeah, I watch it. But it's Canadian.
@JoranBeasley No, Armenia. There are protests going on and the police is taking random people
I tried to argue about human rights and stuff but who cares
oh i see ... shitty... protests== good .... random arrests and police/military violence = bad
DSM
DSM
Tell them you're a Python programmer, and that you have immunity from all static typing problems. (Disclaimer: DO NOT DO THIS.)
they were dumb as a rock, when I was arguing with any of them, they were just shutting up after 5 minutes
Isaw an article on quora or something about python being loosly typed ... I almost had a heart attack but in the end moved on without explaining to them strict dynamic typing != loosely typed
21:04
Somewhat nervous congratulations on arguing with armed idiots there ...
People mix up strict / static all the time
woo...someone left their phone on their desk and it won't stop ringing...impromptu dance party ensued.
dem beats tho
@ZeroPiraeus weapons were the reason for argument, they were holding aks and had masks like we were some kind of serial killers
that sounds terrifying tbh ... I would have probably peed myself a little and then cower silently in a corner hoping none of them decide to make an example out of me
good on you for standing up though
not that scary. You could feel they were having a bad time too.
their eyes had big guilt in them
21:08
=/ I just read through what you were writing khajvah....glad things are OK for you now.
@khajvah That can be scary too though. Some years ago I found myself unable to comply with the orders of soldiers pointing guns at me, and the fact that they were obviously on edge didn't help.
thanks sir
@ZeroPiraeus oh that sounds worse.
I don't know what Armenian police are like. Bolivian soldiers are conscripted, not very well educated and somewhat persuadable if you can pull class/race rank, so got through it ok.
Unfortunate but true that being a white European helped out in that situation.
they get orders to do terrible stuff. Some very active protesters were getting beaten but they mostly don't want to touch people
ordinary police is worse, the military police don't generally want to do any harm to ordinary people
21:27
It does seem to be true in a lot of places that in a given difficult situation, military people a) handle it better and b) are less prone to doing bad things just because they can than civilian police. Not sure why.
I'm also sure that military people have much better trigger discipline.
Jim
Jim
21:50
@khajvah is there always a military police presence in protests? Here in Greece, were many protests generally happen, I've never seen/heard of any form of military police.
military people is a pretty broad term
glad to hear your okay @khajvah
@JGreenwell Do you have any professional experience re: protest / civil disorder?
yes, but military police forces are used in severely limited fashion in the US (when it comes to domestic issues) and, in general...like 90% of time, only National Guard is ever deployed for civilian matters. So as a Marine MP my involvements were more honor guard or political in nature
I tend to assume that Marines are more in the "carefully planned surgical op" line of business than crowd control, but that's entirely from movies ;-)
and to be honest only involve the "westboro baptist church" protesting military funerals
21:58
Oof, that's gotta be fun.

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